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Thread: Yankees ruining baseball "THE SEQUEL"

  1. #1
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    Sorry for ruckess the post caused last night. One too many beers and a heated topic (bad timing too). I apologize to all the Yankee fans out there. It was one heck of a game, and the Yankees deserve the credit for coming back. Once that home run was hit to make it 4-1, you KNEW what was going to happen.

    But I still stick to my guns that a level playing field would help the sport. Yes the Marlins payroll is low, yes the A's payroll is low. But I honestly think baseball needs some kind of cap.

    Hockey is running into the same issue, and it's going to affect the entire sport. The revenue from television rights, attendance, merchandising is multiple times higher for football, yet the salaries in hockey are starting to match that of the NFL.

    Sure the Yankees (usually) spend wisely, but is it fair they can purchase everybody? IF there was a level playing field, it would than determine how you spent that money, not by how much you can spend.

    So again, I'm sorry if I offended anybody with the post.

  2. #2
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    Booo F-ing Hooo.

    Go cry somewhere else!

  3. #3
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    I'd love to hold a conversation with you tailgators. I'm sure it would be a stimulating experience.

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    What is the Marlins payrol? Steve, your argument is weak. There is nothing wrong with an owner investing money in his team.

    Basically, what you are saying is there are only enough super talented people to fill one team. The yankees have all the talent and the rest of the world has none.

    maybe the rest of the league needs to improve their scouting departments. The real secret to the Yankees success is superior scouting.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by jetman67@Oct 17 2003, 09:28 AM
    What is the Marlins payrol? Steve, your argument is weak. There is nothing wrong with an owner investing money in his team.

    Basically, what you are saying is there are only enough super talented people to fill one team. The yankees have all the talent and the rest of the world has none.

    maybe the rest of the league needs to improve their scouting departments. The real secret to the Yankees success is superior scouting.
    J-man-no one is denying that there can be individual seasons for small market teams where they can have their once in a decade run.

    The problem with the sport is that these small market teams are unable to sustain their success by holding ontpo their core players.


    The Yankees have what every franchise needs-STABILITY. The economics of the game afford them the ability to achive that stability.

    What if Derek Jeter came through the Pittsburgh Pirate organization. Think they would be able to keep him off the FA line? Do the Yankees EVER have to worry about that? Ever?

  6. #6
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    Would everyone's opinion about this topic be different if it was the Red Sox winning all the time?

    Doesn't anyone agree that the NFL is in a better state because they have a salary cap? The salaries do not skyrocket, it keeps an even playing field, the contracts are not guaranteed. It's not about the "Yankees" per say.

    The system the NFL has in place is one of the reasons why they are such a strong organization. But saying that the high rollers in the sport don't have an advantage over the small market franchise is like saying Bill Gates doesn't have an advantage over most of his competition. The ability to spend more does affect the sport. Do the Yankees spend their money wisely, Y-E-S! Did the Orioles spend their millions wisely years ago? N-O! But to say that things are all well in MLB-land when the Yankees, Braves and Red Sox have payrolls over 100,000,000 and the Expos have a payroll of 30,000? Come on.

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    Originally posted by Scott Dierking@Oct 17 2003, 09:32 AM
    J-man-no one is denying that there can be individual seasons for small market teams where they can have their once in a decade run.


    The Yankees have what every franchise needs-STABILITY. The economics of the game afford them the ability to achive that stability.

    Now you are sounding like the Yankees win every year. The last World Championship was in 2000. before 96, the Yanks had an 18 year drought where they were a terrible team most of the time.

    Sounds like management in other markets isnt doing a very good job marketing their product. Make the fans want to come to the park for a game. Make the non-fans become fans. Achieve this and the small market team will have money. They will have to spend more money on marketing, but it is not impossible.

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    Originally posted by jetman67+Oct 17 2003, 09:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jetman67 @ Oct 17 2003, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Scott Dierking@Oct 17 2003, 09:32 AM
    J-man-no one is denying that there can be individual seasons for small market teams where they can have their once in a decade run.


