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Thread: Hillary Gives 'KKK' Byrd Freedom Award

  1. #1
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    [color=green]So let me get this straight -- Ted Kennedy calls minority judicial candidates "neanderthals" and Hilliary praises a former klansman and no outrage from the media. Anyone remember the outrage from the left about Sen. Trent Lott praising Sen. Strom Thurmond at his birthday party?

    Nah. No left wing media bias!

    [/color]

    [SIZE=3][u][b]Hillary Gives 'KKK' Byrd Freedom Award[/b][/u][/SIZE]

    In a little-noticed ceremony before she flew off to attend Iowa's Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner Saturday night, Sen. Hillary Clinton presented [b]ex-Klansman-turned-Senator [/b]Robert Byrd with the Franklin Roosevelt Institute's Four Freedoms Award.

    [b]Addressing the crowd in Hyde Park, N.Y., Mrs. Clinton praised Byrd as a mentor, saying he provided a wonderful example for her.[/b]

    "When I think of the Senate, I think of Robert Byrd," the former first lady said, according to an account in the Hyde Park Townsman.

    It was during Roosevelt's third presidential term that Byrd joined the Klan, saying he wanted to fight communism. And though he left within a year, he continued to advise Klan leaders on how to expand the influence of the anti-black terror group.

    In 1971, Byrd co-sponsored a measure to have the Senate's main office building named after Sen. Richard Russell, an unabashed white supremacist who led the fight against anti-lynching legislation in the Senate.

    "He was kind of my mentor," Byrd said recently, noting that Sen. Russell was known as an expert on Senate rules, much like himself.

    [b]In 2001 Byrd was forced to apologize after he blurted out the "N"-word twice during a nationally televised interview.[/b]

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    The annoying thing is that Hillary is just doing the normal, bland, politicain-speak clap-trap all of them do and what Lott was doing too. You know she doens't care about Byrd or anything. It's ceremonial garbage. Things like this should go unnoticed, just like things like Lott's remarks should.

    But I agree that the unbalanced shrieks are annoying. Not saying I want the GOP to race-bait, but it does show a bit of hypocrisy, agreed.


    Howard Dean is feeling the wrath of the reactionary, race-bating left a bit. Dean brought a valid point about wanting to include Southerners into his tent and that demographic IS vital to the Dems in the general election. However, he may have said it clumsily. But he was attacked like hell for it - they pounced! I actually like him more now that he didn't apologize (well, he sort of did)..screw the race-baiters. Could you IMAGINE getting lectured about being a racist from Al Sharpton!!!??! He called Jesse Jackson's son an Uncle Tom for supporting a white guy, slandered a good cop and indirectly caused the killings of people at Freddie's Fashion Mart, and has NEVER apologized and wears that almost as a badge of courage! But Al can do it cause God forbid anyone accuses a black man of being racist- that's racist! But it ISN'T racist to have minorities (even wealthy ones) get into colleges with lower standards...but I digress (often!).

    (Dean did give up crucial intellectual ground when he said that the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol, because once he admits that he wants the racist vote he opens himself up to a variety of charges - "Do you want the KKK vote too, Howard?") He should have not said that - but he cannot escape his victim-group pandering completely! The Confederate Flag symolizes many things. People out there think the American Flag is a symbol of "oppression." It's hilarious - things all symbolize different things to different people. Unfortunately, we are now in a climate where actual meaning ceased to have sway, and we are into "perceptions" and "feelings." Racism does not mean what it used to - it now means, "Anything that a minority considers to be racist." It doesn't matter if something actually IS racist - it just matters that some designated victim group considers it to be so. Feelings are all the rage and are valid solely on the basis of their existence, especially if you are a woman, a minority or homosexual.

    Remember that Rutgers President who accused his board of being niggardly cause they wouldn't fund something he wanted? A black board member felt that this was "racist" even though that word means "cheap." It is not even what you say or even what you MEAN, it is what others FEEL about it. This guy had to step down. UNREAL!


