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Thread: Pakistan gave nuke info out

  1. #21
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 05:02 PM
    [b] weeb that's bull**** man. You make it sound like we aren't spilling blood every day... like its an either/or proposition... or even more ridiculous that liberals are controlling the US military and what it does!!!

    face it Weeb your side is the establishment. there are no more boogymen to blame the nation's shortcomings on. You have a republican president, 40 republican governors, a republican congress and damn near a republican majority in the high courts.

    if Bush's bribery fails its no one's fault but his own. in Bush's policies fail its no fault but his own.

    This war has already proven the fact that we as a nation don't give a s**t what ANYONE else thinks/says. And that goes double for "liberals around the world"

    you should listen to yourself sometimes...
    laughable, man really. [/b][/quote]
    What do we do about Pakistan, then?

    Fight them or bribe them? Ignoring them is not an option. The UN has proven it's incompetance in keeping nukes away from these types. Pakistan has a nuke. Al Queda is there, wringing their hands, waiting for control of the bomb, trying to kill off the guy playing keep away.

    You want to simplify the world, let's concentrate on this one issue. So I ask: what do [b]YOU[/b] do? Forget Clinton, forget Bush. What does the all-knowing, all-seeing, all-calculating, anti-establishment, [b]bitonti[/b], do in this one case?

    Don't get mad at me, don't flood me with conspiracy -- just give me your solution.

  2. #22
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    i tell pakistan to burn in hell

    exactly what the f have they done for us? seriously? their intel is for crap... their borders are janky... they gave out all their nuke secrets already

    so why the F should we bribe them?

    bottom line you can buy the dictator's support but the street HATES US with a capital H. There are more "terrorists" in Pakistan than there are anyplace else besides Saudi

    frankly i'd spend the money making AMERICA safer by suring up the borders or researching alternative fuels... s**t even fixing the hubble telescope is a better plan than making that brutal military dicatator Monsuraff's palaces nicer

  3. #23
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 05:35 PM
    [b] i tell pakistan to burn in hell [/b][/quote]
    Then you give Osama the bomb and we all burn in hell together.

    Game over.

  4. #24
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    Weeb cmon you really believe that if we don't give 700M to pakistan then OSAMA gets the A bomb?

    i thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists

    according to you not only to we negotiate but we pay through the nose

  5. #25
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 07:10 PM
    [b] Weeb cmon you really believe that if we don't give 700M to pakistan then OSAMA gets the A bomb?

    i thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists

    according to you not only to we negotiate but we pay through the nose [/b][/quote]
    If we stop supporting Musharif, Osama gets the bomb. If the current Pakistani government gets replaced, which type of political party replaces him (no not liberal democrats)?

    If Musharif is a terrorist, why have terrorists tried to assasinate him six times? I know, I know {remove foil hat}...Haliburton hired goons to bump him of to keep Bush and Cheney in office...

  6. #26
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    so in your assessment pakistan is blackmailing us... and you have no problems with that?

  7. #27
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 6 2004, 01:30 PM
    [b] so in your assessment pakistan is blackmailing us... and you have no problems with that? [/b][/quote]
    What does [i]having a problem with it[/i] have to do with anything?

    I have a problem with the fact that I am not the starting shortstop for the Yankees....

  8. #28
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    5ever cmon you can't actually believe that if we don't give Pakistan 700M in aid then they will give Bin Ladin the bomb...

    you guys call me a consipiracy theorist why the F would anyone a jackass like Bin Ladin a nuclear warhead - its madness

  9. #29
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    Put it this way - leaving (or creating) a power vaccuum in Pakistan is far, far worse than giving Musarraff money, regardless of my personal opinion of Musaraff.

    Circumstances dictate actions.....

  10. #30
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    i didn't say invade Pakistan i said let them burn in hell

    how exactly does 700M in foreign aid guaruntee that Pakistan will remain the paragon of stability that it is today? <_<

  11. #31
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    Bitont -

    Define "burn in hell."

    If you mean "nuke" the place then you are violating virtually EVERY shred of logic you have ever used on this issue regarding "symptoms and root causes" "isolationism" etc.

    Please - blind me with your "bar-room" insight...I am literally convulsing with anticipation...

  12. #32
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    i mean cut aid.... why should we pay them jack squat? what the F have they done for us?

