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Thread: Pakistan gave nuke info out

  1. #1
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    hey aren't these guys our BEST ALLIES in the war on terror? :ph34r:

    the Bush foreign policy: making the world a safer place

    [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,2763,1140386,00.html]http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0...1140386,00.html[/url]

    and about 10000 other links (not FOXNEWS)

  2. #2
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 4 2004, 05:24 PM
    [b] hey aren't these guys our BEST ALLIES in the war on terror? :ph34r:
    [/b][/quote]
    No, I think that would be the U.K.

    bit, they are all back-stabbing self-serving garbage when you get right down to it: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Israel...

    Much like successful intelligence gathering, sometimes you have to smile and make nice with garbage to advance the interests of your own country. I'm sure Musharraf in many ways is just as much of a dog as the rest of them. He just happens to be ruling the country where OBL (presumably) and much of Al Qaeda are living. He also happens to be providing tangible, extensive and much needed assistance in battling Al Qaeda and other radical islamic sects (to save his own neck as well, for sure)...

    Not really sure what the News Flash is here.

  3. #3
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    Bitonti - what do you suggest the USA does about the fact that there are unsavory characters in positions of power all throughout the ME, some with a tenuous (at best) hold of control ober their peoples, many of which are warring tribal factions creating a dangerous instability.

    How in the hell does this reflect on Bush? What would you have him do...invade Pakistan? Would we be better off if Musaraff loses whatever power he has and the country falls prey completely to terrorists - which may happen anyway.

    How did Clinton make Pakistan safer? How would any other President?

    Are you ignorantly partisan about [i]everything[/i]? The god-damn link you posted says this was going on during Billy's term and well before that and at least until 1997. What, exactly, should Bush do? Musaraff was already around and in power when he became President.

    Seriously?! C'mon buddy...you have all the knowledge when it comes to what we do wrong, how about coming up with a coherent strategy to make Pakistan better.


    Don't you understand that your dig on Bush makes absolutely no sense? If anything, it shows that "information sharing" among rogue regimes is a huge national security factor and again illustrates the threat we face. Oh, right, I forgot...N Korea signed a treaty with us in 1994 and Clinton bit his lip and talked about a good future...is that enough for you?

    These same people are *****ing at Bush for not engaging in bi-lateral talks with N Korea. Amazing. Guess what? We tried that already and N Korea didn't keep their word!

    You AMAZE me sometimes, dude....

  4. #4
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    Liberal American traitors enraptured with the most powerful socialist state on the planet started the ball rolling by giving American nuke secrets to the Soviets. The Soviets, in turn, gave the info to it's ally, Pakistan.

    So what's your point?

    Close your eyes, plug your ears and cry like a baby or deal with it intelligently. The world went to hell in a handbasket while democrats and liberals plugged their ears, closed their eyes and cried like babies: "[b][i]The CIA is too powerful![/i][/b]" And when they controlled the purse strings, they did something about it -- neutered the intelligence and military communities.

    Yeah, lets repeat the same old mistakes -- drop Pakistan as an ally, their too dirty to deal with.

    [i]Liberals, huh, what are they good for,
    Absolutely nothin' -- say it again...[/i]

  5. #5
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    hows this for a news flash

    [quote][b]
    [b]financial times
    [i]Bush wants aid reward for allies in terror war[/i]
    By Salamander Davoudi in Washington
    Published: February 3 2004 21:55 | Last Updated: February 3 2004 21:55[/b]


    President George W. Bush has asked Congress for more than $5.7bn to provide economic, security and military assistance to countries supporting the US war on terrorism.


    [b]"The major recipients of this assistance will be Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt and Jordan. If you add the numbers up these countries get a huge chunk of the money," said a senior State Department official.[/b]

    Several of these countries, which have long been recipients of US aid, have poor records of governance and observance of human rights. They continue to receive aid despite Mr Bush's statement in October setting out a "forward strategy of freedom in the Middle East" and condemning previous western support of authoritarian regimes in the region as part of the Cold War.

