Since your Avatar seems to be increasingly changing at a geometric rate after months of the generic X-eyed yellow smiley, I have to ask: Who was the last avatar with the b/w band photo? Looked like the Smiths with a bloated Morrissey and Chrissie Hynde hiding in the background? Couldn't ID the group, and it's still bugging me....
Or was it just a group photo of the Young Conservative club in Texas who sold affirmative action baked goods? :D
That was a funny story about the bake sale. Not exactly how I'd go about it and all, but it made me chuckle...
[b]It was a photo of the Pixies. [/b] Frank Black was in the center. They were young, probably 21 back then.
The Pixies are the shiz-nit and after I heard Where is My Mind I started playing the guitar and haven't stopped since. (Where is my Mind is on the Fight Club soundtrack, but was released in 1988, that's when I heard it)
I am way into punk/grunge music. But early stuff like Fugazi, Sebadoah, Husker Du, Pixies, Sonic Youth and some newer stuff like Pavement, Archers of Loaf. (Never been a big Alice in Chains fan)...etc. I also like other types, including the Smiths, the Cure, and hell, even some ol Depeche Mode isn't bad. etc.
All of the bands I've ever been in have been punk/grunge style - I love bar chords and drop-D tuning, what can I say?
My all time favorite current band is Modest Mouse. Check out anything they do, most notably the album Moon and Antartica or Lonesome Crowded West. They rock!
The funny thing is, I own every Pixies album and couldn't recognize Black Francis with actual hair. Kim Deal also doesn't look much like I remember, either.
That's the one problem with uploaded avatars vs. linking to the original src, even though I think it's much more ethical from a bandwidth perspective for posters to upload their avatars rather than siphon off 3rd party sites; if I see a cool pic I can't ID, I have no idea where it came from.
"Surfer Rosa" and "Doolittle" are two of my favorite records ever; I'm not as into the last two but I get 'em out occasionally. I have the first two Frank Black solos, but haven't followed him much since then. I liked the Breeders' first album "Pod" a lot but never got into "Last Splash" as much, and the brand new one they put out just seems too much like the old stuff.
4AD, the label that spawned the Pixies and a whole new generation of thematic album cover designs, was one of my favorites back in the day and helped change the way I thought about music growing up. Lush, Wolfgang Press, His Name Is Alive, Dead Can Dance, Cocteau Twins, Throwing Muses, This Mortal Coil; all great stuff I really should dig off the shelves more these days.
I remember you mentioning Modest Mouse before; I have the newer ones like "Moon & Antarctica" and "Everywhere + Nasty Parlour Tricks", but haven't explored the earlier punky stuff.
One last question, and not to cheapen a great music thread: How do you relate back to the fact that most punk/indie/EMO stuff is pretty "Leftist" in its politics? Do you just take it in stride and separate the art from the 'message', or are there certain bands and artists who you wanted to like but their politics were too blatant and ridiculous? I've also wondered this about Jet Moses, another cat into all kinds of great whacko rock-n-punk.
Believe it or not, I actually think about this sometimes as well since I'm nowhere near as far to the "Left" as a lot of my favorite artists, and despite the ridiculous namecalling of people here like Spirit of Weeb and Come Back to NY, I have a deep loathing of Marxism and Communism which some of these artists do veer into both on and off their records.
I have found that it's easier to separate in the music than it is for filmmakers. The blatant Marxism of some of my favorite directors did IMO seep into and ruin some of their films, case in point Jean Luc Godard's "Weekend" which starts out as one of the greatest satires ever before degenerating into whiny delusional rhetoric.
But even most of the films from the "Left" are too vague to pin exact ideaologies into ... it's hilarious to hear different people form arguments about how "Brazil" or the original "Rollerball" depict a totalitarian leftist OR right-wing society. Just goes to show how similar the extreme ends of the spectrum are once the power is out of the hands of individuals.
I like almost all of those bands you mentioned, funny. To tell you the truth, the politics behind punk don't bother me at all. I soured on Rage Against the Machine but mostly because I didn't like Zack's voice and I am preternaturallyopposed to the rock/rap fusion craze that they helped create. Granted, Rage's blatant and IMO arrogant political stuff made the desrtion a lot easier...when they would stand up on stage with some Free Tibet sign or whatever the cause du jour was and not play a single tune and rip off their fans I just started laughing at them. Get over yourself, Zack. People bought your first album because it rocked, not because they agreed with your politics. The first Rage album is great, but they enever did anything else. They became caricatures of themselves towards the end....
