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Thread: Rex is wrong - QB compeitions are BAD

  1. #1

    Rex is wrong - QB compeitions are BAD

    I understand Idzik's philosophy about competition and that Rex is basically just parroting it, but a good understanding of the QB position continues to elude him. For a QB, getting maximum reps, developing chemsitry with the offensive skill players, and having the team know you are the "guy" is almost as important as having the skill to play the position. Just as an exercise, let's go through a list of the other NFL teams likely to have a QB "competition" this summer and their season expectations:

    Jags - Henne and 1st-2nd round draft pick - terrible team, total rebuild, would be happy with 6 wins

    Vikings - Cassel, Ponder and 1st round draft pick - directionless franchise, AP in his prime but weak on both sides of the ball. Ponder was a bust and the Cassel re-signing just shows they are searching for anything. Easily the worst team in the division, going nowhere in 2014.

    Browns - Hoyer and 1st round pick - fired coach and GM, and are possibly the worst franchise in football. Any expectation of playoffs in 2014 would be laughable.

    Texans - 1st-3nd round pick and Yates/Keenum - will obviously start the 1st round pick if he is selected at #1, if not selecting QB at #1 and the competition includes Keenum, Yates, and a lower round pick, this team cannot seriously expect or believe a playoff spot will happen in 2014.

    I'm not including the Raiders or Bucs because they've named the vet acquisitions as starter, but needless to say those teams would be silly to think playoffs is possible in 2014 (especially the Raiders).


    Notice what is not on this list? Anything resembling a contender. Because no contender would hold a QB competition and take away valuable reps from the starter. That's just reality, whether the fanbase wants to accept it or not. And for the one example of Seattle a couple years ago, Wilson struggled a lot the first half of his rookie season, probably because a) he was a rookie and b) he had to waste time and lose reps in a worthless competition with scrub Matt Flynn. Those early season losses probably cost Seattle a shot at the Super Bowl.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    I understand Idzik's philosophy about competition and that Rex is basically just parroting it, but a good understanding of the QB position continues to elude him. For a QB, getting maximum reps, developing chemsitry with the offensive skill players, and having the team know you are the "guy" is almost as important as having the skill to play the position. Just as an exercise, let's go through a list of the other NFL teams likely to have a QB "competition" this summer and their season expectations:

    Jags - Henne and 1st-2nd round draft pick - terrible team, total rebuild, would be happy with 6 wins

    Vikings - Cassel, Ponder and 1st round draft pick - directionless franchise, AP in his prime but weak on both sides of the ball. Ponder was a bust and the Cassel re-signing just shows they are searching for anything. Easily the worst team in the division, going nowhere in 2014.

    Browns - Hoyer and 1st round pick - fired coach and GM, and are possibly the worst franchise in football. Any expectation of playoffs in 2014 would be laughable.

    Texans - 1st-3nd round pick and Yates/Keenum - will obviously start the 1st round pick if he is selected at #1, if not selecting QB at #1 and the competition includes Keenum, Yates, and a lower round pick, this team cannot seriously expect or believe a playoff spot will happen in 2014.

    I'm not including the Raiders or Bucs because they've named the vet acquisitions as starter, but needless to say those teams would be silly to think playoffs is possible in 2014 (especially the Raiders).


    Notice what is not on this list? Anything resembling a contender. Because no contender would hold a QB competition and take away valuable reps from the starter. That's just reality, whether the fanbase wants to accept it or not. And for the one example of Seattle a couple years ago, Wilson struggled a lot the first half of his rookie season, probably because a) he was a rookie and b) he had to waste time and lose reps in a worthless competition with scrub Matt Flynn. Those early season losses probably cost Seattle a shot at the Super Bowl.
    But doesn't that explain the whole positive side of a competition? Wilson would have never gotten a shot if they didn't have a QB competition between him and Flynn. Or you think they should've just handed all the 1st reps to a 3rd round pick over a guy they gave a huge contract to?

