Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: OT: Baseball is a joke

  1. #1
    Over the past 10 years major league baseball has become a joke...it is bad enough that only half of the teams have a chance to make it to the playoffs every year but now the perennial fire sales before the trade deadline make it a complete joke. And this is coming from a Yankee fan.... why even have 30 something teams? why even print names on the back of jerseys... To me there needs to be some kind of controls where these fire sales cannot happen....let the gms earn their money by signing the right guys in the offseason...and guess what if you screw up...maybe another team will finally get a chance to win a la the KC Royals or Minny Twins...... I would love to know how there are still fans in Cincy,Pitt, Milwaukee.. this game has been destroyed..

    I will continue to watch because I am a Yankee fan and they benefit the most along with Chi and Boston but to me the game is tarnished and once football is in full speed, I could care less..

  2. #2
    [quote][i]Originally posted by 4HCrew[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 07:52 AM
    [b] Over the past 10 years major league baseball has become a joke...it is bad enough that only half of the teams have a chance to make it to the playoffs every year but now the perennial fire sales before the trade deadline make it a complete joke. And this is coming from a Yankee fan.... why even have 30 something teams? why even print names on the back of jerseys... To me there needs to be some kind of controls where these fire sales cannot happen....let the gms earn their money by signing the right guys in the offseason...and guess what if you screw up...maybe another team will finally get a chance to win a la the KC Royals or Minny Twins...... I would love to know how there are still fans in Cincy,Pitt, Milwaukee.. this game has been destroyed..

    I will continue to watch because I am a Yankee fan and they benefit the most along with Chi and Boston but to me the game is tarnished and once football is in full speed, I could care less.. [/b][/quote]
    I agree with your point about football being way more intriguing than baseball...and I completely understand your desire to jump off the Yankee bandwagon at this point in time. NYY is surely destined to fail in their quest to get back to the World Series, we all know that much.

    But are you sure this is going to be your excuse for jumping ship? I mean, unfair baseball economics of all things! It is the unfair advantage of the Yank-mes that drew so many of you bandwagon-hopping frontrunners to the Yankees in the first place...you should have to think of a REAL reason to abandon the Pinstrpied Pansies! I mean, they ruined baseball several years ago...this point of yours is nothing new.

    And now, just because they cant make significant mid season deals anymore, and rape someone else of their star players, you want off the bandwagon? You Yankee fans really kill me!

  3. #3
    Hall Of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Valley Stream, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,969
    Like you, I've become disgusted with the state of pro baseball, especially since I started my love affair with the sport nearly 40 years ago. So many of the changes are for the bad, including most especially how loyal fans are treated. Only if MLB adopts the salary cap and full revenue sharing the way the NFL does will we start to see some real competition and "hope" for the Devil Rays and Expos of the baseball world. But as long as the MLB Players Union has anything to say about it, there will never be a Hard Cap implemented, and the rich teams and elite players will only get richer while the fans get stuck with the bill.

    I understand the realities of Free Agency and what it's done to revolutionize the game I grew up worshiping. I also don't blame the Player's Union for jealously protecting their right to allow jerks like the Texas Rangers owner (Tom ?) to grossly overpay them, year after year. I'd do the same. However, those are just 2 of the things I see that has alienated many traditional fans such as myself. Baseball used to be my #1 sport, hands down. Now it's football by a mile, and I wonder if MLB owners and players even notice how many fans they're losing.

  4. #4
    Soccer (MLS, etc) is an even bigger joke.

    -AJ-

  5. #5
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rockaway Beach, Queens, NY
    Posts
    948
    [quote][i]Originally posted by 4HCrew[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 07:52 AM
    [b] Over the past 10 years major league baseball has become a joke...it is bad enough that only half of the teams have a chance to make it to the playoffs every year but now the perennial fire sales before the trade deadline make it a complete joke. And this is coming from a Yankee fan.... why even have 30 something teams? why even print names on the back of jerseys... To me there needs to be some kind of controls where these fire sales cannot happen....let the gms earn their money by signing the right guys in the offseason...and guess what if you screw up...maybe another team will finally get a chance to win a la the KC Royals or Minny Twins...... I would love to know how there are still fans in Cincy,Pitt, Milwaukee.. this game has been destroyed..