  13. #33
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    I&#39;d think you hardline neocons would LOVE for Mussarhef&#39;s dictatorship to fall.

    Then we&#39;d have an excuse for invading the place, quite frankly a MUCH more lucid excuse than we ever did for invading Iraq.

    We could get India&#39;s army and intelligence to provide half the cost, as they&#39;d be chomping at the bit to help. Secure the borders, hunt down Al Queda in the tribal lands, and spend the 700m+ rebuilding THEM as the "liberal democracy" you folks claim Iraq is going to become.

    I&#39;m not even being 100% sarcastic here either; I might not be thrilled to death about some of the semantics and cost, but if we had gone after Pakistan from the start with all the rhetoric of OBL hiding there, dealing with the fact Pakistan has legit nukes, and is full of many worse islamic zealots than Iraq, I&#39;d have been more willing to buy what you guys are selling. Just as I was fine with the Afghanistan invasion post 9/11, and would not be complaining if they had sent 50,000 troops there to scour the border and find OBL instead of invading Iraq.

    BTW, we could go around in circles all day pointing fingers at every Administration going back to FDR for not doing enough or the "right" thing regarding the Middle East in hindsight, but bitonti does have a point: what exactly has Bush done about North Korea? What did he do about Afghanistan or Al Queda prior to 9/11? Iraq was on his agenda from day one, so no need to ask that question. Sure 10 months in office is a LOT less time than Clinton&#39;s 8 years, but I don&#39;t recall any of that time spent opening the dialogue about and funding things like HSA, immigration solutions (now he&#39;s even letting more of them in for cheap labor), and fighting Middle Eastern terrorism.

  14. #34
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    Jet Set -

    What should Bush have done about N Korea? Sign another meaningless bi-lateral treaty, or invade?

    Which of those solutions do you prefer, because apart from pressuring NK&#39;s neighbors to in turn pressure NK, those are the only other options.


    I know what Dean wants to do - sign another meaningless treaty, hold a press conference to talk about the significance of said treaty, and then everybody feels all nice and fuzzy inside, meanwhile the nuke production-line continues unabated in N Korea, funded by US dollars.

    Seriously - what should Bush have done that he didn&#39;t do in N Korea that is worthy of your criticisms?? Saying things like &#39;Bush has done nothing" is absurd and empty rhetoric. What, exactly, should he have done...acted on flimsy, unproven intel? Invaded unilaterally, pissed off our allies, risked hundreds of US lives, spent billions, diverted resources from Afganistan and probably have had to occupy and rebuild the country for years? What? Seriously, I want to know exactly what you think he should have done....

  15. #35
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    What I find really funny about this discussion is that I would be more concerned about China having Nukes and WMD. Furthermore, they have this stuff and will gladly use it as a bargaining chip both now and in the future to get what ever they want with regards to trade. The key component here is that the majority of the countries that have been discussed here have gotten much of their military technology from ISRAEL. Sorry but this is the truth not anti-semitism as many would like to use to skirt the dark truth. Not to mention that our American weapons and weapons systems manufacturers have invested heavily in Israel so that they can sell arms to just about anybody in the world without having to get Congressional approval. Before you guys waste your rhetoric and argue about the Pakistani&#39;s or this country or that country just look at our own weapons and weapons systems manufacturers and their Israeli connection.

    DURING THE COLD WAR ISRAEL PROFITED FROM SELLING OUR MILITARY SECRETS TO THE RUSSIANS. TOWARDS THE END OF THE RUSSIAN COMMUNIST REGIME, ISRAEL BEGAN SELLING OUR MILITARY SECRETS TO CHINA WHO TURNED AROUND AND SOLD IT RIGHT BACK TO IRAN, IRAQ, PAKISTAN AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED WITH GREAT CONCERN ON THIS BOARD. ISRAEL IS SOME ALLY?

    IF YOU ARE JEWISH DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEMITISM OR ANTI-SEMITISM. SAVE THE RACE CARD FOR ANOTHER DAY&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

  16. #36
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    Outsider: I agree with your assertations about Israel, but be prepared for the anti-semite chants. I mean anyone who disagrees with our relations with Israel or Israel&#39;s policies is an anti-semite. Why should anyone have a problem with quaruntining Palestinians with razor wire fences? Thank God Leiberman dropped out.