  3. #3
    > Jets provide no competition
    > Fans: "NOO! YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE COMPETITION! HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU!?!?"

    > Jets provide competition
    > Fans: "NOO! PROVIDING COMPETITION IS BAD! HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU!?!?"

  4. #4
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    Certainly arguments can be made for both sides.

    I remember Parcells being tough on his QB's.

    Personally I've always leaned towards treating that position more with kid gloves ... Am anxious to see how tough Geno is though mentally ... And hope he responds!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MDL_JET View Post
    But doesn't that explain the whole positive side of a competition? Wilson would have never gotten a shot if they didn't have a QB competition between him and Flynn. Or you think they should've just handed all the 1st reps to a 3rd round pick over a guy they gave a huge contract to?
    Wilson should have been identified as having a better skillset than Flynn from the outset and named the starter, although that was a tricky situation because Flynn had just been awarded a big contract. Flynn's contract necessitated a competition, the coaching staff seemed to immediately identify that Wilson was a superior player. Like I said, that was a very unique situation, but you wonder if Wilson had a slower start to his career because he had to split reps most of training camp (I believe Tarvaris Jackson was actually in the "competition" too, which was nothing short of foolishness).

  6. #6
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    if you have a legit qb, there is NO competition regardless of who the backup is. You don't have a legit qb, there is always a reason to try to bring in competition and hope someone will get the job done .

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    > Jets provide no competition
    > Fans: "NOO! YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE COMPETITION! HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU!?!?"

    > Jets provide competition
    > Fans: "NOO! PROVIDING COMPETITION IS BAD! HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU!?!?"
    Good teams just don't have QB competitions. Only the bad ones for the most part. There is a difference between having 39 year old Brunell as backup who simply cannot play and has no interest in starting/playing over say a Shaun Hill or Jason Campbell, who could play and possibly well if there is an injury, but do not enter camp competing for the starting job.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Play2Win View Post
    if you have a legit qb, there is NO competition regardless of who the backup is. You don't have a legit qb, there is always a reason to try to bring in competition and hope someone will get the job done .
    If management thinks we don't have legit QB, then why aren't we drafting one (at least to my knowledge)?

  9. #9
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    Only teams that don't have QBs have QB competitions. It is the one position where you don't want competition. Until you have the QB position settled you will essentially lack stability. For every Russell Wilson type story there have been hundreds of failures.

    I agree with your point about splitting reps.

    We just don't know who Geno is right now which is why they are "pushing" him or having a competition. I just don't like who they chose but I do think Geno needs a "push". Ideally you don't even want to have to "push" your QB but it is what it is.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 03-25-2014 at 11:23 AM.

  10. #10
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    I agree with the general point. Good teams do not have a QB competition every year, and the Jets will be conducting a full blown competition for the second year in a row.

    This year should have been the sink or swim year for Geno. Add a few pieces to the offense, hand him the keys, and let it be known that this is his opportunity to perform or the team is moving on without him. Instead the team will conduct a full blown competition involving a one year, controversial mercenary under full media spotlight and scrutiny, and this entire process could very well conclude next offseason with the team facing the same exact questions they face now.

    The team needs to find its long term solution at quarterback. Vick and a competition do nothing but muddy the waters and delay the answers the team desperately needs to continue its rebuild effectively.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGinley View Post
    > Jets provide no competition
    > Fans: "NOO! YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE COMPETITION! HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU!?!?"

    > Jets provide competition
    > Fans: "NOO! PROVIDING COMPETITION IS BAD! HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU!?!?"
    +1 Just like the one's that cry we traded all our draft picks for FA's then when we get draft picks they want to trade them for FA's..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlickBri481 View Post
    If management thinks we don't have legit QB, then why aren't we drafting one (at least to my knowledge)?
    I think anyone that thinks he will definitely turn into A legit qb or vice versa is not thinking straight . At this point you can only hope. No one knows what the Jets brass are thinking or what their plans are for the draft .