    I will continue to watch because I am a Yankee fan and they benefit the most along with Chi and Boston but to me the game is tarnished and once football is in full speed, I could care less.. [/b][/quote]
    Half the teams? Right now, 8 or 9 of the 14 teams in the AL have a realistic shot at the post-season (depending on what you feel about the Angels.) And in the NL, 11 of the 16 teams are in the playoff hunt, and one that isnt (Mets) felt they had a chance coming into this season.

    Does it suck that teams like Detroit and Milwaukee come in to each season with no shot? Yes. But is it MLB's fault, or the fault of the management of those franchises?

    Can you tell me all 32 teams in the NFL right now have a shot at the playoffs? I won't even include the expansion team in Houston, but I'd like you to tell a football fan in Arizona, Detroit, Cincy, etc. that they have a shot at postseason glory this season.

    As for the fire sales, do you prefer situations where guys are getting cut left and right because of salary cap reasons? Teams develop their younger players, then watch them leave 2 or 3 years later? Both sports have major problems, but yet I still watch them both. You dont want to, you dont have to.

  6. #6
    Baseball lost me when the games started to last 3 hours. A damm Baseball game. I still go to see tha triple a team 2 or three times a year though.

    Now it is the financial situation. When the yankees are allowed to spend more money on the minor leagues/Free agents than some MLB teams something is wrong. on both sides of the spectrum. To make me a fan again

    A cap floor of 60 mill and a ceiling of 120 mill total for all baseball players in all levels. A drafted player is slotted like FB/BB so that teams at the lower end dont pass up the better players because of signablity.

    no arbitration, free agency after 5 years of service, 9 years of proball.

  7. #7
    [quote][i]Originally posted by patman[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 09:47 AM
    [b] Baseball lost me when the games started to last 3 hours. A damm Baseball game. I still go to see tha triple a team 2 or three times a year though.

    Now it is the financial situation. When the yankees are allowed to spend more money on the minor leagues/Free agents than some MLB teams something is wrong. on both sides of the spectrum. To make me a fan again

    A cap floor of 60 mill and a ceiling of 120 mill total for all baseball players in all levels. A drafted player is slotted like FB/BB so that teams at the lower end dont pass up the better players because of signablity.

    no arbitration, free agency after 5 years of service, 9 years of proball. [/b][/quote]
    Would you freakin' listen to yourself?! You are so biased and narrow-sighted about this rivalry it's almost scary.

    It's easy to label the Yankees as the poster-children for dysfunctional baseball because year after year, "fat" George puts more of his loot into the team than any other owner. That makes it convienient for whiny BoSox fans because it allows them to neatly write off a century of mediocrity and second place finishes.

    But tell me...where do the Red Sox fall on the list of payroll size?

    I'll tell you...it's 5th. 5th out of 30. In other word there are 25 teams in MLB spending less than the Red Sox... So can we please stop painting the Fenway F*ck-ups as the poor step-sisters of the AL.

    You aren't Minny fans or Tampa, or Milwaukee fans who I would say have a legitimate beef...No, you are Red Sox fans, so you don't . If high payrolls are the crime than the $180M Yankees are guilty, but guess who is sharing a prison cell with them?...the $105M Red Sox.

    BB

  8. #8
    how can you have a champion when the leagues play with separate rules? that's worse than the bcs.

    also, the luxury tax is bullspit. the team makes up the loss from taxes by the money made in the playoffs (tickets, retail, food, etc)

    ANDRO. look at McGuire's face and tell me he didn't do andro. look at bagwell's size and tell me he didn't do roids. hah!

    oh yea and the game is extremely slow.

  9. #9
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Buffboy[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 02:41 PM
    [b] I'll tell you...it's 5th. 5th out of 30. In other word there are 25 teams in MLB spending less than the Red Sox... So can we please stop painting the Fenway F*ck-ups as the poor step-sisters of the AL.

    You aren't Minny fans or Tampa, or Milwaukee fans who I would say have a legitimate beef...No, you are Red Sox fans, so you don't . If high payrolls are the crime than the $180M Yankees are guilty, but guess who is sharing a prison cell with them?...the $105M Red Sox.