    The Yankees have what every franchise needs-STABILITY. The economics of the game afford them the ability to achive that stability.

    Now you are sounding like the Yankees win every year. The last World Championship was in 2000. before 96, the Yanks had an 18 year drought where they were a terrible team most of the time.

    Sounds like management in other markets isnt doing a very good job marketing their product. Make the fans want to come to the park for a game. Make the non-fans become fans. Achieve this and the small market team will have money. They will have to spend more money on marketing, but it is not impossible. [/b][/quote]
    The problem, J-Man, at least in my mind, is that baseball ITSELF has done the poor job in promoting.

    They have done better recently, but the horse is far out of the barn. For years, and it still exists, the relations between baseball ownership and the players was awful. The players distrusted the owners and were fed by the labor unions, and teh owners hated Don Fehr and his labor cronies.

    There was good reason for this, owners had treated the players as slave labor until the early 70&#39;s. The mistrust was so great that the owners would rather smear their players than promote them-ala George and Dave Winfileld. They did bnot promote their own sport. And, they still are pretty poor at it.

    I could go on and on about this, but will psare everybody.

    If you want to read a great book, read "Lords of the Realm" It is a history of player owner relationships. Fascinating reading

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by CanadaSteve@Oct 17 2003, 09:38 AM
    Would everyone&#39;s opinion about this topic be different if it was the Red Sox winning all the time?

    Doesn&#39;t anyone agree that the NFL is in a better state because they have a salary cap? The salaries do not skyrocket, it keeps an even playing field, the contracts are not guaranteed. It&#39;s not about the "Yankees" per say.

    The system the NFL has in place is one of the reasons why they are such a strong organization. But saying that the high rollers in the sport don&#39;t have an advantage over the small market franchise is like saying Bill Gates doesn&#39;t have an advantage over most of his competition. The ability to spend more does affect the sport. Do the Yankees spend their money wisely, Y-E-S&#33; Did the Orioles spend their millions wisely years ago? N-O&#33; But to say that things are all well in MLB-land when the Yankees, Braves and Red Sox have payrolls over 100,000,000 and the Expos have a payroll of 30,000? Come on.
    The problem is baseball cant have a salary cap. The players would strike. Another strike would destroy baseball.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by jetman67+Oct 17 2003, 10:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jetman67 @ Oct 17 2003, 10:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--CanadaSteve@Oct 17 2003, 09:38 AM
    Would everyone&#39;s opinion about this topic be different if it was the Red Sox winning all the time?

    Doesn&#39;t anyone agree that the NFL is in a better state because they have a salary cap? The salaries do not skyrocket, it keeps an even playing field, the contracts are not guaranteed. It&#39;s not about the "Yankees" per say.

    The system the NFL has in place is one of the reasons why they are such a strong organization. But saying that the high rollers in the sport don&#39;t have an advantage over the small market franchise is like saying Bill Gates doesn&#39;t have an advantage over most of his competition. The ability to spend more does affect the sport. Do the Yankees spend their money wisely, Y-E-S&#33; Did the Orioles spend their millions wisely years ago? N-O&#33; But to say that things are all well in MLB-land when the Yankees, Braves and Red Sox have payrolls over 100,000,000 and the Expos have a payroll of 30,000? Come on.
    The problem is baseball cant have a salary cap. The players would strike. Another strike would destroy baseball. [/b][/quote]
    J-Man-My hope was for the strike last year. One that would have been a scorched earth effect on baseball, and required it to start from scratch in about 5 or 6 years.

    This coming from a guy who would watch EVERY inning possible growing up,because I loved the game so much.

    Base ball CAN have a slary cap type, but it ius unable to agree on basically anything. The divide between owners and players and the mistrust there may never be narrowed.

  11. #11
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    OK, I posted this in the first &#39;Yankees ruining baseball&#39; and here it is again. Nobody is saying that the Yankees aren&#39;t a great team. Noone is saying that they don&#39;t have great scouting. But that is not the main reason that they are able to win so CONSISTENTLY.

    There are plenty of teams with great scouting departments and front offices. The Expos have developed just as much Major League talent as the Yankees over the last 10-15 years and have nothing to show for it.

