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Thread: college offering white only scholarships

  1. #1
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    College group offers whites-only award
    Move protests affirmative action
    Associated Press

    BRISTOL, R.I. -- A student group at Roger Williams University is offering a new scholarship for which only white students are eligible, a move they say is designed to protest affirmative action.

    The application for the $250 award requires an essay on "why you are proud of your white heritage" and a recent picture to "confirm whiteness."

    "Evidence of bleaching will disqualify applicants," says the application, issued by the university's College Republicans.

    Jason Mattera, 20, who is president of the College Republicans, said the group is parodying minority scholarships.

    "We think that if you want to treat someone according to character and how well they achieve academically, then skin color shouldn't really be an option," he said. "Many people think that coming from a white background you're automatically privileged, you're automatically rich and your parents pay full tuition. That's just not the case."

    The stunt has angered some at the university, but the administration is staying out of the fray. The school's provost said it is a student group's initiative and is not endorsed by Roger Williams.

    Mattera, who is of Puerto Rican descent, is himself a recipient of a $5,000 scholarship open only to a minority group.

    "No matter what my ethnicity is, I'm making a statement that scholarships should be given out based on merit and need," Mattera told the Providence Journal.

    The scholarship was for $50 until two donors came forward to add $100 each, Mattera said.

  2. #2
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    Turnabout is fair play.

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    yes it is

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    As an Afro-American (And former atheletic schloarship receiver) I see there being no problem with offering race-based schloraships (Black, white, hispanic, asian, etc, etc.). The stupidity in the arrangement is that it's being used as a combat to affirmative-action.......Why? :huh: :huh: :huh:

    That in itself is just outright racist. There's a very easily quantifiable reason why there are scholarships offered to minorities only, and that has nothing to do with Affirmative Action. Those scholarships are (For a large part) funded by orginizations such as the NAACP, Urban League, and minority fraternal orginizations to fuel intrest in secondary education within a community in which only about 25% of high-school graduates attempt college (And only about 15% of the total population have completed).

    As far as "white only" scholarships are concerned. I'm sure there are 100's that are already in effect, that just didn't need to be designated as "whites only". I'm sure, the large majority of universities in states like North Dakota, South Dakota, Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, etc., in which 99% of the student population is white (Except the atheletes of course :lol: ), in effect offer "whites only scholarships.

    Or......How about all the scholarships offered by the southern methodists, southern baptists, gun rights, American Legion, aerospace-steel-auto unions, types of orginizations. Because blacks/latinos make up such a miniscule portion of this population, these scholarships can be considered, in-effect "whites only".

    So you see fellas, it's not as simple as saying turnabouts fair play. That's because "whites only" scholarships have been in effect even longer than "minorities only" scholarships. This move is simply an "agenda pushing" initiative that does nothing but seperate our nation more, because it doesn't tell the story as a whole.

    [b]TB[/b]

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@Feb 16 2004, 08:46 PM
    [b] Or......How about all the scholarships offered by the southern methodists, southern baptists, gun rights, American Legion, aerospace-steel-auto unions, types of orginizations. Because blacks/latinos make up such a miniscule portion of this population, these scholarships can be considered, in-effect "whites only".

    [/b][/quote]
    TB I understand and respect your position on the matter, and didn't mean to come off as an a**hole, but shouldn't the same be said for the scholarships of the NAACP, Urban League and other fraternal organizations as the southern meth, baptists, etc in your example? They may be open to all people, races, creeds, but they are just as 'restrictive' as the others because they require people to be of a certain religion, trade or background? Out of the examples you provided, I wouldn't be eligable for any of them.

    I have no problem with 'race based' scholarships for African-Americans or other minorities what so ever, specially given the statistics you provided. And I have no doubt that many young minority students have been screwed out of a college scholarship because of their race at some point in time. I think that this college group's intention was two show that some sort of double standard existed. Because within hours of them creating it, it created a fire storm amongst in the press and protests from all over campus. I don't think they were mocking "black only scholarships" as much as they were trying to demonstrate that when there is a white only scholarship people seem to get upset, but if it's miniroty based it's ok. Sure as hell, they created it and within hours people were going nuts calling it racist. Again, it was meant to prove a point, not really be a means for whites to go to school.

    Regardless it's a shame that it's 2004, and people can't be considered on their merits and are DQ'd because of their race. It's not fair for a minority to be kept out of school just because they are of a different race or background. But i think in this instance, this was an experimental 'protest' scholarship created to prove a point: That point being that miniroty scholarships are OK, but white only scholarships are unacceptable and racist themselves.

