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Thread: Post all political and war topics here, part 2

  1. #61
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb+Sep 10 2003, 03:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Spirit of Weeb @ Sep 10 2003, 03:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tailgators[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 04:03 PM
    [b] BTW its been two years since that SOB Usama bin Laden orchestrated the criminal attacks of September 2001.

    I still want that bastards head in a bowling bag. [/b][/quote]
    Maybe your pals at the UN will catch him .... or President Al Sharpton?

    What an absolute joke you are. [/b][/quote]
    No, Weeb, He&#39;s fiercely against the war on principle, yet he supports Kerry who voted to authorize it. Makes sense to me :blink: <_< :o

  2. #62
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 04:38 PM
    [b] No, Weeb, He&#39;s fiercely against the war on principle, yet he supports Kerry who voted to authorize it. Makes sense to me :blink: <_< :o [/b][/quote]
    Bottom line is that if his guys had taken care of bin Laden (like President Bush did with the future threat of Saddam Hussein), 2500+ of his fellow human beings would be alive today.

    And that is all the debate on this subject I need to participate in.

  3. #63
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    weeb, 5-ever... You guys remind me of those Japaneese soldiers they found hiding on those remote islands in the South Pacific years after the war was over.

    Because in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary you&#39;ll never give in on your original pre-conceptions.

    5-ever... the only thing your open-minded about is wigs. weeb... you&#39;re mindless so we don&#39;t have to worry about you having an open mind.

  4. #64
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    weeb talks about 2500 fellow human beings... what about the 3200 Iraqi civilians that AP reported died in the war? what about the 10k Iraqi soldiers killed? What about the 270+ allied casualties to date? Weeb you don&#39;t care about fellow human beings you only care about what Georgey Porgy said so you can turn it into your mantra of the week.

    5ever - removing Saddam&#39;s WMD was never a high priority for this nation&#39;s success, survival or anywhere in between. Saudi Arabia has WMD out the wazoo - North Korea has NUKES yet all we do is threaten them with diplomacy. Pakistan is nuclear and a terrorist stronghold, but they are now FRIENDS&#33;

    the idea of WMD was vastly overblown. In this world its easier to count the countries that DON&#39;T have WMD than those that do.

    Flat out Saddam could have had WMD for the next 4 decades and it wouldn&#39;t have been an issue. Bush MADE IRAQ the issue - left to its own devices it would have continued to be what it is today - a rundown banana republic filled with ignorance, hatred and fear. But that&#39;s not the US&#39;s problem and it never was.

  5. #65
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 05:36 PM
    [b] weeb talks about 2500 fellow human beings... what about the 3200 Iraqi civilians that AP reported died in the war? what about the 10k Iraqi soldiers killed? What about the 270+ allied casualties to date? Weeb you don&#39;t care about fellow human beings you only care about what Georgey Porgy said so you can turn it into your mantra of the week.

    5ever - removing Saddam&#39;s WMD was never a high priority for this nation&#39;s success, survival or anywhere in between. Saudi Arabia has WMD out the wazoo - North Korea has NUKES yet all we do is threaten them with diplomacy. Pakistan is nuclear and a terrorist stronghold, but they are now FRIENDS&#33;

    the idea of WMD was vastly overblown. In this world its easier to count the countries that DON&#39;T have WMD than those that do.

    Flat out Saddam could have had WMD for the next 4 decades and it wouldn&#39;t have been an issue. Bush MADE IRAQ the issue - left to its own devices it would have continued to be what it is today - a rundown banana republic filled with ignorance, hatred and fear. But that&#39;s not the US&#39;s problem and it never was. [/b][/quote]
    Bitonti you are far too sensitive to this. You are right on about your points but the guys you are talking to just don&#39;t care. The fact is that this war in Iraq is not about WMD or terrorism. It is about Haliburton earnings and covering the trail that leads to War crime convictions of George Bush Sr., Donald Rumsfeld, Cheney and Powell. All of the lowlifes that I just mentioned are war criminals in waiting as they knowingly provided banned chemical weapons to Hussein and their lack of knowledge of the uses and widespread devastation caused by use of those weapons is not a legal excuse.

