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Thread: No more Club Ed

  1. #21
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFan1+Apr 30 2004, 11:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFan1 @ Apr 30 2004, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray Ray19[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:42 AM
    [b]

    So the Patritos never practice in "shells?"

    Spin that one, jackass. [/b][/quote]
    What are Patritos
    some new Super Bowl snack? [/b][/quote]
    That&#39;s what Walt Coleman and his crew are called.

  2. #22
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Boozer76[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:45 AM
    [b] No, that&#39;s just Tom Brady&#39;s new phrase for giving the ol&#39; reach around. "Hey Christian Fauria, you ready for your Patritos today" :P [/b][/quote]
    Not that I am against gay people, but I am a little disturbed by all the gay fantasies you male Jets fan think about.

  3. #23
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:12 AM
    [b] But it seems most Jets fans (at least here on JI) think Herm is a loser, no exceptions. The most common comments are that he has no talent as a coach, is NOT a good motivator, is weak on the team and players, and more..more...more...negativite views. [/b][/quote]
    I dont know if most Jets fans feel the way you describe (I think its a vocal minority that makes it sound like that).

    The biggest knocks have always been clock management and too-easy practices. You forget we went through Pete Carroll, who was another bright young coach with a penchant for BBQs, pick-up basketball games, and practices without pads. Its not fair to draw comparisions between the two men, but hey, lifes not fair.

    When the team consistantly starts off slow, the inevitable fingerpointing goes to easy training camps. Maybe there&#39;s no direct correlation, but thats the easiest place to start looking. If the team comes out like gangbusters this September, then I think a lot of the criticism goes away.

    Saying he has no talent - well, he&#39;s new to being a head coach. That&#39;s what you get. The Xs and Os and clock management should come around, especially if he surrounds himself with the right people.

    I havent heard a lot of people say he&#39;s not a good motivator. I think in general terms, he can be a very motivating speaker. But the bottom line, right or wrong, is that you&#39;re only as good a motivator as your record shows. Things like certain defensive linemen sleeping in the lockerroom, while not directly Herm&#39;s fault, reflect unfortunately on the coaching staff. I think that these things will go away as well, with a younger, hungrier team. At least I hope they do.

  4. #24
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 03:12 PM
    [b] One last note:

    It simply AMAZES me the difference in opinion on HERM EDWARDS between Jets fans and fans of other teams in other cities.

    Other Cities (including my home of D.C/NOVA) think Herm is the shiznit, a total master of motivation and not too shabby a coach either. They acknowledge he has some issues (Clock) but think his strengths far outweight his weaknesses. Often I have heard jealously in local Sportstalk that THEIR Coach is not like Herm (at least till Gibbs got here).

    But it seems most Jets fans (at least here on JI) think Herm is a loser, no exceptions. The most common comments are that he has no talent as a coach, is NOT a good motivator, is weak on the team and players, and more..more...more...negativite views.

    I find this to be a very interesting Dichotomy. [/b][/quote]
    You make some very interesting points Warfish and it&#39;s very accurate what you are saying.

    I have buddies that are Eagles fans that hate Andy Reid. They call him all kinds of names, loser and fatso being two of them and they praise Edwards.

    I think that nobody really deep down thinks that Edwards is a horrible coach. That&#39;s just unfair. The Jets fans though, most of them have a bitter taste from last season and want this team deperately to win a championship and alot of Jets fans do not believe in their heart of hearts that Edwards can be a championship head coach. That remains to be seen and they might be right.

    Outside of Weeb Ewbank, Bill Parcells is the greatest coach in Jets history and that&#39;s who Edwards is unfortunately being compared to and we as Jet fans watch Belichick leave here and become a hall of fame head coach in New England.

    I think that overall, Herman Edwards is a good young head coach with strong character and good qualities but like most young head coaches, He has flaws. Let&#39;s see if he can get better like Beliichick and others have. It&#39;s easy to like the guy and root for him, He&#39;s a tremendous person.

    You look at your own differently than others from the outside do.

    It&#39;s like the married guy or single guy in a relationship sees all of his partners flaws. But everyone outside the relationship thinks that your partner is hot and would love to be with her.

    It&#39;s the grass is greener on the other side mentality that Jets fans will always have until we win the big one again.

  5. #25
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFan1+Apr 30 2004, 11:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFan1 @ Apr 30 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Boozer76[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:45 AM
    [b] No, that&#39;s just Tom Brady&#39;s new phrase for giving the ol&#39; reach around. "Hey Christian Fauria, you ready for your Patritos today" :P [/b][/quote]
    Not that I am against gay people, but I am a little disturbed by all the gay fantasies you male Jets fan think about. [/b][/quote]
    Nah, no fantasies, just alot of skepticism of any grown man who proudly carries a "manbag".

