[quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@May 2 2004, 02:52 PM
[b]
[b]BTW...PatsTXfan i'm still waiting to hear your definition of a "Successful Coach" after 3 years (I'm sure this will go by unresponded......At that's why your words hold a certain level of credibility with me).[/b]
[/b][/quote]
Hey Badway, chill out a bit bro. Wife's been all over me to help out in the yard today and tough sneeking into the office to respond. :lol:
Anyway, to measure a successful coach after 3 years you have to look at the starting point. Did a coach take over a team that totally needs to be rebuilt or did he take over a team that is already competitive.
Parcells, Fox and Belichick all took over teams that were horrible and turned the franchise completely around. Knock his losing record in Cleveland, but he eventually righted that ship and made them competitive. More importantly, Belichick [b]learned [/b]from his mistakes in Cleveland.
Hermy, on the other hand, took over a team that many considered a Super Bowl favorite. Big difference here. Two out of three years (with a very competitive team) he barely squeaked into the playoffs and made a very quick exit both times (save me the accomplishment of the Colts playoff win).
After three years of coaching you want to see noticable gains from year to year. Can you really say you see that with the job Hermy has done with the Jets? Each year his regular season record has declined and he continues to make the same mistakes as year one (slow starts, soft camps, poor in-game adjustments, reluctance to play rookies and pathetic clock management).
Hermy seems like a great guy and he continues to say all the right things. However, "the proof is in the pudding" and after three years nothing has changed.
Be very curious to see how everything unfolds this year.
[quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX[/i]@May 2 2004, 03:07 PM
[b]
Parcells, Fox and Belichick all took over teams that were horrible and turned the franchise completely around. Knock his losing record in Cleveland, but he eventually righted that ship and made them competitive. More importantly, Belichick [b]learned [/b]from his mistakes in Cleveland.
Hermy, on the other hand, took over a team that many considered a Super Bowl favorite. Big difference here. Two out of three years (with a very competitive team) he barely squeaked into the playoffs and made a very quick exit both times (save me the accomplishment of the Colts playoff win).
After three years of coaching you want to see noticable gains from year to year. Can you really say you see that with the job Hermy has done with the Jets? Each year his regular season record has declined and he continues to make the same mistakes as year one (slow starts, soft camps, poor in-game adjustments, reluctance to play rookies and pathetic clock management).
Hermy seems like a great guy and he continues to say all the right things. However, "the proof is in the pudding" and after three years nothing has changed.
Be very curious to see how everything unfolds this year.[/b][/quote]
Tex your stealing my posts again!! :lol: And even with the
Browns BB took over a 3-13 Team and went 6-10,7-9,7-9
and 11-5..Winning more games each year!!Then in year 5
he went 5-11 and didn't even get a extention..Whats up
with that??? :P
[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@May 2 2004, 03:13 PM
[b] Then in year 5 he went 5-11 and didn't even get a extention..Whats up with that??? :P [/b][/quote]
IMO, Belichick's biggest fault in Cleveland was he tried to do everything himself. He had no trust in his OC, DC and coaches. This was by far his biggest learning.
But a guess it helps to have a Charlie Weis and a Romeo Crennel as well. ;)
[quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@May 2 2004, 05:49 PM
[b] [QUOTE]savage...
With all that being said, YJF will pertpetually fight a losing battle against one Savage69. ;) [/b][/quote]
I don't think that Savage and I are trying to win an argument. He can't change my mind and I can't change his. If I was trying to change his mind or to get him to see my way of thinking, Then I'd be losing but I am not trying to do that.
All I am trying to do is get him to see my viewpoint. I see his and understand his take on this issue.
Savage makes a comment, I dispute it and support my argument with facts.
Savage responds by disputing my retort with facts.
Then an endless cycle ensues, where Savage and I go around in circles and eventually end up exactly where we started.
Each time though, I get a better understanding of where he stands and why he feels, what he feels. For that reason, I feel like the argument is a winning battle.
[quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 2 2004, 03:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 2 2004, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--savage69[/i]@May 2 2004, 03:13 PM
[b] Then in year 5 he went 5-11 and didn't even get a extention..Whats up with that??? :P [/b][/quote]
IMO, Belichick's biggest fault in Cleveland was he tried to do everything himself. He had no trust in his OC, DC and coaches. This was by far his biggest learning.
But a guess it helps to have a Charlie Weis and a Romeo Crennel as well. ;)[/b][/quote]
During a Offensive slump with the Jets Tuna got mad at the
Krispy Kreme Kid and took Charlies play calling away and the
Tuna took over for awhile!! I think Herm should let Chad not
only call the plays but Game plan also..He wasn't a Rhodes
Scholar for nothing!! ;)
I'd be happy if he just did the following next year:
1 - let the QB make audibles whenever he sees fit (done...allegedly)
2 - let his DC tailor the defense to the talent he has (done...allegedly)
3 - do a competent job of clock management (allegedly he's learned)
4 - stop telling the press what you're going to do before you do it. Surprise is a GOOD thing!
