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Thread: I Think Stephen Hill Is Done Here; And Kudos for Idzik

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Unlike you I think our FO/Coaching Staff is actually using their braincells. Hill has shown flashes. The facts remain that a) he was extremely raw coming out of college, we all knew he needed a few years until he starts getting "it" and that's where we are right now, so why are people surprised he's not there yet? B) We don't have a passing game (that includes not having an established QB / an established passing game / proven passing offense that can put up 350+ passing yards any given week a la NO/IND/DET etc.). And most importantly C) ever since he got here he's had knee issues (constant swelling) after a few games that ruined his season twice, and both times we had to IR him because he couldn't run routes properly or make use of his speed. It's no coincidence that in both years he started out hot and then by the 2nd half of the season he was a non factor and got IR'd.

    Let us establish a passing game, let him get healthy, let him get to 100% and then let him finish a full season and then you can at least start to judge him and see if he can play or not. But to judge him now when he's had all these knee issues and no passing game to really help him is pretty ridiculous. Hate all you want, the kid has crazy upside and deserves to have a full, healthy season with an established QB who can throw the ball well. If he drops balls, if he doesn't run routes properly all that, then you can say he can't do this or that.

    What exactly are talking about anyway? What do you think he CAN'T do? Don't give me the route running BS, I've covered that already. He was extremely raw and he's still learning the position, we knew that before we drafted him. And it's hard running routes on one leg. That's what's funny about this. All these haters they have nothing to say except yeah he sucks, let's cut him. But they can't tell you why he sucks. When they talk about drops it's easy to say he's had one drop last season and made some of the toughest catches in the NFL that year with guys knocking him out and he still held on. The kid is one of the toughest receivers we've had over the years. Instead of sticking up for him for the effort he's showing he's getting bashed by a bunch of people that want to see him fail. Kid has been nothing but classy. Takes big hits, doesn't talk trash, doesn't do anything negative, just does his job. Let him do his thing. I'm willing to give the kid a few more years at the very least and let him develop and give him some decent coaching, something he hasn't had the last couple years. Like he's making 12 mil. per year that we have to cut him. He makes nothing. And he's got more upside than 95% of the receivers in the NFL. Why the hell do people still want him gone? Mind boggling.


    Hit it out of the park!

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    Are...... you........ Bongo's......... cousin.......? well?,,,,,,,,,,,, are you?,,,,,,,
    LMAO
    all he needs is a few trades and FA signings

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Unlike you I think our FO/Coaching Staff is actually using their braincells. Hill has shown flashes. The facts remain that a) he was extremely raw coming out of college, we all knew he needed a few years until he starts getting "it" and that's where we are right now, so why are people surprised he's not there yet? B) We don't have a passing game (that includes not having an established QB / an established passing game / proven passing offense that can put up 350+ passing yards any given week a la NO/IND/DET etc.). And most importantly C) ever since he got here he's had knee issues (constant swelling) after a few games that ruined his season twice, and both times we had to IR him because he couldn't run routes properly or make use of his speed. It's no coincidence that in both years he started out hot and then by the 2nd half of the season he was a non factor and got IR'd.

    Let us establish a passing game, let him get healthy, let him get to 100% and then let him finish a full season and then you can at least start to judge him and see if he can play or not. But to judge him now when he's had all these knee issues and no passing game to really help him is pretty ridiculous. Hate all you want, the kid has crazy upside and deserves to have a full, healthy season with an established QB who can throw the ball well. If he drops balls, if he doesn't run routes properly all that, then you can say he can't do this or that.

    What exactly are talking about anyway? What do you think he CAN'T do? Don't give me the route running BS, I've covered that already. He was extremely raw and he's still learning the position, we knew that before we drafted him. And it's hard running routes on one leg. That's what's funny about this. All these haters they have nothing to say except yeah he sucks, let's cut him. But they can't tell you why he sucks. When they talk about drops it's easy to say he's had one drop last season and made some of the toughest catches in the NFL that year with guys knocking him out and he still held on. The kid is one of the toughest receivers we've had over the years. Instead of sticking up for him for the effort he's showing he's getting bashed by a bunch of people that want to see him fail. Kid has been nothing but classy. Takes big hits, doesn't talk trash, doesn't do anything negative, just does his job. Let him do his thing. I'm willing to give the kid a few more years at the very least and let him develop and give him some decent coaching, something he hasn't had the last couple years. Like he's making 12 mil. per year that we have to cut him. He makes nothing. And he's got more upside than 95% of the receivers in the NFL. Why the hell do people still want him gone? Mind boggling.
    What part of the traded up for 2nd Round Pick did you miss? If he was a fifth round pick things could be different. This is the NFL. 2nd round picks are scrutinized heavily and need to produce. I wish him well on the Jets. If he can't hack it here and to this point he has not, he has to be released.

