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Thread: U.S. NLRB Rules Northwestern College Football Players are Employees, and Can Unionize

  1. #21
    Heard Jay Bilas on the radio earlier make this point and I thought it was a really good one. If an acting major on scholarship got a role in a movie or a broadway play while still at school they can still get paid for their work without penalty or an English major on scholarship wrote a book they can sign a book deal with no one bating an eye but a "student athlete" can't make a dime on his or her name, talent, notoriety. This while everyone else involved gets rich.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden 2.0 View Post
    Heard Jay Bilas on the radio earlier make this point and I thought it was a really good one. If an acting major on scholarship got a role in a movie or a broadway play while still at school they can still get paid for their work without penalty or an English major on scholarship wrote a book they can sign a book deal with no one bating an eye but a "student athlete" can't make a dime on his or her name, talent, notoriety. This while everyone else involved gets rich.
    Yet you're well aware why those rules exist.

    Far too many schools won because their boosters got players "jobs" that paid them massive boatloads of cash for doing....nothing.

    In a competative environment, thats a competative advantage, and was viewed as bad pretty much all around.

    Again, I'll stress this, because I feel strongly about it:

    The problem is not school, or sports. The problem is School running a de facto Professional Billion Dollar Sports League, with completely different rules for athletes who, in the majority, are clearly not there for the education.

    The lure of that very same money (which for a select few huge schools does indeed subsidize other sports) has corrupted the entire system, and created a situation where schools, funded in the majority by taxpayers for education, and also running a de facto sports and entertainment business on the side, Las vegas style.

    The problem is college sports shouldn't be professional sports, it should be an add-on for learning and exercise for college students (students there to learn like all the other students), not a minor league for the Pro Football and Basketball leagues that those leagues are too cheap to pay for themselves.

    With all due respect, a good 50% of Div. I college Athletes have no chance of any kind fo getting into their schools for their brains, and the dropout and no-graduation rate proves that out.

    End College Pro Sports, return it to what it was intended to be, and let the NBA and NFL follow MLB's example, and create legitimate, professional, paid and insured leagues for these kids to grow and develop (and earn money and be protected from injury) in. Thats how Baseball does it, thats how European Soccer does it, thats how it should be done.

    And if a kid IS Smart enough to get an education and wants to play sports, he can do both, like any other Major in college, working and learning, together, but by seperate entities.
    Last edited by Warfish; 03-26-2014 at 08:13 PM.

  3. #23
    Anything that kills the NCAA is a good thing.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden 2.0 View Post
    Heard Jay Bilas on the radio earlier make this point and I thought it was a really good one. If an acting major on scholarship got a role in a movie or a broadway play while still at school they can still get paid for their work without penalty or an English major on scholarship wrote a book they can sign a book deal with no one bating an eye but a "student athlete" can't make a dime on his or her name, talent, notoriety. This while everyone else involved gets rich.
    But the actor or English major isn't getting paid by the school.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Title IX. Fact remains it would have to be overturned in order to pay college athletes otherwise Division I colleges would have to pay the female volleyball team the same $$ as the football players.
    This is not correct. Title XI applies to the funding of sports programs. If the athletes are employees then their pay would be governed by Title VII, the equal pay act and analogous state law. Employees do not have to be paid the same merely because they perform jobs for the same business.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nycuse View Post
    But the actor or English major isn't getting paid by the school.
    Neither are the "student athletes" are they? Other than the free education, room and board.

  7. #27
    If you don't count any illegal money, athletes at top programs more than earn their scholarships if they're forced to get a degree. Here's a typical week.

    1) Classes from about 8 - 12pm
    2) lunch at the field house and maybe some lifting
    3) Tape and prep for 2pm practice
    4) Practice until 5pm
    5) Dinner
    6) Study group 6pm
    7) 7pm Film study
    8) 9pm They can start their homework

    With the exception of a short break from January-March, this is full time. In March, spring football starts up.
    Also, when you travel, you usually leave on Thursday so you miss classes and have to have team provided tutors
    You work on the weekend since you play on Saturday and you often have to go in for film on Sunday.
    They also have to lift year round.