    C&#39;mon if this war was about WMD then Goerge AWOL would have gone into North Korea to kick their ass. Furthermore, if this war was truly about terrorism then he would have gone into Saudi Arabia to kick some ass. However, AWOL can&#39;t do that as it would mess up relations with some of the biggest investors in Bush Sr.&#39;s Carlyle fund.

    I am for a good old fashioned American asskicking of the bad guys but when some of the roots of evil is in Washington then that puts our guys in a precarious position over there. The guys who benefit from a prolonged presence and tension in that region are oil and oil related companies not the American Public and unfortunately those companies have strong ties to this administration. So whether you like it or not this occupation will need to last a long time to satisfy the big oil constituents of this administration.

  6. #66
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    bitonti- that&#39;s good thinking, sort of the blowjob bill clinton way of doing business, you know, let&#39;s stick our heads in the sand and wait around until they hit us and when they do, let&#39;s just throw a handful of firecrackers back at &#39;em and hope for the best. Its&#39; hysterical everytime blowjob bill or anyone else criticizes the President for the way he&#39;s fighting the war on terror...at least he&#39;s fighting it rather than sitting around getting blowjobs from interns&#33;


    [i]Flat out Saddam could have had WMD for the next 4 decades and it wouldn&#39;t have been an issue. Bush MADE IRAQ the issue - left to its own devices it would have continued to be what it is today - a rundown banana republic filled with ignorance, hatred and fear. But that&#39;s not the US&#39;s problem and it never was. [/i]

    Sadly, that&#39;s what Afgahnastan was for the decade of the 90&#39;s...too bad blowjob bill didn&#39;t make that an issue, then tommorow would not be such a terrible day. Could Saddam have used WMD on the US? Probably not directly...would he use them on the US if he could? If you say "no" you are a naive idiot.

    The fact is you have to make a stand somewhere or all this sh&#33;t is going to continue...had Jimmy Carter taken a stand in &#39;79 against Iran the flickering flame would&#39;ve been doused back then but Carter was a puke and he let a decrepid old man in Tehran decide America&#39;s every next move and look at the situation we are in now.

    Is it any coincidence that terrorists of all type and groups are descending upon Iraq if it wasn&#39;t such a big issue? There will always be a struggle of good against evil and any nations or extremists that say Barbie Dolls are decadent yet in the same breath stone women to death because they have a child out of wed-lock two years after they were divorced-or-sentence the sister of a man who had sex out of class to be gang raped (both verified cases) needs to be exterminated from the earth&#33;

  7. #67
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    hey come back either drop the bomb and kill everyone in the middle east or just leave em the hell alone. What really sucks is where we are right nowa slow dance to nowhere. Reconstruction are you crappin me? the place has been in ruins for years. and it will take alot more than 87B to fix that ****hole. Its like taking your money and flushing it straight down the toilet. we could have rebuilt the WTC 10 times with the amount of effort that has gone into this war. Think about it. 140,000 men and 150 BILLION dollars... and counting?&#33; You worried about terrorism put missles on every tall building in America it will cost less than "democratization" - s**t make em SDI star wars missles for all i care. That would have a better shot at working than this war.

    Outsider that&#39;s pretty much what its all about. Oil and oil related interests. the f-ed up thing is i can respect that on some level. What i don&#39;t respect is bull**** liars and their bull**** excuses. and i don&#39;t love Clinton but he&#39;s a

    the middle east and the western world are at odds, and as nice as it might seem to have Iraq be a shining beacon for democracy ya gotta have priorties

    no ones talking about the fact that afghanistan is still a terrorist stronghold, nothing has changed at all outside the cities. We can debate the morality of the deed till whenever - the bottom line is the methods are all flawed, and the chances of ultimate success, as PNAC theorizes is VERY doubtful.

    you got 2 choices, NUKE EM or leave em the hell alone

    Carlyle Group seriously google it - its not a benevolent exersize and im pretty sure the Bin Ladin family is invested.

