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  1. #21
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by JetsD-Mastermind[/i]@Apr 2 2004, 08:22 PM
    [b] Vilma is not too small, he's 6'0 1/2, and 230lbs, there are plenty of very good small middle linebackers in this league.

    Shelton Quarles, Donnie Edwards, Zack Thomas, Dat Nygen, Mark Simoneau, Dan Morgan, Mike Peterson, London Fletcher, and Al Wilson. [/b][/quote]
    Thank you Jets D.

    That "too small" label goes around way too much here.

    THIS GUY IS A PLAYMAKER!

    I really love Lehman in this draft also. I really hope Cowart can get it together playing in the middle but I just think he is done.

    I hope I'm wrong.

  2. #22
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    I think if we trade down, Vilma would be great. But with the number 12 pick, we should probably go DeAngelo Hall. He seems to be a game changer. I didn't watch Hall's college games but I think that he could be a really great fit, given the great reviews I've heard.

    I'd consider a receiver in the second round if we get that pick from a team.

    Haha, listen to me. Acting as if I&#39;m Terry Bradway. He&#39;s gonna do what he wants, and there ain&#39;t nothin no one can do about it. <gulp&#33;>

  3. #23
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bob the Jets Fan™+Apr 2 2004, 08:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Bob the Jets Fan™ @ Apr 2 2004, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -NYJetsro71@Apr 2 2004, 07:33 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--abraham-94[/i]@Apr 2 2004, 07:20 PM
    [b] whats wrong with vilma?

    1)hes small

    2)Hobson - 2nd year of new deal
    Cowart - has like 4 years left
    Barton - newly signed

    where will he make that impact? hes too small to take cowarts spot and cut him, you cant give #12 money to someone who will warm your bench for the next 4 years, we need a player who can make an impact now, a Sean Taylor, a Mike Williams, a DeAngelo Hall, a Vince Wilfork, thats what we need [/b][/quote]
    excellent post. Vilma would sit on the bench for 3 years. Draft D Hall or a WR that could start next year if Donnie Abraham or Santana Moss bail. [/b][/quote]
    What are you people thinking?

    Cowart is definitely on the downside of his career. Even if he weren&#39;t, you&#39;re NOT going to get through the season with three linebackers.

    Vilma would not warm the bench for three years. It&#39;s idiotic to say he would.

    If they draft that idiot Kellen Winslow, I&#39;ll be forced to start JetsOutsiders.com. [/b][/quote]
    Cowart might not be as good as he was Pre-injury but i think he is alot better then you give him credit for, how good would you look if you were playing along the 2 fossils

    3 linebackers? Who are Barton, Cowart, Hobson, Glenn, and on some time John Abraham? that looks like 5 quality linebackers to me, i agree that we should pick up one more quality linebacker, BUT NOT AT THE #12 PICK, trade down to 20&#39;s, draft Dunta Robinson and use the 2nd that we pick up on a linebacker(Lehman maybe)

    or Draft a Playmaker that will not be stuck on the bench for 3 years, how is it idiotic, he will only see time when Hobson or Barton need a play off, and there 2 young guns who wouldnt need much time off, Vilma cant play the middle(hes undersized for the outside, no way hes on the inside who are generally heavier) he wont be replacing cowart, get that out of your heads now

  4. #24
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by abraham-94+Apr 2 2004, 08:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (abraham-94 @ Apr 2 2004, 08:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -Bob the Jets Fan™@Apr 2 2004, 08:15 PM
    [b] [quote]Originally posted by -NYJetsro71@Apr 2 2004, 07:33 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--abraham-94[/i]@Apr 2 2004, 07:20 PM
    [b] whats wrong with vilma?

    1)hes small

    2)Hobson - 2nd year of new deal
    Cowart - has like 4 years left
    Barton - newly signed

    where will he make that impact? hes too small to take cowarts spot and cut him, you cant give #12 money to someone who will warm your bench for the next 4 years, we need a player who can make an impact now, a Sean Taylor, a Mike Williams, a DeAngelo Hall, a Vince Wilfork, thats what we need [/b][/quote]
    excellent post. Vilma would sit on the bench for 3 years. Draft D Hall or a WR that could start next year if Donnie Abraham or Santana Moss bail. [/b][/quote]
    What are you people thinking?

    Cowart is definitely on the downside of his career. Even if he weren&#39;t, you&#39;re NOT going to get through the season with three linebackers.

    Vilma would not warm the bench for three years. It&#39;s idiotic to say he would.