    Remember when Shaquille O'Neal did fast-Chinese gibberish when some guy asked him abou Yao Ming?! Not a WORD from the left condemning him for it.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb[/i]@Nov 21 2003, 06:19 PM
    [b] In a little-noticed ceremony before she flew off to attend Iowa's Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner Saturday night, Sen. Hillary Clinton presented Senator Robert Byrd with the Franklin Roosevelt Institute's Four Freedoms Award.

    Addressing the crowd in Hyde Park, N.Y., Mrs. Clinton praised Byrd as a mentor, saying he provided a wonderful example for her.

    "When I think of the Senate, I think of Robert Byrd," the former first lady said, according to an account in the Hyde Park Townsman.

    In 1971, Byrd co-sponsored a measure to have the Senate's main office building named after Sen. Richard Russell, an unabashed white supremacist who led the fight against anti-lynching legislation in the Senate.

    "He was kind of my mentor," Byrd said recently, noting that Sen. Russell was known as an expert on Senate rules, much like himself.

    [/b][/quote]
    I was in Hyde Park last Saturday for the Four Freedom's Award and for the dedication of the new Wallace Visitor Center. It was a wonderful event. Among the many speakers was Doris Kearns Goodwin. Her speech was a powerful statement on the challenges that America faces today.

    If you ever have the chance to visit the FDR Library and Mansion in Hyde Park, NY you should do it. Its magnificent!

    Weeb.. you'd do well to read Robert Caro's book "Master of the Senate" its the 3rd volume of his marvelous multi-volume biography of Lyndon Johnson. In it Caro chronicles Johnson's senate career. A large portion of the book is dedicated to the life of Richard Russell. I think you might find it interesting.

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    From whom did Doris Kearns Goodwin "borrow" her speech from this time? I guess she recounted all the wonderful things she allowed LBJ to do to her, as was more than rumored.

    LBJ was the thief and scumbag Clinton only dreamed of being. I don't care for Ted Kennedy, but by most accounts JFK was a decent president nothwithstanding his now well-documented pecadilloes(in a time were those things really didn't matter). That this scoundrel succeeded him was a national disaster-the micromanaging of Vietnam, the fiasco of the Great Society, the immigration laws being trampled.

    I would never vote for Dean, but I can see that he's a man of substance and ideas, even if I disagree with them.Him having to answer to Al Sharpton about anything shows how laugable the Dems have become.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@Nov 21 2003, 09:36 PM
    [b] From whom did Doris Kearns Goodwin "borrow" her speech from this time? [/b][/quote]
    Clearly no one. She spoke about her son who's a 2nd Lt. in the Army who's currently serving Iraq. BTW I was close enough to her to see that her speach was hand written on yellow legal paper.

    bugg... a great deal of your post sure illustrates your ignorance.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb[/i]@Nov 21 2003, 06:19 PM
    [b] [color=green]So let me get this straight -- Ted Kennedy calls minority judicial candidates "neanderthals" and Hilliary praises a former klansman and no outrage from the media. Anyone remember the outrage from the left about Sen. Trent Lott praising Sen. Strom Thurmond at his birthday party?

    Nah. No left wing media bias!

    [/color]

    [SIZE=3][u][b]Hillary Gives 'KKK' Byrd Freedom Award[/b][/u][/SIZE]

    In a little-noticed ceremony before she flew off to attend Iowa's Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner Saturday night, Sen. Hillary Clinton presented [b]ex-Klansman-turned-Senator [/b]Robert Byrd with the Franklin Roosevelt Institute's Four Freedoms Award.

    [b]Addressing the crowd in Hyde Park, N.Y., Mrs. Clinton praised Byrd as a mentor, saying he provided a wonderful example for her.[/b]

    "When I think of the Senate, I think of Robert Byrd," the former first lady said, according to an account in the Hyde Park Townsman.

    It was during Roosevelt's third presidential term that Byrd joined the Klan, saying he wanted to fight communism. And though he left within a year, he continued to advise Klan leaders on how to expand the influence of the anti-black terror group.