    I am a scholarship recipient myself. I received a 4 year Army ROTC scholarship winner and served alongside other ROTC scholarship recipients who represented minorites themselves. I guess that's why I have such a hard time with the whole debate. In ROTC and in the Army, we never had racial issues. Once I got out and back to civilian life, reality struck I guess.

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    Rather then say turnabout is fair play this is what the system has caused to my mind...it's like the college in the south where students got in trouble for a cookie sale where white students had to pay $1.25 per cookie, black students $.50 and hispanics $.25; in other words many, including myself, feel the usefulness of Affirmative Action has past.

    [i]That in itself is just outright racist. There's a very easily quantifiable reason why there are scholarships offered to minorities only, and that has nothing to do with Affirmative Action. Those scholarships are (For a large part) funded by orginizations such as the NAACP, Urban League, and minority fraternal orginizations to fuel intrest in secondary education within a community in which only about 25% of high-school graduates attempt college [/i]

    So if a local group of white business owners from the Rotary Club offer a scholarship singularly to members of a poor white neighboorhood with a low percentage of high school graduates that would not be seen as racist? Or, in the case that you use, if ten scholarships are given by the local Lions Club in Whogivesafuq, Idaho and all are awarded to white students but the two or three black students who applied get nothing that would not be viewed as "racist"?

    I too was a scholarship athlete in college and saw a lot of garbage that went on. When I graduated my first preference was to join the FBI but was told outright, "you're white, single and male...you have no chance of getting in!"

    Like GOB said...it's sad people can't just accept others based on their merits alone.

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    [quote][b]TB I understand and respect your position on the matter, and didn't mean to come off as an a**hole, but shouldn't the same be said for the scholarships of the NAACP, Urban League and other fraternal organizations as the southern meth, baptists, etc in your example? They may be open to all people, races, creeds, but they are just as 'restrictive' as the others because they require people to be of a certain religion, trade or background? Out of the examples you provided, I wouldn't be eligable for any of them.

    I have no problem with 'race based' scholarships for African-Americans or other minorities what so ever, specially given the statistics you provided. And I have no doubt that many young minority students have been screwed out of a college scholarship because of their race at some point in time. I think that this college group's intention was two show that some sort of double standard existed. Because within hours of them creating it, it created a fire storm amongst in the press and protests from all over campus. I don't think they were mocking "black only scholarships" as much as they were trying to demonstrate that when there is a white only scholarship people seem to get upset, but if it's miniroty based it's ok. Sure as hell, they created it and within hours people were going nuts calling it racist. Again, it was meant to prove a point, not really be a means for whites to go to school.

    Regardless it's a shame that it's 2004, and people can't be considered on their merits and are DQ'd because of their race. It's not fair for a minority to be kept out of school just because they are of a different race or background. But i think in this instance, this was an experimental 'protest' scholarship created to prove a point: That point being that miniroty scholarships are OK, but white only scholarships are unacceptable and racist themselves.

    I am a scholarship recipient myself. I received a 4 year Army ROTC scholarship winner and served alongside other ROTC scholarship recipients who represented minorites themselves. I guess that's why I have such a hard time with the whole debate. In ROTC and in the Army, we never had racial issues. Once I got out and back to civilian life, reality struck I guess.[/b][/quote]

    I didn't think you were being an A-Hole GOB. I like conversing with you on these types of fourms because I know you're open minded and willing to hear a counterpoint.

    My point is, it pisses me off that groups (Such as this one at RWU) use the "reverse race card" to push their agenda. This because it's a play on soceity's general ignorance on "the other races. [b]For them to say that their scholarship is issued to combat Affirmative Action, is specifically implying that "minority only" scholarships are taken from resources that could've been used to fund better qualfied white students.[/b] As I explained in my previous post, this is an out-an-out lie.

    I think private orginizations should be able to allocate their funds in any manner they choose, as long as is pushing towards the general good of soceity, upward mobility, and overall production. Therefore all scholarships should be considered "positive".