    Bush and Bin Ladin... together... awwww group hug everyone

    Middle eastern politics is so f--ked - don&#39;t believe me, open a history book sometime this s**t all went down before in the 50&#39;s in Iran with Schrawtzkof&#39;s(sp) dad.... and it happened with the British throughout the first half of the century.

    the arabs are the native americans of the new millinium and oil is their "land" - we have 140,000 and change deployed for no other benefit than the expedient access to oil. Some individuals get paid but as a people they get nothing. Beads and Blankets. Meanwhile we are chugging along producing all of the world&#39;s greenhouse gases and making all the money, living the life.

    break it down, that&#39;s the core componets of the situation. Israel is the outpost. The barbie doll propoghanda is so damn perfect - its like we are putting the Middle east in a sleeper hold of consumerism and they just don&#39;t want to go gently like the rest of the world. They like their backward ass lives. They don&#39;t want malls and Nike and Budweiser and the Marlboro man like the damn asians. They want to be left the hell alone. Too bad for them cause we need oil and its all there. Ironically the monster we have created in China is going to need resources as well... to put a car in a billion garages of cource.

    and its not just "cars" and "oil" its a whole lifestyle. Its f--kin human nature and its why this thread is a million pages long and no one changes their minds. Some people accept the BS and arrange their life around them and some people don&#39;t. there are apologists and alarmists just like on the rest of the JI site.

    Hey fWiW i think the US will be successful no matter what and things aren&#39;t all that bad from a big picture perspective. Its the ignorance that i can&#39;t stand. Call it the freakin WAR FOR AFGHANI GAS AND IRAQI OIL at least it makes sense. DOn&#39;t insult the intelligence of an entire nation.

  8. #68
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    [b][i]Outsider that&#39;s pretty much what its all about. Oil and oil related interests. the f-ed up thing is i can respect that on some level. What i don&#39;t respect is bull**** liars and their bull**** excuses. [/i][/b]

    That&#39;s funny because saying this war was about oil, or Haliburton, or etc is a bull**** excuse of not facing the truth.

    [b][i]you got 2 choices, NUKE EM or leave em the hell alone[/i][/b]

    Well let&#39;s look at history the past ten years.....blowjob bill clinton left them alone for ten years even though they comitted terrorists acts against America and where did that get us....so that only leaves one choice.

    I guarentee you this; if every American was allowed to mail in a ballot and check off one of the following:

    I would:

    1- like to negotiate with mid-eastern nations

    or

    2- I&#39;d like the American military to turn the middle east into one big parking lot

    I think we all know what the overwhelming majority would vote for&#33;&#33;&#33;

  9. #69
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by outsider+Sep 10 2003, 07:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (outsider @ Sep 10 2003, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 05:36 PM
    [b] weeb talks about 2500 fellow human beings... what about the 3200 Iraqi civilians that AP reported died in the war? what about the 10k Iraqi soldiers killed? What about the 270+ allied casualties to date? Weeb you don&#39;t care about fellow human beings you only care about what Georgey Porgy said so you can turn it into your mantra of the week.

    5ever - removing Saddam&#39;s WMD was never a high priority for this nation&#39;s success, survival or anywhere in between. Saudi Arabia has WMD out the wazoo - North Korea has NUKES yet all we do is threaten them with diplomacy. Pakistan is nuclear and a terrorist stronghold, but they are now FRIENDS&#33;

    the idea of WMD was vastly overblown. In this world its easier to count the countries that DON&#39;T have WMD than those that do.

