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Thread: Vilma needs weight training

  1. #1
    this is gonna be a short and sweet post

    ladies and gentlemen:

    this is what an NFL caliber backer looks like:

    Strong, powerful, built - ready for war

    [img]http://www.jetsinsider.com/minicamp2004/images/cowart.JPG[/img]

    ----

    this is what our rookie backer looks like:

    [img]http://www.jetsinsider.com/minicamp2004/images/vilma1.JPG[/img]

    slim, willowey - in one word - undersized.

    love the intensity, love the quickness and leadership but lets face facts people, Vilma is basically a strong safety playing linebacker at this point in his career.

    i've heard Vilma compared to Urlacher - and its a valid comparison... except that Urlacher was 250 and Vilma can't be more than 225.

    even guys like Brooks or Coakley or Z Thomas or Nyguen... Vilma is skinnier, less compact than all of the above.

    he needs bulk. im not saying it was a bad pick... but i am saying his weight needs to be addressed.

    if we started Vilma right now teams would run right at him... and why not?

  2. #2
    What are you a personal trainer or a nutriotionalist? Let Vilma and the trainers decide what he needs to put on we as posters have no idea what we are talking about.

  3. #3
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    I think Vilma's size proves that he wont start, but will be used in special packages and such. He will gain weight before the season starts, but not enough to say he is ready. I think by next year, he will grow into a starters body.

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    I think that too much is expected of rookies right out the gate.

    I don't have a problem with Vilma's frame. He will put on more muscle as time goes along. Right now He's 233.

    I expect Vilma to play on special teams, in the 3-4 alignments and 4-3. I also expect Vilma to play on passing downs. He's going to serve alot of different roles as a rookie.

    Vilma is a guy who trains with all the great Miami linebackers like Ray Lewis and company.

    I expect him to spend alot of time in the weight room and class room but his best spot is on the field.

  5. #5
    It takes time. but trust me there are people on the staff paid thousands of dollars because they know what type of diet and excercise regiment is needed to gain, lose, or sustain weight. This is not an everday joe trying to go on a diet, Vilma will be put on a stric diet (prob. filled with protein) and work out a ton! He is a very hard-worker and there is no doubt in my mind that he will work his ass off to get better in any category that he needs to improve, weight or anything else. We all have to relax, cowart will be very good at MLB and vilma will come into that role slowly . . . there is no rush this guy can be the future stud of our defense - why rush or overhype him now?

  6. #6
    You got all that from that picture, eh bitonti?

    Me thinks you have some kind of agenda on the guy.

    Vilma played in one of the biggest and strongest college programs there is in college football, ne was just one of many "all star" football players on that team, but he was the BEST out of all of them.

    Vilma easily comes in as our nickel MLB, and will get PLENTY of playing time.

    I too don't think he'll start, there is no need for him to start, we have a guy returning to the position he is most comfortable playing, who himself was one of the TOP 5 in the game not too long ago.

    The Jets LB position, once a position of weakness, can easily be considered one of the better LB units in the league right now.

  7. #7
    The last time we drafted a MLB in the 1st Rd he came with the perfect package of size and speed ... awesome physical specimen with all world production to boot ... yet he never fullfilled expectations

    Marvin Jones was a physical marvel at FSU ... the prototypical stocky, thick, but fast MLB you hope to find

    Say what you will, but if you are even vaguely familiar with his career at FSU and the expectations that followed him into the NFL, he never even approached those lofty expectations

    He was an okay MLB in the NFL ... but this man was supposed to be Dick Butkus ... those were the comparisons folks were making ... he was supposed to be Ray Lewis before there was a Ray Lewis ... NOT EVEN CLOSE

    So let's hope this slightly undersized MLB does what the prototypical MLB never did ... meets and exceeds his lofty expectations

    For the record, I wouldn't bet against him ... much better work ethic than Marvin Jones ... they didn't call Marvin "Shadetree" for nothing ... that was a nickname he earned at FSU cause he could always be found lying under some shadetree at practice ... it was a catchy nickname, but in retrospect that should have been the first red flag ... trust me on this one, you won't find Jon Vlima chillin under any shadetree's ;)