    [/b][/quote]

    don't worry who's paying for it, dubya is chargin it to the game

    didn't Bush do this in his other times in charge? oil companies... baseball teams... economies - don't worry Dubya will run it into the ground but make a mint in the process for himself and everyone around him.

  6. #6
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 4 2004, 05:24 PM
    [b] hey aren't these guys our BEST ALLIES in the war on terror? :ph34r:

    the Bush foreign policy: making the world a safer place

    [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,2763,1140386,00.html]http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0...1140386,00.html[/url]

    and about 10000 other links (not FOXNEWS) [/b][/quote]
    See, this post just represents the misguided, hypocritical thinking of the left.

    Were we too go and bomb Pakistan the liberals would be screaming "they were trying to help us defeat terrorism"...if we do nothing they sarcastically ask "these are our top allies against terrorism."

    Ditto for Sadaam Hussien.....damned if you do and damned if you don't with these clowns.

    The fact that clinton did nothing while Pakistan was the only nation in the world (on second thought I believe there was one other) that looked upon the Taliban in Afgahnistan as a legitimate goverment for five years...well that's alright!

  7. #7
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    [quote][b]they are all back-stabbing self-serving garbage when you get right down to it: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Israel...
    [/b][/quote]

    Anti-Semite!

  8. #8
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 4 2004, 11:17 PM
    [b] Were we too go and bomb Pakistan the liberals would be screaming "they were trying to help us defeat terrorism"...if we do nothing they sarcastically ask "these are our top allies against terrorism."

    Ditto for Sadaam Hussien.....damned if you do and damned if you don't with these clowns.

    The fact that clinton did nothing while Pakistan was the only nation in the world (on second thought I believe there was one other) that looked upon the Taliban in Afgahnistan as a legitimate goverment for five years...well that's alright! [/b][/quote]
    Amen, brother!

    During [b]Clinton[/b], Pakistan was [u]NOT[/u] our ally. During [b]Clinton[/b], Pakistan supported the Taliban and thus Al Queda. During [b]Clinton[/b], they were selling nuke secrets.

    Where was Clinton -- expert in foreign diplomacy? Where was his intelligence? What did he know and when did he know it? Didn't lob as much as a missile at a Pakistani aspirin factory!

    So, North Korea was buying nuke secrets from Pakistan. North Korea was also getting hush money from the Clinton "peace" machine. In effect, America was paying Pakistan for nuclear equipping North Korea. North Korea -- more dangerous to the world than Saddam Hussein!

    Hey all you neo-fiscally concerned liberals, you upset that your hard earned American tax dollars were being sent to Pakistan while a democrat was in office?

    Yes, lets investigate intelligence failures in 9/11 and Iraq. The media needs a scapegoat, and Americans need to finally know the truth, so lets fully investigate this. Let's go back as far as we need to and find out which politicians threw a monkey wrench into the American intelligence machine. Which past decisions led to our current situations. Who voted against funding and who voted against which of our offensive and defensive programs? Who voted to curtail human intelligence on the ground?

    Let's do it quick, before November. The undecided, voting public needs to know!

  9. #9
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    Remember, it was Torricelli who spear-headed the "we can't deal with unsavory characters in intelligence" movement.


    Robert f-ing Torricelli - awful Democrat.

    I watched a PBS special on the civil war last night. Guess which party wanted to end the war and just keep slavery legal, including making those brave black soldiers who fought alongside of them in defense of the union slaves again.

    Guess which party that was???

  10. #10
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 10:52 AM
    [b] I watched a PBS special on the civil war last night. Guess which party wanted to end the war and just keep slavery legal, including making those brave black soldiers who fought alongside of them in defense of the union slaves again.

    Guess which party that was??? [/b][/quote]
    Can you find a way to blame that on Ted Kennedy too?

