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Thread: In grudging praise of Bradway

  1. #41
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    and for the record, Barrett's cap figure for '05 is 2.75 mil. Not sure where you're getting your number from.

    [quote][b]David Barrett
    2004 $535,000 cap figure: $1,285,000
    2005 $1,000,000 + $1,000,000 roster bonus
    2006 $2,055,000 + $1,000,000 roster bonus
    2007 $3,600,000
    2008 $3,600,000
    2009 $3,710,000

    total salary: 6 year, $14.5mil
    signing bonus: $4.5 mil
    Roster bonus: $2 mil
    total contract, 6 year, $21mil

    Giving cap numbers of....

    David Barrett
    2004: $1,285,000
    2005: $2,750,000 or $3,750,000 to release
    2006: $3,805,000 or $3,000,000 to release
    2007: $4,350,000 or $2,250,000 to release
    2008: $4,350,000 or $1,500,000 to release
    2009: $4,460,000 or $750,000 to release. [/b][/quote]

    this

    [quote][b]His total cap hit for 2005 if he is kept is roughly 4.75M.[/b][/quote]

    Is 2 mil to high.

  2. #42
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    I hope Barrett plays well. He obviously flashed some ability while playing behind absolutely no pass rush in Arizona. I'm excited to see what he brings to the table. All this talk is a moot point really, the Jets didn't sign this guy to cut him after one season. If he does bad, he does bad, but he'll be back. Hell, Aaron Beasley lasted two years here.

  3. #43
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by RichardSeymour[/i]@May 1 2004, 11:03 PM
    [b]you're arguing that cutting a guy after one year is no problem because the 3.75 mil dead money hit is the equivilant of the ~3 mil budgeted for his salary....

    Would it be OK if the numbers were 5 mil each? 8 mil? 10 mil?[/b][/quote]
    Relax there, Ego Joe.

    Is it a long term problem? [b]No[/b].

    Are you worse off for cutting him? [b]No[/b], not if he stinks.

    Do you have to cut guys to deal with the cap hit? [b]No![/b]

    Yes, for the 3rd time, you'd have made a mistake to the degree that he fails to live up the money.

    But it does not make you worse off to cut him. It is simply an admission of a bad signing. Yes, you take a hit, which is lessened by the salary relief, but it's still dead money. Yes, dead money is bad.

    But you get out from under the whole deal and you can replace him with a low level FA on the '05 roster.

    It's very manageable. This would not be the case of his bonus was in the Lava Coles area. That would be a huge penalty and a cap crusher.

    You are over-blowing the deal and the negative impact of an underperforming Barrett. Plain and simple.

    I do not dispute the details of the contract. You have them correct.

  4. #44
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    I Assume you are correct.

    I averaged out the 14.5 over six, but they back loaded it.

    You are correct at those numbers, they would need to expand the budget if they were to cut him next year.

    However, why would they cut him at that cap number anyway? He would really have to suck.

    Still, you don't get hammered.

    I was under the impression that they would have a hard time cutting him later. It would seem that he becomes very cuttable later in the deal.

  5. #45
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by RichardSeymour[/i]@May 1 2004, 07:57 PM
    [b] At this point, anyone calling the Pats old doesn't know what they're talking about.

    The Pats could easilly field a starting offense with everyone under 30, and in fact as long as Dillon stays 29, they will do so consistantly.

    On defense, the DL is younger than the Jets DL overall, the LB corps is fairly old, but 1) there are some nice young guys such as Colvin and TBC and 2) BB *wants* a veteran LB corps.

    The secondary right now is balanced between youth and age. [/b][/quote]
    Gee, that's a pretty RETARDED statement.

    Yeah, EVERY damn team can field a starting team under 30, but is that the best team on the field?

    Don't sit there and try to spin it either, the best players on the Patriots are certainly NOT the guys under 30, there is a good mix of both. It REMAINS to be seen if the influx of youth the last couple of years will make up the core of your team, for now, they are complimentary players, they are certainly NOT the core of your team.