    In 1971, Byrd co-sponsored a measure to have the Senate's main office building named after Sen. Richard Russell, an unabashed white supremacist who led the fight against anti-lynching legislation in the Senate.

    "He was kind of my mentor," Byrd said recently, noting that Sen. Russell was known as an expert on Senate rules, much like himself.

    [b]In 2001 Byrd was forced to apologize after he blurted out the "N"-word twice during a nationally televised interview.[/b] [/b][/quote]
    Byrd, a klansman by trade whose hero was an old-time senator who tried to shoot down anti-lynching laws 150-years ago apologizes for using the "N" word twice and he's given a Freedom Award by Hitlery.

    Trent Lott jokes around at Strom Thurmond's 100th and he is forced to turn over his political duties (which I think he should've).

    The President of the U.S. comes out and blantantly states Lotot's statements, even in jest, were wrong, yet the Rats and hollywood liberals (Bellafante-Glover) still try and brandish the President as a borderline racist. What a crock!

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    Doris Kearns Goodwin on several occasions has been caught red-handed lifting whole passages from books written by others and presenting them as her own. That's called plagiarism, and amongst writers, it's about as low as you can go. And it's well-documented that she had a close personal relationship with LBJ that at a minimum went beyond business. History is clear that Cold Warrior JFK was a superior president to crooked LBJ. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any historian, left or right(except Goodwin) who would think otherwise.

    And having said that, may God watch over and protect Ms. Goodwin's brave son.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@Nov 21 2003, 10:19 PM
    [b] Doris Kearns Goodwin on several occasions has been caught red-handed lifting whole passages from books written by others and presenting them as her own. [/b][/quote]
    Wrong. The controversy had to do with improper footnoting not lifting whole passages.

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    Wrongo, Ringo-PLAGIARISM-

    A Historian and Her Sources
    Doris Kearns Goodwin's borrowed material.
    by Bo Crader
    01/28/2002, Volume 007, Issue 19


    IN 1993 HISTORIAN Doris Kearns Goodwin complained that Joe McGinniss had borrowed extensively for his "The Last Brother" from her 1987 book "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys." "He just uses it flat out, without saying that it came from my work," Goodwin told the Boston Globe. "You expect that another writer would acknowledge that," Goodwin continued. "It's inexplicable why it wasn't done."

    Now, it's Goodwin's use of source material that requires explication.

    Two weeks ago in this magazine, Fred Barnes reported on the striking similarities between Stephen E. Ambrose's "The Wild Blue" and Thomas Childers's "Wings of Morning." Subsequently, The Weekly Standard received a letter pointing out that Goodwin's "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys" borrowed with insufficient attribution from three earlier works by other authors.

    An examination of the works in question confirmed the correspondent's allegation.

    One source for Goodwin was Hank Searls's 1969 "The Lost Prince: Young Joe, the Forgotten Kennedy." Searls describes Joe Kennedy's disappointing last game on the Harvard football squad:

    "Joe had shivered on benches from West Point on the Hudson to Dartmouth in the mountains of New Hampshire." (p. 101)

    Eighteen years later, Goodwin writes that Joe Kennedy was

    "shivering on benches from West Point on the Hudson to Dartmouth in the mountains of New Hampshire." (p. 507)

    Searls describes the scene after the 1937 Harvard victory over Yale:

    "He turned helplessly to his old classmate Campbell, then fought his way blindly through hysterical fans to the field to comfort his son." (p. 105)

    Here's Goodwin:

    "[He] turned helplessly to Tommy Campbell, then fought his way through the hysterical fans to provide solace to his son." (p. 508)

    Searls writes that

    "Naval pilot training held coldly to the premise that it was better to remove the accident-prone early, before too much time and money had been wasted on him." (p. 178)

    Goodwin changes a few words:

    "Naval pilot training held coldly to the premise that it was best to remove those who couldn't conquer the tensions of flying early, before too much time and money had been wasted on them." (p. 622)

    In an interview, Searls acknowledges the similarities. There's "a certain amount of license," he says. "She changed a few words, which seems to me to be within bounds of journalistic ethics, although I myself always tried to give credit to authors I used."