    BB [/b][/quote]
    Hardly. Yes, the Sox are among the higher payroll teams and we are thankful for that. The big difference is everybody, but the Yanks are at or close to their max. How many teams can swallow Mondesi, Contreras and some of the other big contracts and still remain competitive? One, the Yanks.

    Using ESPN's salary list there is no one within 41 million of the Yanks. There are 6 teams within 41 million (20 up tp 120 and 20 down to 80) close to the Sox in payroll. Going straight down (100 to 59), there 16 teams.

    It is not that the Sox are poor, they are not. It is just that the Yanks are in a league of their own. The Sox are in the next division of 7 teams. 6 of which are vying for the playoffs (Mess the exception).

  10. #10
    First of all just because the redsox are a beneficiary of the system does not make it right. I can't remember the last time I watched a whole baseball game I think it was Clemens/Pedro#1.

    4 years ago the yanks only spent about 10% more than the sox and they still kicked thier ass. The post was not about Sox/Yankees but BASEBALL.
    and how to return the majority of the teams to competition again.

    The yanks have made excellent personnel decisons and their record shows it. I am not saying that it is not right that George uses everything at his disposal to field the best team that he can. What I am saying is wrong is that some teams are spendeing 8X what other teams are spending.
    the lower teams should have to spend at least 60mill and the yanks redsox,braves/mets/etc can still outspend them 2:1.

    The rookie free agent draft is also a large problem dont you thinkd that 30 teams were interested in Contreas or JD Drew but had to pass as they could not spend the money instead only the top 5 teams get to bid?

    Sports is about competition on the field, no in the boardroom. The yakees can still spend more than other teams on scouting and such to pick players and develop them. Just that they (top 6 teams) cant raid other teams players to the extent that they do now.

    Look what is happening to Oakland, a repeat of Montreal when every year they lose a star, Damon,Giambi, Trjeada their reliever. In two years none of the big three will play for them either probally one on the sox mets and yanks.

  11. #11
    [quote][i]Originally posted by PFSIKH+Jul 30 2003, 11:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PFSIKH @ Jul 30 2003, 11:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Buffboy[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 02:41 PM
    [b] I&#39;ll tell you...it&#39;s 5th. 5th out of 30. In other word there are 25 teams in MLB spending less than the Red Sox... So can we please stop painting the Fenway F*ck-ups as the poor step-sisters of the AL.

    You aren&#39;t Minny fans or Tampa, or Milwaukee fans who I would say have a legitimate beef...No, you are Red Sox fans, so you don&#39;t . If high payrolls are the crime than the &#036;180M Yankees are guilty, but guess who is sharing a prison cell with them?...the &#036;105M Red Sox.

    BB [/b][/quote]
    Hardly. Yes, the Sox are among the higher payroll teams and we are thankful for that. The big difference is everybody, but the Yanks are at or close to their max. How many teams can swallow Mondesi, Contreras and some of the other big contracts and still remain competitive? One, the Yanks.

    Using ESPN&#39;s salary list there is no one within 41 million of the Yanks. There are 6 teams within 41 million (20 up tp 120 and 20 down to 80) close to the Sox in payroll. Going straight down (100 to 59), there 16 teams.

    It is not that the Sox are poor, they are not. It is just that the Yanks are in a league of their own. The Sox are in the next division of 7 teams. 6 of which are vying for the playoffs (Mess the exception). [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m banging my head against a wall here. We will never change each other&#39;s views. I can&#39;t truncate my morality to make one wrong [i]more wrong [/i]than another. If the Devil Rays are victims here, then can you sit there with a straight face and tell me that the Yankees are the sole reason that they are mired in a non-competitive funk? Do you think they care if they are being outspent by double or 4 times their payroll?

    Look, I know it&#39;s a conveinient argument for Red Sox fans, and if I were the bridesmaid every year, then I would probably feel the same way, but don&#39;t drive your Porche throught the trailer park slum and scold the guy who passes you in a Ferrari.

    BB

  12. #12
    TomShane
    Guest
    Football starts Saturday Morning at 5 AM. Baseball season ends at exactly the same time.