  8. #8
    i have no agenda against jon vilma

    but i can tell you this if he's really 233 than im deion sanders

    -

    actually this is something that i brought up several months ago - With a guy like Vilma you know what his weakness is - he needs weight.

    some other guys you don't know their weakness might be smoking crack or a low pain tolerance or no football instincts - things like that teams don't find out until its too late

    no pick is perfect and with Vilma its a situation where he needs to bulk up - even if the coaching staff determines its only 10 or 15 extra pounds, those extra pounds will make all the difference.

    just to reiterate i have no problems with the pick and i wouldn't bet against Jon vilma either

    but my point is that people need to temper their expectations for Vilma's first year. The draft is a long term solution, NOT a short term solution. He NEEDS weight... period. If you don't agree you are in denial.

  9. #9
    Ham RE: Marvin JOnes it wasn't just his work ethic - that guy suffered some of the worst injuries a player can suffer very early in his career - he needed a replacement hip and either one or both knees reconstructed..

    that's the other X factor of ALL these picks - injuries. A player is worthless if he can't get on the field and stay there.

  10. #10
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:48 PM
    [b] i have no agenda against jon vilma

    but i can tell you this if he's really 233 than im deion sanders

    -

    actually this is something that i brought up several months ago - With a guy like Vilma you know what his weakness is - he needs weight.

    some other guys you don't know their weakness might be smoking crack or a low pain tolerance or no football instincts - things like that teams don't find out until its too late

    no pick is perfect and with Vilma its a situation where he needs to bulk up - even if the coaching staff determines its only 10 or 15 extra pounds, those extra pounds will make all the difference.

    just to reiterate i have no problems with the pick and i wouldn't bet against Jon vilma either

    but my point is that people need to temper their expectations for Vilma's first year. The draft is a long term solution, NOT a short term solution. He NEEDS weight... period. If you don't agree you are in denial. [/b][/quote]
    Sure ya do, you have all along. Its ok though...he'll prove you wrong.

  11. #11
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    This is the one thing that worried me about Vilma as an NFL player. He was 215 on a good day in college. He jumped up to 233 and his speed dropped at the combines and workouts. Demorrio Williams was in the same boat only he added weight and his speed actually improved. The question is, if Vilma adds more weight, will he still have adequate NFL LB speed?

  12. #12
    [quote][i]Originally posted by LesterLyles[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:54 PM
    [b] Sure ya do, you have all along. Its ok though...he'll prove you wrong. [/b][/quote]
    LL straight up you don't know s**t about me

    in fact i was the guy who STARTED OFF draft season very much recommending Vilma at 12... that was months ago

    what you guys think that Vilma at 230 is gonna be an NFL caliber backer? the way he is now? with no additional bulk?

    whatever

  13. #13
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:53 PM
    [b] Ham RE: Marvin JOnes it wasn't just his work ethic - that guy suffered some of the worst injuries a player can suffer very early in his career - he needed a replacement hip and either one or both knees reconstructed..

    that's the other X factor of ALL these picks - injuries. A player is worthless if he can't get on the field and stay there. [/b][/quote]
    All true ... but there was something missing with Marvin Jones and it was apparent very early on

    1. No-one ever called him a tireless worker ... no-one called him a slacker either, but it seemed he did just enough to skate ... mostly relied on his ability to do the rest, as it did in college

    2. He never had the nasty demeanor of a MLB on Gameday ... just wasn't that type of person ... didn't need to be nasty off the field, but there was no Jekyll/Hyde transformation on Gameday ... hate to make this sound ugly, but the great MLB's are out there to demolish people on Gameday ... Marvin never brought that type of intensity to the Game

    Conversely, I believe Vilma DOES possess a MLB's mentality and DOES possess a tireless work ethic ... on both counts that seems to be the book on Vilma

  14. #14
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:53 PM
    [b] Ham RE: Marvin JOnes it wasn't just his work ethic - that guy suffered some of the worst injuries a player can suffer very early in his career - he needed a replacement hip and either one or both knees reconstructed..

    that's the other X factor of ALL these picks - injuries. A player is worthless if he can't get on the field and stay there. [/b][/quote]
    AGREED!