I am pumped for the Chris Cornell- Tom Morello marriage in Audioslave. Cornell essentially told them that he'd never want to do any political commentary in songs or press events. The first Audioslave alubum isn't great, but it's promising and I think Cornell is a great, great singer...maybe even the best of this "generation" now that Shannon Hoon has passed. (They were sush festive hippies, but Blind Melon could rock, can't take that away from them)
But Fugazi is as left as they get and I love them. 13 Songs is a classic punk/grunge album. Your point about music and films is really insightful and I agree completely. But movies like Brazil are anti-establishment or, at the very least, broad social satires and I laugh at people who try to couch the satire in contemporary, partisan terms. Both the Dems and GOP are the establishment, the differences in terms of Gilliam's message is immaterial. It makes no difference whether or not Gilliam himself is liberal, the movie stands apart from that debate.
I have no trouble at all 'divorcing' an individual from his art for the most part. For example, I really enjoy Sean Penn and Johnny Depp movies because those guys are such talented actors. Yeah, I disagree with their politics and consider them to be self-important boobs, but I still enjoyed Mystic River and Sleepy Hollow and Pirates of the Caribbean. As much as he annoys me, Tim Robbins is a talente dguy - can't take that away from him. But with directors, it's a bit harder to "divorce" the person and his politics cause so often the politics come through in the movies. I think this is why I wouldn't enjoy a Michael Moore movie even if it was "non-political." I know too much abut Moore to really separate his 'art" from his views - similar, I'd imagine, to how you'd react to a novel by Ann Coulter. You may read it, but there's little chance you'd [i]like[/i] it.
Man, Bossanova and Trompe le Monde are both awesome albums. I urge you to listen to them again. "All over the world" and "Hangwire" are classics. Frank drove across the country with some girfrend playing bars and stuff by himself after the Doolittle tour was over. He just smoked face and drove and saw the USA. During that time he wrote most of Bossanova and he was really obsessed with aliens. Trompe, IMO, is really the album in which the Pixies cement their reputation as the fathers of Nirvana-style grunge music. Surfer and Come on Pilgrim and even Doolittle are punk albums, while I thinik Trompe shows a heavier, grungier style. Dave Grohl once said that every fan of grunge should listen to Trompe and learn exactly what grunge is all about - he said it was one of the best he's ever heard. (I HATE Foo Fighters, for the record...cheddar cheese)
An underrated guy is J Mascus of Dinosaur Jr. That guy is a great musician, he plays every instrument on some albums...even drums and for a grungy guitar player, he is very good at soloing.
Have you heard Built to Spill? They are very good and are amazingly talented guitar players. Keep it Like a Secret is their best album, IMO.
Also Bob Mould is decent, and his band Sugar isn't bad.
I don't mind some "mainstream" bands either; Nada Surf is good, Nirvana was great, Soundgarden was awesome, Jane's Addiction was great and even ealy Chili Peppers are good, although everything after Blood Sugar Sex Magic is awful, IMO.
Did you see the movie Rules of Attraction with James Vander Geek? There was an obscure Cure song on that soundtrack from a great album, Head on the Door. I've forgotten how much the Cure rules.
Give a listen to Modest Mouse's "Lonesome Crowded West" and "Long drive fr someone with nothing to talk about" they are great. "Building something out of nothing" takes a few listens to get into, but it's good.
[i](BTW - are you into Euro-punk/alternative at all? I am - Suede, Blur, Stone Roses, Weddint Present, Saw Doctors, and classic bands like the Cure, Love & Rockets all rock!)[/i]
I was and still (I guess) am a big "britpop" fan, as I've heard it called. There was this great club night in Philly in the late 90's called 'Sorted' that would basically play this stuff to a big dance crowd for hours on end; it was not unlike the club scenes from Trainspotting, but more intimate than raves or cheesy big-money house clubs. All of the bands you named above were played in addition to some of my other favorites like Primal Scream, Pulp, New Order, Charlatans, Smiths, some of the "shoegazing" greats from my youth, and a healthy dose of great 60's rock like Kinks, Stones, Beatles, Who, Bowie, etc. It was the last time I really had fun going out dancing before I moved to my cold hippie-infested Central NY bunker. I have never understood why people in this country don't like going out dancing to rock music more; it's all about techno, mainstream watered-down hip hop, swing, or cheesy ska/reggae if you wanna get a groove on outside your house.