    We want to win a SB here and soon.
    Last edited by Jetdawgg; 05-14-2014 at 12:26 AM.

  4. #104
    This is the year where Hill's inability to play special teams could catch up with him

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdawgg View Post
    What part of the traded up for 2nd Round Pick did you miss? If he was a fifth round pick things could be different. This is the NFL. 2nd round picks are scrutinized heavily and need to produce. I wish him well on the Jets. If he can't hack it here and to this point he has not, he has to be released.

    We want to win a SB here and soon.
    What does that have to do with anything, whether we traded up for him or not? You act like that automatically means he must be a stud from day one. It doesn't change a thing! He is still the same receiver we thought he was before we traded up for him! You act like he was a raw prospect but when we decided to trade up that's like us paying a price that would convert into making him a complete receiver, like we're gonna speed up that process by giving up draft picks. As if Goodell gave us the option "hey, you want Hill raw? That's a 3rd round pick. You want to speed up the process a little and have him complete already? Pay a 2nd". Just use some common sense man, that's all I'm asking. We traded up for him, he didn't ask for it. And it was not a mistake either because somebody else would have. Give him a fair shake before you're gonna count him out. It's like judging Geno just based on his last 16 games. These 2 have had about the same number of starts in the league. Do you cut Geno now because he didn't look great? He was a 2nd round pick! And unlike Stephen his play didn't get affected by an injury. No, we don't say we have to cut him. We try to give him a fair shake first. You improve the O-Line, you build a running game, you give him some weapons, and then you give him AT THE VERY LEAST least 1-2 full seasons (1 is still not enough actually). After that you can start judging him. Geno has a huge following despite his stats. Hill has 90% haters here it seems. Makes no sense.

    We all agree on this: If he can't get the job done and play at an NFL level then we will part ways at some point. But that's the furthest thing that has happened so far. He has shown he can dominate and be a very productive receiver in the NFL despite the fact that when he did play extremely well he still didn't figure out the position by that point, so he can actually be even more dominant once he learns the in's and out's. Let's see if we have a decent passing game next season. Let's see him healthy a full season. Let's just force feed him and see how he responds. Either he steps up and takes the next step (he's done that last year before he got hurt) or he doesn't get the job done. It seems people are scared that he might actually turn into a stud receiver for us. Maybe some people are more worried about being wrong instead of being happy about us having success. It's like they rather see him fail and have somebody else play somewhat ok in his absence rather than being proven wrong and have him turn out to be a productive receiver for us.

    And yes, we all want a ring. Soon. I'm not sure how this is falling on Hill. And I'm not sure how cutting him would correct this so called "mistake" (drafting him, according to you). It only makes things worse. Why not give him a fair shake and see if that pick turns out to be a great one instead. Nobody is gonna guarantee you or anyone else that Hill is gonna be the next CJ, but you can't say for sure that he will never become a good receiver. GM's don't quit on talented players with big upside, look at Aldon Smith or Josh Gordon. I understand they have proven already they can be great but they also make a ton of cash, so you're essentially paying them for not playing, and they have a huge history of messing up and being just plain stupid, they're damaging your franchise, they're counter productive, something Hill has not. Yet the teams hang on to them. Under the right circumstances actually I think Hill has a very good chance to develop into a great deep threat a la Mike Wallace. He's had some bad luck. A handful of big plays got lost last year and it wasn't on him (flags, bad throws), the injuries. Who knows where would be right now if not for all that? He sure would have had way better numbers, he wouldn't have disappeared in the 2nd half of the season either. And let's not act like CJ would put up 2000 yards here. So put that all in perspective. Even if Hill does his job and reaches his full potential, he's never gonna be a CJ type of receiver (even if he had all the skills) in THIS offense. CJ would never be the same receiver he is in Detroit in THIS offense. Lower your expectations. People hear the CJ comparisons with Hill and since he doesn't wow anybody yet they want him gone. He's on a different team. We need an established passing game, Hill needs to be fully recovered from the knee issues he's had and then we'll go from there. There is absolutely no upside to cutting him. It'll only make the people that don't like him feel a little better, gives them the feel of being confirmed that Hill is no good. And since the front office doesn't agree / listen it seems like they build up even more hate for the kid and want to see him fail even more. I don't get it. It doesn't help this team one bit to get rid of him. People are being selfish. They rather be right about something that doesn't help this team instead of being proven wrong on something that could potentially take this offense to the next level (that big deep threat who can score any time you throw it deep, imagine that guy next to a go to receiver like Decker and with Kerley in the slot, and an established running game + great defense). We need Hill to succeed which is why we're not gonna give up on him until he has clearly proven to everybody that he doesn't have the ability to play WR in the NFL.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetdawgg View Post
    What part of the traded up for 2nd Round Pick did you miss? If he was a fifth round pick things could be different. This is the NFL. 2nd round picks are scrutinized heavily and need to produce. I wish him well on the Jets. If he can't hack it here and to this point he has not, he has to be released.

