Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Kerry's Congressional Statement on Iraq

  1. #1
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    These are statements made by Kerry-Kennedy in 1998 with respect to Saddam Hussein and Iraq. These are transcripts taken from the Congressional Record on the dates indicated. A few words from John McCain are also included as it happened on the Senate floor. In the absence of time, please read the red highlights, pause and wonder how these statements made by Kerry-Kennedy then, jive with the positions he's taken now.]

    INDICTMENT AND PROSECUTION OF SADDAM HUSSEIN (Senate - March 13, 1998)

    Mr. KERRY: Our world has come a long way since the dawn of civilization. As human beings have evolved biologically and eventually socially, we have come to realize that we can safely and happily live together on this globe only if we abide by certain rules of behavior. The course of civilization is, in large measure, the history of humankind's increasing and increasingly sophisticated efforts to define acceptable and unacceptable behavior--for individuals, groups, and nations, and our successes and failures to abide by those definitions and the consequences of those successes and failures.

    Other Senators, Mr. President, particularly the resolution's principal sponsor and a key cosponsor, the Senator from North Dakota [Mr. Dorgan], have set forth in considerable detail the bill of particulars against the dictator of Iraq. Those include documented chemical weapons attacks against Iranian troops and civilians in the Iran-Iraq War. They include chemical weapons attacks against Kurds in Iraq--Iraqi citizens, keep in mind--leaving behind the most revolting human injuries imaginable. Men, women, children, infants--no one was spared. Many died immediately. Many who managed to survive wished they had died. Some of them died later with no interruption in their agony--blindness, peeling skin, gaping sores, asphyxiation. And others, even if they did not evince the same signs of injury, have transmitted the horror of those attacks across time and even generations. Terrible birth defects have afflicted the offspring of many who survived Saddam Hussein's attacks. The rate of miscarriages and stillbirths has soared for those survivors.

    [b]We do not know why Saddam Hussein chose not to use these weapons against the Coalition troops in the Gulf War that resulted from his invasion and occupation of Kuwait. We do know that he had them in his inventory, and the means of delivering them. We do know that his chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons development programs were proceeding with his active support. [/b]

    [b]We have evidence, collected by the United Nations's inspectors during those inspections that Saddam Hussein has permitted them to make, that despite his pledges at the conclusion of the war that no further work would be done in these weapons of mass destruction programs, and that all prior work and weapons that resulted from it would be destroyed, this work has continued illegally and covertly. [/b]

    [b]And, Mr. President, we have every reason to believe that Saddam Hussein will continue to do everything in his power to further develop weapons of mass destruction and the ability to deliver those weapons, and that he will use those weapons without concern or pangs of conscience if ever and whenever his own calculations persuade him it is in his interests to do so. [/b]

    Saddam Hussein has not limited his unspeakable actions to use of weapons of mass destruction. He and his loyalists have proven themselves quite comfortable with old fashioned instruments and techniques of torture--both physical and psychological. During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, Kuwaiti women were systematically raped and otherwise assaulted. The accounts of the torture chambers in his permanent and makeshift prisons and detention facilities are gruesome by any measure.

    Mr. President, Saddam Hussein's actions in terrorizing his own people and in using horrible weapons and means of torture against those who oppose him, be they his own countrymen and women or citizens of other nations, collectively comprise the definition of crimes against humanity.

    [b]I have spoken before this chamber on several occasions to state my belief that the United States must take every feasible step to lead the world to remove this unacceptable threat. He must be deprived of the ability to injure his own citizens without regard to internationally-recognized standards of behavior and law. He must be deprived of his ability to invade neighboring nations. He must be deprived of his ability to visit destruction on other nations in the Middle East region or beyond. If he does not live up fully to the new commitments that U.N. Secretary-General Annan recently obtained in order to end the weapons inspection standoff--and I will say clearly that I cannot conceive that he will not violate those commitments at some point--we must act decisively to end the threats that Saddam Hussein poses. [/b]

    But the vote this morning was about a different albeit related matter today. It was about initiating a process of bringing the world's opprobrium to bear on this reprehensible criminal--to officially designate Saddam Hussein as that which we know him to be.

    We are realists, Mr. President. Even if this process leads as we believe it will to the conviction of Saddam Hussein under international law, our ability to carry out any resulting sentence may be constrained as long as he remains in power in Baghdad. But Saddam Hussein will not remain in power in Baghdad forever. Eventually, if we persist out of dedication to the cause that we must never permit anyone one who treats other human beings the way he has treated tens of thousands of human beings to escape justice, we will bring Saddam Hussein to justice. And in the meantime, his conviction on these charges may prove of benefit to our efforts to isolate him and his government, and to rally the support of other nations around the world to the effort to remove him from power.

    I am pleased, Mr. President, that this resolution was agreed to unanimously, and hopeful that soon the machinery of international law will be applied as it was designed to label Saddam Hussein as the horrific murderer and torturer he is, recognition he richly deserves.

    Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, I express my strong support of Senate Concurrent Resolution 78, which would call on the President of the United States to work toward the establishment of the legal mechanisms, under the aegis of the United Nations, necessary for the prosecution of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein for crimes against humanity, including the infliction upon the people of Kuwait and his own Kurdish population of genocidal policies. The resolution further encourages that the President seek the funding required to support this effort.