  11. #11
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    so while you GOP spin doctors talk about the transgressions of Clinton's term

    what about the fact that Bush is giving 700m in aid to Pakistan THIS YEAR ALONE?

    its a slippery slope between strong economy and weak economy and Bush is bridging the gap so fast he might as well be on the US olympic luge team

    oh wait i forget i guess we have forgiven Pakistan for this ... before we knew about it? my bad for ever questioning the all-knowing wisdom of George "gentlemen's C" Bush

  12. #12
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb+Feb 5 2004, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Spirit of Weeb @ Feb 5 2004, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 4 2004, 11:17 PM
    [b] Were we too go and bomb Pakistan the liberals would be screaming "they were trying to help us defeat terrorism"...if we do nothing they sarcastically ask "these are our top allies against terrorism."

    Ditto for Sadaam Hussien.....damned if you do and damned if you don&#39;t with these clowns.

    The fact that clinton did nothing while Pakistan was the only nation in the world (on second thought I believe there was one other) that looked upon the Taliban in Afgahnistan as a legitimate goverment for five years...well that&#39;s alright&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Amen, brother&#33;

    During [b]Clinton[/b], Pakistan was [u]NOT[/u] our ally. During [b]Clinton[/b], Pakistan supported the Taliban and thus Al Queda. During [b]Clinton[/b], they were selling nuke secrets.

    Where was Clinton -- expert in foreign diplomacy? Where was his intelligence? What did he know and when did he know it? Didn&#39;t lob as much as a missile at a Pakistani aspirin factory&#33;

    So, North Korea was buying nuke secrets from Pakistan. North Korea was also getting hush money from the Clinton "peace" machine. In effect, America was paying Pakistan for nuclear equipping North Korea. North Korea -- more dangerous to the world than Saddam Hussein&#33;

    Hey all you neo-fiscally concerned liberals, you upset that your hard earned American tax dollars were being sent to Pakistan while a democrat was in office?

    Yes, lets investigate intelligence failures in 9/11 and Iraq. The media needs a scapegoat, and Americans need to finally know the truth, so lets fully investigate this. Let&#39;s go back as far as we need to and find out which politicians threw a monkey wrench into the American intelligence machine. Which past decisions led to our current situations. Who voted against funding and who voted against which of our offensive and defensive programs? Who voted to curtail human intelligence on the ground?

    Let&#39;s do it quick, before November. The undecided, voting public needs to know&#33; [/b][/quote]
    the phone was ringing but he couldn&#39;t answer it as both his hands were on the back of Monika&#39;s head :D

  13. #13
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 10:57 AM
    [b] so while you GOP spin doctors talk about the transgressions of Clinton&#39;s term

    what about the fact that Bush is giving 700m in aid to Pakistan THIS YEAR ALONE?

    its a slippery slope between strong economy and weak economy and Bush is bridging the gap so fast he might as well be on the US olympic luge team

    oh wait i forget i guess we have forgiven Pakistan for this ... before we knew about it? my bad for ever questioning the all-knowing wisdom of George "gentlemen&#39;s C" Bush [/b][/quote]
    The only reason we bring up the "C" word is because guys like you are blaming President Bush for everything that&#39;s out of whack in the world.

    You can&#39;t gut intelligence, gut the military, ignore and appease dangerous regimes, refuse to catch or kill terrorists yesterday and expect the future to be all rosey and bright today or tomorrow.

    If you truly were honest and unbiased, you&#39;d agree with this assessment.

    Al Queda keeps regrouping in Pakistan. That government is teetering between helping us eliminate Muslim fundamentalists and keeping their nuclear weapons out of the hands of those same lunatics. If we stop supporting Mussharif and what do you think will happen? If Al Queda gets a bomb, where in God&#39;s name is the first place they use it. Bingo&#33; At that point our economy becomes meaningless -- or are you that ignorant?

    You don&#39;t want America to deal unsavory nations. It&#39;s sounds all too familiar.