    We want to win a SB here and soon.
    I agree, I was in Hills corner last year and I thought he could be salvaged. He has completely exhausted my faith, the fact he can't stay healthy, cant run routes or grasp an offense, and most importantly this body catching technique issue, it has me in a giving up on him mindset.

    I also think it's an indictment of Lal the fact he can't be coached to use his hands, I re-watched the Atlanta game last year and he can't even take a simple slant pass on a crossing pattern without taking it into his body, he will never get any YAC because he takes the reception to his body and waits to be hit.

    At the end of the day he is a combine champion with bad mechanics, he's an athlete not a football player, the fact he made it pro and went in the 2nd round with so little receptions in a run heavy offence at Georgia Tech is beyond me. All it proves he was drafted because of his measurables and the fact he's a physical specimen.

    He needs a quality WR coach to help him or his career is toast IMO. I also agree a 2nd round pick should not be allowed his full rookie contract to learn the basics of the position.

  7. #107
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    I Think Stephen Hill Is Done Here; And Kudos for Idzik

    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Nut View Post
    You already have a good WR replaced by two mid round picks who we haven't seen play a down?

    Why do people always underestimate this guy?
    Not really replacing him just trying to make sense of the picks. U need outside receivers you essentially drafted 2 slot types out of the 3 WR's picked.

    While I think Kerley is a solid player he was the best player of a bad group. He isn't a impact player by any stretch. I don't think the jets are overly crazy about him. Only 1 100 yard game in 3 yrs one of the worst PR in history. If last years draft would of went as they wanted he would of been replaced Austin. This year your first receiver picked is a 5'9 slot guy.

    I could be wrong just a observation. I Just think the jets eventually want more explosion from that position. And we both have seen the jets let way better receivers walk right out the door before..
    Last edited by Scoop24; 05-14-2014 at 05:53 AM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    Thread: I Think Stephen Hill Is Done Here; And Kudos for Idzik

    Truth hurts, everything I said is on the money, just ***** homers like you like to bad rep because people disagree with you. Anyway GFY you punk!
    Talk about pathetic human beings. Hands out negative rep because he's butthurt. If you don't agree, fine. If you don't like my post, fine. But don't just neg rep because you're pissed. Way to go, buddy!

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Talk about pathetic human beings. Hands out negative rep because he's butthurt. If you don't agree, fine. If you don't like my post, fine. But don't just neg rep because you're pissed. Way to go, buddy!
    Haha, you blatantly have a mental health issue or Alzheimer's, you neg rep me 1st for posting my opinion on SH that was a reply to another poster.

    I never called your post out, you started tapping the neg rep button because I disagree with your opinion.

    And I'm not your buddy, so have another click and put me on ignore.

  10. #110
    Decker, Kerley, Saunders, Shaq, Nelson IMO. Its on Hill to earn the 6th spot. Not gonna lose sleep if hes cut though. He hasnt show the ability to stay on the field. It gets to a point where you need to label a guy as injury prone instead of assuming hel be healthy next year and using it as an excuse for his lack of production.