    GOB......There are so many misconceptions being thrown around about educational standards and funding (And not to be political, but mainly by the republicans) that it unfairly skews our perception of the racial impact. Take a look at the accompanying link:

    [url=http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/41_blacks_and_business_schools.html]http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/41_blacks_a...ss_schools.html[/url]

    Last year GWB made a huge deal (Taking it to the Supreme Court nonetheless) about the affirmative action effect on the U. of Michigan's admissions policy (Your home state bro...). Now I agree that the policy was flawed, but to make this issue as big as they did when the total black population of the school was 85 students or 9.9% (who knows how many would've got in regardless of the policy) was strictly set to push an anti affirmative action agenda. It's a striaght up ploy to imply "The blacks are getting over" :lol: .

    What makes it even more funny is that Bush is a legacy student. I'd bet the percentage of legacy students within the UMBS student body is just as high as the percentage of black students (A being a legacy makes you no more qualified than being black). Oh, and 1 more thing. GOB, the tax dollars you spend to fund UMBS also goes towards providing a top tier education to 240 International students. But of course, minorities are getting over.

    Just some food for thought.

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    [quote][b]Rather then say turnabout is fair play this is what the system has caused to my mind...it's like the college in the south where students got in trouble for a cookie sale where white students had to pay $1.25 per cookie, black students $.50 and hispanics $.25; in other words many, including myself, feel the usefulness of Affirmative Action has past.

    That in itself is just outright racist. There's a very easily quantifiable reason why there are scholarships offered to minorities only, and that has nothing to do with Affirmative Action. Those scholarships are (For a large part) funded by orginizations such as the NAACP, Urban League, and minority fraternal orginizations to fuel intrest in secondary education within a community in which only about 25% of high-school graduates attempt college

    So if a local group of white business owners from the Rotary Club offer a scholarship singularly to members of a poor white neighboorhood with a low percentage of high school graduates that would not be seen as racist? Or, in the case that you use, if ten scholarships are given by the local Lions Club in Whogivesafuq, Idaho and all are awarded to white students but the two or three black students who applied get nothing that would not be viewed as "racist"?

    I too was a scholarship athlete in college and saw a lot of garbage that went on. When I graduated my first preference was to join the FBI but was told outright, "you're white, single and male...you have no chance of getting in!"

    Like GOB said...it's sad people can't just accept others based on their merits alone. [/b][/quote]

    Come Back,

    I have no problem with judging folks by their merits. My point towards the orignal message was that there are and have been as many "whites only" scholarships available as there are "minority only" scholarships. So for this orginization to be painting a one-sided story to skew the publics perception of race is DISGUSTING.

    They can be anti-affirmative (I'm not a fan of the current setup myself), just don't push your agenda on a lie and try to play off the publics ignorrance. That's all i'm saying.

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    [i]They can be anti-affirmative (I'm not a fan of the current setup myself), just don't push your agenda on a lie and try to play off the publics ignorrance. That's all i'm saying.[/i]

    Agree with you 1000% here but it works both ways......don't yell "racism" everytime something doesn't go your way or you get left out of something you wanted.

    Doesn't anyone see the irony that the sponsor of this scholarship is hispanic and himself the recipient of a race-based scholarship?

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    [quote][b]Doesn't anyone see the irony that the sponsor of this scholarship is hispanic and himself the recipient of a race-based scholarship? [/b][/quote]

    I don't want to blast the kid, but during our early adult years we are typically very impressionable. I'd find his somewhat radical stance more credible if he'd renounce his scholarship funding and offered it to a poorer white kid with better stats. That's how you make a statement :D

    [quote][b]don't yell "racism" everytime something doesn't go your way or you get left out of something you wanted[/b][/quote]

    Agreed. But one of the biggest problems here (Which lead to the misconceptions) is that a lot of the "media created black leaders" are not refined enough to articulate a clear rebutale towards some of soceity's misjustices. For instance.....I'm not yelling that it's racism that I still can't catch a cab in this city without grabbing one at the light, and begging the guy to take me to Harlem. However, I feel it's soceity's fault and somebody has to do something about...NOT ME.

    When it comes down to it Come Back, the approach that this student group is using does nothing but seperate us as a nation. It's unproductive, divisive, and ignorrant. We gotta get past stuff like this.

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    I totally agree the media is a large part of the problem...in almost every facet of American society as they'd rather stir the sh!t pot then report the news from both sides...and I by no means feel every non-white person screams racism when things don't go their way, even if that is what the media wants to portray.

