Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Bush is a big fat stinky liar.

  1. #1
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    State Location Here
    Posts
    8,134
    [quote][b]OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM
    Saddam's WMD
    have been found
    New evidence unveils chemical, biological, nuclear,
    ballistic arms

    Posted: April 26, 2004
    1:36 p.m. Eastern

    By Kenneth R. Timmerman
    2004 Insight/News World Communications Inc.

    New evidence out of Iraq suggests the U.S. effort to track down Saddam
    Hussein's missing weapons of mass destruction is having better success than is
    being reported.

    Key assertions by the intelligence community widely judged in the media and by
    critics of President Bush as having been false are turning out to have been true
    after all.

    But this stunning news has received little attention from the major media, and the
    president's critics continue to insist that "no weapons" have been found.

    In virtually every case -- chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles -- the
    United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator
    successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors.

    The Iraq Survey Group, ISG, whose intelligence analysts are managed by Charles
    Duelfer, a former State Department official and deputy chief of the U.N.-led
    arms-inspection teams, has found "hundreds of cases of activities that were
    prohibited" under U.N. Security Council resolutions, a senior administration official
    tells Insight.

    "There is a long list of charges made by the U.S. that have been confirmed, but
    none of this seems to mean anything because the weapons that were unaccounted
    for by the United Nations remain unaccounted for."

    Both Duelfer and his predecessor, David Kay, reported to Congress that the
    evidence they had found on the ground in Iraq showed Saddam's regime was in
    "material violation" of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the last of 17
    resolutions that promised "serious consequences" if Iraq did not make a complete
    disclosure of its weapons programs and dismantle them in a verifiable manner.

    The United States cited Iraq's refusal to comply with these demands as one
    justification for going to war.

    Both Duelfer and Kay found Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and
    safe houses with equipment that was suitable to continuing its prohibited chemical-
    and biological-weapons [BW] programs," the official said. "They found a prison
    laboratory where we suspect they tested biological weapons on human subjects."

    They found equipment for "uranium-enrichment centrifuges" whose only plausible
    use was as part of a clandestine nuclear-weapons program. In all these cases, "Iraqi
    scientists had been told before the war not to declare their activities to the U.N.
    inspectors," the official said.

    But while the president's critics and the media might plausibly hide behind
    ambiguity and a lack of sensational-looking finds for not reporting some
    discoveries, in the case of Saddam's ballistic-missile programs they have no excuse
    for their silence.

    "Where were the missiles? We found them," another senior administration official
    told Insight.

    "Saddam Hussein's prohibited missile programs are as close to a slam dunk as you
    will ever find for violating United Nations resolutions," the first official said. Both
    senior administration officials spoke to Insight on condition that neither their name
    nor their agency be identified, but their accounts of what the United States has
    found in Iraq coincided in every major area.

    When former weapons inspector Kay reported to Congress in January that the
    United States had found "no stockpiles" of forbidden weapons in Iraq, his
    conclusions made front-page news. But when he detailed what the ISG had found
    in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence last
    October, few took notice.

    Among Kay's revelations, which officials tell Insight have been amplified in
    subsequent inspections in recent weeks:

    A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of
    BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections
    were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam
    interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a
    biological-weapons program?

    "Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were
    found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We
    thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has
    been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"

    New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean
    hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not
    declared to the United Nations.

    A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at
    an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one
    of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350
    kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."

    "Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for
    prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least
    until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they
    were told to conceal from the U.N."

    "Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges
    up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the
    150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a
    1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets
    throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and
    Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."

    In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other
    evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts
    between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to
    1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong --
    300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military
    equipment," Kay reported.

    In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found
    evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical-
    and biological-warfare agents.

    The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail
    gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That
    came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared
    nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency
    spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a
    clandestine nuclear-weapons program."

    In taking apart Iraq's clandestine procurement network, Duelfer said his
    investigators had discovered that "the primary source of illicit financing for this
    system was oil smuggling conducted through government-to-government
    protocols negotiated with neighboring countries [and] from kickback payments
    made on contracts set up through the U.N. oil-for-food program."

    What the president's critics and the media widely have portrayed as the most
    dramatic failure of the U.S. case against Saddam has been the claimed failure to find
    "stockpiles" of chemical and biological weapons. But in a June 2003 Washington Post
    op-ed, former chief U.N. weapons inspector Rolf Ekeus called such criticism "a
    distortion and a trivialization of a major threat to international peace and security."