Suede have always been one of my favorite bands, and it baffles me why they are not more popular in America. I think their songwriting blows Blur and Oasis out of the water, and they are better at getting that 'big rock' sound without any bad wanking, soloing, or pub-rock posturing. I like some of the latter's stuff (Blur's "The Universal" was one of the best singles of the 90's, and the first Oasis album IMO was still their best), but I'd take any Suede record wall-to-wall over a custom collection of their best tracks.
Stone Roses were another great, though they burned out all too quickly; in hindsight, their second album wasn't THAT bad, but it couldn't touch the debut (one of the best albums of the 80's hands down) and all those singles. None of the solo stuff has come close, either.
The whole short-lived "shoegaze" phenomena was one of the things I grew up on, and first got me really into the guitar -- MBV, Adorable, Slowdive, old Swervedriver, early Catherine Wheel before they sold out, Ride, Chapterhouse, and forefathers like the early JAMC, Felt, and Echo stuff; still some of my favorite music out there. I went through the obligatory phase of buying every effects unit out there trying to cop those sounds; I still have my Peavey Univerb rackmount with all the 'reverse' settings laying around, though I've moved on into other forms of pretending to be a musician. B)
Generically, a lot of what I like most rock-wise after the 1960's seems to fall into the "post-punk" category: PIL, Blondie, Patti Smith, Wire, Joy Division, Cramps, Television, Sonic Youth, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Gang of Four, Swans, Raincoats, Slits, Swell Maps, The Fall, etc; all stuff taking the basic punk ideas and doing interesting stuff with it that still 'rocked'; I have little use for Ramones and Sex Pistols, which some find blasphemous; maybe if I had been around when they first came out I'd feel differently. I do love the Stooges, though, and think they should get more credit for helping invent punk than they seem to.
These days it seems a lot of my record collecting focuses on old extreme jazz (Cecil Taylor, Albert Ayler, Don Cherry, Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, etc), pre-fusion World music (I can't stand the new age / worldbeat stuff, but I'm fascinated with old field recordings from around the world before they were re-recorded and turned into borderline muzak), ancient Americana (I can't stand pub/blues-rock, but I love the scratchy folk and country stuff from the forefathers of rock-n-roll), and whatever old or new rock I'm still missing. I just can't seem to quit buying stuff, it ends up being a lifelong addiction. Just shoot me if I ever get to the point of examining labels to see if I have the 'first pressing' or not, and hoarding backup copies of everything. :D
Re: movies, I saw Rules of Attraction when I was more enamoured with Bret Easton Ellis as a writer; while I like the idea of him and reading some funny excerpts from his novels, he's pretty tedious and gimmicky as a front-to-back enyjoyable read. I actually found the movie version of "American Psycho" a lot more entertaining than the book. [i] "Do you like Huey Lewis and the News?"[/i]
We should trade mix CDs if we ever hook up at a J-E-T-S game...
You know your stuff, damn. I didn't get into the "shoegazing" stuff and didn't even know such a category existed. But my sister is a bit older than me and she grew up listening to Bowie, Cure, Echo, Joy Division, Suede, Love & Rockets, Siousxie, New Order, Erasure, Peter Gabriel, Stone Roses and even lamer stuff like XTC and that band from the Jetta commericials "da da da." (I remember hearing that when I was a tyke!) And she would always play songs for us...she actually though Robert Smith was hot, ha ha..yikes!
Anyway, that paved the way for my musical epiphany when she played Come on Pilgrim at a party. (I think I said earlier it was Where is my Mind, but I am having this memory of hearing Levitate Me first...)
So I becamse obsessively into the Pixies and their ilk - Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Social Distortion, Nirvana, Sebadoah, Pavement, Archers of Loaf...moving on to newer flag-bearers like Modest Mouse, Built to Spill and Blithe, to name a few.
Oh - About Brett E.E.. I feel 100% exactly the same way. Psycho was cool only because you kind of feel "dirty" reading it and you cna't wait to see what he'll say next. But he's just a Brat-pack author and it loses it's appeal the second time around. Less then Zero was a good book and movie, but also loses some of its appeal. The last book about Vampires was just awful.