  6. #26
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jetaholic[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:30 AM
    [b] Hey, I see nothing wrong with the BBQ&#39;s, as long as it&#39;s not during practice time.

    Nothing wrong in running practice time hard, all out in full pads and at the end of the day you can sit back and enjoy a BBQ with your fellow teammates.

    If anything that is really a great idea. think about it. This is how you build a close-knit team. This is how you build comraderie. This is how you make 52 individuals think and work as one...social events.

    At the same time, I don&#39;t like the idea of giving veterans afternoons off or practicing with no pads or not going full speed. I can see some practices like that because of weather or what no but not all the time.

    Taking a veteran out of practice means that you are taking the teacher out of the classroom. Veterans are already familiar with the program and are teaching the newbies (FA&#39;s or rookies) the ropes. They need to be there....

    About practicing in pads; if you can play a regular season without pads then you can practice without pads. But until then, put them on and go full speed. Practice is not just to learn the routes and assignments, but also to get acclimated with the speed of the game and roughness of the game. This is the main reason for the poor tackling in the beginning of the year that we have been seeing for the last three years. [/b][/quote]

    Very well said holic&#33;

  7. #27
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    I hope Henderson gets on the Defense all off-season and Edwards sticks to motivating players and lets Henderson run the D his own way. I like the quotes about Henderson from Newsday today:

    "The voice is like a drill sergeant’s. It’s deep and it commands attention. He can startle the unsuspecting veteran or scare the rookie. And Henderson has not waited to use it. [b]On the first day of the Jets Organized Team Activities (OTAs), Henderson got after his players for not running hard.

    “The coaches create the attitude,” Henderson says. “If I’m on your butt every day about doing something right, you are going to do it the right way. No matter how you like me, you are going to do it the right way.”[/b]

  8. #28
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    yjf, warfish....excellent posts. balanced perspectives, both.

    i get so tired of hearing about "Club Ed" and barbeques....while Edwards certainly needs to tweek his approach to camp a bit so that we come out of the gates better, the Jets have been a good late season team, and Herm deserves a lot of credit for that. people forget that only 5 or 6 years ago, WE were the perennial late season chokers, like the Dolphins are now.

  9. #29
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:06 AM
    [b]Just as food for thought guys, remember that being too HARD can be just as detrimental as being too SOFT:

    Two Examples: Coach Groh burned the Jets out so bad they had nothing left by the end of that season, a season we should have been deep in the playoffs (based on injury/health and talent).

    Coach Shottenheimer routinely burned his teams out (in his post-Chiefs coaching life). Even with very talented teams (like the Deadskins Roster he had) they simply underperformed and looked tired all the time.

    Off-Season Work like this, and Camp/Pre-Season need to be hard and difficult, but not so much that you get injured players, tired players (for Game 1) or plain old worn out players (in the seasons last 1/4).

    So NO TO BBQ, but NO TO the GULAG as well&#33;[/b][/quote]
    What both you and Especially YJF miss when you compare Hermie
    with other Coaches is the other Coaches like Tuna started 3-13
    then 9-7,10-6 14-4 and a super bowl winner in his 4th year..Herm
    is going in the wrong direction don&#39;t ya think?? <_< :rolleyes:

  10. #30
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 12:51 PM
    [b] Herm is going in the wrong direction don&#39;t ya think?? [/b][/quote]

    savage,

    You are being far too critical. How many coaches in the NFL lead their team to the playoffs 2 out of their 1st 3 seasons?

  11. #31
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+Apr 30 2004, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ Apr 30 2004, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:06 AM
    [b]Just as food for thought guys, remember that being too HARD can be just as detrimental as being too SOFT:

    Two Examples: Coach Groh burned the Jets out so bad they had nothing left by the end of that season, a season we should have been deep in the playoffs (based on injury/health and talent).

    Coach Shottenheimer routinely burned his teams out (in his post-Chiefs coaching life). Even with very talented teams (like the Deadskins Roster he had) they simply underperformed and looked tired all the time.

    Off-Season Work like this, and Camp/Pre-Season need to be hard and difficult, but not so much that you get injured players, tired players (for Game 1) or plain old worn out players (in the seasons last 1/4).