    The October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on Iraqi Weapons of Mass
    Destruction concluded that Saddam "probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons
    [MT] and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW [chemical warfare] agents -- much of
    it added in the last year."

    That assessment was based, in part, on conclusions contained in the final report
    from U.N. weapons inspectors in 1999, which highlighted discrepancies in what the
    Iraqis reported to the United Nations and the amount of precursor chemicals U.N.
    arms inspectors could document Iraq had imported but for which it no longer
    could account.

    Until now, Bush's critics say, no stockpiles of CW agents made with those
    precursors have been found. The snap conclusion they draw is that the
    administration "lied" to the American people to create a pretext for invading Iraq.

    But what are "stockpiles" of CW agents supposed to look like? Was anyone
    seriously expecting Saddam to have left behind freshly painted warehouses packed
    with chemical munitions, all neatly laid out in serried rows, with labels written in
    English?

    Or did they think that a captured Saddam would guide U.S. troops to smoking
    vats full of nerve gas in an abandoned factory?

    Stockpiles found

    In fact, as recent evidence made public by a former operations officer for the
    Coalition Provisional Authority's intelligence unit in Iraq shows, some of those
    stockpiles have been found - not all at once, and not all in nice working order --
    but found all the same.

    Douglas Hanson was a U.S. Army cavalry reconnaissance officer for 20 years, and
    a veteran of Gulf War I. He was an atomic demolitions munitions security officer
    and a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer. As a civilian analyst in Iraq
    last summer, he worked for an operations intelligence unit of the CPA in Iraq, and
    later, with the newly formed Ministry of Science and Technology, which was
    responsible for finding new, nonlethal employment for Iraqi WMD scientists.

    In an interview with Insight and in an article he wrote for the online magazine
    AmericanThinker.com, Hanson examines reports from U.S. combat units and public
    information confirming that many of Iraq's CW stockpiles have indeed been found.

    Until now, however, journalists have devoted scant attention to this evidence, in
    part because it contradicts the story line they have been putting forward since the
    U.S.-led inspections began after the war.

    But another reason for the media silence may stem from the seemingly undramatic
    nature of the "finds" Hanson and others have described. The materials that
    constitute Saddam's chemical-weapons "stockpiles" look an awful lot like pesticides,
    which they indeed resemble.

    "Pesticides are the key elements in the chemical-agent arena," Hanson says. "In fact,
    the general pesticide chemical formula (organophosphate) is the 'grandfather' of
    modern-day nerve agents."

    The United Nations was fully aware that Saddam had established his
    chemical-weapons plants under the guise of a permitted civilian chemical-industry
    infrastructure. Plants inspected in the early 1990s as CW production facilities had
    been set up to appear as if they were producing pesticides, or in the case of a giant
    plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.

    When coalition forces entered Iraq, "huge warehouses and caches of 'commercial
    and agricultural' chemicals were seized and painstakingly tested by Army and
    Marine chemical specialists," Hanson writes. "What was surprising was how quickly
    the ISG refuted the findings of our ground forces and how silent they have been
    on the significance of these caches."

    Caches of "commercial and agricultural" chemicals don't match the expectation of
    "stockpiles" of chemical weapons. But, in fact, that is precisely what they are. "At a
    very minimum," Hanson tells Insight, "they were storing the precursors to restart a
    chemical-warfare program very quickly."

    Kay and Duelfer came to a similar conclusion, telling Congress under oath that
    Saddam had built new facilities and stockpiled the materials to relaunch production
    of chemical and biological weapons at a moment's notice. At Karbala, U.S. troops
    stumbled upon 55-gallon drums of pesticides at what appeared to be a very large
    "agricultural supply" area, Hanson says. Some of the drums were stored in a
    "camouflaged bunker complex" that was shown to reporters -- with unpleasant
    results.

    "More than a dozen soldiers, a Knight-Ridder reporter, a CNN cameraman, and
    two Iraqi POWs came down with symptoms consistent with exposure to a nerve
    agent," Hanson says. "But later ISG tests resulted in a proclamation of negative,
    end of story, nothing to see here, etc., and the earlier findings and injuries
    dissolved into nonexistence. Left unexplained is the small matter of the obvious
    pains taken to disguise the cache of ostensibly legitimate pesticides. One wonders
    about the advantage an agricultural-commodities business gains by securing drums
    of pesticide in camouflaged bunkers 6 feet underground. The 'agricultural site' was
    also colocated with a military ammunition dump -- evidently nothing more than a
    coincidence in the eyes of the ISG."

