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Thread: Killing A Police Officer Should Be A Federal Crime

  1. #21

  2. #22
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 04:38 PM
    [b] let me just say that the last sentance of Jetworld's post was pure JACKASSERY and i would never in a million years condone such behavior - when you make a post like that it serves no purpose but to piss people off.

    --

    i will say that for far too many precincts, issuing moving violations often amount to nothing more than municipal tax collection. Its one thing in Newark or Detroit... where YES the moving violations can lead to bigger things -

    but in little towns like where i went to school (Brunswick, ME) there are 30 brand new crusiers in a town of 15,000 and their only purpose is to drive around looking for the out-of-state plate with a headlight thats out or going 29 mph in a 25. there the "bigger things" consist of taking a person downtown for having an expired registration. (and no it never happened to me or even any1 i knew). This is a town that averages one homocide every 5 years (and its state-wide news...). I mean yeah occasionally they pick up a local DWI and that's a positive thing ...

    im not saying that law and order are bad things (cause they CLEARLY aren't) but many times the idea of public safety get trotted about when really its more about municipal revenue.

    oh yeah and im still waiting for an answer RE: the NYPD cop - even though it wasn't Murder 1 (or 2) why isn't it criminal negigence or manslaughter when you shoot a man in the chest on accident? Cause he's a cop? :blink: [/b][/quote]
    bitonti I completely agree.

    I live in a small town as well...theres been about 1 murder in the past 10 years.

    Yet tax dollars are being spent on cops to have SUV'S to cruise around in and write a few meaningless tickets. Its ridiculous.

    I mean are these Explorers really neccesary.

    Absolutely not, but hey if the police need them...they can have them.

  3. #23
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 03:38 PM
    [b] let me just say that the last sentance of Jetworld's post was pure JACKASSERY and i would never in a million years condone such behavior - when you make a post like that it serves no purpose but to piss people off.

    --

    i will say that for far too many precincts, issuing moving violations often amount to nothing more than municipal tax collection. Its one thing in Newark or Detroit... where YES the moving violations can lead to bigger things -

    but in little towns like where i went to school (Brunswick, ME) there are 30 brand new crusiers in a town of 15,000 and their only purpose is to drive around looking for the out-of-state plate with a headlight thats out or going 29 mph in a 25. there the "bigger things" consist of taking a person downtown for having an expired registration. (and no it never happened to me or even any1 i knew). This is a town that averages one homocide every 5 years (and its state-wide news...). I mean yeah occasionally they pick up a local DWI and that's a positive thing ...

    im not saying that law and order are bad things (cause they CLEARLY aren't) but many times the idea of public safety get trotted about when really its more about municipal revenue.

    oh yeah and im still waiting for an answer RE: the NYPD cop - even though it wasn't Murder 1 (or 2) why isn't it criminal negigence or manslaughter when you shoot a man in the chest on accident? Cause he's a cop? :blink: [/b][/quote]
    Bit if you remember the thread from a month ago that covered this subject you'll see that Stew and I conceded that 'revenue generating' fact.

    There's no doubt some cities use tickets as a purley revenue generating device. My city wants us to write tickets for that reason, and many of us won't. I think a city/township/etc that bases their budget on ticket revenue is absurd.

    Traffic stops are the easiest ways for us to fight crime and get criminals. To commit their crime, they have to get to where they are going, with their guns, drugs, tools of the trade, etc. That's the best time to get them.

    In the past 3 weeks, I've got the following off people on a traffic stop: (Jetworld this is for you)

    1lb Marijuana with scales
    5 oz Cocaine
    1 .38 special revolver
    1 stolen vehicle
    2 suspects who had just fled a neighboring department
    3 people with outstanding felony warrants for drugs, and other dangerous crimes.

  4. #24
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Matt39+Feb 18 2004, 03:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Matt39 @ Feb 18 2004, 03:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 04:38 PM
    [b] let me just say that the last sentance of Jetworld&#39;s post was pure JACKASSERY and i would never in a million years condone such behavior - when you make a post like that it serves no purpose but to piss people off.

    --

    i will say that for far too many precincts, issuing moving violations often amount to nothing more than municipal tax collection. Its one thing in Newark or Detroit... where YES the moving violations can lead to bigger things -

    but in little towns like where i went to school (Brunswick, ME) there are 30 brand new crusiers in a town of 15,000 and their only purpose is to drive around looking for the out-of-state plate with a headlight thats out or going 29 mph in a 25. there the "bigger things" consist of taking a person downtown for having an expired registration. (and no it never happened to me or even any1 i knew). This is a town that averages one homocide every 5 years (and its state-wide news...). I mean yeah occasionally they pick up a local DWI and that&#39;s a positive thing ...

    im not saying that law and order are bad things (cause they CLEARLY aren&#39;t) but many times the idea of public safety get trotted about when really its more about municipal revenue.

    oh yeah and im still waiting for an answer RE: the NYPD cop - even though it wasn&#39;t Murder 1 (or 2) why isn&#39;t it criminal negigence or manslaughter when you shoot a man in the chest on accident? Cause he&#39;s a cop? :blink: [/b][/quote]
    bitonti I completely agree.