    In another instance, Goodwin's prose mirrors that of Rose Kennedy's 1974 autobiography, "Times to Remember." Kennedy writes:

    "I ran upstairs and awakened Joe. I stood for a few moments with my mind half paralyzed. I tried to speak but stumbled over the words. Then I managed to blurt out that priests were here with that message. He leaped from the bed and hurried downstairs, I following him. We sat with the priests in a smaller room off the living room, and from what they told us we realized that there could be no hope, and that our son was dead." (p. 301)

    The corresponding passage in Goodwin's book differs mainly in changing perspective from the first to third person:

    "Rose ran upstairs and burst into her husband's room. Waking him, she stood for a few moments, her mind half paralyzed, trying to speak but stumbling over her words. Then she managed to blurt out what the two priests had said. Joe Senior rushed down and escorted the priests into a small room off the living room. There he and Rose heard the story which made it clear that there could be no hope. Their eldest son was dead." (p. 689)



    BUT THE MOST striking borrowing is from Lynne McTaggart's 1983 "Kathleen Kennedy: Her Life and Times."

    McTaggart, for example, writes that

    "her [Kathleen's] closest friends assumed that she and Billy were 'semiengaged.' On the day of the party reports of a secret engagement were published in the Boston papers. . . . The truth was that the young couple had reached no such agreement." (p. 65)

    The corresponding passage in Goodwin's book differs by just a few words:

    "her [Kathleen's] closest friends assumed she and Billy were semi-engaged. On the day of the party, reports of a secret engagement were published in the Boston papers. . . . The truth was that the young couple had reached no such agreement." (p. 586)

    McTaggart:

    "Hardly a day passed without a photograph in the papers of little Teddy, taking a snapshot with his Brownie held upside down, or the five Kennedy children lined up on a train or bus." (p. 25)

    Goodwin:

    "Hardly a day passed without a newspaper photograph of little Teddy taking a snapshot with his camera held upside down, or the five Kennedy children lined up on a train or bus." (p. 523)

    McTaggart:

    "Mrs. Gibson gave a tea in her honor to introduce her to some of the other girls--hardly a routine practice for new recruits." (p. 130)

    Goodwin:

    "Mrs. Harvey Gibson gave a tea in her honor to introduce her to some of the other girls--hardly a routine practice for new recruits." (p. 666)

    There are dozens more such parallels in "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys."

    The treatment of McTaggart's work as a source changed after the first edition of Goodwin's book. The changes were not accompanied by any acknowledgment of defects in the earlier edition. And to this day, the borrowed passages are not placed in quotation marks, though they are now footnoted.

    The 2001 edition of "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys" contains 40 endnotes citing McTaggart that were not in the first edition. And the preface to the latest edition of Goodwin's book includes the following paragraph: "In the preparation of this work, I was grateful for Lynne McTaggart's biography, "Kathleen Kennedy: Her Life and Times," which is the definitive biography of Kathleen Kennedy and which I used as a primary source for information on Kathleen Kennedy, both in my research and in my writing." McTaggart was not mentioned in the preface to the first edition. Yet the dateline of the preface in both editions reads "November 1986," as if nothing had been added.

    McTaggart, in a phone interview, says that she is unable to comment on or discuss the matter.

    David Rosenthal, a spokesman for Simon & Schuster, publisher of "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys," says that an "understanding" was reached between Goodwin and McTaggart. "In the original book there were some mistakes made," he says. "Those mistakes were corrected. Doris acknowledged the mistake to McTaggart, and they reached an understanding on how those mistakes should be corrected. The error was inadvertent. Back then, Doris kept notes on long legal pads and some papers got shuffled. It was corrected as soon as she became aware of the error."



    IN RESPONSE to my questions, Goodwin explains, "I wrote everything in longhand in those days, including the notes I took on secondary sources. When I wrote the passages in question, I did not have the McTaggart book in front of me. Drawing on my notes, I did not realize that in some cases they constituted a close paraphrase of the original work."