  15. #15
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@May 1 2004, 01:47 PM
    [b] The last time we drafted a MLB in the 1st Rd he came with the perfect package of size and speed ... awesome physical specimen with all world production to boot ... yet he never fullfilled expectations

    Marvin Jones was a physical marvel at FSU ... the prototypical stocky, thick, but fast MLB you hope to find

    Say what you will, but if you are even vaguely familiar with his career at FSU and the expectations that followed him into the NFL, he never even approached those lofty expectations

    He was an okay MLB in the NFL ... but this man was supposed to be Dick Butkus ... those were the comparisons folks were making ... he was supposed to be Ray Lewis before there was a Ray Lewis ... NOT EVEN CLOSE

    So let's hope this slightly undersized MLB does what the prototypical MLB never did ... meets and exceeds his lofty expectations

    For the record, I wouldn't bet against him ... much better work ethic than Marvin Jones ... they didn't call Marvin "Shadetree" for nothing ... that was a nickname he earned at FSU cause he could always be found lying under some shadetree at practice ... it was a catchy nickname, but in retrospect that should have been the first red flag ... trust me on this one, you won't find Jon Vlima chillin under any shadetree's ;) [/b][/quote]

    GJ&H is right. I too would have liked to see how Marvin's career would've shaped out had he not suffered those devastating injuries early in his career but Marvin Jones was very lazy when he was young. I know a few people who had a bird's eye view of his lifestyle after he got drafted and it wasnt a pretty one. Marvin was never one to decline a invite to party early in his career. And at those parties, he did some dumb s**t. You figure it out..... Maybe the injuries early in his career were a result of him not being in proper shape to play at the NFL level.

  16. #16

  17. #17
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    There are so many reasons to like, The Jonathan Vilma pick.

    First off, It gives The Jets more flexibility in their defensive fronts.

    It pushes Sam Cowart to step up his game.

    It improves our special teams and pass coverage on passing downs.

    The thing, I like most is that Vilma can help change our attitude and bring new life to this defense. That stuff means ALOT.

    There are always areas of concern with rookies. Bitonti brings up a good point. His size could hurt him as a rookie. He needs the d-lineman up front to hold their own. The Jets front office and coaching staff knows that.

    But..... I would not classify or go to extremes, to prove that Vilma is weak or a wimp. That's pretty far fetched. The guy is as tough as nails and fearless.

    Size can be an issue. No question about it. BUT...It doesn't effect alot of linebackers in The NFL now and it didn't effect Mike Singletary or Sam Mills. If Vilma was 5'9 and 200 pounds, I'd really be worried and he'd be playing safety.

  18. #18
    Bits right. Vilma does need to probably put on a few pounds. Nobody's saying thats a bad thing. A lot of draft picks need the same thing.

    It would probably be good for him to NOT start, play in the nickel and specials and bulk up a little bit this year.

  19. #19
    [quote][b] This is the one thing that worried me about Vilma as an NFL player. He was 215 on a good day in college. He jumped up to 233 and his speed dropped at the combines and workouts.[/b][/quote]

    Vilma played between 225 and 230 all season long. He had the better workout out of any Miami U player on his pro-day running 4.5, 4.55, and 4.58 in his 40.

    Every player that comes into the NFL needs to "hit the weight room," this isn't rocket science, most of these players are young and raw in terms of physical growth, Vilma won't be unlike any rookie that comes into the Pro game.

    Vilma, IS, however, READY to play the NFL game, TODAY, and to think, as good as he is NOW, BEFORE he hits the weight room in an NFL program for a year.

    Couple all of that with Vilma's leadership credidentials, and his confidence.

    That makes this guy downright SCARY, in terms of potential, no wonder BB wanted him so bad.

  20. #20
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    [url=http://hurricanesports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/vilma_jonathan00.html]http://hurricanesports.collegesports.com/s...jonathan00.html[/url]

    He was 220 in college and NFL Draft Countdown has him running a 4.61 at 233 lbs. So yes, he did slow down with the added weight. I'm not saying that means he's going to be a terrible player, I'm just saying that was something that concerned me about him.

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