    Flat out Saddam could have had WMD for the next 4 decades and it wouldn&#39;t have been an issue. Bush MADE IRAQ the issue - left to its own devices it would have continued to be what it is today - a rundown banana republic filled with ignorance, hatred and fear. But that&#39;s not the US&#39;s problem and it never was. [/b][/quote]
    Bitonti you are far too sensitive to this. You are right on about your points but the guys you are talking to just don&#39;t care. The fact is that this war in Iraq is not about WMD or terrorism. It is about Haliburton earnings and covering the trail that leads to War crime convictions of George Bush Sr., Donald Rumsfeld, Cheney and Powell. All of the lowlifes that I just mentioned are war criminals in waiting as they knowingly provided banned chemical weapons to Hussein and their lack of knowledge of the uses and widespread devastation caused by use of those weapons is not a legal excuse.

    C&#39;mon if this war was about WMD then Goerge AWOL would have gone into North Korea to kick their ass. Furthermore, if this war was truly about terrorism then he would have gone into Saudi Arabia to kick some ass. However, AWOL can&#39;t do that as it would mess up relations with some of the biggest investors in Bush Sr.&#39;s Carlyle fund.

    I am for a good old fashioned American asskicking of the bad guys but when some of the roots of evil is in Washington then that puts our guys in a precarious position over there. The guys who benefit from a prolonged presence and tension in that region are oil and oil related companies not the American Public and unfortunately those companies have strong ties to this administration. So whether you like it or not this occupation will need to last a long time to satisfy the big oil constituents of this administration.[/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m sure you had the same sentiments towards blowjob bill clinton&#39;s administration as he was illegally bombing Kosovo and circumvented the [b]U[/b](seless) [b]N[/b](otion) to kill people in that area of the world...right??&#33;&#33;

  10. #70
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 05:36 PM
    [b] weeb talks about 2500 fellow human beings... what about the 3200 Iraqi civilians that AP reported died in the war? what about the 10k Iraqi soldiers killed? What about the 270+ allied casualties to date? Weeb you don&#39;t care about fellow human beings you only care about what Georgey Porgy said so you can turn it into your mantra of the week.

    5ever - removing Saddam&#39;s WMD was never a high priority for this nation&#39;s success, survival or anywhere in between. Saudi Arabia has WMD out the wazoo - North Korea has NUKES yet all we do is threaten them with diplomacy. Pakistan is nuclear and a terrorist stronghold, but they are now FRIENDS&#33;

    the idea of WMD was vastly overblown. In this world its easier to count the countries that DON&#39;T have WMD than those that do.

    Flat out Saddam could have had WMD for the next 4 decades and it wouldn&#39;t have been an issue. Bush MADE IRAQ the issue - left to its own devices it would have continued to be what it is today - a rundown banana republic filled with ignorance, hatred and fear. But that&#39;s not the US&#39;s problem and it never was. [/b][/quote]
    bitonti - try and keep OUR 2500+ out of your anti-bush ranting. many of us are new yorkers. some of us lost loved ones and really don&#39;t care to have you use them as a prop counterweight to american atrocities. ok?

    you&#39;re going to bat for iraq? no proof? are we in american court here? innocent until proven guilty?

    well saddam is guilty of poison gassing their own people. (there&#39;s your WMD)
    they found evidence of aircraft hijacking camps there. (that&#39;s 9/11 enough for me. no la juries needed here pal)

    hussein&#39;s aggression started the mighty bloody iran/iraq war. i only mention it because you&#39;ll whine over the death of soldiers that were trying to kill americans. (never mind if you ****ing will for a minute why we were there).

    you make some points here and there, but, you and liberals like you are so hot to win (be it political points in arguments or political office) you weaken america.

    opposing the war while it is on is UNPATRIOTIC.

    unbelievable are depths you (and yours) slink.

  11. #71
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    Well said sackdance....

    I lost a friend on that day and I am as pissed as I am sad: [url=http://www.fdnyrescue3.com/911/spor.html]http://www.fdnyrescue3.com/911/spor.html[/url]

  12. #72
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    Im truly sorry for both of your losses.

    still your tragedies have nothing to do with Iraq.

