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Thread: Can the Jets O-Line become elite?

  1. #41
    I think the O-line will be good enough for the Jets running game to be elite

    Does a top 5 rushing attack make the O-line elite?

  2. #42
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    it's a good step in the right direction.

    to use the word elite passing stats would have to come close to that as well ... I for one am not going to get crazy and expect that to happen.

  3. #43
    Elite is judged by hindsight. Long season ahead.

    Real issue is whether Idzik's additions--Winters, Aboushi, Campbell, Ijalana, Dixon--develop. If we hit big on 1-2 of these guys, then maybe we will be able to look back and say we have an elite OL.

    Right now--not so much.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio State NY Jets fan View Post
    I think the O-line will be good enough for the Jets running game to be elite

    Does a top 5 rushing attack make the O-line elite?
    We were 6th in the league in rushing last season.

    If we make it to a top 5 rushing offense and rank 15th or so in pass protection, I'd be happy with that and consider it a step forward.

  5. #45
    Until we pick a lineman in round 1-2 or pay some free agent at least $5 mil per year, our OL will not be elite.

    You get what you pay for, usually less than that.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglenj View Post
    We have a winner!!!!

    People on this site who rip our offensive line, especially D'Brickshaw Ferguson have literally no sense of what else goes into OLine play. Put Brick on Manning's colts and the guys is a first ballot Hall of Famer, probably would have allowed about 2 career sacks.

    Our line has played the last 5 seasons with either a rookie (Geno) who had virtually no ability at all to read and set protections and 4 years with a QB (Sanchez) who is arguably the least cerebral player I have ever seen play the position (See his wonderful clock expiring play last preseason). On top of that, we have faced 8 man Boxes for those same 5 years while at the same not having a single blocking TE ever play even a semi-meaningful role.

    Its a team game and if an offensive line made up of MULTIPLE Re-Treads performing at an ELITE level isnt enough of an example of what a QB does for his line, then I dont know what else to say.
    And yet the 2009 and 2010 version of the Oline (which was elite) kept Sanchez upright. I don't recall one game during either of those seasons where Sanchez was under siege. And yet, in 2011, Sanchez was on his back half the time. Why? The oline got worse.

    And Denver's oline sure couldn't block Seattle's defensive line.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    And yet the 2009 and 2010 version of the Oline (which was elite) kept Sanchez upright. I don't recall one game during either of those seasons where Sanchez was under siege. And yet, in 2011, Sanchez was on his back half the time. Why? The oline got worse.

    And Denver's oline sure couldn't block Seattle's defensive line.
    Everything you said is correct but you fail to realize that you can't have EVERY player on the team be a pro bowler.

    Yes the 2009-10 line was exceptional, but players get old, overpaid, etc and need to be replaced. The thing is the organization bet that in 2011 the QB would take a step forward and make up for the individual changes in the line. Unfortunately for us he didn't.

    Eli Manning was "under siege" in the NFC Championship and SB yet he made the plays to win those games. Aaron Rogers has never had a great line, but his offense manages to thrive.

    We can't focus every draft and FA signing on the line, while at the same time getting offensive weapons for the QB, and at the same time draft defense - its not possible. At some point your QB has to make the players around him better - otherwise you are just plugging one hole while another one springs a leak.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio State NY Jets fan View Post
    I think the O-line will be good enough for the Jets running game to be elite

    Does a top 5 rushing attack make the O-line elite?
    No. You still need pass protection. I think we're fine at the Tackles and Center position I'm a little concerned about both Guard spots. We also still don't have a good blocking TE.

  9. #49
    OL statistics are pretty useless. It's a classic GIGO measurement. There are so many factors not measured, that you end up with a distorted view of what you are trying to measure.

    Jets OL struggled with pass protection and excelled in the run game. We know this because that's how the team performed. This year, without doing a thing, the OL will improve in pass protection and improve in the run game. They will be irrelevant to that improvement. Geno will get rid of the ball faster, WR's will get open sooner, and Ivory and CJ will gain more yards. So statistically, the Jets will look like they are taking a step forward. As I said, statistics will not necessarily tell you what's going on.

    The OL itself will probably play better--especially in the run game. I think Breno will be a step up on Howard in the run game (and I liked Howard). Colon's injury history makes him a ?, but I think he will start the season just fine. Winters will play significantly better this year than last. (Slauson was a lot worse that Winters as a rookie and he has developed into a competent OG.) So it may come down to whether Aboushi or Dozier can be ready to step in for Colon at some point this year. I think one or both will be able to do that.