    She confirms that McTaggart contacted her shortly after the book appeared in 1987. "I acknowledged immediately that she was right, that she should have been footnoted more fully. She asked that more footnotes be added and a paragraph crediting her book. This was done in the paperback edition."

    Goodwin continues, "This was brought to a satisfactory conclusion 15 years ago. And learning from this, I have made it a constant practice to use quotations in the text itself and to have the original source directly in front of me when I am writing."

    Why weren't the passages ever put in quotation marks? "Had she asked for more quotations in the text," says Goodwin, "I would have done it."

    Professional norms in the crediting of source material are not, however, matters of lawyer-like negotiation between authors and their sources. There is a right way and a wrong way to do these things. As Goodwin put it in her 1993 complaint against McGinnis:

    "There's nothing wrong with an author building on material from a previous book. That's the way history is built, as long as you credit the source. . . . I just don't understand why that wasn't done."


    Bo Crader is an editorial assistant at The Weekly Standard.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@Nov 22 2003, 12:09 AM
    [b] IN RESPONSE to my questions, Goodwin explains, "I wrote everything in longhand in those days, including the notes I took on secondary sources. When I wrote the passages in question, I did not have the McTaggart book in front of me. Drawing on my notes, I did not realize that in some cases they constituted a close paraphrase of the original work."

    She confirms that McTaggart contacted her shortly after the book appeared in 1987. "I acknowledged immediately that she was right, that she should have been footnoted more fully. She asked that more footnotes be added and a paragraph crediting her book. This was done in the paperback edition."

    Goodwin continues, "This was brought to a satisfactory conclusion 15 years ago. And learning from this, I have made it a constant practice to use quotations in the text itself and to have the original source directly in front of me when I am writing."

    Bo Crader is an editorial assistant at The Weekly Standard. [/b][/quote]
    Plagiarism, did you even read the article that you posted? Somehow I doubt it. Like I said the controversy had to do with footnoting, even your own post clearly states that.

    Hey bugg... I have doubts that you've ever even read a whole book. Do yourself a favor and go down to your local library tomorrow, get a card, borrow a book and enjoy.

    BTW, the Weekly Standard is a crap publication.

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    Once again, in his typical liberal democrat fashion, tailgators tries to change the subject.

    The point of this post is about pure unadulterated hypocracy. If the media and the dems makes a big deal about Trent Lott praising his fellow senator Strom Thurmond at his birthday party,

    then why does the same crowd ignore Her Highness praising a former klansman, Robert Byrd?

    I guess tailgators has sympathy for a former klansman -- as long as he's a democrat. Ignoring the past of a klansman is racist. Isn't it, my bigoted friend tailgators?

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    When you don't have the facts on your side, call people names. Lovely-and childish.

    I'd respond with nasty, pejorative language, but that doesn't get anywhere. I'm sorry that I had to break your heart about the quality (or lack thereof) of Ms. Goodwin's research and sourcing. Again, God bless her son.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@Nov 22 2003, 03:23 PM
    [b] I'd respond with nasty, pejorative language, but that doesn't get anywhere. I'm sorry that I had to break your heart about the quality (or lack thereof) of Ms. Goodwin's research and sourcing. [/b][/quote]
    Only in this ridiculous forum could a Pulitzer Prize winning author and world renowned University Professer like Doris Kearns Goodwin be subjected to such vile attacks, and by someone nicknamed "bugg". Totally pathetic.

    bugg...how are you qualified to make a judge the quality of Mrs. Goodwins research anyway? Do you teach at Harvard?

    BTW...How many Pulitzer Prizes have you won?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Nov 22 2003, 06:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Nov 22 2003, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Bugg[/i]@Nov 22 2003, 03:23 PM
    [b] I&#39;d respond with nasty, pejorative language, but that doesn&#39;t get anywhere. I&#39;m sorry that I had to break your heart about the quality (or lack thereof) of Ms. Goodwin&#39;s research and sourcing. [/b][/quote]
    Only in this ridiculous forum could a Pulitzer Prize winning author and world renowned University Professer like Doris Kearns Goodwin be subjected to such vile attacks, and by someone nicknamed "bugg". Totally pathetic.

    bugg...how are you qualified to make a judge the quality of Mrs. Goodwins research anyway? Do you teach at Harvard?