    That wasn't the only significant find by coalition troops of probable CW stockpiles,
    Hanson believes. Near the northern Iraqi town of Bai'ji, where Saddam had built a
    chemical-weapons plant known to the United States from nearly 12 years of
    inspections, elements of the 4th Infantry Division found 55-gallon drums containing
    a substance identified through mass spectrometry analysis as cyclosarin -- a nerve
    agent.

    Nearby were surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles, gas masks and a mobile
    laboratory that could have been used to mix chemicals at the site.

    "Of course, later tests by the experts revealed that these were only the ubiquitous
    pesticides that everybody was turning up," Hanson says. "It seems Iraqi soldiers
    were obsessed with keeping ammo dumps insect-free, according to the reading of
    the evidence now enshrined by the conventional wisdom that 'no WMD stockpiles
    have been discovered.'"

    At Taji -- an Iraqi weapons complex as large as the District of Columbia -- U.S.
    combat units discovered more "pesticides" stockpiled in specially built containers,
    smaller in diameter but much longer than the standard 55-gallon drum.

    Hanson says he still recalls the military sending digital images of the canisters to his
    office, where his boss at the Ministry of Science and Technology translated the
    Arabic-language markings. "They were labeled as pesticides," he says. "Gee, you
    sure have got a lot of pesticides stored in ammo dumps."

    Again, this January, Danish forces found 120-millimeter mortar shells filled with a
    mysterious liquid that initially tested positive for blister agents. But subsequent
    tests by the United States disputed that finding.

    "If it wasn't a chemical agent, what was it?" Hanson asks. "More pesticides?
    Dish-washing detergent? From this old soldier's perspective, I gain nothing from
    putting a liquid in my mortar rounds unless that stuff will do bad things to the
    enemy."

    The discoveries Hanson describes are not dramatic. And that's the problem:
    Finding real stockpiles in grubby ammo dumps doesn't fit the image the media and
    the president's critics carefully have fed to the public of what Iraq's weapons ought
    to look like. A senior administration official who has gone through the intelligence
    reporting from Iraq as well as the earlier reports from U.N. arms inspectors refers
    to another well-documented allegation.

    "The Iraqis admitted they had made 3.9 tons of VX," a powerful nerve gas, but
    claimed they had never weaponized it. The U.N. inspectors "felt they had more.
    But where did it go?" The Iraqis never provided any explanation of what had
    happened to their VX stockpiles.

    What does 3.9 tons of VX look like? "It could fit in one large garage," the official
    says. Assuming, of course, that Saddam would assemble every bit of VX gas his
    scientists had produced at a single site, that still amounts to one large garage in an
    area the size of the state of California.

    Senior administration officials stress that the investigation will continue as
    inspectors comb through millions of pages of documents in Iraq and attempt to
    interview Iraqi weapons scientists who have been trained all their professional lives
    to conceal their activities from the outside world.

    "The conditions under which the ISG is working are not very conducive," one
    official said. "But this president wants the truth to come out. This is not an exercise
    in spinning or censoring."
    [/b][/quote]

  2. #2
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,393
    Every intelligent American knows Iraqi WMDs exist and are hidden somewhere.

    This WMD flap is a liberal smokescreen because it was never stated that WMDs were the only reason to invade (as the media would have one believe). And it's not only about freeing Iraqi's. And it's not only about oil. And it's not only about enforcing UN resolutions. And it's not only about establishing an ally in a region of nutcases. And it's not only about trying to shoot our planes in the no-fly zones.

    It was done for all of the above.

    There was a movie about ancient Egypt that I saw a long time ago. The Pharaohs would have architects and slaves build pyramids. To keep the secrets of the pyramids sacred, the Pharaoh would order a group of his soldiers to kill those builders and architects - no reason given. Then the Pharaoh would send another group of soldiers to kill the first group - again, no reason given. And so on and so on until he was convinced that no person lived to tell the secrets of these structures. Only now, thousands of years later, are scientists learning the secrets of the pyramids.