    If they draft that idiot Kellen Winslow, I&#39;ll be forced to start JetsOutsiders.com. [/b][/quote]
    Cowart might not be as good as he was Pre-injury but i think he is alot better then you give him credit for, how good would you look if you were playing along the 2 fossils

    3 linebackers? Who are Barton, Cowart, Hobson, Glenn, and on some time John Abraham? that looks like 5 quality linebackers to me, i agree that we should pick up one more quality linebacker, BUT NOT AT THE #12 PICK, trade down to 20&#39;s, draft Dunta Robinson and use the 2nd that we pick up on a linebacker(Lehman maybe)

    or Draft a Playmaker that will not be stuck on the bench for 3 years, how is it idiotic, he will only see time when Hobson or Barton need a play off, and there 2 young guns who wouldnt need much time off, Vilma cant play the middle(hes undersized for the outside, no way hes on the inside who are generally heavier) he wont be replacing cowart, get that out of your heads now [/b][/quote]
    Glenn is nothing but a nickel backer/special teamer, Cowart stinks and yes he could have been good even playing next to Lewis and Jones. Just get over the notion that this guy is above average, because he&#39;s not, he&#39;s below average.

    The only time ever that John Abe plays linebacker is when JETS use the 3-4 in a game once or twice, and he&#39;ll be rushing the passer the whole time.

    I&#39;m for going Secondary or Linebacker, because the JETS still need more speed & playmakers in that back seven.

  5. #25
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    Have you guys seen how quick he is and the way he attacks the ball carrier, hard enough to cause fumbles and that&#39;s the type of player that the JETS need?

  6. #26
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    Whoa, why the hating on Cowart?

    He is finally returning to the position he was BUILT to play, he&#39;s only 28, those who say he is slow and on the downside of his career don&#39;t have a clue. The guy was forced to cover areas of the field last year that were not his own, he was all over the field last year, but he also played undisciplined football, overcompensating in areas where he thought he was helping the other two schmoes, Lewis and Jones, but then leaving his own "area" of the field.

    Now he returns to MLB, which is where he needs to be.

    That said, I think the Jets will go Hall or Vilma with the #12 pick. Don&#39;t be so sure Vilma will be available after #15, when the Bucs pick, Vilma has received a LOT of comparisons to Brooks, and even Ray Lewis, to say he is small at 6&#39;1 233 is just ridiculous, plus he has a frame where he can add weight and not be slowed by the extra muscle.

    Vilma makes the most sense from an ability standpoint, his speed and playmaking ability are among the best at the position, plus, he&#39;s extremely instinctive and intelligent, that alone will boost up his value. Vilma also has outstanding character, he is probably Miami&#39;s top prospect in this area, he just plays the game, hard, and doesn&#39;t talk about it.

    If Hall isn&#39;t available, I say draft Vilma.

  7. #27
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    BAP at #12 (not vilma)

    or trade down w/ SF at #16 so they can get their WR or DT and then take Vilma - i would be very happy with him being a jet

  8. #28
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    I like vilma.And i agree that we must get M.williams,winslow or roy.If they are there.

    And if he is undersized then why dont we get DJ

    no body has answered this question who is better vilma or DJ.

    If we get one of these linebackers then our front 7 will be unstobable.

  9. #29
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    Jesus,i just saw that he is 225 that is how much CP weighs.

    I didnt know he was this small.

    Maybe iam wrong but with size like that will he be able to be good at nfl level.

  10. #30
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    I think no1 is saying Vilma is better b/c DJ is bigger. If Vilma is DJ&#39;s size then he would be hands down a top 15 pick. This kid has some unbleivable upside and intangibles you die to see in your LB. I don&#39;t think his size will cause a problem (London Flethcer) b/c he is THAT good.

    BAP at #12

    Trade down for Vilma (16-20)

  11. #31
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    I would really like to get Vilma and get scared when people start putting work outs in the way of their evaluation. Good players make plays period..I know that #12 may be a slight reach, but he would address a huge need and can make the defense better which is a sore spot for the Jets.

  12. #32
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by The Chad[/i]@Apr 3 2004, 10:19 AM
    [b] I think no1 is saying Vilma is better b/c DJ is bigger. If Vilma is DJ&#39;s size then he would be hands down a top 15 pick. This kid has some unbleivable upside and intangibles you die to see in your LB. I don&#39;t think his size will cause a problem (London Flethcer) b/c he is THAT good.

