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Thread: Cut Willie Colon

  1. #1

    Cut Willie Colon

    Surprised people weren't all over this. He had a god awful first quarter. Second series in particular: Whiffed on a pass block and almost let Cullen Jenkins kill Geno. Next play lethargic and fell behind the play on a screen to CJ2k. Next play absolutely useless as a pulling guard, didn't touch anyone. Next play pushed straight back into Geno's face (on a nice completion to Decker, admittedly). Next play, ok, though fell on his ass after decent block, failed to block in second level. Next play poor balance and footwork, let dlinemen release and tackle runner. Next play, ok pass blocking, but had help from Mangold. Next play, put up some resistance as a pass blocker on a dlineman stunting, but did so by falling down in front of the guy.

    Visually, he's clearly in the worst shape of any of the starting OL. Maybe he still needs to drop a few injury pounds and get back into "football shape", but combine his consistently subpar play with his tendency to draw flags, and I think this guy has to be off the field. Hope to see something from Oboushi and Dozier next week.

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    Uh huh, you're surprised? Wonder why? Why do people complain about OL when they have no clue.

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    Is there a place where I can nominate this one for "WORST THREAD OF THE WEEK"??

  4. #4
    Enlighten me. Seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleem View Post
    Surprised people weren't all over this. He had a god awful first quarter. Second series in particular: Whiffed on a pass block and almost let Cullen Jenkins kill Geno. Next play lethargic and fell behind the play on a screen to CJ2k. Next play absolutely useless as a pulling guard, didn't touch anyone. Next play pushed straight back into Geno's face (on a nice completion to Decker, admittedly). Next play, ok, though fell on his ass after decent block, failed to block in second level. Next play poor balance and footwork, let dlinemen release and tackle runner. Next play, ok pass blocking, but had help from Mangold. Next play, put up some resistance as a pass blocker on a dlineman stunting, but did so by falling down in front of the guy.

    Visually, he's clearly in the worst shape of any of the starting OL. Maybe he still needs to drop a few injury pounds and get back into "football shape", but combine his consistently subpar play with his tendency to draw flags, and I think this guy has to be off the field. Hope to see something from Oboushi and Dozier next week.
    This is something that bears watching. Pass protection has been an issue the past few years. It will be interesting to see who starts at OG this season. Is Colon ready? Is he washed up? Or is he still not in game shape?

    I guess one plus is he didn't commit a PF for once. I hope he's ready and solidifies one of the OG positions but I keep reading that he's struggling and we've been seeing a lot of shuffling that involves his position. You're not the only one who's noticed this.

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    I don't know what game you and the other critics were watching OP but I saw an OL that pretty much kept Geno upright all night and gave him a pocket to step into. Our run game was no slouch either. Geez, some folks are never satisfied!

  7. #7
    Yeah cut a locker room leader and a player the rest of the line seem to love playing with, yes he's a penalty machine at times but the O-line was superb the other night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    Yeah cut a locker room leader and a player the rest of the line seem to love playing with, yes he's a penalty machine at times but the O-line was superb the other night.
    I think this is a bad message. I believe too many here are emotionally attached to Willie but this isn't a popularity contest. I see others as well stating that his outspokenness should have some bearing on whether he is retained or starts. Should this really be a deciding factor? You're insinuating that they keep good guys in spite of their play as you concede he's a penalty machine.

    The best players should be starting and keeping your franchise QB upright, commit fewest penalties and execute blocks. If he performs well, there are no questions. But if he continues to miss assignments due to poor footwork or fitness, you can't keep him out there.
    Last edited by Drunk Old Joe; 08-24-2014 at 06:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIJetsFan View Post
    I don't know what game you and the other critics were watching OP but I saw an OL that pretty much kept Geno upright all night and gave him a pocket to step into. Our run game was no slouch either. Geez, some folks are never satisfied!
    No one nor was the topic initiator complaining about the running game. However, this doesn't mean we close our eyes to pass protection. And this is the aspect that was pointed out here. Colon has struggled there and has been arguably been worse in this aspect than the other two competing (Aboushi, Winters). But none of them have separated as all have had points of emphasis mentioned. With Colon, the poster points out that he is also whiffing downfield as well and on screens. I've read this elsewhere on several occasions. This sounds like a fitness issue to me. Is he fully recovered from injury?
    Last edited by Drunk Old Joe; 08-24-2014 at 06:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunk Old Joe View Post
    No one nor was the topic initiator complaining about the running game. However, this doesn't mean we close our eyes to pass protection. And this is the aspect that was pointed out here. Colon has struggled there and has been arguably been worse in this aspect than the other two competing (Aboushi, Winters). But none of them have separated as all have had points of emphasis mentioned. With Colon, the poster points out that he is also whiffing downfield as well and on screens. I've read this elsewhere on several occasions. This sounds like a fitness issue to me. Is he fully recovered from injury?
    pass protection, wtf: Geno was upright, had time to throw, and had a good pocket to step into. I don't get the complaint!