    Hate me call me a scumbag there is what is right and what is wrong.

    there is the truth and there is bull****. Learn history&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

    Saddam gassed his people two years before this meeting with US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

    [img]http://content.miw.com.sg/LifeStyle/Military/Images/fall_of_saddam.jpg[/img]

    but that&#39;s besides the argument

    what no one wants to see is that big picture this has been building since FDR made his deal with House of Saud for oil... since the British conquered Bagdhad in 1910&#39;s... since the crusades... the roman empire.

    9-11 has nothing to do with this war except it is an excuse.

    hey i don&#39;t blame you guys- id be in denial too. It was messed up.

    BUt i don&#39;t want it to happen again, do you?

    You want to stop terrorism, this isn&#39;t the way to do it.

    The only way out is isolationism or kill them all. Nothing else will add up. The islamic peoples are too backassward to accept democracy in the form that Wolfowitz and Cheney want them too. Its been constant warfare for 2000 years yet we think we can sort it out in a couple? in ten? twenty?

    Bull**** my friends, and frankly i don&#39;t think its worth the effort.

    There are a billion Muslims in the world and about 85% of em hate the USA.

    Nuke em or let em be, that&#39;s the only easy way. Bush is leading this country down the road of a struggle that will surely last years, and will not yield anything positive for the American people. There are people dead from 9-11 yes and that&#39;s sad but there&#39;s nothing we can do for those people. We can only look ahead and be smart. When you exploit an entire region for oil over a cource of 80 years, some s**t is gonna hit the fan sooner or later. Bush is in there mixin it up but in reality you&#39;d have better luck going after an ant pile with your loafer.

    I applaud the motives and the character of the men in the field. What i do not applaud is the plan. Is there :blink: even a plan???

  13. #73
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    What about the report that I&#39;ve been talking about for some time nowthat is finally seeing the light of day-the one about Bush allowing the BinLaden family to fly out of the USA back to Saudi Arabia when all other air traffic was stopped right after 9/11?Tell me that one doesn&#39;t smell of collusion...how could anybody be totally sure that there weren&#39;t terrorists on those planes.The FBI wasn&#39;t allowed to question them or if they did they sure didn&#39;t have much time to do a thorough screening--typical Bush.BTW the Bin Ladens are in business with Poppy Bush and James A BakerIII in the Carlysle group.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 08:30 PM
    [b] [b][i]Outsider that&#39;s pretty much what its all about. Oil and oil related interests. the f-ed up thing is i can respect that on some level. What i don&#39;t respect is bull**** liars and their bull**** excuses. [/i][/b]

    That&#39;s funny because saying this war was about oil, or Haliburton, or etc is a bull**** excuse of not facing the truth.

    [b][i]you got 2 choices, NUKE EM or leave em the hell alone[/i][/b]

    Well let&#39;s look at history the past ten years.....blowjob bill clinton left them alone for ten years even though they comitted terrorists acts against America and where did that get us....so that only leaves one choice.

    I guarentee you this; if every American was allowed to mail in a ballot and check off one of the following:

    I would:

    1- like to negotiate with mid-eastern nations

    or

    2- I&#39;d like the American military to turn the middle east into one big parking lot

    I think we all know what the overwhelming majority would vote for&#33;&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Dude, you seem way too occupied about Bill Clinton&#39;s blowjob. I guess you spend alot of your time fantasizing about a fat intern giving you a blowjob.

    The fact remains that the blowjob has nothing to do with the situation we have right now.

    The fact is that you and alot of uneducated fools would like to turn the Middle East into a parking lot just because you are clinging to the emotion of they hit us so lets hit them.

    The harsh reality is that we allowed this to happen. The CIA and FBI knew that Atta and his friends were here and they knew what they were doing here, yet guys like Tenet are still running the CIA. Any good patriotic american should be wanting to punish some of the asses that allowed this atrocity to happen in the first place. Why are these guys still employed and why are they not being investigated and in some cases imprisoned.

