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Thread: In case Geno doesn't pan out...Kiper's early QB ratings for 2015 Draft.

  1. #21
    how does mariotta's game not translate to the nfl? he's the best qb in college and i think was better than any of the qbs that came out this year. if he comes out next yr. provided he has no injuries he should be the top pick in the draft.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamers View Post
    I called Carr being the top SR and I am calling Devin Gardner this year. Not sure why people are jumping off that train. Devin Gardner, Sean Mannion, and Braxton Miller are my 1 2 3 in this SR class. Cole Stoudt, Garrett Grayson, Andrew Manley, and Nick Montana are the only other guys I would even watch. As far as underclass guys. Winston, Kiel, Lunt, Hogan, Driskel(yes I like him), Dak Prescott, Huntley, Mariota, and Cook are my top ten.
    Devin Gardner?? Yikes. Plus there is a good chance that Cole Stoudt doesn't start for more than a few games, Clemson wants to get the true freshman DeShaun Watson in there before the season is over.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bruceharper View Post
    how does mariotta's game not translate to the nfl? he's the best qb in college and i think was better than any of the qbs that came out this year. if he comes out next yr. provided he has no injuries he should be the top pick in the draft.
    Mariotta relies a lot on throwing on the run outside of the pocket which his harder to do in the NFL because of tighter CB coverage. He also throws a lot of screen passes. Also we have yet to see a dual threat QB succeed as a franchise QB. Michael Vick comes the closest, but injuries and inconsistency have rendered him unreliable. Of course maybe things would be different if he never committed those crimes. Remember, just because you can run doesn't mean you have to. A QBs priority should be to get the ball to his receivers first and foremost. If the majority of a QBs throws are outside the pocket it can be a sign of weakness that he is progressing through his reads efficiently. If you are drafting a QB to hold onto for 5 years then I see no problem going for the dual threat. But, if you want a QB for 15 years then it could be a red flag.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Devin Gardner?? Yikes. Plus there is a good chance that Cole Stoudt doesn't start for more than a few games, Clemson wants to get the true freshman DeShaun Watson in there before the season is over.
    Yes IMO it is anther one of those SR classes where you will not find a lot. Gardner has a much higher upside then Carr did and actually progressed some last year. The guy has some great abilities and will be running an O that will translate well in the NFL. If he can even post a 56% comp he will be the top SR. He has a good guy teaching him to break things down going into the year and if he can absorb that no doubt in my mind he is the top SR. He had a ton of turnovers but KIM he only had 1 his last 6 games last year. If he keeps up with that trend yes he will be hard to overlook with the yard he can put up in the air vs good teams.

    I would like to see what Cole can do. I personally think he starts the whole year and has a good year. If not yeah you can write him off all together. The guy has been there a while and wasnt a wash recruit at all. He may be that in the wings transition guy that teams like what they see in one year. As long as they has some hopes of any bowl game I think he plays.

  5. #25
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    Gardner will never be able to operate a NFL offense, he can't even do it on the collegiate level.

    Did you watch the Mich St. game this year? I don't use the term brutal very often.....but that was brutal. More upside than Carr, Ok whatever

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    Bryce Petty looks pretty good!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by wskelly View Post
    Mariotta relies a lot on throwing on the run outside of the pocket which his harder to do in the NFL because of tighter CB coverage. He also throws a lot of screen passes. Also we have yet to see a dual threat QB succeed as a franchise QB. Michael Vick comes the closest, but injuries and inconsistency have rendered him unreliable. Of course maybe things would be different if he never committed those crimes. Remember, just because you can run doesn't mean you have to. A QBs priority should be to get the ball to his receivers first and foremost. If the majority of a QBs throws are outside the pocket it can be a sign of weakness that he is progressing through his reads efficiently. If you are drafting a QB to hold onto for 5 years then I see no problem going for the dual threat. But, if you want a QB for 15 years then it could be a red flag.
    steve young and john elway were dual threat qbs and they're both HOF.

    i've seen him light teams up from the pocket. I think he's next year's stud.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bruceharper View Post
    steve young and john elway were dual threat qbs and they're both HOF.

    i've seen him light teams up from the pocket. I think he's next year's stud.
    As long as his knees stay healthy. But after Stanford banged up his knee Mariota struggled against Arizona and Oregon State, needing a month off until the bowl game to recover. Montana was not much of a runner but he was great at throwing on the move... at least in highlights that I've seen. I was too young to witness his prime. As for Steve Young, he could still throw the rock when he wasn't running.

    I'm not saying Mariota can't be great at the next level. I just have too many visions of how it can fail to materialize. One being his legs get taken out. The second being that he'd have difficulty delivering downfield passes in tight coverage. I'm trying to find film on him where his receivers are tightly covered but I can't. Maybe it's because his running ability breaks down the coverage. With that said if he has another stellar year and a great bowl game against a good opponent, I guess I'd take him #1.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wskelly View Post
    As long as his knees stay healthy. But after Stanford banged up his knee Mariota struggled against Arizona and Oregon State, needing a month off until the bowl game to recover. Montana was not much of a runner but he was great at throwing on the move... at least in highlights that I've seen. I was too young to witness his prime. As for Steve Young, he could still throw the rock when he wasn't running.