    Obviously, I am shading things to the optimistic side. You can make a negative case pretty easily. But then, we should only have won 2-3 games last year if you believe the negative side of things. That prediction didn't work out too well.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by detjetsfan View Post
    No. You still need pass protection. I think we're fine at the Tackles and Center position I'm a little concerned about both Guard spots. We also still don't have a good blocking TE.
    I disagree. BRICK has been getting beat by speed rushers to the outside and is merely average as a run blocker. NICK has been pushed back more times then not last year. He might have been compensating for WINTERS. WINTERS and COLON should be better this year. I like the young guys behind them. The FB is NOT as great of a blocker as I'd like. CUMBY is a better blocker then we give him credit for. But I agree with you , we do need pass protection. The UDFA- TE from last year PANTALE is a very capable blocker. We will have to see if he makes the team by beating out SUDFELD. Can Chad Young beat out Tommy Bohanon at FB this year? He is a much better blocker and can catch out of the backfield.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet View Post
    I disagree. BRICK has been getting beat by speed rushers to the outside and is merely average as a run blocker. NICK has been pushed back more times then not last year. He might have been compensating for WINTERS. WINTERS and COLON should be better this year. I like the young guys behind them. The FB is NOT as great of a blocker as I'd like. CUMBY is a better blocker then we give him credit for. But I agree with you , we do need pass protection. The UDFA- TE from last year PANTALE is a very capable blocker. We will have to see if he makes the team by beating out SUDFELD. Can Chad Young beat out Tommy Bohanon at FB this year? He is a much better blocker and can catch out of the backfield.
    Brick and Mangold are getting old but they're still capable. Cumby couldn't block Vernon Gholston. Winters I could see being better how could he not be. Colon I dunno he is already injured we were lucky he survived an entire season for us last year.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan View Post
    I think you are overstating it a bit.

    Woody vs Giacomini in particular.

    You haven't seen Giacomini take a single snap in a Jets uniform.

    The other ones I bolded are questionable conclusions as well.
    Woody was much better in that time period, while Giacomini has not played close to that level that Woody was at. Plus Woody was not always getting flagged. While he has been in the league for 6 years he only started 3 so there still may be room for a tick in upside.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by patman View Post
    Woody was much better in that time period, while Giacomini has not played close to that level that Woody was at. Plus Woody was not always getting flagged. While he has been in the league for 6 years he only started 3 so there still may be room for a tick in upside.
    Woody was 31 yrs old when he signed with the Jets - would turn 32 that November of his first season with us - clearly past his prime which is why he was moved a few seasons earlier from C to RT.

    Giacomini is 28 - turns 29 in September and in his prime and he has been a RT since he entered the league.

    I won't judge Giacomini's ability until I see him play some games in a Jets uniform.

    Pointing to penalties as an indicator of performance is a little misleading.

    If an OT plays nasty & aggressively obviously he is going to get more penalties then one who plays with finesse.

    That's not necessarily an indication of ability - it could just as easily be an indication of the difference in their style of play.
    Last edited by ARodFLKeysJetsFan; 07-07-2014 at 09:11 AM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by detectivekimble View Post
    This line cannot become elite. Even if Winters "developed," you still have a C and a LT whose best years are behind them and a mediocre RT. I don't care how good the young guards become. It takes a lot more than that to have an elite OL.
    Meciocre RT based on what, a guess by you or that it makes your argument ?

  15. #55
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    Can the Jets O-Line become elite?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan View Post
    Woody was 31 yrs old when he signed with the Jets - would turn 32 that November of his first season with us - clearly past his prime which is why he was moved a few seasons earlier from C to RT.

    Giacomini is 28 - turns 29 in September and in his prime. I won't judge Giacomini's ability until I see him play some games in a Jets uniform.

    Pointing to penalties as an indicator of performance is a little misleading.

    If an OT plays nasty & aggressively obviously he is going to get more penalties then one who plays with finesse.

    That's not necessarily an indication of ability - it could just as easily be an indication of the difference in their style of play.
    Why do you need to see him play? Just make it up like you've seen him. With the rest of the line here

    Best part of the Woody argument is pretty much no one wanted him, thought he was anything more than mediocre when we got him. Now? Lol, HOF material

  16. #56
    Given our play at guard last year, I would be happy if our OL was adequate this year.

    We filled a huge hole at safety and added some pass catchers.

    QB, CB, and OL are the biggest areas of concern right now.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan View Post
    Woody was 31 yrs old when he signed with the Jets - would turn 32 that November of his first season with us - clearly past his prime which is why he was moved a few seasons earlier from C to RT.

    Giacomini is 28 - turns 29 in September and in his prime and he has been a RT since he entered the league.

    I won't judge Giacomini's ability until I see him play some games in a Jets uniform.

    Pointing to penalties as an indicator of performance is a little misleading.

    If an OT plays nasty & aggressively obviously he is going to get more penalties then one who plays with finesse.

    That's not necessarily an indication of ability - it could just as easily be an indication of the difference in their style of play.
    Are you saying is is tougher athletically to play center than RT? In what universe? He moved to RT because he could not shotgun snap for beans. Could not do it well for the Pats and did
    it worse in Detroit where he only played as a fill in, the last year in NE he played guard. He had no trouble getting to LBs from the center position in NE just could not "long" snap

    What does jumping off sides and holding have to do with style of play? What do you mean "nasty and aggressive" Very seldom do olineman get flagged during running plays when a guy jumps off sides, it is not aggressive it is stupid.

    I like to see the local kid have a long career in the nfl, but he is not in Woody's class.

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