    Furthermore, this is not about negotiating with the middle eastern nations. They are not all responsible for 9-11. The terrorist networks and cells are as underground as the Mafia was. Except these guys are lurking out there like trained CIA agents stalking their prey. The reference to the CIA is that Bush Sr. unknowingly created Alquaeda by giving bin Laden and his supporters CIA level training. Many of those supporters are jailbirds from Iraq and Iran. Furthermore, they created a gang/cause for Angry Middle Easterners who have been slighted by some of our policies in that part of the world.

    Instead of fighting these guys behind the scenes, we decided to engage in a flat out occupational war. Had we fought behind the scenes with these guys then we would have abetter chance for saving face with the rest of the world and we would spend alot less money. Instead we go to War and bomb the hell out of areas that have resulted in thousands of civilian casualties which will increase the hatred that will help the terrorist movement grow throughout the world.

    Those funds that were spent on bombs, munitions and fuel could have been spent on credits for the utility industry to expand the outdated powergrid. The really sad thing is that when we had that blackout a couple of weeks ago. The assclowns in charge of homeland security did not put the nation on alert. You would think that the assclowns in Washington would have been on high alert for a terrorist act. Think about how vulnerable we were a couple of weeks ago&#33;&#33;&#33;

    Even George AWOL knows that the powergrid is old and that rolling blackouts can and will occur more often in the future. With this in mind we can have the poor mentality and say we should go bomb the hell out of them over there, but the fact remains that we are very vulnerable to an attack the next time we get another blackout. Furthermore, another blackout is a reality not a possibility. The question is when will that next blackout happen and what is George AWOL gonna do about it besides find a way to give a contract to Haliburton.

  15. #75
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by outsider+Sep 10 2003, 06:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (outsider @ Sep 10 2003, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Sep 10 2003, 05:36 PM
    [b] weeb talks about 2500 fellow human beings... what about the 3200 Iraqi civilians that AP reported died in the war? what about the 10k Iraqi soldiers killed? What about the 270+ allied casualties to date? Weeb you don&#39;t care about fellow human beings you only care about what Georgey Porgy said so you can turn it into your mantra of the week.

    5ever - removing Saddam&#39;s WMD was never a high priority for this nation&#39;s success, survival or anywhere in between. Saudi Arabia has WMD out the wazoo - North Korea has NUKES yet all we do is threaten them with diplomacy. Pakistan is nuclear and a terrorist stronghold, but they are now FRIENDS&#33;

    the idea of WMD was vastly overblown. In this world its easier to count the countries that DON&#39;T have WMD than those that do.

    Flat out Saddam could have had WMD for the next 4 decades and it wouldn&#39;t have been an issue. Bush MADE IRAQ the issue - left to its own devices it would have continued to be what it is today - a rundown banana republic filled with ignorance, hatred and fear. But that&#39;s not the US&#39;s problem and it never was. [/b][/quote]
    Bitonti you are far too sensitive to this. You are right on about your points but the guys you are talking to just don&#39;t care. The fact is that this war in Iraq is not about WMD or terrorism. It is about Haliburton earnings and covering the trail that leads to War crime convictions of George Bush Sr., Donald Rumsfeld, Cheney and Powell. All of the lowlifes that I just mentioned are war criminals in waiting as they knowingly provided banned chemical weapons to Hussein and their lack of knowledge of the uses and widespread devastation caused by use of those weapons is not a legal excuse.

    C&#39;mon if this war was about WMD then Goerge AWOL would have gone into North Korea to kick their ass. Furthermore, if this war was truly about terrorism then he would have gone into Saudi Arabia to kick some ass. However, AWOL can&#39;t do that as it would mess up relations with some of the biggest investors in Bush Sr.&#39;s Carlyle fund.