    I also agree with your view on the student; it is not something I personally would subscribe to but there are people who feel enough is enough and they must be heard like those who are justifiably discriminated against.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@Feb 16 2004, 10:20 PM
    [b]

    [url=http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/41_blacks_and_business_schools.html]http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/41_blacks_a...ss_schools.html[/url]

    [/b][/quote]
    TB...good read.

    I agree that private organizations should be able to dictate how their scholarships are used. I guess my whole point of contention was not the fact that scholarships can be declared 'black, latino only, etc", it's that private organizations that create a scholarship that all but make it a 'white only' scholarship typically catch the wrath of the media and the Political Correctness police, thus the double standard. Now when public money and public funding comes into play, I wholeheartedly agree that the wealth should be spread around. I guess my point is that that should be based on merits, not purely race. Of course the other side of that argument is that some minorities don't have the same opportunity as a say white person to earn such merits. Such is the greatest problem with our current society.


    Curious, from an African-American's point of view, why do you think enrollment is down across the board as stated in the article?

    As for 'minorities getting over', although others may feel that way, that's not the way I look at it. I don't think anyone is 'getting over' at all.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Matt39[/i]@Feb 16 2004, 08:05 PM
    [b] "Evidence of bleaching will disqualify applicants," says the application, issued by the university's College Republicans.

    [/b][/quote]
    i find that a little odd.

    does Michael Jackson go there or something?

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    TB -


    Are you for or against affimative action? Why?

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    I would just like to applaud all of you on a civil discussion. i would invite all posters to take a look at the points and counterpoints and how they were presented in a adult and civil manner. It just shows that we don't have to necessarily agree with each other but we can respect eachother. That said I feel it's time for something else besides affirmative action, some other system put in place to police hirings and scholarships without quotas or special incentives. I'm sorry to say I just don't really know exactly what the answer is.

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    [quote][b]TB -

    Are you for or against affimative action? Why? [/b][/quote]

    I feel it has it's place 5ever. However, the way that it's currently operated, and the fact that it's VERY loosely defined, causes me to be against it on principle. I'm strongly against quotas however, diversity doesn't seem to work when it's forced.

    [quote][b]Curious, from an African-American's point of view, why do you think enrollment is down across the board as stated in the article?[/b][/quote]

    GOB,

    Take note (I should've made this point more clear in my previous post) that this data is regarding B School statistics. Therefore, there can be numerous dynamics that effect the enrollment trends. Here are the four primary reasons enrollment is down IMHO:

    1. Globalization has caused a heavy influx of International applicants. International applicants actually outnumber domestic applicants 2-to-1 at the top 25 MBA programs. Therefore, I know enrollment is down for black/white/hispanic Americans.

    2. We're currently about 5 years past the dot.bomb era. From 99-01, grad school enrollment was up after so many people were laid off from their failed dot.com jobs. With the economy steadily improving, it's rational to assume that there is a higher percentage of upwardly mobile blacks with more secure job situations.

    3. The costs of these top 25 MBA programs is huge. A full-time MBA is about a $100K investment, and there are no guarantees that a job will be waiting for you after those 2 years. It's a risky proposition that most folks who grew up poor aren't willing to take. I'm sure you can understand the trepidation one might feel if he/she doesn't have significant savings, or comes from a family that doesn't have wealth.

    4. A basic lack of outreach programs for potential "qualified" minority candidates. Several years ago the U. of Cal (Berkley) eliminated not only it's qouta based systems, but it also eliminated any sort of recruitment based on race. The result, we currently have 9 black students in Cal Berkley's MBA progam. This would be a-ok with me if this was a private program (Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth), but this is a State school for christ sakes. For them to be actively recruiting kids in Bombay, and completely neglecting kids in Compton (Who's families tax dollars are funding the operations of the school) is a complete joke. So i'd say that the lack of general outreach is another compelling reason why minority enrollment is down.

  17. #17
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    TB -

    What do you mean when you say you feel it "has its place."

    In response to your points:

    1) Increased competition from international students would (I imagine) affect all domestic students equally - meaning that there would be a commensurate drop-off in the amounts of students of ALL races that are accepted in to the top 25 B-schools. Is that the case in actuality? Are international students taking away spots from any race disproportionally? Do AA practices ameliorate the impact of international competition on certain domestic racial groups and not others? Is the top 25 really a representative amount of data with which to generalize or extrapolate? (I don't know the answers to these questions, just thinking about them)

    2) Makes intuitive sense, but I would prefer to see hard evidence....