    Senator Specter is to be commended for taking the lead in this morally and legally essential exercise in holding Saddam Hussein accountable for a long history of brutality that places him squarely among the worst human rights offenders of the post-World War II era. While none of us are under any illusions about the nature of this individual, I nevertheless urge my colleagues to read the text of this resolution carefully. It is a concise, comprehensive list of human rights abuses and war crimes committed by the Iraqi leader against the neighboring country of Kuwait, which he invaded and upon which imposed a brutal occupation, and against the Kurdish occupation of northern Iraq. It reiterates the degree to which Saddam Hussein has willfully and repeatedly failed to comply with United Nations and other legal mandates pertaining to his treatment of those who have suffered the misfortune of falling under his grip and to the international inspection regimes to which he is subject.

    The text of the resolution is self-explanatory, but even that omits mention of the incalculable acts of wanton cruelty Saddam Hussein, and his sons, has committed against the Iraqi people, in addition to actions against the country's Kurdish population. Such a discussion is beyond the purview of a resolution oriented towards holding Saddam accountable for war crimes. I mention this only to ensure that the fate of the Iraqi people is not forgotten. The purpose of S. Con. Res. 78 is to establish the legal framework for further isolating Saddam Hussein diplomatically and for working toward his removal from power. This is a resolution that may seem obvious and elementary in some respects, yet which reflects my colleague from Pennsylvania's astute grasp of the legal imperatives involved in pursuing far-ranging policies designed to bring down a ruthless and belligerent dictator.


    IRAQ (Senate - October 10, 1998)


    Mr. KERRY: Two months ago, on August 5, Saddam Hussein, formally adopting a recommendation that had been made by the Iraqi parliament 2 days earlier, announced that Iraq would no longer permit U.N. weapons inspectors to conduct random searches in defiance of its obligations under those U.N. resolutions that were adopted at the end of the war, and also in violation, I might add, of its agreement last February with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, to give UNSCOM teams, accompanied by diplomatic overseers, unconditional access to all sites where UNSCOM believed that Iraq may be stockpiling weapons or agents to make those weapons.

    Let's understand very clearly that ever since the end of the war, it has been the clear, declared, accepted, and implemented policy of the United States of America and its allies to prevent Saddam Hussein from building weapons of mass destruction. And as part of that agreed-upon policy, we were to be permitted unlimited, unfettered, unconditional, immediate access to the sites that we needed to inspect in order to be able to make that policy real.

    Iraq's defiance and the low-key--some would say weak--response of the United States and the United Nations initially went unnoticed, in part because of other events, including the dual bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the obvious fascination with domestic events that have dominated the headlines now for so many months. Those events, frankly, have continued to obscure the reality of what is happening in Iraq; and, accordingly, the reality of the potential threat to the region--a region where, obviously, the United States, for 50 years or more, has invested enormous amounts of our diplomatic and even our domestic energy.

    Press reports of the administration's efforts to intervene in, or at minimum, to influence UNSCOM's inspection process and the resignation of American UNSCOM inspector, Scott Ritter, focused the spotlight briefly on our Iraqi policy and raised some serious and troubling questions about our efforts to eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. The principal question raised was a very simple one: Are those efforts still intact, or has our policy changed?

    Last month, press reports suggested that administration officials had secretly tried to quash aggressive U.N. inspections at various times over the last year, most recently in August, in order to avoid a confrontation with Iraq--this despite repeatedly demanding the unconditional, unfettered accesses that I referred to earlier for the inspection teams. Scott Ritter, the longest serving American inspector in UNSCOM, charged at the time that the administration had intervened at least six or seven times since last November when Iraq tried to thwart UNSCOM's work by refusing to allow Ritter and other Americans to participate on the teams, in an effort to delay or postpone or cancel certain UNSCOM operations out of fear of confrontation with Iraq.

    Those were serious charges. We held an open hearing, a joint hearing between the Armed Services Committee and Foreign Relations Committee on these charges. There were some protestations to the contrary by the administration and a subsequent effort to ensure that the Security Council would maintain the sanctions against Iraq, but, frankly, nothing more.

    In explaining his reasons for resigning, Scott Ritter stated that the policy shift in the Security Council supported `at least implicitly' by the United States, away from an aggressive inspections policy is a surrender to Iraqi leadership that makes a `farce' of the commission's efforts to prove that Iraq is still concealing its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs.

    Administration officials have categorically rejected the notion that U.S. policy has shifted, either in terms of our willingness to use force or support for UNSCOM. They have also disputed Ritter's charges of repeated U.S. efforts to limit UNSCOM's work. Writing in the New York Times on August 17, Secretary Albright stated that the administration has `ruled nothing out, including the use of force' in determining how to respond to Iraqi actions, and that supporting UNSCOM is `at the heart of U.S. efforts to prevent Saddam Hussein from threatening his neighborhood.' While acknowledging that she did consult with UNSCOM's Chairman, Richard Butler, after Iraq suspended inspections last month, she argued that he `came to his own conclusion that it was wiser to keep the focus on Iraq's open defiance of the Security Council.' Attempting to proceed with the inspections, in her view, would have `allowed some in the Security Council to muddy the waters by claiming again that UNSCOM had provoked Iraq,' whereas, not proceeding would give us a `free hand to use other means' if Iraq does not `resume cooperation' with the Security Council. At that time, she also stressed the importance of maintaining the comprehensive sanctions in place to deny Saddam Hussein the ability to rearm Iraq and thus threaten his neighbors.

    I appreciate the Secretary's efforts to set the record straight. But, Mr. President, I have to say, in all candor, that I don't think that her op-ed or subsequent statements by the administration have put to rest legitimate questions--legitimate questions or concerns about what our policy is and where it is headed--not just our policy alone, I might add, but the policy of the United Nations itself, and the policy of our allies in Europe.