    I live in a small town as well...theres been about 1 murder in the past 10 years.

    Yet tax dollars are being spent on cops to have SUV&#39;S to cruise around in and write a few meaningless tickets. Its ridiculous.

    I mean are these Explorers really neccesary.

    Absolutely not, but hey if the police need them...they can have them. [/b][/quote]
    Matt...does it snow where you live?

  5. #25
    Yes it snows.

    are you telling me that cars dont have 4 wheel drive?

    They regular cruisers seemed to work just fine for a while.

  6. #26
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 02:38 PM
    [b] let me just say that the last sentance of Jetworld&#39;s post was pure JACKASSERY and i would never in a million years condone such behavior - when you make a post like that it serves no purpose but to piss people off.

    --

    i will say that for far too many precincts, issuing moving violations often amount to nothing more than municipal tax collection. Its one thing in Newark or Detroit... where YES the moving violations can lead to bigger things -

    but in little towns like where i went to school (Brunswick, ME) there are 30 brand new crusiers in a town of 15,000 and their only purpose is to drive around looking for the out-of-state plate with a headlight thats out or going 29 mph in a 25. there the "bigger things" consist of taking a person downtown for having an expired registration. (and no it never happened to me or even any1 i knew). This is a town that averages one homocide every 5 years (and its state-wide news...). I mean yeah occasionally they pick up a local DWI and that&#39;s a positive thing ...

    im not saying that law and order are bad things (cause they CLEARLY aren&#39;t) but many times the idea of public safety get trotted about when really its more about municipal revenue.

    oh yeah and im still waiting for an answer RE: the NYPD cop - even though it wasn&#39;t Murder 1 (or 2) why isn&#39;t it criminal negigence or manslaughter when you shoot a man in the chest on accident? Cause he&#39;s a cop? :blink: [/b][/quote]
    OK, where is the negligence? As I said, he was following his dept procedure in having his gun out (which is not good policy)

    Manslaughter? Is there some other factors involved? Mitigating circumstances like alcohol? drugs?, Was it a crime of passion?

    You just dont start out at murder and work your way back until you "get him with something".

    The incident has to fit the criteria of the charge in order for it to be considered.

  7. #27
    stewdawg im not an expert... but what about "reckless discharge of a firearm" that Guns mentioned?

    im not a lawbook but i just can&#39;t believe that a cop can get startled and waste someone without ANY reprocussions besides his personal regret and bad memories... if personal regret and bad memories were enough punishment then the jails would be empty. just cause a man is a police officer doesn&#39;t make him above the basic law that you can&#39;t kill people.

  8. #28
    how about the Jayson Williams incident?

    That was also recless discharge correct?

  9. #29
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Matt39[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 03:47 PM
    [b] Yes it snows.

    are you telling me that cars dont have 4 wheel drive?

    They regular cruisers seemed to work just fine for a while. [/b][/quote]
    Matt I&#39;m not lying when I say this................


    Ford Crown Victorias, the predominant police car in the US, are about as good in the snow as tricycles. They are rear wheel drive, and since they are so front heavy with the engine, one push of the gas pedal and the rear end is all over the place. I mean ALL OVER THE PLACE. They are possibly the worst car I&#39;ve ever driven in snow, and I&#39;m from the Upper Penisnsula, the snow capital of MI. The Crown Vics are absolute GARBAGE in the snow. You have to put it in 2nd, take the overdrive off and crawl to your destination. That&#39;s not good if it&#39;s a priority call or life saving situation.

  10. #30
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 02:50 PM
    [b] stewdawg im not an expert... but what about "reckless discharge of a firearm" that Guns mentioned?

    im not a lawbook but i just can&#39;t believe that a cop can get startled and waste someone without ANY reprocussions besides his personal regret and bad memories... if personal regret and bad memories were enough punishment then the jails would be empty. just cause a man is a police officer doesn&#39;t make him above the basic law that you can&#39;t kill people. [/b][/quote]
    Nor am I an expert, and even less so if we are talking NY law, but the key word is reckless.

    The LAW defines reckless. Is reckless the twitch of a trigger finger for a instant of a second? Is reckless tossing your weapon from hand to hand like a cowboy? Is reckless twirling your gun on your finger like Jesse James? Is reckless shooting at rats on a roof top?