    If they're not there for just football and they're serious about their studies, they pull more hours "at work" than most students do. Do they get perks? Absolutely. Do they get a "free ride"...not at all.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CleatMarks View Post
    If you don't count any illegal money, athletes at top programs more than earn their scholarships if they're forced to get a degree. Here's a typical week.

    1) Classes from about 8 - 12pm
    2) lunch at the field house and maybe some lifting
    3) Tape and prep for 2pm practice
    4) Practice until 5pm
    5) Dinner
    6) Study group 6pm
    7) 7pm Film study
    8) 9pm They can start their homework

    With the exception of a short break from January-March, this is full time. In March, spring football starts up.
    Also, when you travel, you usually leave on Thursday so you miss classes and have to have team provided tutors
    You work on the weekend since you play on Saturday and you often have to go in for film on Sunday.
    They also have to lift year round.

    If they're not there for just football and they're serious about their studies, they pull more hours "at work" than most students do. Do they get perks? Absolutely. Do they get a "free ride"...not at all.
    When you say free ride, you mean a free education-scholdarship?

    I think this issue goes deeper than college sports. It's a jumble of issues in America manifested in college sports. Greediness of a business and the lack of importance put on an education. A lot of these athletes and their parents are more concerned with making the millions of dollars than obtaining a degree! I understand that the NCAA has kind of marketed itself that way as well.

    Now to your point about top programs, you're really only talking about 22-30 players really earning that money for their programs.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JetsFanatic View Post
    Title IX is unfair. Mens sports, in general, create greater revenue for the school then women's sports. Just another PC rule.
    And there's the problem...why should sports be generating revenue for a school?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycuse View Post
    The decision will be overturned. The NLRB is currently comprised of individuals recess appointed by Obama. The catch is that he recess appointed them when Congres wasn't in recess. When SCOTUS rules this action unconstitutional in a few months, all the decisions the NLRB made s currently constituted will be overturned.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLRB


    On July 30, 2013, the Senate confirmed all five of Obama's nominees for the NLRB: Kent Hirozawa, Harry Johnson III, Philip Miscimarra, Mark Gaston Pearce and Nancy Schiffer. Johnson and Miscimarra represent the Republican picks for the board.[101] The vote on Pearce was to confirm him for a second five-year term.[102

  11. #31
    i played college football and never once did i sit there and think "the college is profiting from my playing, i should get a cut" now granted i played at a low level school, but i think its just ridiculous to say you can pay college players. How do you divvy up the payments? What does a starter get compared to a special teamer? What do you pay a football player (a sport hat rakes in 100s of millions) as compared to a woman's field hockey player? Just because one plays football they're entitled to get paid, but another sports player isn't?

    I always felt that the students were getting paid... THEY GO TO SCHOOL FOR FREE! Guess what, i had to pay ALL of my college tuition, I didn't receive any free education for sports. The problem is these kids only look at $$$ that others are making and not them.. What they should be looking at is that their families are saving 100s of thousands of dollars for them to get degrees from colleges that without their athletic abilities they probably wouldn't have gotten into. Take advantage of going to a USC and getting a good degree instead of crying because the school raked in 200 mil last year.

  12. #32
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    I've always felt that they should be able to defer their scholarship, at least in-season, until they're done playing. I think that's the very least the schools/NCAA can do for these kids. As D1 athletes, they're not getting the school's typical education, they should have that opportunity in exchange for their service.

    To me, that's a no-brainer that should be instituted today, while the rest of this is getting sorted out.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by nycuse View Post
    The decision will be overturned. The NLRB is currently comprised of individuals recess appointed by Obama. The catch is that he recess appointed them when Congres wasn't in recess. When SCOTUS rules this action unconstitutional in a few months, all the decisions the NLRB made s currently constituted will be overturned.
    Yes, just like the ACA. It's far from clear what will happen with that decision. In any case, change is coming to the NCAA and its about time. I always thought that non-student adults going to college games was weird -- and with the TV ratings, it seems like lots of people obsess over schools they never went to. Why?