    The fact of the matter is, in my judgment, the U.S. response and that of the Security Council to Saddam Hussein's latest provocations are different in tone and substance from responses to earlier Iraqi provocations.

    Three times in the last 11 months Saddam Hussein has launched increasingly bolder challenges to UNSCOM's authority and work. In November, he refused to allow American inspectors to participate on the teams. Although that crisis ultimately was resolved through Russian intervention, the United States and Britain were leading the effort to push the Security Council to respond strongly. In subsequent weeks, Saddam Hussein refused to grant UNSCOM access to Presidential palaces and other sensitive cites, kicked out the team that was led by Scott Ritter, charging at the time that he was a CIA spy, and threatened to expel all inspectors unless sanctions were removed by mid-May.

    By February, the United States had an armada of forces positioned in the gulf, and administration officials from our President on down had declared our intention to use military force if necessary to reduce Iraq's capacity to manufacture, stockpile or reconstitute its weapons of mass destruction, or to threaten its neighbors.

    Ultimately diplomacy succeeded again. In a sense, it succeeded again. It averted the immediate crisis. One can certainly raise serious questions about how effective it was with respect to the longer-term choices we face. But certainly in the short term, Secretary General Kofi Annan successfully struck an agreement with Iraq to provide UNSCOM inspectors, accompanied by diplomatic representatives, full and unfettered access to all sites. There is little doubt that this agreement would not have been concluded successfully without the Security Council's strong calls for Iraqi compliance combined with the specter of the potential use of American force.

    Saddam's latest provocation, however, Mr. President, strikes at the heart of our policy, and at the capacity of UNSCOM to do its job effectively. As long as the U.N. inspectors are prevented, as they are, from undertaking random no-notice inspections, they will never be able to confirm the fundamentals of our policy. They will never be able to confirm what weapons Iraq still has or what it is doing to maintain its capability to produce weapons of mass destruction.

    Yet, when confronted with what may be the most serious challenge to UNSCOM to date, the administration's response, and that of our allies and the United Nations, has been to assiduously avoid brandishing the sword and to make a concerted effort to downplay the offense to avoid confrontation at all costs, even if it means implicit and even explicit backing down on our stated position as well as that of the Security Council. That stated position is clear: That Iraq must provide the U.N. inspectors with unconditional and unfettered access to all sites.

    Secretary Albright may well be correct in arguing that this course helps keep the focus on Iraq's defiance. It may well do that. But it is also true that the U.N.-imposed limits on UNSCOM operations, especially if they are at the behest of the United States, work completely to Saddam Hussein's advantage.

    They raise questions of the most serious nature about the preparedness of the international community to keep its own commitment to force Iraq to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, and the much larger question of our overall proliferation commitment itself. They undermine the credibility of the United States and the United Nations position that Iraq comply with the Security Council's demands to provide unconditional and unfettered access to those inspectors. And, obviously, every single one of our colleagues ought to be deeply concerned about the fact that by keeping the inspectors out of the very places that Saddam Hussein wants to prevent them from entering, they substantially weaken UNSCOM's ability to make any accurate determination of Iraq's nuclear, chemical or biological weapons inventory or capability. And in so doing, they open the door for Iraq's allies on the Security Council to waffle on the question of sanctions.

    I recognize that the Security Council recently voted to keep the sanctions in place and to suspend the sanctions review process. But, Mr. President, notwithstanding that, the less than maximum level of international concern and focus on the underlying fact that no inspections take place, the continuation of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, and the fact that Saddam Hussein is in complete contravention of his own agreements and of the U.N. requirements--that continues to be the real crisis. And Saddam Hussein continues to refuse to comply.

    Since the end of the gulf war, the international community has sought to isolate and weaken Iraq through a dual policy of sanctions and weapons inspections. Or, as one administration official said, to put him in a `box.' In order to get the sanctions relief, Iraq has to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction and submit to inspections. But it has become painfully apparent over the last 11 months that there are deep divisions within the Security Council particularly among the Permanent 5 members over how to deal with Saddam Hussein's aggressive efforts to break out of the box.

    Russia, France and China have consistently been more sympathetic to Iraq's call for sanctions relief than the United States and Britain. We, on the other hand, have steadfastly insisted that sanctions remain in place until he complies. These differences over how to deal with Iraq reflect the fact that there is a superficial consensus, at best, among the Perm 5 on the degree to which Iraq poses a threat and the priority to be placed on dismantling Iraq's weapons capability. For the United States and Britain, an Iraq equipped with nuclear, chemical or biological weapons under the leadership of Saddam Hussein is a threat that almost goes without description, although our current activities seem to call into question whether or not one needs to be reminded of some of that description. Both of these countries have demonstrated a willingness to expend men, material and money to curb that threat.

    France, on the other hand, has long established economic and political relationships within the Arab world, and has had a different approach. Russia also has a working relationship with Iraq, and China, whose commitment to nuclear nonproliferation has been less than stellar, has a very different calculus that comes into play. Iraq may be a threat and nonproliferation may be the obvious, most desirable goal, but whether any of these countries are legitimately prepared to sacrifice other interests to bring Iraq to heel remains questionable today, and is precisely part of the calculus that Saddam Hussein has used as he tweaks the Security Council and the international community simultaneously.