    I'm not saying Mariota can't be great at the next level. I just have too many visions of how it can fail to materialize. One being his legs get taken out. The second being that he'd have difficulty delivering downfield passes in tight coverage. I'm trying to find film on him where his receivers are tightly covered but I can't. Maybe it's because his running ability breaks down the coverage. With that said if he has another stellar year and a great bowl game against a good opponent, I guess I'd take him #1.

    that is what mariotta does best he scans the field till he finds the open guy...........unless you have the bears 85 or ravens 00 defense someone on offense will be open.

    mariotta goes thru his progressions faster than any QB I have seen in a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    that is what mariotta does best he scans the field till he finds the open guy...........unless you have the bears 85 or ravens 00 defense someone on offense will be open.

    mariotta goes thru his progressions faster than any QB I have seen in a long time.
    But Oregon's offense isn't designed to have a lot of reads in the passing game. Much of the decision making is made pre-snap based on how the defense is lined up, and then it is a one read type progression. It is a little similar to what Geno played in with Dana Holgorsen at WVU.

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    Good info ... I'll dig into it a mid-season if Geno $h*ts the bed

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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    But Oregon's offense isn't designed to have a lot of reads in the passing game. Much of the decision making is made pre-snap based on how the defense is lined up, and then it is a one read type progression. It is a little similar to what Geno played in with Dana Holgorsen at WVU.

    the difference is if he reads that first progression in a split-second and if it is not thier he can easily be on his third progression by the time his dropback steps are finished.......where as geno waited longer for his first read to get open making it easier to defend.............mariotta is going to give defensiv e coordinators nightmares because of how fast he can scan the field. If he can quicken his release a little more he can be a all-pro

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    the difference is if he reads that first progression in a split-second and if it is not thier he can easily be on his third progression by the time his dropback steps are finished.......where as geno waited longer for his first read to get open making it easier to defend.............mariotta is going to give defensiv e coordinators nightmares because of how fast he can scan the field. If he can quicken his release a little more he can be a all-pro
    College and Pro reads and progressions are two entirely different animals. People were saying the same things about Geno in college as you are saying about Mariota. The spread offenses are actually very simple offenses for a QB to execute, there is typically only one read for the Qb to make and he gets the ball out quickly. Receivers run the routes that are called and there really isn't any option routes in college spread offenses. In the Pro game not only the QB has to read the defense but the receiver does as well, and both have to be on the same page. I am not sure what you are seeing if you think Mariota is going through his progressions while dropping back, he operates from the shotgun 99% of the time. You can't compare what Mariota is doing in that offense to what Geno is doing in an NFL offense, they are night and day.

  14. #34
    I'm a Michigan fan, and trust me, Devin Gardner isn't anything special. Maybe a bigger Tahj Boyd type, sure, but that's about it. He does pretty well from time to time because they have a good O-Line, which gives him time to let people get open. Their basic play from the last couple of years has been to have Gardner drop back, stand around, and hope Gallon gets lost in the shuffle or Funchess is one on one somewhere. Otherwise it's a disaster more often than not. He can run, and has the size and arm, but he's not mentally there to be a good QB.

    I love Mariotta, I think he's a better version of Kapernick. The system helps him for sure and they have plenty of weapons on offense, but he's accurate with a good arm, and can run like the wind. He reminds me of RGIII a lot, a guy who can really be dynamic, but needs a bit of time to adjust to the NFL game. If Geno falters, I would love to take a shot at Mariotta, but hopefully we don't have to worry about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    College and Pro reads and progressions are two entirely different animals. People were saying the same things about Geno in college as you are saying about Mariota. The spread offenses are actually very simple offenses for a QB to execute, there is typically only one read for the Qb to make and he gets the ball out quickly. Receivers run the routes that are called and there really isn't any option routes in college spread offenses. In the Pro game not only the QB has to read the defense but the receiver does as well, and both have to be on the same page. I am not sure what you are seeing if you think Mariota is going through his progressions while dropping back, he operates from the shotgun 99% of the time. You can't compare what Mariota is doing in that offense to what Geno is doing in an NFL offense, they are night and day.

    actually i was comparing geno at college to mariotta and if you think geno was a good college QB then mariotta is way better granted he has better weapons also. I still would take mariotta in a heartbeat over geno right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    actually i was comparing geno at college to mariotta and if you think geno was a good college QB then mariotta is way better granted he has better weapons also. I still would take mariotta in a heartbeat over geno right now.
    Thats not saying much, you would still take Tebow over Geno right now. As far as Mariota being so much better than Geno, that can not be said right now. There is nothing that Mariota has done yet to suggest that he has a significantly better chance of success in the NFL than Geno does. All you are basing it on is your biased opinion towards Geno and a very distorted idea of what makes a good QB.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Thats not saying much, you would still take Tebow over Geno right now. As far as Mariota being so much better than Geno, that can not be said right now. There is nothing that Mariota has done yet to suggest that he has a significantly better chance of success in the NFL than Geno does. All you are basing it on is your biased opinion towards Geno and a very distorted idea of what makes a good QB.
    no i am basing it on how i see both play and get over the tebow thing he is no longer on the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrenegade View Post
    no i am basing it on how i see both play and get over the tebow thing he is no longer on the team.
    The Tebow thing has nothing to do with him being on the team, it calls into question what you are looking at when evaluating a QB. In this very thread you still maintain that Tebow is a better QB than Geno, based on that I am not sure how anyone can take what you say seriously after that.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    The Tebow thing has nothing to do with him being on the team, it calls into question what you are looking at when evaluating a QB. In this very thread you still maintain that Tebow is a better QB than Geno, based on that I am not sure how anyone can take what you say seriously after that.
    easy he made the playoffs with denver but hasn't been given another chance..............just because teams don't want you as a QB doesn't mean he is not good truth is all we have is his playing that he did in denver and what he did is alot better than geno so far.

  20. #40
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    If we had to grab a QB next year, give me Chuckie Keeton who is Russell Wilson 2.0

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