    BTW...How many Pulitzer Prizes have you won? [/b][/quote]
    Tail - this is by far your most pathetic showing ever. This is bad even for you.

  15. #15
    I admit I don&#39;t have much knowledge of U.S. politics or not nearly as much as anyone here so here is a question. How is a former Klans man a democrat? Isn&#39;t that almost self-defeating?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 22 2003, 09:05 PM
    [b] Tail - This is bad. [/b][/quote]
    The Four Freedom&#39;s Award Ceremony and the Opening of the new Wallace Visitors Center last Saturday in Hyde Park was a magnificent event. I&#39;m glad I was there. Since weeb brought it up in such a nasty fashion, I thought the perspective of someone who actually attended the event might be welcome here. Predictably though the typical nastiness of this forum never fails to disappoint.

    What else should I expect from a bunch of internet messageboard junkies?

    You fools aren&#39;t to be taken seriously.

    Lastly, as a point of order the Four Freedom&#39;s Medals are awarded by the [i]Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt Institute[/i], not by the person intoducing the honoree. So when weeb says that Senator Hillary Clinton presented the award to Senator Byrd, he&#39;s incorrect. She merely introduced him.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jetlag[/i]@Nov 22 2003, 09:28 PM
    [b] I admit I don&#39;t have much knowledge of U.S. politics or not nearly as much as anyone here so here is a question. How is a former Klans man a democrat? Isn&#39;t that almost self-defeating? [/b][/quote]
    Regretably in the years following the civil war through the 1960&#39;s the Democratic Party in the south was dominated by racists. Fortunatly, today the Republicans have now inherited this constituancy.

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    Facts are tricky, eh?


    As to your smear of Republicans-
    -David Duke was denounced by the GOP every time he ran for office, and on one occasion Ronald Reagan endorsed his Dem opponent;
    -the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts in the 1960s were passed with the support of Republicans over the opposition of many Democrats(including Byrd);
    -Lincoln, you might recall, was a Republican;
    -Lott was removed from his Senate leadership post due to Republicans denouncing his moronic comments;
    -I would concede that Thurmmond was an embarrassment.

    As to Byrd-
    -he was a member of the KKK;
    -he&#39;s made numerous loony statements, in print, on tv and in letters, about the greatness of the South and states rights that Jeff Davis and Nathan Bedford Forrest(the KKK&#39;s founder) would have agreed with wholeheartedly;
    -he was a segregationist;
    -the Dems , for reasons never fully explained, made him their leader ;
    -and as leader, his primary agenda was more about getting West Virginia every piece of pork he could grab with both hands than anything approaching dignified statesmanship.

    It&#39;s been said that Byrd would have given the West Virginia National Guard a nuclear missile submarine if only he could find a navigable river in his home state. Which is another example of how we are still subject to wasteful spending programs by both parties.


    And this is the man Hillary&#33; chose to honor? Good for you. What a proud day.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@Nov 23 2003, 11:10 AM
    [b] Facts are tricky, eh?

    And this is the man Hillary&#33; chose to honor? Good for you. What a proud day. [/b][/quote]
    As I&#39;ve said, it was the [i]Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt Institute[/i] that chose to honor Senator Byrd, it wasn&#39;t Senator Clinton.

    As you say facts are tricky, pay attention will ya&#33;&#33;

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    Oh, that makes such a difference. You, others and Hillary&#33; ( either at gunpoint or in a parachute accidents rather than voluntarily,we are to assume ) by happenstance came to happen upon the insitute&#39;s affair to honor this wonderful racist and corrupt man. And Hillary&#33; just happened to make a speech extolling this cretin and his embarrassment of a career. Okay.

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