    Given the difference of views within the Security Council, and no doubt the fears of our Arab allies, who are the potential targets of Iraqi aggression, it is really not surprising, or shouldn't be to any of us, that the administration has privately tried to influence the inspection process in a way that might avoid confrontation while other efforts were being made to forge a consensus. But now we have to make a judgment about the failure to reinstate the inspection process and ask ourselves whether or not that will destroy the original `box' that the administration has defined as so essential to carrying out our policy.

    Is it possible that there is a sufficient lack of consensus and a lack of will that will permit Saddam Hussein to exploit the differences among the members of the Security Council and to create a sufficient level of sanctions fatigue that we would in fact move further away from the policy we originally had?

    To the extent that his efforts are successful, we will find ourselves increasingly isolated within the Security Council. In fact, it is already clear that some of our allies in the Security Council are very open to the Iraqi idea of a comprehensive review of its performance in dismantling all of its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons--a review which Iraq hopes will lead to a lifting of some if not all of the sanctions.

    I think the question needs to be asked as to how long we can sustain our insistence on the maintenance of sanctions if support for sanctions continues to erode within the Security Council. If it is indeed true that support is eroding--and there are great indicators that, given the current lack of confrontation, it is true--then the question remains, How will our original policy be affected or in fact is our original policy still in place?

    In April, Secretary Albright stated that, `It took a threat of force to persuade Saddam Hussein to let the U.N. inspectors back in. We must maintain that threat if the inspectors are to do their jobs.'

    That was the policy in April. Whether the administration is still prepared to use force to compel Iraqi compliance is now an enormous question. The Secretary says it is, but the recent revelations raise questions about that.

    In addition, it seems to me that there are clear questions about whether or not the international community at this point in time is as committed as it was previously to the question of keeping Iraq from developing that capacity to rob its neighbors of tranquility through its unilateral development of a secret weapon program.

    In May, India and Pakistan, despite all of our exhortations, conducted nuclear tests. In August, U.S. intelligence reports indicated that North Korea is building a secret underground nuclear facility, and last month North Korea tested a new 1,250-mile-range ballistic missile which landed in the Sea of Japan. Each and every one of these events raises the ante on international proliferation efforts and should cause the Senate and the Congress as a whole and the administration, in my judgment, to place far greater emphasis and energy on this subject.

    If the United States and the United Nations retreat in any way on Iraq, if we are prepared to accept something less than their full compliance with the international inspection requirement that has been in place now for 7 years, it will be difficult to understand how we will have advanced the cause of proliferation in any of those other areas that I just mentioned.

    Mr. President, over the years, a consensus has developed within the international community that the production and use of weapons of mass destruction has to be halted. We and others worked hard to develop arms control regimes toward that end, but obviously Saddam Hussein's goal is to do otherwise. Iraq and North Korea and others have made it clear that they are still trying, secretly and otherwise, to develop those weapons.

    The international consensus on the need to curb the production and use of weapons of mass destruction is widespread, but it is far from unanimous, and, as the divisions within the Security Council over Iraq indicate, some of our key allies simply don't place the same priority on proliferation as we do.

    The proliferation of weapons, be they conventional or of mass destruction, remains one of the most significant issues on the international agenda. Obviously, solutions won't come easily. But I am convinced that in the case of Iraq, our failure would set the international community's nonproliferations efforts back enormously.

    Our allies need to understand that the ramifications of letting Saddam Hussein out of the box that we put him in with respect to inspections would be serious and far-reaching. So I believe we need to keep the pressure on them to stand firm, to stand firm with us, and unless we reassert our leadership and insist that Iraq allow those inspectors to do their job, we will have destroyed a number of years of our effort in ways, Mr. President, that we will regret in our policy for the long haul.

    I would point out also that there are experts on Iraq, those in the inspections team, those at the U.N. and elsewhere in our international community, who are very clear that Saddam Hussein's first objective is not to lift the sanctions. His first objective is to keep Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program--that will come ahead of all else.

    The situation is really far more serious than the United Nations, the Congress or the administration have made clear to the American people or demonstrated through the level of diplomacy and focus that is currently being placed on this issue. It is not simply about eliminating Saddam Hussein's capacity to threaten his neighbors. It is about eliminating Iraq's weapons of mass destruction--chemical, biological, and nuclear. Failure to achieve this goal will have a profound impact, I believe, on our efforts with respect to our other nonproliferation efforts including completion of our talks with Russia and the ultimate ratification of the START II treaty by the Duma.

    In recent conversations that I had with Chairman Butler, he confirmed that Saddam Hussein has only this one goal--keeping his weapons of mass destruction capability--and he further stated with clarity that Iraq is well out of compliance with U.N. resolutions requiring it to eliminate those weapons and submit to inspections and out of compliance with the agreement that he signed up to in February with Kofi Annan.

    Mr. President, I believe there are a number of things we could do, a number of things both in covert as well as overt fashion. There is more policy energy that ought to be placed on this effort, and I believe that, as I have set forth in my comments, it is critical for us to engage in that effort, to hold him accountable.

    In February, when we had an armada positioned in the gulf, President Clinton said that `one way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.'

    The fact is, Mr. President, over these last months there has been precious little to prevent Saddam Hussein from developing that capacity without the inspectors there and without the unwavering determination of the United Nations to hold him accountable. So the question still stands, What is our policy and what are we prepared to do about it?

    Mr. President, I had asked to speak also on another topic for a moment. I see my colleague from New Mexico is here. Let me ask him what his intentions might be now and maybe we can work out an agreement.


