Enjoy an Ads-Free Jets Insider - Become a Jets Insider VIP!
Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 4121314
Results 261 to 276 of 276

Thread: Post all political and war topics here, part 2

  1. #261
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    That's a fair reaction, although IMO you completely neglect to mention Moore's obvious self-promotion and assume that he is doing what he does from some sort of benevolent sacrifice against tyranny and oppression. I disagree that his only motive is that he "hates seeing people die needlessly."

    He's a shameless self-promoter and he exploits tradjedy for his own financial gain. Did he give 100% of the profits from BFC to programs aimed at stopping gun violence?!?

    All he does on his website is brag about how popular he is and how much money he is making...spare me the "concerned citizen" angle, it's insulting. He COMPLETELY misrepresented the Flint elementary thing, I disagree with you there immensely. Talk about pretzel logic. "Yeah - he wasn't objective, but a kid did die, so he's not lying..." Nothing is ever a poor person's fault, I guess. How do [b]you[/b] know there wans't anything that could be done...because Moore covered all of the available options objectively in his film? Please. He illicited the emotional reaction from you that he intended to, mission accomplished.

    BTW - Ann Coulter is merely and genuiniely concerned with the course of this great nation and writes her books from the heart, not to advance her own celebrity or financial situation. (kidding, but your arguments can easily be inverted)

    I can tell from your posts that you have a bit of the protest bug in you, even though you seem too sensible to be a protestor. "Regardless of the protests" they got their war, as if protests mean anything. Moore is "fighting" people in power. Ashcroft is a "zealot." I mean, a little dramatic, aren't we? Meanhiwle, Moore is merely "concerned about needless deaths." Well, needless deaths that don't include Israelis on buses, mind you. Needless deaths that don't include unborn children, mind you.

    I liked Bob Roberts because it wasn't pretending to be something it's not. Simple.

    It's not a huge deal and like you said, [b]we agree to disagree.[/b] We have beaten this to death. I think you are romanticising Moore and I am sorry, he's not only "asking questions" that are spawned from his intrinsic concern for the welfare of all of God's creatures, he is a liberal activist who is blatantly anti-Bush. He IS Ann Coulter, only funnier and considerably less educated. He is a talented filmmaker, I will give him that though.

  2. #262
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Everything you said is fair, and I'm glad we had the chance to flesh this out civally (is that a word or a bushism? :o )

    Just to clarify quickly:

    Moore, like every other celebrity "political" activist including all of the other writers we argue about, is absolutely into promoting himself. In a capitalist society, that's what independent entertainers do. I never said the guy was selfless (I mean, just look how fat he is -- [insert rim shot here]).

    I simply said the intent of his books and films to me is to point out hypocrisies and ironic policies that lead to a lot of actual suffering and miseries, and do it with a vicious sense of humor. And yeah, I have a lot of respect for someone who can do that and become a millionaire despite being a fat, ugly high school dropout. Frankly, the guy has worked a lot harder than Bush to get where he is today, whether it's a relevant comparison of character or not.

    As for the Flint thing, I never said the mother or the child are blameless. In fact, most of the fault still lies with them (and the crackhouse uncle even moreso), just as the 9/11 tragedy absolutely falls more with the terrorists than the governments of Saudi Arabia, America, or Iraq. But speaking as a citizen who would prefer not to get blown up in a building OR shot by a 10 year old kid in my lifetime, I have a huge interest in ways we can foster a society that does a better job of preventing this crap from happening than -- IMO -- we currently do as a country. I've stated my opinions as a gun owner before, and would happily discuss them further in a tangent thread if the issue resurfaces...

    Good stuff today.

  3. #263
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jet Set Junta[/i]@Sep 24 2003, 03:35 PM
    [b] Everything you said is fair, and I'm glad we had the chance to flesh this out civally (is that a word or a bushism? :o )

    Just to clarify quickly:

    Moore, like every other celebrity "political" activist including all of the other writers we argue about, is absolutely into promoting himself. In a capitalist society, that's what independent entertainers do. I never said the guy was selfless (I mean, just look how fat he is -- [insert rim shot here]).

    I simply said the intent of his books and films to me is to point out hypocrisies and ironic policies that lead to a lot of actual suffering and miseries, and do it with a vicious sense of humor. And yeah, I have a lot of respect for someone who can do that and become a millionaire despite being a fat, ugly high school dropout. Frankly, the guy has worked a lot harder than Bush to get where he is today, whether it's a relevant comparison of character or not.

    As for the Flint thing, I never said the mother or the child are blameless. In fact, most of the fault still lies with them (and the crackhouse uncle even moreso), just as the 9/11 tragedy absolutely falls more with the terrorists than the governments of Saudi Arabia, America, or Iraq. But speaking as a citizen who would prefer not to get blown up in a building OR shot by a 10 year old kid in my lifetime, I have a huge interest in ways we can foster a society that does a better job of preventing this crap from happening than -- IMO -- we currently do as a country. I've stated my opinions as a gun owner before, and would happily discuss them further in a tangent thread if the issue resurfaces...