5 - carried a clipboard during a football game
6 - pull underperforming players before the losses rack up (and just DO it - don't rationalize it to the media beforehand. I saw fewer explanations from BB when he benched Drew Bledsoe)
7 - demand that his coordinators & coaches have a planned ATTACK, not a planned RESPONSE
If he does this, we have enough talent to be successful. No, we don't have a roster with a dozen pro-bowlers, but really who does? With proper coaching & play-calling we have enough talent to make some noise. Anything else is a bunch of excuses - the mantra of losers.
[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@May 2 2004, 03:27 PM
[b]
During a Offensive slump with the Jets Tuna got mad at the
Krispy Kreme Kid and took Charlies play calling away and the
Tuna took over for awhile!! [/b][/quote]
savage, did that really happen?
I remember one time when Parcells was in NE (I think it was Bledsoe's first year) a writer asked him if he was going to call all the plays.
In typical Tuna fashion, he glared at the writer and said something like "How the hell am I going to coach the team if I have to call all the damn plays?"
I miss Tuna's press conference more than anything. They were hilarious. :lol:
[quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX[/i]@May 2 2004, 03:33 PM
[b]
savage, did that really happen?
I miss Tuna's pres more than anything. They were hilarious. :lol:[/b][/quote]
Thats the way I remember it!! Maybe another Jet Fan can
add to it or correct it?? And I loved the Tuna's Press conference's!
They were as much Fun as the Game sometimes!! :lol:
[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMan57[/i]@May 2 2004, 06:11 PM
[b] It took Herm three years to figure out its better to take a 5 yard delay of game penalty (in most cases) rather than using a valuable timeout early in the 1st and 2nd half.
Better late than never, I guess. <_< [/b][/quote]
First off:
It's not always better to take a 5 yard delay. It's much easier to convert 3rd and 7 then it is to convert 3rd and 12.
If you pick up a 1st down on 3rd and 7, It can eventually lead to a scoring drive and be the difference between winning and losing a game.
If you take a 5 yard delay penalty and you don't pick up a first down on 3rd and 12. Then it could lead to a punt.
Second:
Herm and all head coaches are in not charge of every single timeout taken. On offense, QB's often call timeouts when they don't like what they see at the line of scrimmage. The offensive coordinator has a say in this area as well. On defense, The same thing happens there, a player calls timeout sometimes as does, The D-Coordinator.
"Better late than never"..... That was my reaction to the guy in your avatar getting cut. ;)
[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+May 2 2004, 07:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ May 2 2004, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--PatsFanTX[/i]@May 2 2004, 03:33 PM
[b]
savage, did that really happen?
I miss Tuna's pres more than anything. They were hilarious. :lol:[/b][/quote]
Thats the way I remember it!! Maybe another Jet Fan can
add to it or correct it?? And I loved the Tuna's Press conference's!
They were as much Fun as the Game sometimes!! :lol: [/b][/quote]
It did happen. When The Jets got off to another one of The Tuna's notorious bad starts. ;)
He took over the playcalling. What you gotta remember is that Tuna hired Weiss and his entire coaching staff.
Herman Edwards didn't hire his coordinators and some of his assistants. Bradway did.
That incident was funny though. Parcells never treats the people around him with kid gloves. He handles them with barb wire. Hey, it works,. You can't knock it. A coach like Dick Vermeil, is totally the opposite but his style works for him too.
[quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:04 PM
[b]
It did happen. When The Jets got off to another one of The Tuna's notorious bad starts. ;)
[quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:04 PM
[b]
Herman Edwards didn't hire his coordinators and some of his assistants. Bradway did.
I have 3 times already gone back to the Newspaper Archives and
posted that it was Herm not TB who hired his OWN Staff!! This is
the Crap that drives me Crazy!! You know I won't stand still for the
Herm Apology Crap!! :rolleyes:
[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+May 2 2004, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ May 2 2004, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:04 PM
[b]
Herman Edwards didn't hire his coordinators and some of his assistants. Bradway did.
I have 3 times already gone back to the Newspaper Archives and
posted that it was Herm not TB who hired his OWN Staff!! This is
the Crap that drives me Crazy!! You know I won't stand still for the
Herm Apology Crap!! :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
I am not wrong.
The owner wanted Cottrell. Herm had no ties with him whatsoever. They both happened to interview for the head coaching position.
Herm was a rookie head coach. He had no say in who was hired on the staff. Cottrell brought in a couple of his buddies from Buffalo in Bradley etc
Herm didn't disagree with any of the hirings because he couldn't. he didn't have that kind of power. Name the assistants that Herm brought in from Tampa or anywhere else that worked with him.
Herm probably approved of The Hackett hiring because of The KC connection but that was Bradway's call.
Westhoff was a terrific hiring who The Fish dumped for some stupid reason. It was a political deal between Westhoff and Wanny.
The Jets have had musical chairs at assistant positions since Herm has been here. Bill Muir was here for 2001 and then left for Tampa. All these Marrone, Canales, Ruben Carter were approved by Herm but never hired by him.