    [url=http://home.nyc.rr.com/sandr/kerry.htm]http://home.nyc.rr.com/sandr/kerry.htm[/url]

  2. #2
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    State Location Here
    Posts
    8,148
    Listen, the GOP is going to have a field day with Kerry should he win the nomination. A freakin' attack BONANZA.

    What concerns me is that the sharper dems have to know that Kerry won't stand up to scrutiny. He has more baggage than Terminal 4 at JFK.

    I absolutely do not rule out a scenario where Kerry beats out the rest of the existing field, subsequently gets absolutely ABUSED on the campaign trail by his past misdeeds, remarks, and voting record, and then...oh my god...Cruella DeHil rides in to save the day.

    As much as it makes me absolutely vomit to have to say it, Hillary may just be able to give the dems a shot at the White House in '04.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    [quote][i]Originally posted by shakin318[/i]@Feb 9 2004, 11:08 PM
    [b] Listen, the GOP is going to have a field day with Kerry should he win the nomination. A freakin' attack BONANZA.

    What concerns me is that the sharper dems have to know that Kerry won't stand up to scrutiny. He has more baggage than Terminal 4 at JFK.

    I absolutely do not rule out a scenario where Kerry beats out the rest of the existing field, subsequently gets absolutely ABUSED on the campaign trail by his past misdeeds, remarks, and voting record, and then...oh my god...Cruella DeHil rides in to save the day.

    As much as it makes me absolutely vomit to have to say it, Hillary may just be able to give the dems a shot at the White House in '04. [/b][/quote]
    Interesting theory you've got there sporty spice. :blink:

    What color is the sky in your world?

  4. #4
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Middletown Md
    Posts
    673
    [quote][i]Originally posted by shakin318[/i]@Feb 9 2004, 11:08 PM
    [b] Listen, the GOP is going to have a field day with Kerry should he win the nomination. A freakin' attack BONANZA.

    What concerns me is that the sharper dems have to know that Kerry won't stand up to scrutiny. He has more baggage than Terminal 4 at JFK.

    I absolutely do not rule out a scenario where Kerry beats out the rest of the existing field, subsequently gets absolutely ABUSED on the campaign trail by his past misdeeds, remarks, and voting record, and then...oh my god...Cruella DeHil rides in to save the day.

    As much as it makes me absolutely vomit to have to say it, Hillary may just be able to give the dems a shot at the White House in '04. [/b][/quote]
    I agree with your opinion that the G.O.P will slaughter Kerry because he's got way too much of a radical track record to win the general election.

    As for the Cruella...umm...Hillary { I get them confused too } scenario.....I don't see it because by the time the conventions roll around the economy should be continuing its upturn, we will have started the process of withdrawing troops from Iraq, and the G.O.P will be spending some of the massave amounts of money they are presently sitting on to insure President Bush's re-election.

    In that climate it would be hard for any democratic candidate to win the general election { and nearly impossible for one with so many holes like Kerry } so Hillary will continue to play the odds and wait til '08 to make her run when she'll have a better chance of winning.

    I personally believe most democrats in their heart of hearts know that '04 is pretty much a foregone conclusion and that Kerry is somewhat of a sacrificial lamb being trotted out to take the hit and get slaughtered while the better candidates bide their time til '08 when their propspcts should be better.

    That theory works for Kerry because it's the only way he can get the nomination and take a run for the presidency, while his chances of winning are slim at best if Bush made huge mistakes and miscalculations { some would argue he already has } along the way then he'd be standing there to capitalize and pull off the upset...and...if not...then he took the only shot he was gonna get anyway and can go back to continue trying to screw up peoples lives from his cushy senate seat.

    And it also explains why Hillary { and to a lesser extent Gore} chose to sit this one out and bide their time, I believe if Hillary thought she had a good chance to win in '04 she'd have went for it and in her heart of hearts { assuming she indeed has one } she wanted to run but she correctly ascertained Bush would be too tough so she made the right choice to wait and watch someone else get routed.

    IMHO no matter how bad it looks for Kerry during the convention Hillary and the rest of the dem's will be content to allow him to take the beating they all assumed he was gonna get anyway and they'll just patiently wait for a better time to make their run at the presidency.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    [quote][i]Originally posted by MARYLAND JET[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 10:40 AM
    [b] I agree with your opinion that the G.O.P will slaughter Kerry because he's got way too much of a radical track record to win the general election.

    [/b][/quote]
    If it makes you feel better marylandjet, just keep telling yourself that.

  6. #6
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Middletown Md
    Posts
    673
    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Feb 10 2004, 10:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Feb 10 2004, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MARYLAND JET[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 10:40 AM
    [b] I agree with your opinion that the G.O.P will slaughter Kerry because he&#39;s got way too much of a radical track record to win the general election.

    [/b][/quote]
    If it makes you feel better marylandjet, just keep telling yourself that. [/b][/quote]
    I don&#39;t need it to make me feel better because I feel pretty good regardless.

    I&#39;m not telling myself anything.....just looking at the situation logically and unemotionally and coming to the only rational conclusion.

  7. #7
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    State Location Here
    Posts
    8,148
    Maryland

    I don&#39;t think the dems will so easily concede &#39;04. The prospect of a George W. Bush in power and not having to worry about another election is absolutely a shorts-filling scenario for the MacAulliffes, Daschles and Pelosis of the world. It goes way beyond &#39;04: he&#39;ll pick up Senate seats, continue appointing right-minded judges and basically have 4 years to focus on his agenda without being concerned about how the dems spin it in the &#39;08 campaign trail.