    3) A decent point, however many MBA programs are at least partially paid for by an employer and cater to people who work the standard 9 to 5 work week, by having classes at nights, for instance. Also - these costs have ALWAYS been huge in real dollar terms, so I feel this isn't an adequate reason for explaning why enrollment is "down" now, as opposed to at some other point in time. If costs are considerably higher in real dollar terms now relative to when enrollment was 'up', than that would make sense...but I do not know the answer to that question. Again, I wonder whether or not the top 25 B-schools is a large enough sample set. In fact, your point 2) addresses the improving economy which would (IMO) tend to take merit away from the high cost argument. Certinaly it is rational to assume that people are willing to incur more cost during periods of robust growth. But again, we'd need to see evidence and there is certainly a lag effect....

    4) A good point. However, my problem with this point and with AA in general is that it treats as similar those people who are perhaps not similar, save for the amount of melanin that they happen to possess. This is really outside of the narrow dicussion you were having with GOB... The lack of "outreach" programs can affect any number of races, latinos, blacks, whites, etc. Why only state the amount of blacks that are currently enrolled as evidence of need? How many latinos are enrolled? How many Asians? How many Creoles? Why is it just outreach programs for "minority" candiates that are needed? Most of your arguments come from an analysis of the high costs of Bschool, which is difficult for minorities to absorb for a variety of reasons, mostly because they tend to have lower incomes, etc. However, there are more poor white people in this country than there are poor minorities, in absolute terms, largely because there are just a lot more whites, period. Therefore, to pursue some uptopian model of "diversity" where diversity does NOT = background, but rather only melanin is absurd and insulting to me. Why do outreach programs have to be race-based? Why can't poor whites derive benefits from outreach programs? Why do we think of "blacks" and "whites" as these homogenous groups, when they aren't, in terms of backgrounds and opportunities? THAT is what divides this country and doesn't tell the entire story, IMO.

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    5Ever....

    I think you missed my post earlier in the thread. Me and GOB were speaking specifically towards the data from this article

    [url=http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/41_blacks_a...ss_schools.html]http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/41_blacks_a...ss_schools.html[/url]

    Towards the specific points

    1. You're right on on all accounts. I actually stated that due to globalization, enrollment is down across the board for blacks/whites/hispanic Americans.

    2. Strictly intuition, just like the rest of my points. I personally know 3 guys who decided to attend Stern Full-Time after they were laid-off from various dot.coms. I'm pretty sure MBA/JD/MD programs all saw increased enrollment between 99-02

    3. 5Ever, The point i was making, and what the article speaks to, is full-time MBA enrollment. In this scenario (Unless you're coming from an IB or MC that's sponsoring your MBA), all cost are the burden of the student. Therefore, within the 2 year period the only income these students would be taking in will be from an internship btw. the 1st and 2nd year.

    There was an article in a recent Businessweek mag (within the past year) that gave an idea of the annual appreciation of B-school costs. I'll try to find it later.....But we all know it's rising faster than intrest rates......

    4. I speak on outreach specifically towards black/latino students because they make up such a small portion of the b-school population (In the case of Cal Berkeley...Blacks/Lations makeup 3% of the student body. These groups makeup about 30-40% of the states population. You gotta admit that seems way out of proportion).

    I'm sorry if my comments on this topic offended you bro...That surely wasn't my intent. I didn't go further into the fact that Berkley dropped it's relationship with a group know as CGMS (The Consortium for short). The consortium is succesful in placing plenty of qualified blacks/latinos/native americans in other top 25 programs such as Stern/Tuck/UMBS/UCLA/UNC/Darden. The extinguishment of this relationship has had an effect on Cal's enrollment numbers as well.

    I'll get back to you on affirmative action later. That's just such a broad topic that we can go on forever with, and I think a discussion board isn't nessecarily the best place to articulate my viewpoint on it. But I'll try, once I get some time.. ;)

  19. #19
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    TB -

    BELIEVE me, you haven't offended me in the least. I enjoy discussing with you and respect your views. I did miss that article, your point about full-time MBA makes total sense then.

    I can see your point about the proportion of Berkely's B school. However, immigration tends to inflate the "disproportionality" a lot, IMO. Immigrants tend to lack the skills required to attend B school and many immigrants do not even consider B school, outreach or no outreach programs. These people have enough trouble even assimilating, let alone attaining advanced degrees. I do not feel that the case of Berkley is a fair barometer of the entire Bschool universe because of the fact that immigration has had such an impact on statewide demographic statistics. What % of minorities have undergrad degrees AND wish to attend Berkeley AND were rejected? What % of whites have college degrees AND wish to attend Berkley AND were rejected?