    But we'll find out soon enough because the Pats have lost key players, and the core of their team continues to age!

  6. #46
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by The Troll[/i]@May 1 2004, 10:18 PM
    [b] I hope Barrett plays well. He obviously flashed some ability while playing behind absolutely no pass rush in Arizona. I'm excited to see what he brings to the table. All this talk is a moot point really, the Jets didn't sign this guy to cut him after one season. If he does bad, he does bad, but he'll be back. Hell, Aaron Beasley lasted two years here. [/b][/quote]
    I agree.

    My only point of contention is that some Jets fans continue to characterize this as a "1 year audition" or to say that there's an easy out to the contract. It isn't, and there isn't.

  7. #47
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Ray Ray19+May 1 2004, 10:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Ray Ray19 @ May 1 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--RichardSeymour[/i]@May 1 2004, 07:57 PM
    [b] At this point, anyone calling the Pats old doesn&#39;t know what they&#39;re talking about.

    The Pats could easilly field a starting offense with everyone under 30, and in fact as long as Dillon stays 29, they will do so consistantly.

    On defense, the DL is younger than the Jets DL overall, the LB corps is fairly old, but 1) there are some nice young guys such as Colvin and TBC and 2) BB *wants* a veteran LB corps.

    The secondary right now is balanced between youth and age. [/b][/quote]
    Gee, that&#39;s a pretty RETARDED statement.

    Yeah, EVERY damn team can field a starting team under 30, but is that the best team on the field?

    Don&#39;t sit there and try to spin it either, the best players on the Patriots are certainly NOT the guys under 30, there is a good mix of both. It REMAINS to be seen if the influx of youth the last couple of years will make up the core of your team, for now, they are complimentary players, they are certainly NOT the core of your team.

    But we&#39;ll find out soon enough because the Pats have lost key players, and the core of their team continues to age&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Uh, all five members of our starting O-line, and actually all of their backups.

    Deion Branch, David Givens, and Bethel Johnson. Branch and Givens were the SB starters IIRC.

    Dan Graham.

    Tom Brady.

    The only guys over 30 are Fauria (with Graham and now Watson to replace him), Brown (who was 3rd WR at times last year) and Patten (who didn&#39;t play for most of last year.

    The "core" of the Pats team is VERY young on offense.

  8. #48
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:42 PM
    [b] The Jets under Bradway, finally had some cap room to make moves this offseason.

    Since 2001, The largest signing bonus that The Jets doled out for a free agent was Donnie Abraham. That was like 3 million.

    The Jets had spent their time signing bargain basement players like Josh Evans, Dave Szott, Matthew Hatchette, Donnie Abraham, Aaron Beasley, Doug Brien, Damien Robinson, Tyrone Carter,Brent Smith, Steve White etc etc etc

    They just didn&#39;t have the money to go after anyone they wanted on a premium level or keep anybody.

    So, This offseason. They had the money to play with and were able to finally get rid of dead wood from a previous regime. They couldn&#39;t in years passed.
    [/b][/quote]
    Didn&#39;t we hand out like &#036;30M in combined bonuses for Martin/Chrebet/Robertson? Two guys on the wrong side of their prime & one guy who&#39;d never played yet. Meanwhile, we lost Coles & Thomas to Wash & have 4 unsigned starters in Pennington, Ellis, DAbraham, and McKenzie.

    I give Bradway high marks for the draft & a good off-season so far. But we&#39;ll likely lose a couple starters with talent that doesn&#39;t exactly grow on trees.

    Yeah, Tuna screwed us up cap-wise. But Tuna didn&#39;t eat up &#036;5-6M/year through &#39;08 in cap charges on players who don&#39;t rank in the top 15-20 at their position.