    Fast forward to present day. Is there anyone reading this that believes Saddam couldn't do the exact same thing regarding his WMD secrets, especially when he was given at least 8 months to do it?

    As payback for all this spin they've orgasmed over for a year, I hope CNN is right there, videotape cranking, when they unearth a sh*tload of WMDs and right before November.

    [i]"I actually knew Saddam had WMDs, before I announced that he didn't!"[/i]

  3. #3
    The sad thing is that the libs actually believe that there isn't any WMD and tat none ever exsisted. Its amazing that even when its pointed out that he has used them on his own people in the past they scoff and say Bush is lying. When you point out that Clinton (and John Kerry) said the same things they say Bush is a liar. He had the whole world fooled. Its a conspiracy! They talk about Bushs father in some sort of nuveaux conspiracy to controll the world. Is Bush a liar or are the libs just too naieve to believe the truth?

  4. #4
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,281
    I still can't believe the Jordan terrorist plot and arrests is getting ZERO coverage from the "mainstream" media.

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Again, we all fall prey to the temptation of believing that liberal argument is generated from principle or that most people can be swayed by such things as facts, reason and logic. No, there is simply no driving force more powerful in most Democrats' minds than the blind belief in their own goodness and Bush's badness. This religious set of beliefs permeates throughout every opinion that they have. Republicans are stupid, callous, greedy, religious, and cold. Democrats are altruistic, caring, elightened and diplomatic. That's the way it is and nothing anyone ever says or does will change that....

    It wouldn't matter if we discovered a videotape of Saddam painstakingly showing Osama Bin Laden how to weaponize VX and then selling him thousands of gallons of it. It wouldn't matter if we captured OBL tomorrow, and found tons of Iraqi WMD tomorrow as well. It wouldn't have mattered if we had lost only 50 soldiers, not 500+. NOTHING is more important to Democrats than Bush losing or Bush being blamed for all of the world's problems. Actually solving problems is secondary to the goal of minimizing Bush. Gas prices are higher and Halliburton employees are being kidnapped and killed, yet this war is about "oil" and "profiteering."

    The Jordan terror story is a huge deal Moses. We'll see...I am skeptical about it. Perhaps Jordan wants to show America how seriously they are taking terror and who knows if this threat is/was as credible as they say. Either way, they are turning in the right direction.

    No, the biggest story is the Oil for Food program that was raped and plundered by Saddam, Kofi and our European 'allies.' You know, those same allies who took principled stands against the war. That is all the proof anyone ever needs about the real nature of the UN.

  6. #6
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jet Moses[/i]@Apr 27 2004, 10:08 AM
    [b] I still can't believe the Jordan terrorist plot and arrests is getting ZERO coverage from the "mainstream" media. [/b][/quote]
    Dude, I'm with you...I originally posted this story almost two weeks ago: [url=http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=20947]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/index.ph...=ST&f=7&t=20947[/url] and the left leaning media is just now slightly touching on it.

    Twice as funny is the way they are almost totally ignoring the corrupt food-for-oil scandal at the UN now being investigated by Paul Volker...complete joke!

    Of course they cover Sunday's "March for Death" full bore....

  7. #7
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,393
    Scenario:

    Discovered a videotape of Saddam painstakingly showing Osama Bin Laden how to weaponize VX and then selling him thousands of gallons of it.


    Liberal response:

    Dubya had Mel Gibson stage a phoney videotape with lookalikes and Hollywood style special effects. Or Cheney ordered Haliburton to smuggle in American WMDs to save face.


    There's one problem with their little tactics: no matter how hard they try, they can't make a honest man into a liar.

  8. #8
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    1,753
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb[/i]@Apr 27 2004, 03:42 PM
    [b] Scenario:

    Discovered a videotape of Saddam painstakingly showing Osama Bin Laden how to weaponize VX and then selling him thousands of gallons of it.


    Liberal response:

    Dubya had Mel Gibson stage a phoney videotape with lookalikes and Hollywood style special effects. Or Cheney ordered Haliburton to smuggle in American WMDs to save face.


    There's one problem with their little tactics: no matter how hard they try, they can't make a honest man into a liar. [/b][/quote]
    VX is some scary stuff dude.

