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Thread: Post all political and war topics here, part 2

  1. #41
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 01:37 PM
    [b] Seriously, dude, I'm embarrassed that I wasted about 1000 pages debating you.

    You gonna camp out 3 days before the election to be the first in line to vote against GWB? [/b][/quote]
    Lets just hope they count all of the votes this time.

    BTW weeb, I don't recall you ever engaging anyone in a debate.

  2. #42
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb+Sep 10 2003, 05:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Spirit of Weeb @ Sep 10 2003, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Sep 9 2003, 03:47 PM
    [b] yes Bush is in the process of screwing America to help out his corporate buddies, his rich friends and the other meatpuppets in his secret clubs like Skull and Bones and the TriLateral Commission. Everyone else can get bent as far as he&#39;s concerned.
    [/b][/quote]
    You forgot the Black Helicopters and the Great Mother Wheel orbiting the Earth.

    Seriously, dude, I&#39;m embarrassed that I wasted about 1000 pages debating you.

    You gonna camp out 3 days before the election to be the first in line to vote against GWB? Go for it, just stop whining already&#33; [/b][/quote]
    LOL...I think the black helicoptors was one of the funniest things I ever heard in my life.

  3. #43
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    hey 5ever i know you choose not to believe in Global Warming (like its some sort of optional set of beliefs) but its a real scientifically PROVEN phenomenon, and even the White House&#39;s own commitee came to that conclusion. Not only is Bush doing nothing about it but his Clear Sky act or whatever its called is basically an affront to all logic. I can&#39;t even go into it cause it will just get me all worked up. Long story short, Corporations do whatever they want and the air gets junked up. Its a fact that America produces something like 50% of the world&#39;s greenhouse gas. So when there are massive heat waves in some small but very real sense, Bush is to blame - i didn&#39;t say he was totally in control of the weather, you took my words completely out of context.

    Weeb you are another one living in a dream land. You don&#39;t want to believe that BUSH is in Skull and Bones? the TriLat? cause he is in all of those clubs and more. There is a certain amount of good old boys to every president (all have been stonemasons for example) but Bush takes it too another level.

    hey you are embarrassed to be debating me, i could say the same thing. YOu both deny facts in favor of what you are told to believe by the leaders you worship like an idol. This spending thing is a perfect example. 5ever in his own words "Bush spends like a drunk in a casino" - yet you still support the man and undoubtedly would vote for him (again). but If Gore was spending like Bush is right now you would have an anurysm. The right would say "he has no plan, typical liberal spending, he is risking American lives unneccesarily, etc etc)" - but when your man does it, that&#39;s kosher.

    Just face it - Bush hasn&#39;t done a single thing for the people of this country since he took office. We have lost 2.7 Million jobs since his inaugeration, the federal deficit will be higher than 500B, the average state deficit is 36B and this guy&#39;s brilliant answer is to push tax cut after tax cut while rebuilding a ****hole sandpit 6000 miles away. Great.

    we spend 87 Billion on Iraq - that&#39;s 3x what the government spends on primary and secondary education. Did you read the quote from the Yale guy? Its ludicrous how quickly the admin is spending, and how little they have to show for it&#33;

    ps- another 2 americans died today for no reason. George Bush has moral clarity alright, the guy is pure evil.

  4. #44
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    5-ever... In light of Bush&#39;s address to the nation Sunday night, I have one question for him.

    Have any WMD&#39;s been found In Iraq?

    No. :(

    Didn&#39;t think so. <_<

    5-ever... its time for you to be a man of your word and face the fact that in March 2003 Iraq did not have significant stockpiles of WMD&#39;s, and that the Bush administration mislead us on this point.

  5. #45
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 01:02 PM
    [b] 5-ever... In light of Bush&#39;s address to the nation Sunday night, I have one question for him.

    Have any WMD&#39;s been found In Iraq?

    No. :(

    Didn&#39;t think so. <_<

    5-ever... its time for you to be a man of your word and face the fact that in March 2003 Iraq did not have significant stockpiles of WMD&#39;s, and that the Bush administration mislead us on this point. [/b][/quote]
    Tail - I will not face up to something I don&#39;t believe in.