    I am for a good old fashioned American asskicking of the bad guys but when some of the roots of evil is in Washington then that puts our guys in a precarious position over there. The guys who benefit from a prolonged presence and tension in that region are oil and oil related companies not the American Public and unfortunately those companies have strong ties to this administration. So whether you like it or not this occupation will need to last a long time to satisfy the big oil constituents of this administration. [/b][/quote]
    Uhh, guys, 60,000 Iraqi civilians were dying every year under the UN sanctions, which would have remained had we not invaded. The 3000 that died in the war are considerably less than that.

    To refresh your memories - these sanctions were imposed after a war that Saddam started and lost. They would have been lifted had Saddam adhered to the terms of the cease-fire, which he had twelve years to do and did not choose to. He chose this war, and his actions are the reason why so many Iraqi civilans died.

    Bitonti and Outsider can try to take the moral high ground all they want when they express "concern" about Iraqi children or Iraqi "soldiers." I think it&#39;s funny that Iraqi "soldiers" are responsible for killing far more Iraqi civilans than this war is.

    The 60,000 figure is UN&#39;s, not mine and not America&#39;s. It does not account for the murders, tortures and other atrocities were are only now verifying as occurred, though we long knew about. This does not either include the thousands of Shia who were butchered after the UN pulled out of the 1991 war and Saddam (and his "soldiers" exacted revenge) Why did we pull out then? Because the "international community" wanted us to, in the name of regional stability and Iraq&#39;s "sovreignty." Clearly, Saddam didn;t respect Kuwait&#39;s sovreignty. The UN gives democratic rights to regimes that don&#39;t afford those same rights to their own people. Additiopnally, ALL of the Kurds presently in Iraq woulds have been butchered in the years after 1991 if it weren&#39;t for the daily and tirelsss courage of our pilots and their endless patrolling of the no floy zones, always being shot at by Saddam (in further breach of his cease-fire agreement).

    So please Bitonti and Outsider- continue to de-value the lost American lives from 9/11 and express "concern" for civilians who you don&#39;t care about. If you did, you&#39;d realize that the Iraqi lives lost in this war actually will end up saving lives in the future. You conern for the soldiers is particularly ignorant and appalling.

    Arguing with you people on this subject is pointless. You care only about scoring political points out of a short-term frustration borne because of your personal animus towards the current administration. It affects all of you though processes and is as transparent as a window. You clearly take covert pleasure in pointing out any speed bump along the way and cling to your immature "Bush is evil" slant as if it were religious dogma - you operate based on a firm belief in that assumption, and analyze ALL data through that jaded prism. You are nothing but chirping birds.

  16. #76
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    5-ever has got a brand new insult for us. Lately, he&#39;s been refereing to us as "chirping birds".

    Well instead of being insulted I choose to look at it as a backhanded compliment. Each morning chirping birds harken the dawn calling us to a new day, and in a sense I think that is kind of what we&#39;re doing here. Drawing even a small measure of attention to the folly of the US occupation of Iraq is important and I believe its worthwhile.

    So 5-ever you can be as smug as you want but you ought to wake up and hear the birdies sing.

  17. #77
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    5ever i never pretended to have respect for human life. And i never devalued the loss of American life - i was responding to a comment made by WEEB one of yours. He brought it up and he was the one who brought the relative value of life into it.

    ask me... 60k dead per year in Iraq? Hey so what. There are masacres in Africa and people couldn&#39;t care less. There are wars all over the world. What&#39;s different about Iraq that we should actually care? Why is it our problem?

    Meanwhile you talk about the sanctions that "were imposed" (nice use of the passive voice) - gee who imposed them? the UN but who was the IMPETUS behind the sanctions? Its biggest and most important member maybe? I think you know the answer to that and its not "saddam" for starting the war.