    I would never count out the prospect of Hillary coming out of the woodwork in some capacity. Veep to spice up the ticket? Throwing her hat into the ring for all the marbles?

    I wouldn&#39;t even put it past her to put her name into the mix while having no real intention to actually run in &#39;04 -- to "test the waters." She&#39;d be able to weather all the GOP attacks now, see what they&#39;ve got in their arsenal, back away, and by the time &#39;08 rolls around, all that "baggage" will be old news and dealt with already...

    Never put anything past the Clintons.

  8. #8
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by MARYLAND JET+Feb 10 2004, 10:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (MARYLAND JET @ Feb 10 2004, 10:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -tailgators@Feb 10 2004, 10:48 AM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--MARYLAND JET[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 10:40 AM
    [b] I agree with your opinion that the G.O.P will slaughter Kerry because he&#39;s got way too much of a radical track record to win the general election.

    [/b][/quote]
    If it makes you feel better marylandjet, just keep telling yourself that. [/b][/quote]
    I don&#39;t need it to make me feel better because I feel pretty good regardless.

    I&#39;m not telling myself anything.....just looking at the situation logically and unemotionally and coming to the only rational conclusion. [/b][/quote]
    The funny thing Maryalnd is libs are stupid and don&#39;t learn from each others mistakes&#33;

    Instead of running on their own merit they attack the President with all kinds of rederic and hate....then all of a sudden their own past and previous stances on issues are looked at and you find....well loookkeee what we&#39;ve got here&#33;

    It happened with Dean, then Clarke and now kerry....Edwards is the only guy who doesn&#39;t speak with a forked tongue.

  9. #9
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Edwards and his trial lawyers have cost the healthcare field so much money in exhorbitant malpractice suits and settlements and now he turns around and laments the high cost of healthcare, as if HE AND THE LOBBY HE IS BEHOLDEN TO AND GETS THE MOST MONEY FROM didn&#39;t help make the problem worse? ...and liberals have the temerity to call conservatives stupid, hilarious.

    Look at Kerry - the guy is dripping special interest money out of his cheeks, yet rails against them.


    In any event, you guys have reminded me why I cannot and will not vote against Bush, no matter how Angry I am with him:

    Supreme Court nominations.


    I cannot stomach the thought of more liberal activists up there. We need more sensible people like Clarence Thomas on the bench, IMO.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    [quote][i]Originally posted by MARYLAND JET+Feb 10 2004, 10:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (MARYLAND JET @ Feb 10 2004, 10:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -tailgators@Feb 10 2004, 10:48 AM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--MARYLAND JET[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 10:40 AM
    [b] I agree with your opinion that the G.O.P will slaughter Kerry because he&#39;s got way too much of a radical track record to win the general election.

    [/b][/quote]
    If it makes you feel better marylandjet, just keep telling yourself that. [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m not telling myself anything.....just looking at the situation logically and unemotionally and coming to the only rational conclusion. [/b][/quote]
    Your "rational conclusion" is a matter of opinion.

    My opinion is that with the nation mired in the quagmire of Iraq and with the U.S. economy in ruins and his administration saddled with scandels that Bush will lose to John Kerry.

    You guys tried to write off Senator Kerry before and look how well that worked out.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 11:06 AM
    [b] We need more sensible people like Clarence Thomas on the bench, IMO. [/b][/quote]
    Yeah 5-ever, we sure need more Supreme Court Judges like Clarence "Is that a pubic hair in my Coke" Thomas&#33;

  12. #12
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Feb 10 2004, 10:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Feb 10 2004, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jets5ever[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 11:06 AM
    [b] We need more sensible people like Clarence Thomas on the bench, IMO. [/b][/quote]
    Yeah 5-ever, we sure need more Supreme Court Judges like Clarence "Is that a pubic hair in my Coke" Thomas&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Laugh all you want Tail, but he&#39;s a brilliant man and a very, very consistent, constitutionalist judge with sober judgment and a logical mind.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Feb 10 2004, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever @ Feb 10 2004, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -tailgators@Feb 10 2004, 10:17 AM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--jets5ever[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 11:06 AM
    [b] We need more sensible people like Clarence Thomas on the bench, IMO. [/b][/quote]
    Yeah 5-ever, we sure need more Supreme Court Judges like Clarence "Is that a pubic hair in my Coke" Thomas&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Laugh all you want Tail, but he&#39;s a brilliant man and a very, very consistent, constitutionalist judge with sober judgment and a logical mind. [/b][/quote]
    He&#39;s a pervert who got away with sexual harrassment.

  14. #14
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 11:31 AM
    [b] He&#39;s a pervert who got away with sexual harrassment. [/b][/quote]
    I thought you supported bill clinton?

  15. #15
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Middletown Md
    Posts
    673
    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Feb 10 2004, 11:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Feb 10 2004, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -MARYLAND JET@Feb 10 2004, 10:56 AM
    [b] [quote]Originally posted by -tailgators@Feb 10 2004, 10:48 AM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--MARYLAND JET[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 10:40 AM
    [b] I agree with your opinion that the G.O.P will slaughter Kerry because he&#39;s got way too much of a radical track record to win the general election.

    [/b][/quote]
    If it makes you feel better marylandjet, just keep telling yourself that. [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m not telling myself anything.....just looking at the situation logically and unemotionally and coming to the only rational conclusion. [/b][/quote]
    Your "rational conclusion" is a matter of opinion.

    My opinion is that with the nation mired in the quagmire of Iraq and with the U.S. economy in ruins and his administration saddled with scandels that Bush will lose to John Kerry.