    The burden of proof was on Saddam. We knew he had them and that they were unaccounted for. &#39;We&#39; meaning the entire world. If he did not have any, he should have complied with UN resolutions. All he had to do was prove he didn&#39;t have any and he would not have been invaded. He said he didn&#39;t have Al-Samoud missile and it turned out he did.

    The "Where are the WMD?" question was precisely the question Saddam was to answer and he didn&#39;t. To assume that Saddam had destroyed them but forgot to tell anyone is assinine. What happened to them? If they aren&#39;t in Iraq, where are they? If he gave them to terrorists, he would have continued to do so had he remained in power. Your rants are typical and short-sighted.

    I have been consistent on this issue through three separate presidential admins, both Dme and GOP. Somehting tells me if this were 1998 you&#39;d be cheering Billy saying "inspections don;t work, we know he has them, we need to attack regardless of what the UN says" just like Billy did. You are all about partisanship and not about principle. If you are, you&#39;d tell me Billy was wrong to attack and Billy lied to the nation about Sadaam&#39;s WMDs. Cause if Bush lied, Billy lied cause&#39;s it&#39;s the same friggin WMD&#39;s they are talking about&#33;


    I have gone over this ad nauseoum and owe you nothing. If you&#39;d like to talk about the Dem debate last night, fine, I watche dit and have opinions. But I will not be lectured about something in which I have complete credibility and consistency, regardless of which pary is in power.

    BTW - I though Kerry did well for himself last night, I though Dean was OK if unspectacular, that Gpe was way to aggressive and essentially socialist, that Lieb was his usual sensible but boring self and that no one cares about the others, save for Sharpton who is always good for a quote, even though no one takes his candiacy seriously.

    Bush did not mislead anyone. He said the British government has learned that Saddam sought uranium. If you&#39;d pay attention, you&#39;d know that the British government stands by that assertion today and it was based on more than that document that turned out to be forged. Bush did not appeal solely to the authority of that document and didn&#39;t even mention it. The intel these guys use to make decisions is not in the public forum, it classified. You are grasping....

  6. #46
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    5ever what about if this war precipitates those WMD going to terrorists - previously Saddam may or may not have had them but he wasn&#39;t using them... however in the power vacuum what if these weapons reach the wrong hands, in short Bush would have made the world MORE dangerous for America, not less

    RE: the democrats, Wesley Clark needs to run, cause i don&#39;t like any of these horses.

  7. #47
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    5-ever... The whole rationale for the invasion of Iraq was the so-called WMD&#39;s. Clearly everyone but you and the rest of Bush&#39;s acolytes can see that in March 2003 Iraq didn&#39;t have significant WMD&#39;s.

    Wake up and smell the coffee dude you were scammed by the &#39;ol bait and switch.

    Yes you have been consistant on this topic unfortunatly you&#39;ve been consistantly wrong. Put your pride aside man.

  8. #48
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    id make a post to emphasis that point but apparently im too ridiculous to debate with

  9. #49
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    That&#39;s ok 5-ever. I understand. Just consider yourself schooled my friend.

  10. #50
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 01:52 PM
    [b] id make a post to emphasis that point but apparently im too ridiculous to debate with [/b][/quote]
    How do we know he wasn;t giving his WMD prior to the war or would have without the war? If he used them, he&#39;d SURELY be invaded. We KNEW he had them. Obviously, then, he could easily distribute them, even without Bush threatening invasion.

    The notion that (1) he had them but wasn;t going to ever use or distribute them or that he (2) didn&#39;t have them is ridicluous and inconsistent with history and not worth debating.

    Again, Tail - I want you to think and answer this question and stop posting Bush-bash talking points?

    We knew he had them. Where did they go? If he destoryed them, why didn&#39;t he tell anyone, prove it, get sanctions lifted and spare his sons lives and possibly his own? Does he not like being power?

    Bitonti - I do think Bush spends way too much. He is very Big Government and it pisses me off. I DIDN&#39;T VOTE FOR HIM IN 2000&#33;&#33;&#33; IMO, spending for the war in Iraq is a good decision. You know I do and have believed this.

    I supoprted taking Saddam out prior to 9-11. I am not ALWAYS a hawk, but IMO Afganistan and Iraq needed to happen. If Bush were to say he was invading somewhere else and wanted big money, I would be skeptical and would want to learn more about the situation, I do not blindly follow him.