    I know Martin got 1300 yards last year. But with his cap #, that is the bare MINIMUM he should get with 325 carries. We knew after &#39;00 that Chrebet, despite being a fan favorite, was no #1 WR & shouldn&#39;t have received a ridiculous signing bonus like that. D-Rob is the only one I&#39;ll give TB a pass on. He was thought to be one of the few sure-things in a sadly thin draft. You just take a chance on a guy like that and he may yet turn into that player; not too many rookie DT&#39;s go to the pro-bowl anyway - least of all with half a dozen slowpokes around him on D.

    We went 8-4 or whatever with a practice-squad WR at QB; NE was without their defensive captain & was decimated with more injuries I&#39;ve ever seen & still went 17-2; Carolina almost won a superbowl with two pro-bowlers (same as us), Jake Delhomme at QB, & a 2nd-year HC.

    Excuses are for losers.

  9. #49
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Sperm Edwards+May 1 2004, 10:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Sperm Edwards @ May 1 2004, 10:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:42 PM
    [b] The Jets under Bradway, finally had some cap room to make moves this offseason.

    Since 2001, The largest signing bonus that The Jets doled out for a free agent was Donnie Abraham. That was like 3 million.

    The Jets had spent their time signing bargain basement players like Josh Evans, Dave Szott, Matthew Hatchette, Donnie Abraham, Aaron Beasley, Doug Brien, Damien Robinson, Tyrone Carter,Brent Smith, Steve White etc etc etc

    They just didn&#39;t have the money to go after anyone they wanted on a premium level or keep anybody.

    So, This offseason. They had the money to play with and were able to finally get rid of dead wood from a previous regime. They couldn&#39;t in years passed.
    [/b][/quote]
    Didn&#39;t we hand out like &#036;30M in combined bonuses for Martin/Chrebet/Robertson? Two guys on the wrong side of their prime & one guy who&#39;d never played yet. Meanwhile, we lost Coles & Thomas to Wash & have 4 unsigned starters in Pennington, Ellis, DAbraham, and McKenzie.

    I give Bradway high marks for the draft & a good off-season so far. But we&#39;ll likely lose a couple starters with talent that doesn&#39;t exactly grow on trees.

    Yeah, Tuna screwed us up cap-wise. But Tuna didn&#39;t eat up &#036;5-6M/year through &#39;08 in cap charges on players who don&#39;t rank in the top 15-20 at their position.

    I know Martin got 1300 yards last year. But with his cap #, that is the bare MINIMUM he should get with 325 carries. We knew after &#39;00 that Chrebet, despite being a fan favorite, was no #1 WR & shouldn&#39;t have received a ridiculous signing bonus like that. D-Rob is the only one I&#39;ll give TB a pass on. He was thought to be one of the few sure-things in a sadly thin draft. You just take a chance on a guy like that and he may yet turn into that player; not too many rookie DT&#39;s go to the pro-bowl anyway - least of all with half a dozen slowpokes around him on D.

    We went 8-4 or whatever with a practice-squad WR at QB; NE was without their defensive captain & was decimated with more injuries I&#39;ve ever seen & still went 17-2; Carolina almost won a superbowl with two pro-bowlers (same as us), Jake Delhomme at QB, & a 2nd-year HC.

    Excuses are for losers. [/b][/quote]
    I like this guy.

    welcome to JI, rook.

  10. #50
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    I have not been a bradway fan and have been disappointed with alot of his moves for the past few seasons. However, I will give him a lot of credit for his free agent moves and for most of his picks in the draft. I also loved the fact that he did not try to re-sign Pennington yet. I hope he waits until the end of the season on that one.