  17. #37
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Feb 9 2004, 11:04 AM
    [b] Outsider: I agree with your assertations about Israel, but be prepared for the anti-semite chants. I mean anyone who disagrees with our relations with Israel or Israel&#39;s policies is an anti-semite. Why should anyone have a problem with quaruntining Palestinians with razor wire fences? Thank God Leiberman dropped out. [/b][/quote]
    Re: Palestinians

    Why do you think all of the other Arab countries forbid them from living in their countries? I mean, there are 50 neighboring states with more than enough land. Why can&#39;t the Palestinians live there? The Arab countries have already shown an ability to force "Palestinians" out of their homes, they had them ove to get out of the way of the advancing armies back in the 40&#39;s.

    Why not just move them again, since they are the same, ethnically, as those Arabs presently living in Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt. Then the oppression of the Palestinians would be abated...I thought that is the entire crux of the complaints?


    Or, do you think, there is another issues at play, mainly, the right of Israel to exist.


    Extra Credit question:

    How mant times have the Arabs invaded Israel? Extra Extra credit - how many times have the Arabs invaded Israel while they were in control of what is now called the West Bank and Gaza?


    You&#39;d think that these facts would matter more to young liberals:

    1) The Arabs have invaded Israel multiple times, even while in control of the very territory they claim to now only want for the sake of "peace" and the "Palestinians."

    2) There is more than enough land in other Arab countries for the Palestinians, however other countries inexplicably forbid Palestinians to live there AND yet openly talk about how they lament their "suffering."

    3) There was no such thing as a "Palestinian" prior to 1947 - they are the same Arabs that lived in what was then called Transjordan, Lebanon and Syria. They were never called "Palestinians" until AFTER Israel was created and the Arabs invaded and told them to move.

  18. #38
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    5ever

    its not just LAND that Palestinians want. cuz yeah you are right there is plenty of land out there.

    its the HOLY LAND... and its not just jews who want it... there are millions and millions of christians all over the world who are happier seeing Israel controlled by the Hebrews then by the Moors.

    what this all comes down to is all of this - and i mean ALL OF IT

    is nothing more than the Crusades, Chapter 37. Judeo-Christians already hold the birthplace of Jesus in Israel now they own the cradle of civilization, mythical location of Eden.

    religion + OIL = indefinate war

    terrorism will never be stopped as long as the US occupy nations in the ME. its not like Japan, Korea or Germany... the people in ME have the WILL to stay true to their cultural roots.

  19. #39
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 9 2004, 11:17 AM
    [b] 5ever

    its not just LAND that Palestinians want. cuz yeah you are right there is plenty of land out there.

    its the HOLY LAND... and its not just jews who want it... there are millions and millions of christians all over the world who are happier seeing Israel controlled by the Hebrews then by the Moors.

    what this all comes down to is all of this - and i mean ALL OF IT

    is nothing more than the Crusades, Chapter 37. Judeo-Christians already hold the birthplace of Jesus in Israel now they own the cradle of civilization, mythical location of Eden. [/b][/quote]
    Bitonti -

    They don&#39;t want Israel to exist. That&#39;s a fact, jack. You talk endlessly about the Crusades and never mention that Arab Muslims have violently tries to spread their religion all over the place too.

    The bottom line is this:

    One side is willing to have a cohabitated peace and is even willing to give up a conserable amount of land to do it. Israel has repreatedly offered almost 98% of the land space sought by the &#39;Palestinians.&#39;

    The other side is not, never has been and never will be. Hamas and Islamic Jihad have said repeatedly that they do not care whatever gets negotiated, they will NEVER atop until the Jews are ushing to the sea. Crusades my A&#036;&#036;.

    Negotiations are fruitless BECAUSE the Palestinians are being exploited by the very Arabs who pretend to care so much about their plight.

    Foolish people with no regard for facts or history blindly support them and their &#39;cause&#39; like that stupid American girl who got mowed down by an Israeli tank.

  20. #40
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 9 2004, 12:17 PM
    [b] terrorism will never be stopped as long as the US occupy nations in the ME. its not like Japan, Korea or Germany... the people in ME have the WILL to stay true to their cultural roots. [/b][/quote]
    And the Japaneese were true to the emperor until they saw it wasn&#39;t going to work.

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