    You guys tried to write off Senator Kerry before and look how well that worked our. [/b][/quote]
    You are absolutely correct.....My " rational conclusion " is in fact just my opinion and nobody really knows what&#39;s gonna happen.

    All anybody can do at this point is speculate and if you are correct that the U.S economy is in " ruins " and Iraq is indeed " mired in a quagmire " then Bush faces a stiffer challenge.

    However.....if you take all emotion out of the situation it looks pretty darn good for the G.O.P.....most economists are predicting the economy will continue to grow in &#39;04 and if they&#39;re correct then it&#39;s gonna be tough for Kerry { or anyone else for that matter } to gain alot of momentum while railing against the presidents tax cuts, if the economy goes completely in the tank then that arguement would succeed on some level but very few if any economists are predicting that scenario.

    As for Iraq.....the present plan is to have the Iraquis begin to take control of their country beginning June 30th.....but.....for arguements sake lets assume the worst possible scenario for the G.O.P and say that we decide it&#39;s too soon to go that route and by the time the election rolls around we&#39;re in the same exact situation that we are in today.....obviously Kerry would be attacking the administration day in and day out trying to gain traction with that issue and maybe some people would be swayed but ultimately I think his attacks wouldn&#39;t be enough to swing the election because a majority of americans supported the war and while he may win some votes in demagogueing he&#39;ll also energize the majority that thinks we did the correct thing in the first place.

    As for the administration " saddled with scandals " scenario you&#39;re hoping for all I can say is that I honestly believe this administration is for the most part ethical and while the democrats will certainly try to muddy up the waters and do whatever they can to get the public to believe Bush is crooked when the facts are presented to the american people the attacks won&#39;t pass the smell test.....yes.....there will be some that will believe anything the D.N.C tosses out whether or not they can back it up but those are the true believers who wouldn&#39;t vote for Bush regardless, middle america will require more proof than innuendo and conspiracy theories and the dem&#39;s should ultimately fall short in their slander attempts.

    So.....If Kerry can&#39;t say the tax cuts are irresponsible, and Iraq isn&#39;t the big ticket issue he&#39;s desperately hoping for, and the administration isn&#39;t crooked.....then.....what&#39;s HE got going for him anyway ?.....IMHO not a whole helluva lot.....Bush has tons of cash just waiting to blanket the airwaves with facts about Sen Kerry that will make middle america cringe.

    Day in and day out he&#39;s gonna have to defend himself against the G.O.P attacks and I don&#39;t think he&#39;ll stand up.

    Sen Kerry.....voted to cut intel funding that directly led to the bad intel that president Bush recieved before going into Iraq.....

    Sen Kerry.....voted slightly left of Sen Kennedy { ouch }.....

    Sen Kerry.....why are the vietnam vet&#39;s siding AGAINST you when YOU were the veteran ?.....

    Sen Kerry.....You railed against the special interest...but...accepted tons of special interest money.....

    Sen Kerry.....did you really commit war crimes while serving in vietnam ?.....

    etc...etc...etc..........

    Add it all up and again.....the only logical conclusion at this point is that Bush should waltz to victory.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Kingston, NY
    Posts
    3,975
    Maryland...Check the news today.

    In a surprise move beginning April 1st OPEC has decided to reduce their production of oil by 10%. With gasoline prices already around a &#036;1.80 to &#036;2.00 per gallon this is not good news. Don&#39;t be shocked if gasoline prices are near &#036;2.80 per gallon by July or August.

    When this happens it&#39;ll be another staggering blow to Bush&#39;s re-election chances. Especially since he has no plan to make America energy independent.

    Let&#39;s check out an outline of John Kerry&#39;s plan, shall we?

    From johnkerry.com:

    [b]A Cleaner and Greener America[/b]
    Throughout his career, John Kerry has been a top leader on the environment, fighting to clean up toxic waste sites, to keep our air and water clean, and to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other pristine wilderness areas. In addition to supporting important environmental initiatives, John Kerry has turned a spotlight on the Bush Administration’s rollbacks of our hard-won environmental gains and their outdated, old-economy notions that our environment must be sacrificed in the name of short-term profit. John Kerry has the courage to take on the polluters that are trying to gut our clean air and water laws. John Kerry has the vision to create a new Manhattan Project to make America independent of Middle East oil in 10 years by creating alternative fuels like ethanol and making cars more efficient. We’ll create half a million new jobs here at home at the same time – and we’ll never have to send our sons and daughters to war for Mideast oil.

    America is only as healthy as the communities in which we live, and our economic strength as a nation – and Americans’ deeply rooted love and respect for our magnificent resources – depends on our commitment to clean air, clean water, and our quality of life. Unlike the Bush-Cheney Administration, where special interests rule and the environment suffers, a Kerry Administration will build its policies around citizens’ needs and aspirations. We owe it to our families, our communities, and to our planet to elect a president who will unapologetically pursue our environmental values.

  17. #17
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Middletown Md
    Posts
    673
    [quote][i]Originally posted by shakin318[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 11:02 AM
    [b] Maryland

    I don&#39;t think the dems will so easily concede &#39;04. The prospect of a George W. Bush in power and not having to worry about another election is absolutely a shorts-filling scenario for the MacAulliffes, Daschles and Pelosis of the world. It goes way beyond &#39;04: he&#39;ll pick up Senate seats, continue appointing right-minded judges and basically have 4 years to focus on his agenda without being concerned about how the dems spin it in the &#39;08 campaign trail.