Rules I liked mostly because of the different perspectives gimmick, but again, that book is ultimately pointless...almost arrogantly so. He's not the poet he seems, Ellis. He's largely a hack...a fun hack, but a hack. He can write about being young, rich and wasted, but not much else. He's no David Foster Wallace, that's for sure!
But, I should mention that I like an whole bunch of stuff, inlcluding classical. I was forced to take piano lessons for ten years and grew to enjoy it towards the end and it has helped my guitar playing immeasurably. I also enjoy the Velvet Underground a ton and even some truly "weird" stuff like Jonathan Richman's old band the Modern Lovers. (Richman is the guitar playing guy in Something About Mary and the most recent "Ice cream man..." commercials.
I also think They Might Be Giants rule.
I can't stand most pop music and have even been accused by some as being a music "snob" because I think Limp Bizkit, Korn and Godsmack blow. I am not opposed to music that is successful, I just think they suck. I was never a big Pink Floyd, Grateful Dead or Phish guy, but I respect them. Phish, to me, is like a hippie-ed out They Might Be Giants! I used to wear a homemade T-shirt in college that read "Phuck Phish" which I thought was clever...
Also - I like rap, some of it. Cube, old NWA, old PE, and more recently Biggie and Tupac I am into. I have to admit to likeing Eminem at times....
I will be at the Jets-Pats game...totally down with twisting one up and listening to some tunes during the tailgate if you are going....
[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Nov 19 2003, 01:26 PM
[b] ill be at the JETS PATS game for sure 100% no lie i will be there on that Sat afternoon - hope to see you there 5ever
ps- i liked the X eyed yellow smiley the best [/b][/quote]
Will do Bit, looking forward to it. My brother and I will arrive as soon as the lot opens (know when that is?) and will have some dank...or some crap, depending....and a bunch of beers.
[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 19 2003, 02:32 PM
[b] My brother and I will arrive as soon as the lot opens (know when that is?) [/b][/quote]
The lot officially opens 4 hours before kick-off. Although I understand you can get in before that.
[quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Nov 19 2003, 01:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Nov 19 2003, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jets5ever[/i]@Nov 19 2003, 02:32 PM
[b] My brother and I will arrive as soon as the lot opens (know when that is?) [/b][/quote]
The lot officially opens 4 hours before kick-off. Although I understand you can get in before that. [/b][/quote]
Ok, cool. Thanks. Hopefully I'll see you there Tail, and we can have a brew or three.
I'm due in NC for the annual christmas bash, but I'm strongly considering hitting that game and then working our way down through PA afterwards. I just need to score tickets to make it happen. It bothers me that I might not make a home game this year for once, but it's been stressful lately trying to get down into the city from Ithaca and find cool crash space.
I'll surely keep you guys posted, so we can have a mini "Post All Political and War Topics Here" reunion. Maybe Maxman can bring a basket of fruit and Jet Moses can read classic rock lyrics while passing around pictures of carnage. :D
yeah the lot "officially" opens 4 hours before kickoff but its my impression that if you show up earlier then that you don't have to pay parking ($15). Im not sure if that holds true for the Sat night game.
Hey and just to contribute to the musical vibes - my fave as far as new music goes is house. But not that cheesy house, the underground stuff you won't hear on the radio - artists like Moodyman, Morgan Geist, Blaze, Cajmere, Masters At Work, Glenn Underground, Soundmen on Wax, Ann Nesby - as far as DJ's go Paul Johnson, Theo Parrish and Gene Farris are the main men. DJ Sneak on three turntables. Jeff Mills and Rob hood are techno wizards. There's not a big scene in this nation, even though all the good stuff is American. Funny how that works. Guys you've never heard of here in the states are living like kings in Europe.
although i like it all from Marley to Willie Nelson and from Ride the Lightning to Norah Jones. There's no bad genres (except trance) ... its really all about fitting the right music to the right mood. Big into Gamble & Huff, Marvin Gaye, Al Green, Michael MacDonald, Bill Withers etc right now.
[quote][i]Originally posted by latinlawyer[/i]@Nov 19 2003, 05:55 PM
[b] FYI...I know this may sound weird but these are the groups I love...
1) Depeche Mode - They rock in concert! Have all their Cd's (Favorite: Music for the Masses and Violator)
2) New Order - Just great rythms and songs
3) Erasure - I know the lead singer is gay but who cares...their songs rock
4) Pet Shop Boys - Dance all night
5) OMD - classic
I love New Wave....and techno!