    So NO TO BBQ, but NO TO the GULAG as well&#33;[/b][/quote]
    What both you and Especially YJF miss when you compare Hermie
    with other Coaches is the other Coaches like Tuna started 3-13
    then 9-7,10-6 14-4 and a super bowl winner in his 4th year..Herm
    is going in the wrong direction don&#39;t ya think?? <_< :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
    You are using one example. I could come up with 20 other examples and we can go back and forth on this issue.

    What was Belichick&#39;s record his first four years as a head coach and did he go "backwards".

    We have been down this road before and have wasted so much time arguing about this.

    Edwards was 10-6 in year one. He lost a playoff game on the road. So 2001, He was 10-7.

    In year two, He started off at 2 and 5. The Jets finished the year 7 and 2 to win the division and make the playoffs.

    The Jets regular season record was 9-7. They beat Indy 41-0 to advance to The 2nd round of the playoffs and then lost to The AFC Champs in Oakland.
    So 2002, Edwards was 10-7.

    In year three, The Jets lost alot of talent including Evans suspension. Pennington and John Abraham&#39;s injuries coupled with several others. The Jets started out 0 and 4, Went 6 and 6 the rest of the way.
    So 2003, Edwards was 6-10

    That&#39;s the first year that The Jets went "backwards" and it was for several legitimate reasons.

    The facts are the facts. They won 10 games in 2001, 10 games in 2002 and 6 in 2003.

  12. #32
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+Apr 30 2004, 12:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ Apr 30 2004, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--savage69[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 12:51 PM
    [b] Herm is going in the wrong direction don&#39;t ya think?? [/b][/quote]

    savage,

    You are being far too critical. How many coaches in the NFL lead their team to the playoffs 2 out of their 1st 3 seasons?[/b][/quote]
    NOT 2 MENSHUN AN AfCEAST TITL JaCK_ASS PASTY-FAN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GO BACK OVUR 2 PATSFAG..COM&#33; SKUMBAG&#33;&#33; U SUK&#33;

  13. #33
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane+Apr 30 2004, 01:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (TomShane @ Apr 30 2004, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -PatsFanTX@Apr 30 2004, 12:56 PM
    [b]<!--QuoteBegin--savage69[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 12:51 PM
    [b] Herm is going in the wrong direction don&#39;t ya think?? [/b][/quote]

    savage,

    You are being far too critical. How many coaches in the NFL lead their team to the playoffs 2 out of their 1st 3 seasons?[/b][/quote]
    NOT 2 MENSHUN AN AfCEAST TITL JaCK_ASS PASTY-FAN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GO BACK OVUR 2 PATSFAG..COM&#33; SKUMBAG&#33;&#33; U SUK&#33; [/b][/quote]
    :lol:

  14. #34
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 01:04 PM
    [b]
    NOT 2 MENSHUN AN AfCEAST TITL JaCK_ASS PASTY-FAN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GO BACK OVUR 2 PATSFAG..COM&#33; SKUMBAG&#33;&#33; U SUK&#33; [/b][/quote]


    That&#39;s too funny. :lol: :lol: :lol:

  15. #35
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 01:03 PM
    [b]
    The Jets regular season record was 9-7. They beat Indy 41-0 to advance to The 2nd round of the playoffs and then lost to The AFC Champs in Oakland.
    So 2002, Edwards was 10-7.

    [/b][/quote]
    YJF - not to nit-pick, but the Jets were 10-8 in 2002, not 10-7.

    If you are going to add the Indy playoff win, you cannot exclude the Oakland playoff loss, which was the 8th loss of the season.


    This is the bottom line: Herm has been the coach for three full seasons. The Jets&#39; record during those seasons is 25-23.

    The Jets&#39; record in the three previous seasons was 29-19.

    Herm took over a 9-7 team and got them to 10-6. Now, they are 6-10.

    Sorry, criticisms of Herm&#39;s ability to coach and his production so far are legitimate. That said, he has made the playoffs twice. That fact doesn&#39;t prove that he&#39;s great, but it cannot be ignored completely. Also, the trend of Herm&#39;s team is going the wrong way - each year&#39;s record has been worse than the first year&#39;s.

    The jury is simply still out on Herm. There is not yet enough data available with which to analyze and conclude either way...all we have are gut feelings and hopes at this point....Personally, I think he desrves two more years to show us what he&#39;s made of.

  16. #36
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 11:12 AM
    [b] One last note:

    It simply AMAZES me the difference in opinion on HERM EDWARDS between Jets fans and fans of other teams in other cities.

    Other Cities (including my home of D.C/NOVA) think Herm is the shiznit, a total master of motivation and not too shabby a coach either. They acknowledge he has some issues (Clock) but think his strengths far outweight his weaknesses. Often I have heard jealously in local Sportstalk that THEIR Coach is not like Herm (at least till Gibbs got here).