    My only complaint this year is that he waited too long and missed out on a couple of proven defensive coordinators and I am not a Jon Vilma fan because he really had a tough time playing a against physical running teams in college. I just hope that he can play OLB and hold his own there. Just like I hope Hobson can play the MLB in the 4-3 and ILB in the 3-4. But we will see in September&#33;

    Otherwise Bradway brought in a lot of flat out good football players&#33;&#33;&#33;

  11. #51
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by nyjet80[/i]@May 1 2004, 03:05 AM
    [b] ps~ It&#39;s ok, you can become a Jets fan now, I don&#39;t mind. [/b][/quote]
    I think he already is.... <_<

  12. #52
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by RichardSeymour[/i]@May 1 2004, 02:55 AM
    [b] This has to be the beer talking....

    But I guess I gotta say it. Bradway&#39;s done, overall (there is little question in my mind that the Barrett contract was a flat out stupid move), a nice job this offseason.

    Tongue, while hardly a premier player, is a solid veteran addition to the Jets weak secondary. While Barrett&#39;s contract is abysmal, Barrett himself is another warm body in the secondary, a young one with upside to boot.

    The Barton signing was a flat out good move.

    Bradway is, FINALLY, making some of the much needed cuts.

    You can quibble with where Vilma was drafted, but not with the need (whatever you think of Hobson+Cowart+Barton, the Jets LB depth was abysmal), and Vilma himself is a heck of a player who (and I can&#39;t emphasize this enough) [i]in the right system, and with proper understanding by the defensive coordinator[/i] has the potential to be a Brian Urlacher (imo a better comparison than Ray Lewis) type talent, and an impact player for the Jets defense.

    Derrick Strait, another player who&#39;s success may depend on the system he&#39;s in, and the wisdom of the defensive coordinator, was a steal in the 3rd round, and has a strong chance to be a great #2 CB, or even a good to great #1 CB. Like any prospect, there&#39;s a real chance of failure, but as DBs who aren&#39;t physical freaks go, there aren&#39;t many better than Strait.

    Jericho Cotchery, while a pick that apprantly elicited some bafflement on draft day, was also an excellent pick, a productive college WR with solid physical tools who fills a critical position of need: Moss and McCareins should be a fine top two, but Wayne Chrebet is at this stage a complete question mark, and any production from him should be considered a bonus, but not counted on. If Chrebet is done, Cotchery provides a decent young insurance policy at #3. If he isn&#39;t done, Cotchery will have the chance to develop slowly, as a solid #4 option, and to be groomed for a future role in the top 3. Without a player such as Cotchery, the Jets WR corps would be critically thin.

    After that, I havn&#39;t cared to immerse myself in doing due diligence on the rest of the Jets draft, but for the purposes of this post I&#39;ll assume it was reasonably solid.

    I would also like to note that the lack of an extension for Pennington is thus far an encouraging sign: if CP has a good or great season, it will be a relatively easy matter to franchise or transition tag him and agree to a long term extension.... if he has a poor year, the value of not having signed him to an elite, long term massive QB contract will be immeasurable: the Jets will be able to sign him long term cheaply or pursue other options.

    Having Pennington unsigned is a low risk/high reward proposition.

    The part-time switch to the 3-4 is a smart move: Ellis (3-4 DE), D-Rob (NT), and Abraham (3-4 OLB) are all particularly well suited for the 3-4.

    While the team still has broad depth issues, the DL, LB corps, secondary, and WR corps are no longer anemic. The OL is still fairly thin, but as NFL teams go the Jets are not in a horrible situation.

    With good coaching (and that&#39;s the big question mark) the Jets should be as good as any non New England team in the AFCE as soon as the team begins to gel (and with a new DC and system, when the team gels is a bit of a question.)


    Still, I&#39;ve ripped Bradway up and down on this board, and I feel like I should give credit where credit is due.... the guy finally put together a decent offseason.