    Also, someone mentioned title IX as some kind of PC nonsense. Yeah, good luck overturning that -- basically every parent with girls might have a different opinion.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by fukushimajin View Post
    Yes, just like the ACA. It's far from clear what will happen with that decision. In any case, change is coming to the NCAA and its about time. I always thought that non-student adults going to college games was weird -- and with the TV ratings, it seems like lots of people obsess over schools they never went to. Why?

    Also, someone mentioned title IX as some kind of PC nonsense. Yeah, good luck overturning that -- basically every parent with girls might have a different opinion.
    It is PC nonsense, a good idea but lousy in practice. They fly girl teams all over the country to play in front of 500 kids. Tell me how that makes sense.
    Tell me about paying a coach 5 mill a year but a player can not have a stipend. Tell me why a guy gets a scholarship gets injured on the field, the scholarship is removed and he is responsible for the future medical bills from his injury. if you had to carry a light load and it takes you 5 years to graduate, why not pay for the 5 th year that you don't have elgibility for.

    Make it simple. You get a 6 year scholarship. all players on a team share a pool of money generated by jersey sales. Players with their names on the jersey get a higher percentage of those sales.
    perfectly fine, the women can't complain as the revenue generated by sales is smaller. As far as medical, any follow up procedures are covered for ten years.

    What colleges are doing is limiting your compensation to just tuition room and board while you are active on the team. They take on players that they know can not handle the workload and play football and then don't give them funds to finish their education.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfish View Post
    Students in Schools, Sports Athletes in Sports Leagues. /Done, problem solved.
    Then they can stop this dumb f*cking bullsh*t:


  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    Doesn't matter what anyone thinks of Title IX. Fact remains it would have to be overturned in order to pay college athletes otherwise Division I colleges would have to pay the female volleyball team the same $$ as the football players.
    Title IX already could use some tweaking.

    If players are getting paid there needs to be some correlation between the amount of pay and ticket sales. While fairness is nice it really doesn't factor into what a player's services are worth.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex-n-effect View Post
    This is not correct. Title XI applies to the funding of sports programs. If the athletes are employees then their pay would be governed by Title VII, the equal pay act and analogous state law. Employees do not have to be paid the same merely because they perform jobs for the same business.
    Thank you!!!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by 24 View Post
    In that case, start paying them.
    One of the reasons they won the right to unionize was because they are paid in the form of tuition and room and board. This is what qualified them as "employees" under the act. They also proved that while they are called "student-athletes", in every aspect the "athlete" part comes first; like they can't take a class that would conflict with the football practice schedule, or if they can no longer play football due to an injury they lose their scholarship. Most people are not aware of the fact that the college has no obligation to pay a players medical bills. So, if a player suffers a serious and/or permanent injury, the player is looking at trying to figure out how to pay for rehab and potentially has a lifetime of medical bills.

    I am by no means a pro-union guy, but in this instance the college players need a voice. Unions are needed when the balance of power in an industry is skewed against the "work-force". This is what happens when a large group of individuals legitimately feel they are being taken advantage of and have no say. This is exactly how it happened in professional sports and with the mine workers. This is not like the Wal-mart battle where a Union is trying to get in to increase it's power and dues paying members. The people at fault here are the NCAA and colleges for failing to create a mechanism to allow them to consider, in a meaningful way, the concerns of the people involved. The same people they so shamefully and disingenuously contend are the most important part of the system, the players, ... ahemm I mean athlete-students.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    Then they can stop this dumb f*cking bullsh*t:

    What a great insight into the problem with our priorities.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Not unpopular with me. The whole thing is out of whack. Sports are meant to be an extra activity.

    Those athletes good enough to want to try and make it a career...try our for the minor leagues.
    Very clear, concise and rational.

    ALRIGHT YOU ALIEN, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL FF2?!?!?!

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