    BAP at #12

    Trade down for Vilma (16-20) [/b][/quote]
    If Vilma had DJ&#39;s size, Vilma would be a top 10, maybe even a top 5 choice.

  13. #33
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    :ph34r: I want Hall at #12 but I&#39;m drawn between also taking a receiver.......dammit&#33;&#33;&#33;

    Has to be either Hall or a receiver.

  14. #34
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    This reciever talk is ridiculous, the JETS DON&#39;T NEED TO BLOW A FIRST ROUND PICK A ON A RECIEVER.

    They still need linebacker and secondary help, alot more then a god damn reciever.

  15. #35
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    Those wanting the Jets to take a WR with the #12 pick are crazy...

    They just spent their 2nd round pick on the position, why would anybody want the Jets to use their top two picks in this draft for the WR position?

    I agree with the premise to stock Pennington&#39;s arsenal, but you don&#39;t overkill at one position. Any rookie WR at this point is no higher than #4 on the depth chart, I have no interest in using my first round pick, much less the 12th overall pick for that player.

    The ONLY offensive player that makes sense is Winslow.

    Since he will probably not be available, Hall and Vilma are my top two choices, and the most probable for the team, and SHOULD be.

    We need a stud CB.

    Right now, the team&#39;s top two needs are CB and then S, followed closely by LB. But LB and CB make the most sense in the first two rounds due to the talent valued and what will be available, S doesn&#39;t have that kind of talent in the draft after Taylor.

    We have a #1 and a #1A WR tandem in Moss and McCareins, if Chrebet is back he is a very solid #3. We have some nice young talent in Rambo, Hamilton, and Jon Carter who showed flashes last year.

    NO WAY in hell should we be investing our first round pick on WR.

    W e need to redistribute the talent on this team, WR and DL should NOT be the pick in the first round.

  16. #36
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    the question was "whats wrong with Vilma?"

    the answer is not only are there size concerns (he played last season at 215) but now there are speed concerns as well - he only ran a 4.6 on a FAST miami track - which translates to 4.7 (at least) on the slow indy track

    you look at Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis there were size concerns but these were THICK dudes - Vilma is not naturally thick - he&#39;s naturally rangy.

    He bulked up but got slower in the process - in this draft, where there will be STUDS GALORE at 12 you can&#39;t take a guy 6&#39;0 and 230 who runs a 4.7. Its not good value. Lehman ran a 4.5 on the slow Indy track with 6 weeks less of training. You can take Mike Williams, Reggie Williams, Starks, Harris, Shawn Andrews, Dunta, maybe Hall etc etc - even if you reach for a monster DT like Washington, Olshansky or Tubbs its all better value at 12 spot than Vilma.

    i wouldn&#39;t cry about the pick, due to the intangibles but like i said its not value for selection.

    ps- you guys think taking a receiver are crazy - wake up and smell the java - the last three SB winners ran 3 WR sets. not only that but the draft isn&#39;t for next year its for 2006 or 07. YOu can&#39;t draft a Dunta or a Vilma and start him its madness. Parcells has a rule you take a loss for however many true rookies you start - and he didn&#39;t heed his own advice when the cowboys Terrence NEwman (a 5 pick) got *****ed all around the playoffs last season.

  17. #37
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Apr 3 2004, 05:26 PM
    [b] the question was "whats wrong with Vilma?"

    the answer is not only are there size concerns (he played last season at 215) but now there are speed concerns as well - he only ran a 4.6 on a FAST miami track - which translates to 4.7 (at least) on the slow indy track

    you look at Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis there were size concerns but these were THICK dudes - Vilma is not naturally thick - he&#39;s naturally rangy.

    He bulked up but got slower in the process - in this draft, where there will be STUDS GALORE at 12 you can&#39;t take a guy 6&#39;0 and 230 who runs a 4.7. Its not good value. Lehman ran a 4.5 on the slow Indy track with 6 weeks less of training. You can take Mike Williams, Reggie Williams, Starks, Harris, Shawn Andrews, Dunta, maybe Hall etc etc - even if you reach for a monster DT like Washington, Olshansky or Tubbs its all better value at 12 spot than Vilma.

    i wouldn&#39;t cry about the pick, due to the intangibles but like i said its not value for selection.

    ps- you guys think taking a receiver are crazy - wake up and smell the java - the last three SB winners ran 3 WR sets. not only that but the draft isn&#39;t for next year its for 2006 or 07. YOu can&#39;t draft a Dunta or a Vilma and start him its madness. Parcells has a rule you take a loss for however many true rookies you start - and he didn&#39;t heed his own advice when the cowboys Terrence NEwman (a 5 pick) got *****ed all around the playoffs last season. [/b][/quote]
    So what they ran 3 recievers sets? Did you also notice the last 3 superbowl champions had ALOT of playmakers on defense, and the JETS need more in that back 7.