  14. #14
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    Weeb the sad truth is that 700M may or may not be used to fight terrorism. Pakistan is not controlling its borders or northern tribal lands... frankly they don&#39;t deserve this money, not for the job they are doing.

    if you were honest and unbiased you would realize all this amounts to is bribery, straight up.

  15. #15
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 01:10 PM
    [b] Weeb the sad truth is that 700M may or may not be used to fight terrorism. Pakistan is not controlling its borders or northern tribal lands... frankly they don&#39;t deserve this money, not for the job they are doing.

    if you were honest and unbiased you would realize all this amounts to is bribery, straight up. [/b][/quote]
    Bit..what you are saying is almost right...they are not doing a complete job. Are they doing a good job? I wouldn&#39;t go that far but they are doing a hell of a lot better then five years ago&#33;

    I&#39;m not a fan of Musharref but the fact is he has put his life on the line with actions and words and has almost paid the price several times the past few months. If Musharref was not doing a good job in the eyes of terrorists he would not be a target.

  16. #16
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    [quote][b]You can&#39;t gut intelligence, gut the military, ignore and appease dangerous regimes, refuse to catch or kill terrorists yesterday and expect the future to be all rosey and bright today or tomorrow.
    [/b][/quote]

    Did anyone ever consider that maybe the intelligence community was focusing on the wrong issues? Maybe if they shifted their attention away from protecting corporate interests they would have been able to focus on the real dangers to this country.

    Does anyone honestly believe that people releasing movies and software on the Internet, or 12 yr olds downloading music, or people watching free satalite tv warrent spending valuable FBI resources on? Do you consider these people terrorist like Ashcroft has claimed?

  17. #17
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 01:10 PM
    [b] if you were honest and unbiased you would realize all this amounts to is bribery, straight up. [/b][/quote]
    Of course it&#39;s bribery. But if bribery helps keep a nuke out of the hands of bin Laden, count me in. If it&#39;s a carrot to help us catch or kill him, count me in.

    Bribery comes in many forms: bribery to help us (Bush) or bribery not to hurt us (Clinton).

    We already know the latter didn&#39;t work, we&#39;ll see how the former goes.

  18. #18
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    weeb im sure you can understand my skepticism

    there&#39;s no guaruntee that 700M will do anything but pad Mounsuraff&#39;s personal domiciles

  19. #19
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 5 2004, 03:19 PM
    [b] weeb im sure you can understand my skepticism

    there&#39;s no guaruntee that 700M will do anything but pad Mounsuraff&#39;s personal domiciles [/b][/quote]
    If he&#39;s in power and want&#39;s to stay happy bathing in those good old American greenbacks, he&#39;ll help us. He&#39;s got no incentive to help otherwise.

    Liberals the world over have made sure that America strikes no other nation preemptively.

    Without the fear, all we&#39;ve got to offer is money and leave the world&#39;s watchdog, the UN, to prevent all the evils in the world from happening (like Pakistan, Libya, Iran and North Korea getting "the bomb").

    This is the way you chicken-doves want to play the game. Bribery or more spilled American blood -- you&#39;ve already made it quite clear which one is not an option you&#39;d choose.

  20. #20
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    weeb that&#39;s bull**** man. You make it sound like we aren&#39;t spilling blood every day... like its an either/or proposition... or even more ridiculous that liberals are controlling the US military and what it does&#33;&#33;&#33;

    face it Weeb your side is the establishment. there are no more boogymen to blame the nation&#39;s shortcomings on. You have a republican president, 40 republican governors, a republican congress and damn near a republican majority in the high courts.

    if Bush&#39;s bribery fails its no one&#39;s fault but his own. in Bush&#39;s policies fail its no fault but his own.

    This war has already proven the fact that we as a nation don&#39;t give a s**t what ANYONE else thinks/says. And that goes double for "liberals around the world"

    you should listen to yourself sometimes...
    laughable, man really.

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