    Good stuff today. [/b][/quote]
    That's a really good post. I agree.

    And we do have an interest in those things to which you allude. Hey - I have all sorts of problems with the conservative-led War on Drugs and things like that, believe me. But that is a whole 'nother topic entirely.

    Agreed, good stuff Jet Set.

  4. #264
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,393
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 24 2003, 10:30 AM
    [b] The speech to the UN was just pathetic. Hey where&#39;s weeb, i thought it was "F the UN" - oh no that&#39;s right i guess we need them after all. :blink: <_<
    [/b][/quote]
    I musta missed the part when GW got on his knees and begged for help.

    I heard a very diplomatic, "we were right and we&#39;re still running the show".

    But spin it anyway that makes you feel good. I&#39;m sure [i]President Clark[/i] will straighten this country out. If that happens, I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll be happy -- just don&#39;t go to work in any tall buildings and hang out in small crowds...

  5. #265
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    hey weeb i work in a tall building right now and let me tell ya, nothing about spending 87 B in Iraq makes me feel safer about working there

    whats the alternative, 4 more years of president "jobs" and the tall buildings will be nothing but overprices storage space, all the employees will be in India and Beijing.

  6. #266
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 24 2003, 10:30 AM
    [b] Kerry is done. Its Clark&#39;s show - break out the clark bars&#33;

    Tailgators you can&#39;t order a cheesesteak with swiss cheese and win a general election&#33; kerry&#39;s a good lawmaker, and a war hero but ultimately not a man of the people. in the end he&#39;s just too unexciting and more than that he did vote YES on the war powers act.

    CometoNY Bush is NO REAGAN. Ronnie hooked the economy up. Bush gutted the coffers to chase unnecessary wars. No president since Hoover has lost as many jobs as Dubya. He&#39;s toast unless he pulls some sort of rabbit out of his hat. The speech to the UN was just pathetic. Hey where&#39;s weeb, i thought it was "F the UN" - oh no that&#39;s right i guess we need them after all. :blink: <_<

    sooth wants us to spread out but i don&#39;t think im capable. Im like Morgan Freeman in shawshank i can only piss with permission&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Bush is a lot like Regan...he&#39;s got to clean up the sh&#33;t mess left by the liberal he succeeded, though this mess was not as transparent as the load Carter left&#33;

  7. #267
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Sep 24 2003, 11:21 PM
    [b] [quote][b]Bush is a lot like Regan...he&#39;s got to clean up the sh&#33;t mess left by the liberal he succeeded, though this mess was not as transparent as the load Carter left&#33;[/b][/quote] [/b][/quote]
    You&#39;re kidding right?

    President Bush inherited the best economy in modern American history and he totally trashed it. Don&#39;t forget that in 2000 the Federal Government was poised to retire the national debt, today we&#39;re suffering from the the largest budget deficits in history.

    Also bear in mind that it was the US Military that was developed and paid for during the 1990&#39;s that had the success in Iraq. A great deal of the major weapons systems used were all developed while President Clinton was in office. While these weapons systems probably would have been developed no matter who was in office, its fair to say that Clinton&#39;s stewardship over the military contributed greatly to the success it has presently achieved.

    Furthermore, the program to help local municipalites to pay for the salaries of Police officers made sense and was a huge success, and probably was a major factor in the reduction of violent crimes during the 1990&#39;s. BTW since Bush saw fit to cut this program it has placed a major burdon on local governments and the violent crime rate has crept up.

    As is plain to see your statement that Bush inherited a mess is grossly incorrect. As I consider the stewardship of George W. Bush I think its fair to say he took a silk purse and turned it into a sow&#39;s ear.

  8. #268
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    Tail - if you believe Clinton helped the military and that George Bush did not inherit a declining economy than there is no need to ever have discussions with you. I have no desire to have conversations with someone who stubbornly thinks 2+2=5.

    I didn&#39;t think it was possible, but your posts have become more delusionally partisan and ignorant. This last post of yours is so patently absurd that it deserves nothing but laughter. You are funny to me.

  9. #269
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Sep 25 2003, 09:02 AM
    [b] Tail - if you believe Clinton helped the military and that George Bush did not inherit a declining economy than there is no need to ever have discussions with you. I have no desire to have conversations with someone who stubbornly thinks 2+2=5.

    I didn&#39;t think it was possible, but your posts have become more delusionally partisan and ignorant. This last post of yours is so patently absurd that it deserves nothing but laughter. You are funny to me. [/b][/quote]

    Just another typically dismissive and nasty reply from a pompous ultra rightwing blowhard. He can&#39;t argue the facts so he always resorts to personal attacks. It&#39;s too bad, sometimes he actually seems like a bright and decent guy.

    5-ever... So what part of the program that helped local governments put more police on the streets, thus reducing violent crime didn&#39;t you like?