  13. #13
    Forget trying to change each other&#39;s views on this Buffboy...There is irrefutable evidence that NYY is in a "wealth" class unto themselves, then, a few stratospheres down are the Mets, Red Sox, Braves, Mariners, and a handful of others...there is social mobility in this class, the Phillies, Indians, and Dodgers and a handful of others can move in and out on a given year...then there exists the "poor" class, who have virtually no chance to compete...and it is an uphill struggle for the middle class as well. Just like in real life.

    How can a Yankee fan or otherwise argue against this analysis? We have been over this AD NAUSEUM&#33;&#33;&#33; Its almost as if we cover it once, twice, thrice, then NYY fans seem to revert back to square one and we have to cover it all over again again.

    JUST FREAKIN&#39; ADMIT IT...NYY buys rings. So freakin&#39; what?&#33;?&#33; There is nothing illegal about this system created by fat george. He is perfectly within his rights to do so. Lets just not pretend that it is not ruining baseball. Also, lets not be TOO impressed by their recent run of championships. It is, however, OK to be impressed by the modern day sports monopoly that geore sits atop. From a business standpoint, his cutthroat mentality and undying greed has made alot of people rich...including several great players and some mediocre ones as well.

  14. #14
    Jets Insider VIP
    Super*****/Prom Queen

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Italian Riveria in Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    16,580
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 01:20 PM
    [b] Football starts Saturday Morning at 5 AM. Baseball season ends at exactly the same time. [/b][/quote]
    Followed by re-runs of Pee-Wee&#39;s Playhouse&#33; :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I&#39;m with U Shane, and being a Mets fan Saturday can&#39;t come around fast enough&#33; :P

  15. #15
    Maxman
    Guest
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Rockaway Mike+Jul 30 2003, 09:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Rockaway Mike @ Jul 30 2003, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--4HCrew[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 07:52 AM
    [b] Over the past 10 years major league baseball has become a joke...it is bad enough that only half of the teams have a chance to make it to the playoffs every year but now the perennial fire sales before the trade deadline make it a complete joke. And this is coming from a Yankee fan.... why even have 30 something teams? why even print names on the back of jerseys... To me there needs to be some kind of controls where these fire sales cannot happen....let the gms earn their money by signing the right guys in the offseason...and guess what if you screw up...maybe another team will finally get a chance to win a la the KC Royals or Minny Twins...... I would love to know how there are still fans in Cincy,Pitt, Milwaukee.. this game has been destroyed..

    I will continue to watch because I am a Yankee fan and they benefit the most along with Chi and Boston but to me the game is tarnished and once football is in full speed, I could care less.. [/b][/quote]
    Half the teams? Right now, 8 or 9 of the 14 teams in the AL have a realistic shot at the post-season (depending on what you feel about the Angels.) And in the NL, 11 of the 16 teams are in the playoff hunt, and one that isnt (Mets) felt they had a chance coming into this season.

    Does it suck that teams like Detroit and Milwaukee come in to each season with no shot? Yes. But is it MLB&#39;s fault, or the fault of the management of those franchises?

    Can you tell me all 32 teams in the NFL right now have a shot at the playoffs? I won&#39;t even include the expansion team in Houston, but I&#39;d like you to tell a football fan in Arizona, Detroit, Cincy, etc. that they have a shot at postseason glory this season.

    As for the fire sales, do you prefer situations where guys are getting cut left and right because of salary cap reasons? Teams develop their younger players, then watch them leave 2 or 3 years later? Both sports have major problems, but yet I still watch them both. You dont want to, you dont have to. [/b][/quote]
    Great Post RM. Great Post.

  16. #16
    Maxman
    Guest
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Buffboy+Jul 30 2003, 10:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Buffboy @ Jul 30 2003, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--patman[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 09:47 AM
    [b] Baseball lost me when the games started to last 3 hours. A damm Baseball game. I still go to see tha triple a team 2 or three times a year though.

    Now it is the financial situation. When the yankees are allowed to spend more money on the minor leagues/Free agents than some MLB teams something is wrong. on both sides of the spectrum. To make me a fan again

    A cap floor of 60 mill and a ceiling of 120 mill total for all baseball players in all levels. A drafted player is slotted like FB/BB so that teams at the lower end dont pass up the better players because of signablity.

    no arbitration, free agency after 5 years of service, 9 years of proball. [/b][/quote]
    Would you freakin&#39; listen to yourself?&#33; You are so biased and narrow-sighted about this rivalry it&#39;s almost scary.