    Typically during times of war, this country has cut back on other spending, however Bush has totally not done that at all. His tax cuts, however, are not "tailored to the rich" as you claim. The rich pay most of the taxes in this country, ANY tax cut benefits them. This is math, not politics.

    That said, it IS poor planning to spend on war, not cut spending on "butter" during the war and then cut taxes. I agree that this is poor long-term planning. My advice would be to cut the spending on the butter. Bush did not do this because he (1) knows GOPers like tax cuts and (2) thought that they would stimulate growth and thus negate a perceived political weakness leaing up to 2004. The growth (short term and mean-reverting, IMO) has been tepid so far and you all knnow my opinions about Presidents and LONG TERM ficals effects.

    I will say I am quite disappointed in Bush&#39;s spending. If we wage war, we can&#39;t INCREASE government spending AND cut taxes. That is bad business...admitted and stipulated.

    Right now, Bush has my vote because I DO take the threat of of terror seriously and do trust him with it. However, my vote is not a given and Bush&#39;s continued sprending spree violates my conservative philosophy, as do annoying things like his cavings on AA, etc.

    I watched the debates last night, I try to be open minded. Aside from Iraq and overall questions about Bush&#39;s "evilness" I am not a crony of his nor are we that far off.

    Bitonti - lastly, Global Warming is FAR from a decided issue. The old head of Greenpeace has admitted that the Green movement creates catastrophies to illicit help and force their agenda. Tens of thousands of scientists have signed petitions disavowing belief in GW. Many theories, such as the movements of sun spots, have been put forth to account for fluctuating tempuratures. I simply disagree here and would even if it meant I was in the "liberal" side.

  11. #51
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 03:20 PM
    [b] Again, Tail - I want you to think and answer this question and stop posting Bush-bash talking points?

    We knew he had them. Where did they go? If he destoryed them, why didn&#39;t he tell anyone, prove it, get sanctions lifted and spare his sons lives and possibly his own? Does he not like being power?

    [/b][/quote]
    We knew he dad them. Where did they go?

    Gee 5-ever... perhaps that&#39;s a question Bush or you ought take a crack at since you guys so strongly supported the invasion to disarm Iraq.

    5-ever... As far as the rest of your question, I can&#39;t put myself in the mind of Saddam Hussein. The only answer anyone could give to your question would be nothing more than pure speculation.

    While its perfectly understandable that you&#39;d rather focus on specualtion than on reality given the fact that you&#39;ve been consistantly wrong since February 2003, I on the other hand will only deal with facts. And fact #1 which you need to come to terms with is that in March 2003 Iraq didn&#39;t possess any significant amount of WMD&#39;s.

  12. #52
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    BTW its been two years since that SOB Usama bin Laden orchestrated the criminal attacks of September 2001.

    I still want that bastards head in a bowling bag.

  13. #53
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    Tail - you are worth nothing but talking points. I have been consistently right, by the way.

    We have not found any yet, we very well may. The world knewn he had them. The question of where they went was HIS burden to answer. You do not admit this even though you know it to be true and you are worthless as a debater because of your constant and pervasive partisanship. Clearly, you read talking points and parrot them and are unable to function in a flowing debate.

    Way to not address anything of substance in my posts. Just keep repeating your tired mantra. The UN declared that he had them in late 2002. Where are they? Well, all he had to do was explain this issue, prove his assertions, but he did not. You know this and are just trying feebly to score points. Keep convincing yourself you are &#39;schooling&#39; me or whatever.

    You are nothing more than an unprincipled chirping bird. Why do you like Kerry so much, he votes to authorize this war? Spare me the uranium crapola about Kerry being deceived, that SOU address that contained the reference to uranium was given months after Kerry voted. You have no consistency of principle. I know Bitonti doesn;t care about that, but I do and I am sorry, but it is cowardly.

  14. #54
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 03:03 PM
    [b] BTW its been two years since that SOB Usama bin Laden orchestrated the criminal attacks of September 2001.

    I still want that bastards head in a bowling bag. [/b][/quote]
    So he&#39;s not a terrorist, but a criminal?

    So do I, and so does George Bush.