Those bands are all good. You should check out Joy Division. That was the name of New Order before they became New Order. I forget the guy's name, but they had a different singer and he killed himself (I think he hanged himself). Anyway, after that one of the keyboard players became the lead singer and they changed their name to New Order. You'd like Joy Division, I think.
David Gahan of Depeche Mode grew up singing in his local choir and is a well-trained vocalist. His voice is amazing. He's not gay, but the main songwriter of the band (the guy who sings lead on "Somebody") is quite gay, not that there's anything wrong with that.
"Personal Jesus" has a kicking guitar riff and Gahan's voice rules on that song. You have probably already listened to them, but you should check out The Cure (up to and including the album Disintegration - everything afterwards sucks) The Cure is just enough of a hybrid between dance music and Euro-alt to be pretty unique.
I love the cure and in fact went to see them on their disintegration tour. The whole goth thing is not me at all but the music is great. I have listened to joy division..I think the lead singer was Ian Curtis or something thing like that...i liked it.
I like music you can dance to and new wave's lyrics and dancable rythms have always appealed to me. I remember a pixies song i like..."Here comes your man...."
Ian Curtis was indeed his name. Phenomenal songwriter, IMO the best of the punk era by far. Hearing the "Unknown Pleasures" album in high school was one of the changing moments of my life, similar to 5ever's story about hearing the Pixies for the first time. Have you guys seen the movie/documantary '24 Hour Party People' yet? It's pretty well done, they portray the label svengali Tony Wilson as the central character and play off his comedic value while taking you on a 15 year tour of the whole Manchester 'scene' from the Buzzcocks up through Happy Mondays.
I'm actually a pretty big Pet Shop Boys fan; I think they're pretty underrated by people who are turned off by techno/synthpop thing or think they're too 'gay'. Their first 4 albums just plain have great songs, and they're one of those great bands that appeals on both the shallowest "fun pop music" level and a deep intellectual/postmodern angle if you really think into their lyrics and image. Nowadays their albums aren't as good, though.
Depeche Mode are great songwriters as well, and that and good production values is a large part of why they've aged so much better than Duran Duran and their ilk. I didn't know Martin Gore had officially come out, do you have a link for that?
I agree the Cure went downhill fast after Disintegration, but even that album to me is extremely overrated. They hit their peak with "Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me", which is one of the closest attempts any big British band has come to a White Album; way too long, quite a few annoying throways, but if you picked the best 12-13 songs it would be a masterpiece. I feel the same way about the Beatles opus too.
Everything on Disintegration seems like a parody of something on the previous album, a formula they'd pretty much stick to with increasingly diminishing returns after that. Love Song = How Beautiful You Are, Lullaby = Like Cockatoos, Closedown = One More Time, Fascination Stret = Perfect Girl, etc. I swear all those songs have the same chords and rhythms underneath everything.
I honestly think my favorite Cure record is Japanese Whispers; not a true album per se since it was kludged from 3 singles/EPs for the American market, but it flows together really well and has some of their most underrated tracks (Lament, Upstairs Room, etc). I also dig 'Head on the Door' a lot, too, and of course the 17/Faith/Pornography trio. I REALLY wish Fat Bob would finally just release a real B-sides anthology like they did with the cheesy cassette version of "Staring at the Sea" that never made it to CD. Their B-sides have always been as good as the stuff that ended up on singles/albums, and I think the B-sides from the Disintegration/Wish era have totally shredded anything on those albums (Fear of Ghosts, Babble, etc).
I've made a hobby of collecting, burning, and trading B-sides CDRs for most of my favorite bands, but I love it when the band goes out of their way eventually to do an official release like that. It's good for business, good for the fans, cuts down on illegal bootlegging, and brings a lot of forgotten/underrated material back into the light. Especially when the band is long past the days of putting out their best work. :rolleyes:
Good to see this thread keeping up, even if means me babbling endlessly and avoiding real work.
Well, Martin Gore, the songwriter of Depeche, never came out. In fact the bloke is married but there have always been signs that he swung both ways.
I am the biggest depeche fan however, the last song I honestly liked from them was Its no Good. Ever since Alan Wilder left the band, they have journeyed down a thrash/punk ave that i did not much care for.
Erasure has a timeless quality to their music...all there songs are either like love letters or anthems of strife...
The Cure's pictures of me is my fave song...
PSB are underated and their synch beats are second to none...I have their greatest hits cd and it never leaves the Car cd player...