  10. #270
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Sep 25 2003, 08:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Sep 25 2003, 08:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jets5ever[/i]@Sep 25 2003, 09:02 AM
    [b] Tail - if you believe Clinton helped the military and that George Bush did not inherit a declining economy than there is no need to ever have discussions with you. I have no desire to have conversations with someone who stubbornly thinks 2+2=5.

    I didn&#39;t think it was possible, but your posts have become more delusionally partisan and ignorant. This last post of yours is so patently absurd that it deserves nothing but laughter. You are funny to me. [/b][/quote]

    Just another typically dismissive and nasty reply from a pompous ultra rightwing blowhard. He can&#39;t argue the facts so he always resorts to personal attacks. It&#39;s too bad, sometimes he actually seems like a bright and decent guy.

    5-ever... So what part of the program that helped local governments put more police on the streets, thus reducing violent crime didn&#39;t you like? [/b][/quote]
    You don&#39;t report "facts" Tail - you are an emotional child. &#39;"Clinton saved the world 5ever, what&#39;s wrong with that? I guess you must hate the world then, if you hate Clinton." As if your immature "traps" can be passed off as serious discussion.

    No offense, but I can and have argued facts; you are just not worthy of the effort. I am sorry if I seem pompous to you, but it&#39;s not my fault you aren&#39;t in my league. I have high standards.

    Many times I have given critiques of Bush&#39;s spending, or praised Clinton for things he did that I agree with, or reiterated my concerns with some aspects of the Patriot Act and the death penalty and I called Billy&#39;s impeachment my worst ever moment as a conservative and have not voted GOP since. But you, on the other hand, are transparently a Dem partisan with no principles, other than a religious allegiance to the Democratic Party [i]in toto[/i]. You are unwilling to even[i] slightly[/i] criticize Clinton or [i]slightly [/i]praise Bush, even though Clinton HIMSELF attacked Iraq, talked about a WMD threat and recently has been adamant about defending Bush on the WMD issue. Now, you are trying to credit a guy who reduced the military greatly with it&#39;s current strength&#33; It&#39;s astounding and absurd and not worthy of serious debate.

    I honestly, truly believe that if a Democratic President invaded Iraq you&#39;d support the war. You are a weathervane. You support Kerry who voted in favor of the war, yet are against the war. You are a chirping bird, sorry.

  11. #271
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    5-ever... Do you accept at face value Come back&#39;s assertion that Bush inherited a worse mess than Ronald Reagan did in 1981?

    BTW 1980 was the first year I could vote and I voted for Reagan, so how does that square with me being a democratic weather vain?

    While I admit to being emotional about things I care about, for today at least it seems you&#39;re being the emotional one.

    Lastly, for the record I thought Clinton&#39;s NAFTA program was a disaster for the American worker, also I found his unfaithfullness to his wife reprehensible.
    However on balance I thought and continue to think he was an above average president.

  12. #272
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    is any1 else excited about the Dem debate? i just want to see what will happen - will everyone gang up on Clark?

    did any1 see the Terminator in debate? i caught some highlights the man may have no real political knowledge or even qualified for the job but there&#39;s something really cool about having an Action hero as governor. he can dole out those 1 liners with the best of them. Arianna was annoying. Right most of the time but just annoying. Someone should switch her over to decaf.

  13. #273
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 25 2003, 10:30 AM
    [b] did any1 see the Terminator in debate? [/b][/quote]
    I didn&#39;t watch last nights "debate". I can&#39;t stand the level of acrimony that dominates these events.

  14. #274
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Sep 25 2003, 10:14 AM
    [b] I am sorry if I seem pompous to you, but it&#39;s not my fault you aren&#39;t in my league. I have high standards.

    [/b][/quote]
    Hey Thurston...Thanks for proving my point. :lol:

  15. #275
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Sep 25 2003, 10:30 AM
    [b] is any1 else excited about the Dem debate? i just want to see what will happen - will everyone gang up on Clark?

    did any1 see the Terminator in debate? i caught some highlights the man may have no real political knowledge or even qualified for the job but there&#39;s something really cool about having an Action hero as governor. he can dole out those 1 liners with the best of them. Arianna was annoying. Right most of the time but just annoying. Someone should switch her over to decaf. [/b][/quote]
    bitlefti -

    cali debates? general clark in the dem debates? you really are obsessed. nothing wrong with that.

    however, if all you do is cast a vote on election day you are wasting energy. if you feel so strongly, volunteer for local politics - i think you&#39;d be suprised by how low the barrier of entry is for access to representitives. it is the ranks from where most (politics like any other business is awash with nepotism) the big fish come and you can take these ill ideas of yours into a higher arena than here. you might even gag at the close up view of the democratic agenda, seeing they are more interested in trial lawyers and gay marriage than working families - and then go republican. and the jets might make the playoffs. i&#39;m watching this one from home today for a litany of off-field reasons, though with this rain and 4th L looming - i don&#39;t mind.

    i got flippant with insults before and apologize to you and the rest of gang-guevera.


    go jets.

  16. #276
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    apologies for past rage extended to gang-guevera&#39;s co-captain, tailgator.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us