    Answer what reckless is, in the eyes of the LAW, and I&#39;m sure you will better understand the decision to no bill.

  11. #31
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    Speaking of work, I&#39;m off to it.


    You guys have fun, I&#39;ll be back to this forum later for some good debating.


    GOB

  12. #32
    [quote][i]Originally posted by The Gun Of Bavaria+Feb 18 2004, 05:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (The Gun Of Bavaria @ Feb 18 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Matt39[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 03:47 PM
    [b] Yes it snows.

    are you telling me that cars dont have 4 wheel drive?

    They regular cruisers seemed to work just fine for a while. [/b][/quote]
    Matt I&#39;m not lying when I say this................


    Ford Crown Victorias, the predominant police car in the US, are about as good in the snow as tricycles. They are rear wheel drive, and since they are so front heavy with the engine, one push of the gas pedal and the rear end is all over the place. I mean ALL OVER THE PLACE. They are possibly the worst car I&#39;ve ever driven in snow, and I&#39;m from the Upper Penisnsula, the snow capital of MI. The Crown Vics are absolute GARBAGE in the snow. You have to put it in 2nd, take the overdrive off and crawl to your destination. That&#39;s not good if it&#39;s a priority call or life saving situation. [/b][/quote]
    ok gun...I apologize.

    I wasnt aware of how bad the cars can be.

  13. #33
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Matt39+Feb 18 2004, 04:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Matt39 @ Feb 18 2004, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -The Gun Of Bavaria@Feb 18 2004, 05:00 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--Matt39[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 03:47 PM
    [b] Yes it snows.

    are you telling me that cars dont have 4 wheel drive?

    They regular cruisers seemed to work just fine for a while. [/b][/quote]
    Matt I&#39;m not lying when I say this................


    Ford Crown Victorias, the predominant police car in the US, are about as good in the snow as tricycles. They are rear wheel drive, and since they are so front heavy with the engine, one push of the gas pedal and the rear end is all over the place. I mean ALL OVER THE PLACE. They are possibly the worst car I&#39;ve ever driven in snow, and I&#39;m from the Upper Penisnsula, the snow capital of MI. The Crown Vics are absolute GARBAGE in the snow. You have to put it in 2nd, take the overdrive off and crawl to your destination. That&#39;s not good if it&#39;s a priority call or life saving situation. [/b][/quote]
    ok gun...I apologize.

    I wasnt aware of how bad the cars can be. [/b][/quote]
    Not a problem.


    Off to work...later fellas

  14. #34
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 02:50 PM
    [b] stewdawg im not an expert... but what about "reckless discharge of a firearm" that Guns mentioned?

    im not a lawbook but i just can&#39;t believe that a cop can get startled and waste someone without ANY reprocussions besides his personal regret and bad memories... if personal regret and bad memories were enough punishment then the jails would be empty. just cause a man is a police officer doesn&#39;t make him above the basic law that you can&#39;t kill people. [/b][/quote]
    I missed part of your quote the first time around...

    "If personal regret....then the jails would be empty." But factor in we are talking about an UNINTENTIONAL act. Not too many guys are doing 30 years for acts they did not consider commiting...

    This cop did not set out that night to kill a man, or rob somebody or break into somebodies apartment etc...

  15. #35
    [quote][i]Originally posted by The Gun Of Bavaria+Feb 18 2004, 02:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (The Gun Of Bavaria @ Feb 18 2004, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jetworld[/i]@Feb 18 2004, 02:29 PM
    [b] I dunno Guns, sounds like shoddy police work also played a huge role in the deaths of those two officers.

    The facts still aren&#39;t clear. Did the thug hop out of his car and immediately shoot, as you stated, or did he walk up to the car and shoot at point-blank range, as you also stated?

    How does one "two bit punk ass *****" take out two professionally trained law enforcement officers? What the hell were the cops doing? Maybe it&#39;s time the DPD stops issuing guns and uniforms to every "Jessica Lynch" case who needs a job.

    Not that I&#39;m siding with the felon here, but it&#39;s funny how you can minimize the reality of going to jail on a "pathetic little misdemeanor narcotics warrant," when at the same time, two crime fighting officers were so horny to write a minor traffic citation.

    Personally, I wish cops would lay off the minor traffic violators, unless they create a positively dangerous situation. I&#39;ll never have any respect for cops who, for example, waste their time stopping a motorist whose wheels were slightly rolling at a stop sign. Prissy faggot sh-t like that makes me wanna shove their guns up their asses, and squeeze off a few rounds. [/b][/quote]
    Jetworld.......