    But it seems most Jets fans (at least here on JI) think Herm is a loser, no exceptions. The most common comments are that he has no talent as a coach, is NOT a good motivator, is weak on the team and players, and more..more...more...negativite views.

    I find this to be a very interesting Dichotomy. [/b][/quote]
    here in tampa, to my surprise, it seems that herm is regarded as a complete nobody. almost like , "remember that guy who was the d backs coach back in 99....."


    i think this business about him being so well respected out of ny is a homer fantasy mixed in with political correctness

  17. #37
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 01:03 PM
    [b]What was Belichick&#39;s record his first four years as a head coach and did he go "backwards".

    [/b][/quote]
    With the Browns?? He took over a 3-13 and went 6-10 7-9 7-9
    11-5 then went 5-11 and was canned&#33;&#33; NE he went 5-11 11-5
    and SB then 9-7 14-2 and SB&#33;&#33; So I expect Hermie 11-5 next year
    and at least the AFC Championship game&#33;&#33; ;) :lol: I won&#39;t bother
    saying what Fox and Lewis have done taking over bad teams I think
    you know... :rolleyes:

  18. #38
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 02:20 PM
    [b] I won&#39;t bother
    saying what Fox and Lewis have done taking over bad teams I think
    you know... :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
    i think the key is "taking over bad teams." most of the coaches you cite as examples of improving each year of their tenure did just that -- took over bad teams. herm on the other hand, took over a team just a couple of years removed from afc championship game. in 1999 they were considered a super bowl favorite until vinny went down. in 2000 they were an elite team until groh lost them (partly due to his brutal practices, in fact). so herm inherited a veteran, "win now" type team...there would have been no excuse for a year or two of losing before they got it together...and to his credit, they made the playoffs immediately.

    this is not to justify the front office&#39;s failure to realize that after 2002 it was time to cut some of those veterans and revamp the team. they didn&#39;t do that, and the Jets lost in 2003...and I&#39;ll agree that Herm must bear some of the blame for that. SOME. but to condemn him because he DIDN&#39;T lose his first two years here (if his first two years had been 3 and 5 win seasons, then last year would have been an improvement) isn&#39;t fair.

    as was said in some earlier posts, he&#39;s neither proven that he&#39;s great, nor proven that he&#39;s terrible. IMO, we&#39;ll know in a couple of years.

  19. #39
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by gaffneycatch[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 02:42 PM
    [b]the Jets lost in 2003...and I&#39;ll agree that Herm must bear some of the blame for that. SOME. but to condemn him because he DIDN&#39;T lose his first two years here (if his first two years had been 3 and 5 win seasons, then last year would have been an improvement) isn&#39;t fair.

    as was said in some earlier posts, he&#39;s neither proven that he&#39;s great, nor proven that he&#39;s terrible. IMO, we&#39;ll know in a couple of years.[/b][/quote]
    He didn&#39;t lose because he was left a Good Team like Kotite was
    with Philly and Caroll was in New England... Pete Caroll made the
    Playoff&#39;s his first 2 years also..Going 10-6 and 9-7 sound familiar?
    And had a better 3 year record than Herm but went 8-8 in his third
    year and was Canned&#33; Do I hear the Props for Old Pete?? Look if
    Herm turns the Team around fine&#33;&#33; But I go more on what is Fact and
    proved to be True than, Rah Rah Herm&#39;s our Man if he can&#39;t do it nobody
    can... :rolleyes:

  20. #40
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@Apr 30 2004, 02:59 PM
    [b] Do I hear the Props for Old Pete?? Look if
    Herm turns the Team around fine&#33;&#33; But I go more on what is Fact and
    proved to be True than, Rah Rah Herm&#39;s our Man if he can&#39;t do it nobody
    can... :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
    fair enough...

    i don&#39;t advocate blind loyalty to herm either...i just think he&#39;s shown some good things, shown some bad, and deserves a couple of more years. i&#39;ve never been an advocate of pulling the plug quickly on a coach who has a good history but a bad year or two.

    and, for that matter, i&#39;ll give Old Pete some props....I think he was a decent NFL coach, and was in the process of turning into a good one. i think he got canned because Tuna was available, and Kraft didn&#39;t want to pass on that opportunity. so Pete ended up really coming into his own in the college ranks...but I don&#39;t think, based purely on W-L performance (and i admit, i didn&#39;t follow the rest of the situation up there closely at the time), he deserved to get fired when he did.

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