  9. #9
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,281
    I didn't want to start a new thread so I put this here:

    Kerry has a record on Latin America a substantial one. You will recall the 1980s, and that decade's fierce debates over Central America policy. At the heart of these debates was Nicaragua: the Sandinistas, Castro, and the Soviet Union versus the Contras and the United States (or rather, not all of the United States: the Reagan administration, in particular). Kerry was an important player in all this. He was part of a group derided by Republicans as "'Dear Comandante' Democrats," for they would address letters to Daniel Ortega, the Sandinista No. 1, "Dear Comandante." ("But that's his title," they would plead, not unreasonably.) This group included such House members as Mike Barnes and Pete Kostmayer, and such senators as Chris Dodd and Tom Harkin and John Kerry.

    Only months after he was sworn in, Kerry joined Harkin on an infamous trip to Managua, to meet with Comandante Ortega. This was April 1985. The trip, according to an article in Policy Review magazine, was arranged by the Institute for Policy Studies, a hard-Left group. IPS was one of several such groups around Kerry back then. The trip, moreover, occurred a few days before a key vote in Congress on Contra aid the bill proposed to send $14 million in humanitarian assistance to those anti-Communist rebels.

    Said Kerry, "Senator Harkin and I are going to Nicaragua as Vietnam-era veterans who are alarmed that the Reagan administration is repeating the mistakes we made in Vietnam. Our foreign policy should represent the democratic values that have made our country great, not subvert those values by funding terrorism to overthrow governments of other countries." Note that, certainly by implication, the senator characterized the Contra resistance as "terrorism." In addition, "President Reagan has probably come closer to trying to interpret Vietnam in a positive way than either Presidents Ford or Carter. But this also lends itself to a revisionism about Vietnam that makes it easier for us to repeat our mistakes unwittingly."

    JOHN KERRY IS A LOOOOOOOOOOOSER!

  10. #10
    [quote][b]Again, we all fall prey to the temptation of believing that liberal argument is generated from principle or that most people can be swayed by such things as facts, reason and logic. No, there is simply no driving force more powerful in most Democrats' minds than the blind belief in their own goodness and Bush's badness. This religious set of beliefs permeates throughout every opinion that they have. Republicans are stupid, callous, greedy, religious, and cold. Democrats are altruistic, caring, elightened and diplomatic. That's the way it is and nothing anyone ever says or does will change that....
    [/b][/quote]

    And with a statement like that, anyone is supposed to think YOU have an open mind? LOL, thats a joke. Turn every statement you made around, and it could apply just as accurately to your beloved Republicans. THAT is why the two party system sucks ass. No one wants to actually get anything constructive done, they just want to fcuk the other party as hard as they can........not a way to run a nation.

    You could care less what type of person a Liberal Democrat is, he is simply the enemy and anything he stats for must be wrong. And of course, your democratic counterpart feels exactly the opposite way. Sad.

    The Mainstream Network Television Media IS biased towards the liberal anti-war agenda, although there are still plenty of Right wingers to be found on Cable TV.

    Of course, 99% of Radio Media goes the other way, being completely pro-war, anti-liberal, right wing dominated.

    Newspapers tend to break down almost 50/50, with each major city having at least one right wing and one left wing paper.

    In my mind, finding Iraqi WMD IS a good thing (well, good that we found them, not so good that they exist because who knows where some of them may have ended up....). If PROOF (not rumor or speculation, but PROOF) can be shown, then it SHOULD be shown, to every American with a TV. The same way that IF American soldiers are torturing prisoners, THAT should be made known to the American public.

    But the Media will NEVER be fully equal...it will always be broken down like I stated above, and that is both sad and wrong, but it is what it is.

  11. #11
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jet Moses[/i]@May 4 2004, 10:15 PM
    [b]
    JOHN KERRY IS A LOOOOOOOOOOOSER! [/b][/quote]
    [img]http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/picturejokes/16041.jpg[/img]

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    dunkirk, ny
    Posts
    3,243
    funny how no one mentions that bush has a record in the states...drunk driving and cocaine usage...

    but thats ok, he is god and god never did any harm...
    wait...didn't he rape a married woman and impregnate her with a bastard child?

  13. #13
    [quote][i]Originally posted by yourworstmemory[/i]@May 5 2004, 02:54 PM
    [b] wait...didn't he rape a married woman and impregnate her with a bastard child? [/b][/quote]
    No you're thinking of the upstanding Kennedy family :rolleyes:

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    dunkirk, ny
    Posts
    3,243
    that was actually pretty funny...the kennedy's...now that would be a tv show i would watch :)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us