    You said earlier that only 15% of blacks finish college. You also said that blacks and latinos are 30 to 40% of the CA population. What % of latinos finish college? What % of California latinos do? Probably less than ALL latinos because immigration leads to large influxes of unskilled laborers, which tend to not have college degrees, at least in the short run. So, 15% (or likely less) of the sub-set of 40% (or likely less) actually have college degrees and are eligible to attend Berkely. So, now we are talking about a group that is well under 10% of minorities that are even APPLYING to Berkely. And 3% of Berkley is the total attendence allocation... So, perhaps the ACCEPTANCE rate of minorities is much, much higher than it is for whites, because we cannot assume that all minorities that are eligible to apply to Berkley (less than 10%) are ACTUALLY applying.

    Further, those people in the lowest tax brackets don't pay a lot of income tax (if they do at all) so the argument that they are being taxed without representation in B-schools needs to be investigated further, although in fairness, you made that point about international students and not minorities. But for argument's sake: How much of the total tax revenue that funds Berkeley is supplied by whites? I am willing to bet that in percentage terms, whites pay more of the total tax than their demographic allocation is. Meaning, if whites are 60% of California, I would imagine that they pay MORE THAN 60% of total aggregate taxes, some of which fund Berkley. Do you agree? Should that impact the allocation of white students at state schools? I don't know, these are normative economic issues that involve trade-offs that are (as we can see) difficult to navigate using a broad brush and vary state by state and organization by organization.

    Also - I simply and flatly reject the notion that every public organization should have an participation rate that reflects the populaton dispersion of the community they reside in. (Not accusing you of endorsing this in any way) If blacks are X% of California's population, why should Berkley's B school's black enrollment be X% as well? (Should The UMass basketball team by 75% white, since the Massachusetts is 85% white?) ;)


    My main issue with affirmative action is that it penalizes people for being white. (If you are planning on using it, spare me the line about how AA really doesn't take away spots from whites, THAT is as insulting to my intelligence as this "white-only" scholarship idea is to yours, which I agree with, BTW) The bottom line and irrefutable fact of AA is that if you increase minority levels in schools, you HAVE to decrease majority levels in schools, all other things being constant, like total quantity of demanded enrollment. This is basic economic theory and there is no such thing as a free lunch. Unless total enrollment swells such that simply more students are enrolled, then there is a trade-off involved and even if enrollment swells such that no whites lose spots, the % of minorities has not increased, merely the absolute number has, which is contrary to the Religion of Diversity's cannon ;) . The NAACP and other organizations that give out scholarships are all fine and dandy, and I am sure that each college has nice, non-threateneing language about how race is merely "one of many factors" in the admissions process, but we all know that AA amounts to a de-facto quota system. If you are going to use exmaples of scholarships offered in Montana as evidence of de facto "white only" scholarships, at least be honest enough about what AA actually is, which is a de-facto quota system...the quota levels are just never explicitly defined and are hidden and therefore people spin AA as merely trying to empower minorities and why do hateful bigots opopse THAT? Namely, the ENTIRE POINT of AA is to increase minority enrollment. This is impossibe to do without also decreasing majority enrollment. Want more guns, then you have to produce less butter. There is no way around that fact and no way to spin it. I suspect that you agree with me on this narrow point. Anyway, I think legacy admissions are awful too. Any affirmative action should be income-based....

    Good show!

  20. #20
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    We see eye-to-eye for the most part 5ever......

    The reason why I say AA has it's place, is because there needs to be something in place to repair the minority education conundrum at the root. I will agree, however, that affirmative action isn't the answer to this conundrum.

    There does have to be something put in place to repair the structure of urban education. Speaking from my own race's perspective, I can tell you that minorities had been forcely discouraged from attaining an education from the days of slavery until the University of Auburn national guard conflict in the early 70's. Because of this, minorities don't "value" education to the point in which they need to.

    I firmly believe that the [b]accountbility[/b] for the repiration of this value goes a long way further than the individual. What the answer is to this..I really don't know. I can just say (And i'm sure you agree) that the expectations that soceity places on blacks is way too low. As a community we have to do a lot more, and soceity has to play the role to meet us half way.

    Again, I don't think a message board is the best medium to articulate my point.

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