    The revenue imbalance shows up in many ways. Scouting departments (number of scouts hired), ability to sign draft picks (particularly &#39;problem picks&#39; that are looking for huge dollars), International prospects that go to the highest bidder, ability to resign your own stars.

    That last one is probably the single biggest factor in this discussion. Some small market teams can develop some young talent and compete for a short time, but as soon as their stars start making big money they are gone. Name one star the Yankees have lost to free agency. There aren&#39;t any and that&#39;s why they are able to win year after year, or at the very least be in a position to win.

    The Red Sox are one of the haves as well, and they are consistently competitive because of it. It just so happens that they are in the same division as the biggest HAVE of them all.

    I don&#39;t understand why a legitimate discussion of this issue is such a threat to Yankee fans. Yes you have the best team. You should realize that you are lucky to have the advantages that you do. It&#39;s nothing to apologize for, just to acknowledge. You have a great FO, great scouting, great coaching - but it isn&#39;t THAT much better than everyone else that you&#39;d win SO OFTEN without also having the most money. Enjoy it, but lose the superiority complex.

  12. #12
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    There is only one answer to level the playing field (besides a cap). Retraction. If you want to blame big market NY for having an unfair edge, then retraction is the answer. Force more larger regions to watch a certain team. For example, take the PIT Pirates away and most of them will eventually root for CIN Reds. Etc...

    But you know what, this is all BS. The west coast teams (LA, SF,) have almost as much market share as we do yet they don&#39;t spend. And none of you guys want to even take into consideration that the Yankees STUNK for about 20 or so years. What about then?? Fact is, if a certain market can&#39;t get out and support their own team enough that they produce a contender, then MOVE THE TEAM&#33;&#33; Montreal has no business having a baseball team. Milwaukee doesn&#39;t deserve one. Tampa Bay, Colorado, Kansas City, none of them deserve a team. They don&#39;t get out and support them. If the Yankees stink, one thing you will not see is a stadium with 5,000 people in it. We still go to the games. We still support our team. While they may not be sellouts, they sure as hell aren&#39;t empty.

    This same thing happens in football and as Jets fans, we all know the worst culprit. The MIA Dolphins haven&#39;t sold out in years. There last playoff appearance was blacked out locally because the game didn&#39;t sell out :blink: :blink: That team should have been moved out right then and there.

    The Yankees do have the largest market, but they also have some of the most devoted fans on the planet. Have any of you guys actually seen the Yes network?? Other than games, it generally sucks. But we still watch it, because it supports our team.

  13. #13
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    Market share is meaningless. There&#39;s only one thing that matters and that&#39;s revenue. And there is nobody even remotely in the same ballpark as the Yankees when it comes to revenue.

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    Originally posted by Boozer76@Oct 17 2003, 03:39 PM
    Milwaukee doesn&#39;t deserve one. Tampa Bay, Colorado, Kansas City, none of them deserve a team.
    Are you kidding me? Colorado and KC don&#39;t deserve teams? Colorado has one of the best track records over the last decade for attendance and they DO spend money to try to put a quality product on the field. As far as KC, their fan support is excellent IMHO when you consider how bad they&#39;ve been. They draw pretty well for a team that has no shot and no willingness to spend.

    Tampa Bay I would give a couple of more years. People came out early for them but then disasterous signings (Wilson Alvarez, Jose Guzman, Canseco) put the team in a postion where a huge cut of their payroll was on the DL for a few years (literally). This led to poor play, poor attendance, etc... Now with some of their young players (Aubrey Huff, Rocco Baldelli, Carl Crawford, Joe Kennedy, Jared Sandberg) They&#39;ve got to start doing enough to bring the fans in. I don&#39;t think the D&#39; Rays are a great team but they did have their first ever over .500 81 game stretch in the second half. Devil Ray fans have never had anything to cheer for so I don&#39;t know how you can say they don&#39;t deserve a team. If they end up like the A&#39;s and don&#39;t draw even when they win, then I say take the team away.

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