    I would never count out the prospect of Hillary coming out of the woodwork in some capacity. Veep to spice up the ticket? Throwing her hat into the ring for all the marbles?

    I wouldn&#39;t even put it past her to put her name into the mix while having no real intention to actually run in &#39;04 -- to "test the waters." She&#39;d be able to weather all the GOP attacks now, see what they&#39;ve got in their arsenal, back away, and by the time &#39;08 rolls around, all that "baggage" will be old news and dealt with already...

    Never put anything past the Clintons. [/b][/quote]
    Shakin.....

    I just believe the dem&#39;s see the handwriting on the wall and their pollsters are telling them they basically have no choice but to concede &#39;04.

    Daschle and Pelosi will soon realize { if they already don&#39;t } that they&#39;re gonna have to settle for being obstructionists for the foreseeable future and continue to slander Bush&#39;s judicial nominees and hope that nobody cares about the continued misuse of judicial filibusters.

    As for Hillary.....I could certainly see a scenario where she&#39;d be the Veep nominee, by the time the convention rolls around Kerry&#39;s internal polls should be telling him he&#39;s losing badly so he&#39;d probably be desperate enough to try to shake things up a little and take Hillary and her baggage on.

    And she&#39;s got nothing to lose so I&#39;d venture to say that she&#39;d accept.....after all.....when the ticket tanks on election day she can place the blame squarely on Kerry&#39;s blue blood shoulders and she comes out as the leading contender for the dem&#39;s in &#39;08.

    Ultimately.....she&#39;ll do whatever&#39;s best for HER, not the party or the country or anything else for that matter.....JUST HER.....and if being the veep nominee and losing serves HER perceived best interests then that&#39;s what she&#39;ll do.

  18. #18
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Middletown Md
    Posts
    673
    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 12:56 PM
    [b] Maryland...Check the news today.

    In a surprise move beginning April 1st OPEC has decided to reduce their production of oil by 10%. With gasoline prices already around a &#036;1.80 to &#036;2.00 per gallon this is not good news. Don&#39;t be shocked if gasoline prices are near &#036;2.80 per gallon by July or August.

    When this happens it&#39;ll be another staggering blow to Bush&#39;s re-election chances. Especially since he has no plan to make America energy independent.

    Let&#39;s check out an outline of John Kerry&#39;s plan, shall we?

    From johnkerry.com:

    [b]A Cleaner and Greener America[/b]
    Throughout his career, John Kerry has been a top leader on the environment, fighting to clean up toxic waste sites, to keep our air and water clean, and to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other pristine wilderness areas. In addition to supporting important environmental initiatives, John Kerry has turned a spotlight on the Bush Administration’s rollbacks of our hard-won environmental gains and their outdated, old-economy notions that our environment must be sacrificed in the name of short-term profit. John Kerry has the courage to take on the polluters that are trying to gut our clean air and water laws. John Kerry has the vision to create a new Manhattan Project to make America independent of Middle East oil in 10 years by creating alternative fuels like ethanol and making cars more efficient. We’ll create half a million new jobs here at home at the same time – and we’ll never have to send our sons and daughters to war for Mideast oil.

    America is only as healthy as the communities in which we live, and our economic strength as a nation – and Americans’ deeply rooted love and respect for our magnificent resources – depends on our commitment to clean air, clean water, and our quality of life. Unlike the Bush-Cheney Administration, where special interests rule and the environment suffers, a Kerry Administration will build its policies around citizens’ needs and aspirations. We owe it to our families, our communities, and to our planet to elect a president who will unapologetically pursue our environmental values. [/b][/quote]
    TG.....

    I&#39;m shocked.....gas prices could be &#036;2.80 per gallon { and worse for me cause I&#39;ve gotta use 93 octane }.....But.....I thought Bush had the oil companies in his back pocket.....how could they allow this to happen to our beloved oil loving president after all he&#39;s done for them ?.....I&#39;m mortified &#33;.

    Seriously.....Even if the worst case scenario were to happen and gas prices shot up to unexpected highs Bush could point out that part of the reason we&#39;re so dependant on foreign oil and at their mercy is because the environmentalists will not allow us to drill for our own.

    This won&#39;t play well with the Sierra club but people of that ilk aren&#39;t gonna vote for him anyway so it won&#39;t matter.

    As for alternative fuels.....I&#39;m all for them.....I don&#39;t at all like the fact that our economy is partly affected by OPEC&#39;s whim and support finding new and better ways to go and if it cleans up the environment then all the better.

    And while the government certainly has a big role in funding and trying to develop the technoligy that will decrease our dependance I think the private sector may actually beat them to the punch.

    I recall on some T.V show recently where some actress was hawking some { don&#39;t laugh } vegetable oil based mixture that she uses in her car NOW that replaces gasoline and can be used without modifying present day engines, she said the car actually ran slightly better and there were even some gas stations in California that were carrying the mixture.

    So even if the vegetable oil mixture proves foolhardy I would imagine there are a hundred more similar ideas out there and something will succeed and when it does we can move on, { aaah capitalism.....isn&#39;t it great &#33;..... }.

  19. #19
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Daryl Hannah - she uses the veggie car&#33;&#33;

  20. #20
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Middletown Md
    Posts
    673
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Feb 10 2004, 12:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Feb 10 2004, 12:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tailgators[/i]@Feb 10 2004, 11:31 AM
    [b] He&#39;s a pervert who got away with sexual harrassment. [/b][/quote]
    I thought you supported bill clinton? [/b][/quote]
    CBNY..........1

    TG..............0

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us