  11. #111
    I'd love to see Hill have spent the offseason working with Chris Carter and Michael Irvin. Then ask them if he has it in him to make the grade

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by SurfCityJet View Post
    I'd love to see Hill have spent the offseason working with Chris Carter and Michael Irvin. Then ask them if he has it in him to make the grade
    I wish he spent the off season with Dr James Andrews. Maybe he could have transplanted some hands onto him.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by BX Jet Fan View Post
    I wish he spent the off season with Dr James Andrews. Maybe he could have transplanted some hands onto him.
    One drop last season. Try again, troll.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    One drop last season. Try again, troll.
    Lighten up Francis.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    What does that have to do with anything, whether we traded up for him or not? You act like that automatically means he must be a stud from day one. It doesn't change a thing! He is still the same receiver we thought he was before we traded up for him! You act like he was a raw prospect but when we decided to trade up that's like us paying a price that would convert into making him a complete receiver, like we're gonna speed up that process by giving up draft picks. As if Goodell gave us the option "hey, you want Hill raw? That's a 3rd round pick. You want to speed up the process a little and have him complete already? Pay a 2nd". Just use some common sense man, that's all I'm asking. We traded up for him, he didn't ask for it. And it was not a mistake either because somebody else would have. Give him a fair shake before you're gonna count him out. It's like judging Geno just based on his last 16 games. These 2 have had about the same number of starts in the league. Do you cut Geno now because he didn't look great? He was a 2nd round pick! And unlike Stephen his play didn't get affected by an injury. No, we don't say we have to cut him. We try to give him a fair shake first. You improve the O-Line, you build a running game, you give him some weapons, and then you give him AT THE VERY LEAST least 1-2 full seasons (1 is still not enough actually). After that you can start judging him. Geno has a huge following despite his stats. Hill has 90% haters here it seems. Makes no sense.

    We all agree on this: If he can't get the job done and play at an NFL level then we will part ways at some point. But that's the furthest thing that has happened so far. He has shown he can dominate and be a very productive receiver in the NFL despite the fact that when he did play extremely well he still didn't figure out the position by that point, so he can actually be even more dominant once he learns the in's and out's. Let's see if we have a decent passing game next season. Let's see him healthy a full season. Let's just force feed him and see how he responds. Either he steps up and takes the next step (he's done that last year before he got hurt) or he doesn't get the job done. It seems people are scared that he might actually turn into a stud receiver for us. Maybe some people are more worried about being wrong instead of being happy about us having success. It's like they rather see him fail and have somebody else play somewhat ok in his absence rather than being proven wrong and have him turn out to be a productive receiver for us.

    And yes, we all want a ring. Soon. I'm not sure how this is falling on Hill. And I'm not sure how cutting him would correct this so called "mistake" (drafting him, according to you). It only makes things worse. Why not give him a fair shake and see if that pick turns out to be a great one instead. Nobody is gonna guarantee you or anyone else that Hill is gonna be the next CJ, but you can't say for sure that he will never become a good receiver. GM's don't quit on talented players with big upside, look at Aldon Smith or Josh Gordon. I understand they have proven already they can be great but they also make a ton of cash, so you're essentially paying them for not playing, and they have a huge history of messing up and being just plain stupid, they're damaging your franchise, they're counter productive, something Hill has not. Yet the teams hang on to them. Under the right circumstances actually I think Hill has a very good chance to develop into a great deep threat a la Mike Wallace. He's had some bad luck. A handful of big plays got lost last year and it wasn't on him (flags, bad throws), the injuries. Who knows where would be right now if not for all that? He sure would have had way better numbers, he wouldn't have disappeared in the 2nd half of the season either. And let's not act like CJ would put up 2000 yards here. So put that all in perspective. Even if Hill does his job and reaches his full potential, he's never gonna be a CJ type of receiver (even if he had all the skills) in THIS offense. CJ would never be the same receiver he is in Detroit in THIS offense. Lower your expectations. People hear the CJ comparisons with Hill and since he doesn't wow anybody yet they want him gone. He's on a different team. We need an established passing game, Hill needs to be fully recovered from the knee issues he's had and then we'll go from there. There is absolutely no upside to cutting him. It'll only make the people that don't like him feel a little better, gives them the feel of being confirmed that Hill is no good. And since the front office doesn't agree / listen it seems like they build up even more hate for the kid and want to see him fail even more. I don't get it. It doesn't help this team one bit to get rid of him. People are being selfish. They rather be right about something that doesn't help this team instead of being proven wrong on something that could potentially take this offense to the next level (that big deep threat who can score any time you throw it deep, imagine that guy next to a go to receiver like Decker and with Kerley in the slot, and an established running game + great defense). We need Hill to succeed which is why we're not gonna give up on him until he has clearly proven to everybody that he doesn't have the ability to play WR in the NFL.
    The round that a player is drafted in has a great deal to do with expectations. The more you give up to draft a player means more also. SH has cost the Jets a lot so far and has not produced the value to warrant his selection at that time. If you think that he has been a value, there are others that think we paid too much.

    i am not trying to change your mind about SH. Hill needs to make plays and stay healthy. He is a NY Jet. So we all want him to do well. He just has not.