  13. #13
    I like the way you think. I mean it worked real well with Mark Sanchez here, did it not? No competition for like half a decade except for a 50 year old dude who couldn't even walk let alone throw (Brunell). And boom, Sanchez is now considered a hall of famer and the Jets are a dynasty.

    Those teams suck because they don't have a good QB, not because they have a competition at QB. You make no sense. You act like if the Vikings handed the starting job to whatever sucker they have at QB they'd suddenly become a contender. Ridiculous. You need competition, at every position, that's what makes players play harder and better. Vick beats out Geno, he gets the job, it's that simple.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DDNYjets View Post
    Only teams that don't have QBs have QB competitions. It is the one position where you don't want competition. Until you have the QB position settled you will essentially lack stability. For every Russell Wilson type story there have been hundreds of failures.

    I agree with your point about splitting reps.
    Exactly. Two years in a row we have a competition going into the season at the one position where you don't want one. And I'm starting to wonder whether Idzik is letting the Wilson thing cloud his judgment on the position. The Garrard move was a joke and now the Vick move and immediately calling it an open competition make me question his understanding of the QB position.

  15. #15
    Somehow I think that it is Geno Smith who is bad and not healthy competition.

  16. #16
    Kapernick and Smith
    Wilson and Flynn
    Sanchez and nobody

    That's all that has to be said. It's old school backwards thinking to go the route of no competition or no viable vet.

    As for what Rex says I wouldn't put stock in it as no more than a year or so ago he was still of the all in on a young Qb with no competition at all.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by parafly View Post
    I agree with the general point. Good teams do not have a QB competition every year, and the Jets will be conducting a full blown competition for the second year in a row.

    This year should have been the sink or swim year for Geno. Add a few pieces to the offense, hand him the keys, and let it be known that this is his opportunity to perform or the team is moving on without him. Instead the team will conduct a full blown competition involving a one year, controversial mercenary under full media spotlight and scrutiny, and this entire process could very well conclude next offseason with the team facing the same exact questions they face now.

    The team needs to find its long term solution at quarterback. Vick and a competition do nothing but muddy the waters and delay the answers the team desperately needs to continue its rebuild effectively.
    I just don't see how as a fan you can feel good about the 2014 season when the team has already basically announced we are having a full blown QB competition in training camp for the 2nd year in a row. Your post pretty much sums up how I feel.

  18. #18
    Competition is always good. This no competition BS starts in grade school. I see it in my daughter's school. No more tryouts for the the sports team. WTF. When I was growing up, if you weren't any good, you didn't make the team and if you did make it, and there were better players you didn't see the field. This would push you to get better so that you would play. I don't understand this whole everyone gets to play either.

    Complacency is the mother of mediocrity.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    I like the way you think. I mean it worked real well with Mark Sanchez here, did it not? No competition for like half a decade except for a 50 year old dude who couldn't even walk let alone throw (Brunell). And boom, Sanchez is now considered a hall of famer and the Jets are a dynasty.
    Mark Sanchez did not fail because of "no competition." He failed because he simply isn't that good.

    Besides, this isn't about the individual quarterback. It's about the team, and what it needs to do to stabilize the position for the long term. Adding Vick for one year is the opposite of stability.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
    Kapernick and Smith
    Wilson and Flynn
    Sanchez and nobody

    That's all that has to be said. It's old school backwards thinking to go the route of no competition or no viable vet.

    As for what Rex says I wouldn't put stock in it as no more than a year or so ago he was still of the all in on a young Qb with no competition at all.
    The reason the fans got annoyed with the Sanchez-no backup thing was a) Brunell was the worst backup in football, plainly over the hill, and had no interest in ever seeing the field; and b) Sanchez was consistently bad over multiple seasons. Geno has not yet been consistently bad over multiple seasons. Name him the starter now, give him the full reps in offseason and camp, and then bench him only if he continues to struggle during the year. Vick is a vet who knows the system, he doesn't need half the reps in training camp to come in for a relief role if needed.

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