    other two competing, wtf: Winters is a starter, he's not competing with Colon.

    fitness issue, this in likely true, so wtf: Since the OP's topic is "Cut Willie Colon" I think he's nuts. I've no doubt Colon will play himself into shape.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunk Old Joe View Post
    I think this is a bad message. I believe too many here are emotionally attached to Willie but this isn't a popularity contest. I see others as well stating that his outspokenness should have some bearing on whether he is retained or starts. Should this really be a deciding factor? You're insinuating that they keep good guys in spite of their play as you concede he's a penalty machine.

    The best players should be starting and keeping your franchise QB upright, commit fewest penalties and execute blocks. If he performs well, there are no questions. But if he continues to miss assignments due to poor footwork or fitness, you can't keep him out there.
    No, I'm questioning the timing of this thread, the whole unit played exceptional the other night so at this point I see no reason to start tinkering with putting an un-polished Aboushi out there for the start of the season.

    If his play drops off and he continues to be a penalty machine then sure drop his ass, however right now things seem to be coming together for the line and I don't trust there is an adequate replacement.

  12. #12
    Our offense just performed at a very high level. No need to call anybody out or get anybody released. Colon is solid in the running game, he has always struggled a bit as a pass blocker, that's not exactly his forte. Wouldn't mind Aboushi in the starting lineup but cutting Colon would be stupid. At the very least he's a very good backup and the guys in the locker room like him. He still has a few good years left in him and he's not exactly one of the highest paid guards in the league. We have other stuff to worry about at this point. If the offense doesn't function we can focus on the O-Line again but after this game nobody up front should be criticized, they played excellent. The running game was terrific and the pass protection was very good also. You can't be perfect everywhere, or anywhere really. The Giants have a decent D-Line with some good pass rushers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
    No, I'm questioning the timing of this thread, the whole unit played exceptional the other night so at this point I see no reason to start tinkering with putting an un-polished Aboushi out there for the start of the season.

    If his play drops off and he continues to be a penalty machine then sure drop his ass, however right now things seem to be coming together for the line and I don't trust there is an adequate replacement.
    I don't think that was your message but okay, you don't think we should be discussing Colon here.

    But wait a second. What if Aboushi is playing better than Colon? You want a penalty-ridden OG that's allowing more pressures and sacks because he has more game experience over the unproven 2nd-year Aboushi? To what extent?

    I just bring up these questions as these are the same ones the coaching staff will have to answer. At what point does performance without experience trump mediocre play with experience?
    Last edited by Drunk Old Joe; 08-24-2014 at 06:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIJetsFan View Post
    pass protection, wtf: Geno was upright, had time to throw, and had a good pocket to step into. I don't get the complaint!

    other two competing, wtf: Winters is a starter, he's not competing with Colon.

    fitness issue, this in likely true, so wtf: Since the OP's topic is "Cut Willie Colon" I think he's nuts. I've no doubt Colon will play himself into shape.
    ...so we shouldn't be at all concerned with Colon. Got it.

    But you concede he has fitness issues. But that's okay since he will get into shape in the regular season? Maybe he should be placed on PUP? You and others say he's not fit and he's committing a lot of penalties (probably due to fitness)...it all sounds to me like he's not ready.

    As for Winters starting, no one knows this yet unless you have seen Rex' opening day roster. That's not relevant. These guys have been shuffled at LG and RG so to claim this with certainty is false.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunk Old Joe View Post
    I don't think that was your message but okay, you don't think we should be discussing Colon here.