  16. #116
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    If you listened to the Idzik interview today you get the idea that the sun is setting on Hill unless he can make a big jump. Two words Idzik kept mentioning were "instinctive" and "aggressive" when talking about the draft picks and playing like a Jet. Hill has not shown either of those traits during his first two years.

  17. #117
    My last post on this version of JI will be used to pat myself on the back.

    Called it. Draft hadn't even ended yet. Go me.



    Now, off to Scout.com.....

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBallhawk View Post
    Unlike you I think our FO/Coaching Staff is actually using their braincells. Hill has shown flashes. The facts remain that a) he was extremely raw coming out of college, we all knew he needed a few years until he starts getting "it" and that's where we are right now, so why are people surprised he's not there yet? B) We don't have a passing game (that includes not having an established QB / an established passing game / proven passing offense that can put up 350+ passing yards any given week a la NO/IND/DET etc.). And most importantly C) ever since he got here he's had knee issues (constant swelling) after a few games that ruined his season twice, and both times we had to IR him because he couldn't run routes properly or make use of his speed. It's no coincidence that in both years he started out hot and then by the 2nd half of the season he was a non factor and got IR'd.

    Let us establish a passing game, let him get healthy, let him get to 100% and then let him finish a full season and then you can at least start to judge him and see if he can play or not. But to judge him now when he's had all these knee issues and no passing game to really help him is pretty ridiculous. Hate all you want, the kid has crazy upside and deserves to have a full, healthy season with an established QB who can throw the ball well. If he drops balls, if he doesn't run routes properly all that, then you can say he can't do this or that.

    What exactly are talking about anyway? What do you think he CAN'T do? Don't give me the route running BS, I've covered that already. He was extremely raw and he's still learning the position, we knew that before we drafted him. And it's hard running routes on one leg. That's what's funny about this. All these haters they have nothing to say except yeah he sucks, let's cut him. But they can't tell you why he sucks. When they talk about drops it's easy to say he's had one drop last season and made some of the toughest catches in the NFL that year with guys knocking him out and he still held on. The kid is one of the toughest receivers we've had over the years. Instead of sticking up for him for the effort he's showing he's getting bashed by a bunch of people that want to see him fail. Kid has been nothing but classy. Takes big hits, doesn't talk trash, doesn't do anything negative, just does his job. Let him do his thing. I'm willing to give the kid a few more years at the very least and let him develop and give him some decent coaching, something he hasn't had the last couple years. Like he's making 12 mil. per year that we have to cut him. He makes nothing. And he's got more upside than 95% of the receivers in the NFL. Why the hell do people still want him gone? Mind boggling.
    I can tell you why he sucks daballhawk -

    The NFL is as much about staying healthy in order to participate in practice & games as it is having talent enough to excel in the NFL. He has enough raw talent to become something - but you can say that about almost everyone of the some 350 NFL Combine invites. In order for Hill to make the most of his raw talents he would have to practice to learn route running and lots of time catching the ball with either the Jugg machine or with former elite WR's like for instance - Michael Irvin or Chris Carter. 2nd round picks can afford to pay outside the organization people like that fee's to teach them the finer points of catching the football.

    In addition, in the 2 years since he's been in the NFL not counting this preseason, Hill has gotten to reputation as someone who is soft. When I went to Cortland this summer to watch them practice an intern told me the Jet coaches were concerned that Hill wasn't tough enough and that he was too effected by the hits during the course of practice and games. Toughness isn't something that you learn, either you have it or you don't. Some players are known for having toughness in regardless of size. Our own draftee Jalen Saunders is 5'7 165lbs and is known for being able to absorb hits and play through injuries.

    This preseason Hill was healthy. He had an opportunity to make plays through all the snaps that he was given in practice and in preseason games. He didn't separate himself enough to beat out players like Salas who did take advantage of each practice and game. You're indicating that we should give him more time because he was raw in college? My argument is that he hasn't approved enough over the last 2 years to warrant thinking that he can stay healthy enough to produce in the NFL. If you add that to the fact that after two years he hasn't gotten better at actually catching the ball or separating from NFL CB's along with his questionable toughness anyone can easily see why he was released.

    Thats why he sucks!

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by JB1089 View Post
    My last post on this version of JI will be used to pat myself on the back.

    Called it. Draft hadn't even ended yet. Go me.

    Now, off to Scout.com.....
    I'm lost. Tonight is the last time this version of JI is available?

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