    You&#39;re an f-ing idiot. Evidently your garbage driving record and frequent interaction with the police on the highways continues to cloud what little brain you have. We&#39;ve already had this discussion about the traffic stops, tickets and the like and we already concluded that you think the freeway is your personal autobahn, and you think you should be able to drive as reckless as you&#39;d like. Boo hoo crybaby. Learn how to drive.

    Yeah the 2 officers messed up. but there&#39;s no use badmouthing their corpses in front of their grieving families right now is there, unless it&#39;s you who seems to get off on police dying.

    The officer in the passenger seat typically has the responsibility of watching the vehicle and nothing more, while his/her partner writes the ticket or runs the ops through the system. Plenty of times, I&#39;ve sat in the passenger seat with my gun out because there is way too much movement going on inside the car for my comfort, up til now, it&#39;s always been nothing. Unfortunately, one of the cops greatest enemies, complacency took over and cost them their lives.

    When that guy&#39;s car door opened the one of the officers should have jumped out with his gun drawn, plain and simple. But they weren&#39;t paying attention and they lost their lives. The typical distance between vehicles in a traffic stop is 2 car lenghts. When getting fired upon with a .40, that is point blank enough.

    And I doubt the officers were wring a "Jetsworld Memorial Traffic Citation" jackmule, they were running the guy to see if he had warrants, allowing them to do some further digging inside the car, i.e. look for drugs,e tc. That&#39;s what good proactive police officers do, they dig and find it before it happens, they don&#39;t sit like firemen inside a house waiting to be called. In your little world, officers would do nothing short of witnessing a CSC or a murder.


    As for your desire to squeeze a couple rounds up officers&#39; asses, you know where I live and where I work. Anytime you&#39;re up for it just let me know. U best pack a lunch. [/b][/quote]
    Guns --

    You&#39;re the one losing your head over this, tough guy.

    I guess everytime I see you holding law enforcers above everybody else, I&#39;m just gonna chime in to remind you that some cops are worthless f-ckheads who prey on harmless people. That&#39;s all. You do your part, I&#39;ll do mine. Hopefully, you can look beyond your gun-wielding macho bullsh-t long enough to see reality.

    I&#39;m already at work, and I can&#39;t keep this junk on my screen.

    For the other posters here:

    I&#39;m curious. How many of you, when you&#39;re driving in particular, and see a cop, think "Oh good, there&#39;s a cop."

    How many think, "Damn, there&#39;s a cop?"

  16. #36
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    Cops prey on harmless people?

    Where did that come from? I guess you are talking about writing tickets to people that "dont deserve them" again?

    Traffic laws are in place for reasons. They werent made by cops, but cops are used to enforce them. As I said earlier, traffic stops can lead to much bigger things.

    As far as who gets stopped and why, how do you know the reasons, or the outcome? Maybe the cop who stopped your "little old lady" told her to be more careful next time. Maybe he wrote her a ticket for not wearing her seatbelt, instead of the more serious (penalty wise) stop sign ticket. Maybe he wrote her a handful of tickets for every violation he found after she told him how she knows the mayor and she pays his salary, and she&#39;ll have him transferred "tomorrow".

    As far as being happy to see a cop, I&#39;m happy to see a cop drive down my street, and I wave to them. They have no idea who I am. When I&#39;m driving and see a cop, I look at my speedometer, just like everybody else, but my car doesnt go all that fast, so its usually not a problem.

    People who fear the police are the ones who have had bad encounters with the police, and if you have had more than one, its you, not the cop...

  17. #37
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    The wide spread use of the death penalty in the United States has only served to cheapen the value of life in our country.

    Isn&#39;t it interesting that the murder rate is so high in Detroit, MI, yet only a short drive across the Detroit River is Windsor, Ontario where people live in relative safety.

    In regard to gun violence there is definitely a defect in the American culture.

  18. #38
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    "Hey guys, I saw Bowling for Columbine and visited Egypt&#33;&#33;"

  19. #39
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Mar 1 2004, 10:08 AM
    [b] "Hey guys, I saw Bowling for Columbine and visited Egypt&#33;&#33;" [/b][/quote]
    "Hey guys, I visited the Magic Kingdom and my views are straight from [i]Fantasy Land[/i]&#33;"

  20. #40
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by tailgators+Mar 1 2004, 09:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (tailgators @ Mar 1 2004, 09:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--jets5ever[/i]@Mar 1 2004, 10:08 AM
    [b] "Hey guys, I saw Bowling for Columbine and visited Egypt&#33;&#33;" [/b][/quote]
    "Hey guys, I visited the Magic Kingdom and my views are straight from [i]Fantasy Land[/i]&#33;" [/b][/quote]
    Good one, Bro-ham. Welcome back Tail. B)

    How was the trip?

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