    Does this mean the JETS should take a reciever with the 12th pick? I agree the JETS could add more solid recievers and depth to give the JETS the ability to run more schemes. Sign Antonio Freeman, he still has great hands, and would be a great slot reciever just incase Chrebet can&#39;t play anymore.


    Bitonti, Lehman has 4.5 speed, but his hip movement sticks and he&#39;s not a great athlete, and he&#39;s not a first round because he stinks in coverage, he has good straightline speed big deal.

    Vilma is still a great athlete, with terrific hip movement, he&#39;s still terrific in coverage. Put on top of that, he&#39;s a fiery leader in the mold of Ray Lewis, he has that type of personality, where he will rattle the cages, and when he speaks people listen. Vilma has great instincts, he&#39;s extremely smart, and is a student of the game.

    Stop knocking his size, thats just plain ignorant, there are plenty of very good smallish middle linebackers that succeed in this league.

  18. #38
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Apr 3 2004, 05:26 PM
    [b] the question was "whats wrong with Vilma?"

    the answer is not only are there size concerns (he played last season at 215) but now there are speed concerns as well - he only ran a 4.6 on a FAST miami track - which translates to 4.7 (at least) on the slow indy track

    you look at Derrick Brooks and Ray Lewis there were size concerns but these were THICK dudes - Vilma is not naturally thick - he&#39;s naturally rangy.

    He bulked up but got slower in the process - in this draft, where there will be STUDS GALORE at 12 you can&#39;t take a guy 6&#39;0 and 230 who runs a 4.7. Its not good value. Lehman ran a 4.5 on the slow Indy track with 6 weeks less of training. You can take Mike Williams, Reggie Williams, Starks, Harris, Shawn Andrews, Dunta, maybe Hall etc etc - even if you reach for a monster DT like Washington, Olshansky or Tubbs its all better value at 12 spot than Vilma.

    i wouldn&#39;t cry about the pick, due to the intangibles but like i said its not value for selection.

    ps- you guys think taking a receiver are crazy - wake up and smell the java - the last three SB winners ran 3 WR sets. not only that but the draft isn&#39;t for next year its for 2006 or 07. YOu can&#39;t draft a Dunta or a Vilma and start him its madness. Parcells has a rule you take a loss for however many true rookies you start - and he didn&#39;t heed his own advice when the cowboys Terrence NEwman (a 5 pick) got *****ed all around the playoffs last season. [/b][/quote]
    WOW&#33;

    great point

    take the williams triplets - you can have one of them&#33;

  19. #39
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    hey D-mastermind - Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, Zach Thomas, Dexter Coakley, Dat Ngyuen etc none of these guys ran as SLOW as Vilma did on his home track. Its one thing to say "hey a guy is small but he can run so we will take a chance *at the end of the first round mind you not at 12* - with Vilma you have a guy who is small who _CAN&#39;T_ run... ya know who runs 4.6-4.7? James Darling and a million other ****bums not worth a damn that&#39;s who...

    by the way i agree with your assessment of Lehman especially in the hips, but the fact remains he&#39;s a FAR BETTER athlete than Vilma. Vilma will go higher in the draft but it won&#39;t be by much. Basically all Jon has to offer is intangibles at this point and while that&#39;s all well and good you don&#39;t take those guys at 12.

    RE: 3 WR its not just the PATS, BUCS its also the RAMS too - basically you have to go back to the Ravens sick Defense before you get to a run-first 2WR team that won the SB.

    basically the best player on the JETS is CHad and they need to give him more weapons - this JETS team is FAR more likely to win 31-28 then 13-7 its the way the franchise has ALWAYS been and it will take more than 1 draft to change that. I agree they need help on defense but the draft should be about value, not need. Taking Vilma at 12 would be about 10 spots too early - Hall would be a fantastic pick but he won&#39;t make it out of the top 10 at this point. Dunta at 12?

  20. #40
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    just take one of the williams and stop arguing

    my boy above me is abs. right, Penny is the franchise and THAT&#39;S THAT&#33; drafting vilma is not building around ur franchise player.

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