    It&#39;s easy to label the Yankees as the poster-children for dysfunctional baseball because year after year, "fat" George puts more of his loot into the team than any other owner. That makes it convienient for whiny BoSox fans because it allows them to neatly write off a century of mediocrity and second place finishes.

    But tell me...where do the Red Sox fall on the list of payroll size?

    I&#39;ll tell you...it&#39;s 5th. 5th out of 30. In other word there are 25 teams in MLB spending less than the Red Sox... So can we please stop painting the Fenway F*ck-ups as the poor step-sisters of the AL.

    You aren&#39;t Minny fans or Tampa, or Milwaukee fans who I would say have a legitimate beef...No, you are Red Sox fans, so you don&#39;t . If high payrolls are the crime than the &#036;180M Yankees are guilty, but guess who is sharing a prison cell with them?...the &#036;105M Red Sox.

    BB [/b][/quote]
    In 1996 the Sox were # 2 in payroll right behind the Yankees. How did that year work out?

  17. #17
    Maxman
    Guest
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 12:20 PM
    [b] Football starts Saturday Morning at 5 AM. Baseball season ends at exactly the same time. [/b][/quote]
    Your baseball season ended years ago. The day Steve Phillips was hired.

  18. #18
    TomShane
    Guest
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Limolady+Jul 30 2003, 12:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Limolady @ Jul 30 2003, 12:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TomShane[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 01:20 PM
    [b] Football starts Saturday Morning at 5 AM. Baseball season ends at exactly the same time. [/b][/quote]
    Followed by re-runs of Pee-Wee&#39;s Playhouse&#33; :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I&#39;m with U Shane, and being a Mets fan Saturday can&#39;t come around fast enough&#33; :P [/b][/quote]
    LOL&#33; The Mets will be GREAT (in two seasons). But on Saturday Mo Vaughn, Tom Glavine, Roger Cedeno, Roberto Alomar, Jeromy Burnitz, Mike Stanton, and Armando Benitez will allllllll disappear into the recesses of Mets-loser history where Vince Coleman, Bobby Bonilla, Brett Saberhagen, and Eddie Murray dwell.


    And btw, Pee Wee&#39;s Playhouse was AWESOME&#33; Who amongst us didn&#39;t have their own tin-foil ball?

  19. #19
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Look - the Yankees operate within the system and baseball&#39;s flaws were not created by Steinbrenner. Baseball&#39;s management flaws were created by the owners, the players and the league proper. The Yankees just happen to be the most profitable team and therefore the one most able to spend money on the product. It&#39;s not their fault and if it wasn&#39;t them who were the richest team, it&#39;d be some other team.

    No one can argue that when the games are played in October, the Yankees usually win them. However, having a distinct and irrefutable economic advantage does play a part of the Yankees&#39; success. If they identify problems during a season - they can just throw money at the problem. If the first solution fails, they can throw more money. No other team can do this and year after year, chances are the Yankees will be strong consistently because of the fact that they can plug holes with money and afford to make more mistakes than other clubs.

    People can take snapshot looks at the standings at any given time and try to imply that the playing field is level. Yes, the Yankees won&#39;t win it all every year and their recent run was quite impressive. But their &#036; advantage means that year in and year out they will have a good record and simply get to play in more post-seasons than any other team, thus greatly increasing their chances of winning it all. I mean, since 1994 or so, the Yankees have missed the playoffs, what, once? Haven&#39;t they almost made the playoffs every year for 10 years or so? THAT is where the advantage lies.

    But the Yankees did NOT create nor are to blame for this problem. The players don&#39;t want a salary cap and would strike if one was implemented. Also - there are some owners who simply do not spend enough money - a minimum cap is a sensible idea. The system is broke, so blame all of the participants, NOT the Yankees.

    However, that said, the money advantage DID detract from MY PERSONAL enjoyment of the Yankees, so I decided to switch teams because rooting for a favorite year after year gets old FOR ME. But I can see why others don&#39;t mind.

  20. #20
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane[/i]@Jul 30 2003, 12:20 PM
    [b] Football starts Saturday Morning at 5 AM. Baseball season ends at exactly the same time. [/b][/quote]
    Baseball&#39;s still going on?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us