    PS- i dunno if you noticed but Saddam & Bin Ladin - still out there and they have grudges&#33;

    like i said before this is not about morality its about reality. The methods are flawed. The PNAC doctrine will never work. There will never be peace in the middle east and throwing Billions of taxpayer funds at the problem won&#39;t solve anything. In fact it very well could make things worse. I don&#39;t mind the morality what i mind is the logisitics - the planning - its like who thought this would be a good idea that would actually work??? we conquered afghanistan and that place is worse than it ever was&#33;&#33; At least grant me that point... Is life in a post-Saddam world better for Americans in any real way?

  18. #78
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by outsider[/i]@Sep 11 2003, 12:06 AM
    [b]
    The harsh reality is that we allowed this to happen. [/b][/quote]
    And there you have it. It&#39;s America&#39;s fault. It&#39;s not the fault of the scum that planned and executed the attack (NO&#33; -- they&#39;re oppressed and can only be expected to lash out)...

    THANK YOU for succinctly expressing the liberal mindset/agenda/motivation/mantra. Anything and everything guys like you say all boil down to that basic core tenet -- no matter how you try to obfuscate and obscure it.

  19. #79
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 11 2003, 08:57 AM
    [b] 5ever i never pretended to have respect for human life. And i never devalued the loss of American life - i was responding to a comment made by WEEB one of yours. He brought it up and he was the one who brought the relative value of life into it.

    ask me... 60k dead per year in Iraq? Hey so what. There are masacres in Africa and people couldn&#39;t care less. There are wars all over the world. What&#39;s different about Iraq that we should actually care? Why is it our problem?

    Meanwhile you talk about the sanctions that "were imposed" (nice use of the passive voice) - gee who imposed them? the UN but who was the IMPETUS behind the sanctions? Its biggest and most important member maybe? I think you know the answer to that and its not "saddam" for starting the war.

    PS- i dunno if you noticed but Saddam & Bin Ladin - still out there and they have grudges&#33;

    like i said before this is not about morality its about reality. The methods are flawed. The PNAC doctrine will never work. There will never be peace in the middle east and throwing Billions of taxpayer funds at the problem won&#39;t solve anything. In fact it very well could make things worse. I don&#39;t mind the morality what i mind is the logisitics - the planning - its like who thought this would be a good idea that would actually work??? we conquered afghanistan and that place is worse than it ever was&#33;&#33; At least grant me that point... Is life in a post-Saddam world better for Americans in any real way? [/b][/quote]
    "What about the Iraqi soldiers?&#33;? Waahhhh&#33;"


    So, we shouldn&#39;t have imposed sanctions? Great. I guess Israel shouldn&#39;t have destroyed the nuclear reactor France gave Iraq in the 80&#39;s.

    Yes, Bitonti - life in a post-Saddam world is better for Americans. YOU don&#39;t think he was a threat but you have ADMITTED to feeling no threat on 9-10-2001, so your authority is hardly reliable. You disagreed with going after the Taliban even AFTER 9-11, so spare me you lectures.

    Yes, Saddam and OBL still draw breath, but their organizations have been significantly weakened in the past two years. You never acknowledge this, you cry about schools needing money, even when we&#39;ve given them billions and billions over the past decades with no improvement. How about vouchers? "No way 5ever, those are crazy"

    You actually blamed the weather on some Carter admin legislation that was repealed. Honestly, twenty years is enough to materially affect the weather because of some legislation? Yeah - that dog hunts.

    Hey - you guys are nice enough and I enjoy talking sports and arguing politics. I&#39;d love to meet up at 16H one time (if I don&#39;t get bombed and forget on game day&#33;). It&#39;s no big deal that your resasoning isn&#39;t
    sound. ;)

    TAIL - incidentally, I heard some Iraqi describe a war protestor as a chirping bird, since all she would say was that Saddam should stay in power. He ridiculed her ignorance and trivialization of his life&#39;s struggles, and I thought it was a perfect description.

  20. #80
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    Seldom have I ever seen people so consistantly wrong yet be so smug about it.

    5-ever and weeb = Lenny and Squiggie. :lol:

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