    But again, that could just be the beer talking. [/b][/quote]
    :blink: :blink: :blink: I never thought I&#39;d see the day. :D

  13. #53
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by RichardSeymour+May 1 2004, 11:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (RichardSeymour @ May 1 2004, 11:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--The Troll[/i]@May 1 2004, 10:18 PM
    [b] I hope Barrett plays well. He obviously flashed some ability while playing behind absolutely no pass rush in Arizona. I&#39;m excited to see what he brings to the table. All this talk is a moot point really, the Jets didn&#39;t sign this guy to cut him after one season. If he does bad, he does bad, but he&#39;ll be back. Hell, Aaron Beasley lasted two years here. [/b][/quote]
    I agree.

    My only point of contention is that some Jets fans continue to characterize this as a "1 year audition" or to say that there&#39;s an easy out to the contract. It isn&#39;t, and there isn&#39;t.[/b][/quote]

    My point remains, that you discount the budget. I admit for the umpteenth time that ridding yourself of Barrett in year two, is an admission of an error, but itís also a fairly effective way of cleaning the slate. Can they take the hit? Sure they can. Donít discount the long-term relief that gets created. Of course itís bad if they have to cut Barrett. All Jets fans hope that heís anything but a potential cut, but there are options for both outcomes.
    This comes down to semantics. There is an easy out, you pay off the signing bonus in year two before the roster bonus is due and you are done. That&#39;s an out. You want to call it a painful out, thatís your take. Thatís your right.

    This is a moderately sized deal. It was a 4.5 mil commitment. That 4.5 is etched in stone.

    After looking at the post where provided the yearly salary break-down, the Jets spend LESS that what I was estimating, not more. Yes, termination DOES cost more, but you&#39;d still have spent less.

    I was figuring a much bigger salary in year one, when itís actually the lowest pay year, so if he&#39;s cut, you pay that year-one pittance, plus the remaining 3.75M.

    You think that a 5M hit spaced over two years is a huge problem, and I disagree. Again, in my earlier post, I was thinking more like a 7M whack, so that is likely what people meant by and out. You get out year two and you have paid almost NONE of the almost 15 mil in salary and NONE of the roster bonuses.

    If you think that the money represents a huge problem, then you are more than willing to feel that way.

  14. #54
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by The Troll[/i]@May 1 2004, 11:18 PM
    [b] I hope Barrett plays well. He obviously flashed some ability while playing behind absolutely no pass rush in Arizona. I&#39;m excited to see what he brings to the table. All this talk is a moot point really, the Jets didn&#39;t sign this guy to cut him after one season. If he does bad, he does bad, but he&#39;ll be back. Hell, Aaron Beasley lasted two years here. [/b][/quote]
    I pretty much agree, but this was a hypothetical.

    And hypothetically, if he gets torched over and over, he&#39;ll go before that roster bonus is due.

    So yes, I agree, Barrett could end up being solid.

  15. #55
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Ray Ray19[/i]@May 2 2004, 02:40 AM
    [b]
    Gee, that&#39;s a pretty RETARDED statement.

    Yeah, EVERY damn team can field a starting team under 30, but is that the best team on the field?

    Don&#39;t sit there and try to spin it either, the best players on the Patriots are certainly NOT the guys under 30, there is a good mix of both. It REMAINS to be seen if the influx of youth the last couple of years will make up the core of your team, for now, they are complimentary players, they are certainly NOT the core of your team.

    But we&#39;ll find out soon enough because the Pats have lost key players, and the core of their team continues to age&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Under 30 starters -

    Offense 9 of 11
    Brady, Branch, Givens, Light, Hochstein, Andruzzi, Koppen, Ashworth, Graham

    Defense 5 of 11
    Warren, Seymour, Colvin, Vrabel, Wilson

    Putting Traylor ahead of Wilfork, but we also have Jarvis Green, Bailey, Klecko and Hill in the rotation at DL. As a Jets fan I do not expect you to know, but the LB Crops has Chatham and Banata-Cain in reserves and both showed some positive signs last year.

    The only place where age is a concern is the defensive backfield, but that is not a pressing concern yet. Ty just turned 30 and we have Samuel who has been in the system one year and two draft picks who seem slotted to be the future safeties.

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