    You are a cartoon character, Tail. A funny one, though ;)

  15. #55
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by SoFlaJets[/i]@Sep 8 2003, 01:03 PM
    [b]- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    By Kristen Breitweiser

    Sept. 8, 2003 |

    The film "DC 9/11: Time of Crisis," which premiered Sunday night on Showtime, is a mind-numbingly boring, revisionist, two-hour-long wish list of how 9/11 might have gone if we had real leaders in the current administration. This film is rated half of a fighter jet -- since that is about what we got for our nation&#39;s defense on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.

    Bush is a man of action; in fact, he is an action hero. Except, of course, when it really counts, like in those early morning hours when this country was under attack and our Commander in Chief was drinking milk and eating cookies with second graders. Can you imagine one of those second-graders years from now when they are asked where they were on the morning of 9/11? They will simply say, "I was sitting with the President reading him a story."[/b][/quote]
    While I am sorry for this women&#39;s loss, as I am for the loss I suffered and and the relatives of the other 3000 people who lost loved one ons 9/11 I would like to ask her one thing....does she really think Clinton was able to wash all the blood off of [i]his[/i] hands from two years ago??

  16. #56
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Sep 10 2003, 04:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever @ Sep 10 2003, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tailgators[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 03:03 PM
    [b] BTW its been two years since that SOB Usama bin Laden orchestrated the criminal attacks of September 2001.

    I still want that bastards head in a bowling bag. [/b][/quote]
    So he&#39;s not a terrorist, but a criminal?

    So do I, and so does George Bush.

    You are a cartoon character, Tail. A funny one, though ;) [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m with ya&#39;....I support the President but to my mind he has not inflicted enough punishment against these bastards&#33;

  17. #57
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 04:05 PM
    [b] Tail - you are worth nothing but talking points. I have been consistently right, by the way.

    We have not found any yet, we very well may. The world knewn he had them. The question of where they went was HIS burden to answer. You do not admit this even though you know it to be true and you are worthless as a debater because of your constant and pervasive partisanship. Clearly, you read talking points and parrot them and are unable to function in a flowing debate.

    Way to not address anything of substance in my posts. Just keep repeating your tired mantra. The UN declared that he had them in late 2002. Where are they? Well, all he had to do was explain this issue, prove his assertions, but he did not. You know this and are just trying feebly to score points. Keep convincing yourself you are &#39;schooling&#39; me or whatever.

    You are nothing more than an unprincipled chirping bird. [/b][/quote]
    Typical hostility from a consistantly wrong person.

    Clearly the strain of being so awfully wrong all the time is getting to you.

    If you&#39;d ever post substance I&#39;d address it. The problem is 5-ever that your posts are as long as a speech by Fidel Castro and they&#39;re usually just as devoid of substsance.

    I&#39;ve lost a lot of respect for you man.

    5-ever... if you believe for a moment that if Saddam suddenly as you might say "came clean" that that would have avoided this whole mess. Well my friend, I know of a nice little bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn that&#39;s available and you seem like just the right guy to buy it.

    Chirp on my friend.

  18. #58
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 01:51 PM
    [b] BTW weeb, I don&#39;t recall you ever engaging anyone in a debate. [/b][/quote]
    Go back and have your mom and re-read it to you.

  19. #59
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    Tail - what have I been wrong about? He HAD them, the world knew this. Removing him was the right decision in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003. It still is.

    There were no massive retaliations domestically, no millions of refugess, no tens of thousands of civilian deaths, not thousands and thousands of American deaths. No complete destabilization of the entire region.

    Iraqis that did not profit from Saddam&#39;s regime are busy working to construct a gov&#39;t. His supporters and the terrorists who he OBVIOUSLY SUPPORTED annd worked with are still waging a battle in Baghdad. This battle is still going on and we will win it. The north and south are largely stable and improving.

    Keep harping on the "where are the WMD." Saddam had 12 years to answer this question, and he did not.

    Believe me, your respect is not important or relevant. Yes, Americans are dying, but you don&#39;t believe in the cause and never have. IMO, it is worth the sacrifice.

    Look back on this thread, I (and many others) have laughably schooled you and Bit on this issue time and time again. It&#39;s not even close.

  20. #60
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 04:03 PM
    [b] BTW its been two years since that SOB Usama bin Laden orchestrated the criminal attacks of September 2001.

    I still want that bastards head in a bowling bag. [/b][/quote]
    Maybe your pals at the UN will catch him .... or President Al Sharpton?

    What an absolute joke you are.

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