    But wait a second. What if Aboushi is playing better than Colon? You want a penalty-ridden OG that's allowing more pressures and sacks because he has more game experience over the unproven 2nd-year Aboushi? To what extent?

    I just bring up these questions as these are the same ones the coaching staff will have to answer. At what point does performance without experience trump mediocre play with experience?
    I don't see where the confusion is, the gist of my first post I said he should not be cut because he is a leader, a guy the line is enamoured with, and most importantly I think his play was fine Friday night.

    I never said for one minute that if he performs poorly he should not be benched in favour of someone who could perform better, however if he plays at the same level as he did Friday then I'm relatively happy.

    Either way he should not be cut, he would be quality depth behind Aboushi.
    Last edited by Harrier; 08-24-2014 at 07:08 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleem View Post
    Surprised people weren't all over this. He had a god awful first quarter. Second series in particular: Whiffed on a pass block and almost let Cullen Jenkins kill Geno. Next play lethargic and fell behind the play on a screen to CJ2k. Next play absolutely useless as a pulling guard, didn't touch anyone. Next play pushed straight back into Geno's face (on a nice completion to Decker, admittedly). Next play, ok, though fell on his ass after decent block, failed to block in second level. Next play poor balance and footwork, let dlinemen release and tackle runner. Next play, ok pass blocking, but had help from Mangold. Next play, put up some resistance as a pass blocker on a dlineman stunting, but did so by falling down in front of the guy.

    Visually, he's clearly in the worst shape of any of the starting OL. Maybe he still needs to drop a few injury pounds and get back into "football shape", but combine his consistently subpar play with his tendency to draw flags, and I think this guy has to be off the field. Hope to see something from Oboushi and Dozier next week.
    This would be an absolutely psychotically DUMB thing to do. Colon's depth has a grand total of SIX starts between all of them. If we lose Colon we shut down any designs on running the ball to the right side. Not to mention, Colon is a team leader. Most of the lineman look to him as a leader. The players and the CS love his no nonsense, no excuse way of playing.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    This would be an absolutely psychotically DUMB thing to do. Colon's depth has a grand total of SIX starts between all of them. If we lose Colon we shut down any designs on running the ball to the right side. Not to mention, Colon is a team leader. Most of the lineman look to him as a leader. The players and the CS love his no nonsense, no excuse way of playing.
    Most jet fans on this site value him a lot more than I do, but you don't cut a guy when you have no valid b/u behind him, unless their is an off field issue that also is present. He already is not the most durable guy so his back-up will get more playing time this year.

  18. #18
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    Unfortunately he might just be our best option at the position. Just have to hope he can get himself into shape. Guard and CB are two very big question marks for us heading into the season.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunk Old Joe View Post
    ...so we shouldn't be at all concerned with Colon. Got it.

    But you concede he has fitness issues. But that's okay since he will get into shape in the regular season? Maybe he should be placed on PUP? You and others say he's not fit and he's committing a lot of penalties (probably due to fitness)...it all sounds to me like he's not ready.

    As for Winters starting, no one knows this yet unless you have seen Rex' opening day roster. That's not relevant. These guys have been shuffled at LG and RG so to claim this with certainty is false.
    Ok - so for those who want to cut colon who will be our swing guard? Dozier?

    Whether colons play has fallen off a bit or not, is not important, he is still the best option on this team at RG and its not close. Oday needs another year of seasoning and more importantly is a valuable backup at this point. Dozier needs a full offseason to hopefully become our swing guard next year, so why on earth would we cut a valuable, veteran pro who doesn't make a lot of money? Not to mention we have all the cap space in the world so cutting colon saves us nothing.

    Could he clean up the penalties yes. Could he drop a few pounds (IMO) and get in better shape, maybe. But he is our best RG by FAR and there is no benefit whatsoever to cutting him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainejet View Post
    This would be an absolutely psychotically DUMB thing to do. Colon's depth has a grand total of SIX starts between all of them. If we lose Colon we shut down any designs on running the ball to the right side. Not to mention, Colon is a team leader. Most of the lineman look to him as a leader. The players and the CS love his no nonsense, no excuse way of playing.
    I love how the OLine has played with a nasty streak. I don't think losing Colon would be a bad thing however.

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