This offseason, Herm finally got more say and was given the permission to make changes to his staff. He wanted Gregg Williams first, that was a good choice unfortunately, Washington made a huge financial commitment to Gregg. Marinelli wasn't allowed to escape Tampa. So Herm interviewed a bunch of guys and was impressed with Donnie and hired him.
I also like the hiring of Denny Marcin as D-Line coach. Carter was garbage.
[quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:24 PM
[b]tThe owner wanted Cottrell. Herm had no ties with him whatsoever. They both happened to interview for the head coaching position.
Herm was a rookie head coach. He had no say in who was hired on the staff. Cottrell brought in a couple of his buddies from Buffalo in Bradley etc
Herm didn't disagree with any of the hirings because he couldn't. he didn't have that kind of power. Name the assistants that Herm brought in from Tampa or anywhere else that worked with him.
Herm probably approved of The Hackett hiring because of The KC connection but that was Bradway's call.
Westhoff was a terrific hiring who The Fish dumped for some stupid reason. It was a political deal between Westhoff and Wanny.
The Jets have had musical chairs at assistant positions since Herm has been here. Bill Muir was here for 2001 and then left for Tampa. All these Marrone, Canales, Ruben Carter were approved by Herm but never hired by him.
This offseason, Herm finally got more say and was given the permission to make changes to his staff. He wanted Gregg Williams first, that was a good choice unfortunately, Washington made a huge financial commitment to Gregg. Marinelli wasn't allowed to escape Tampa. So Herm interviewed a bunch of guys and was impressed with Donnie and hired him.
I also like the hiring of Denny Marcin as D-Line coach. Carter was garbage.[/b][/quote]
Prove it!! Show me where it was printed in any Newspaper or
on a Legal Jet site where it was stated HC Edwards is the HC
in Name only! The decisions will be made by the Rookie Owner
or the Rookie GM!! What your stating is what I have said all along
then..He was nothing but a token hire..You can't have it both ways!
[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+May 2 2004, 08:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ May 2 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:24 PM
[b]tThe owner wanted Cottrell. Herm had no ties with him whatsoever. They both happened to interview for the head coaching position.
Herm was a rookie head coach. He had no say in who was hired on the staff. Cottrell brought in a couple of his buddies from Buffalo in Bradley etc
Herm didn't disagree with any of the hirings because he couldn't. he didn't have that kind of power. Name the assistants that Herm brought in from Tampa or anywhere else that worked with him.
Herm probably approved of The Hackett hiring because of The KC connection but that was Bradway's call.
Westhoff was a terrific hiring who The Fish dumped for some stupid reason. It was a political deal between Westhoff and Wanny.
The Jets have had musical chairs at assistant positions since Herm has been here. Bill Muir was here for 2001 and then left for Tampa. All these Marrone, Canales, Ruben Carter were approved by Herm but never hired by him.
This offseason, Herm finally got more say and was given the permission to make changes to his staff. He wanted Gregg Williams first, that was a good choice unfortunately, Washington made a huge financial commitment to Gregg. Marinelli wasn't allowed to escape Tampa. So Herm interviewed a bunch of guys and was impressed with Donnie and hired him.
I also like the hiring of Denny Marcin as D-Line coach. Carter was garbage.[/b][/quote]
Prove it!! Show me where it was printed in any Newspaper or
on a Legal Jet site where it was stated HC Edwards is the HC
in Name only! The decisions will be made by the Rookie Owner
or the Rookie GM!! What you stating is what I have said all along
then..He was nothing but a token hire..You can't have it both ways! [/b][/quote]
It's not a token hire.
Terry Bradway was hired to be in charge of the entire operation.
Most rookie head coaches don't get to pick their entire staff.
Herm wasn't hired as The GM. Bradway was.
They retained a couple of guys from Groh's staff and they hired some new coordinators. I was upset when Henning wasn't brought back. Henning was a bad head coach but he's a terrific OC.
Anyway, Bradway made the hires but not without Edwards approval. I'll give you that but the coaches brought in, were not his choices and he did not have the power to veto anything. Now he does.
The owner loved Teddy and wanted him on the staff.
Let's see how Donnie Henderson and company do.
[quote][i]Originally posted by YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:39 PM
[b]
Terry Bradway was hired to be in charge of the entire operation.
Most rookie head coaches don't get to pick their entire staff.
Herm wasn't hired as The GM. Bradway was.
They retained a couple of guys from Groh's staff and they hired some new coordinators. I was upset when Henning wasn't brought back. Henning was a bad head coach but he's a terrific OC.
Anyway, Bradway made the hires but not without Edwards approval. I'll give you that but the coaches brought in, were not his choices and he did not have the power to veto anything. Now he does.
The owner loved Teddy and wanted him on the staff.
Let's see how Donnie Henderson and company do.[/b][/quote]
Show me where TB/Woody hired Herms staff not Herm!! If I have to
I'll go back and get the Articles where Herm hired both Hackett
and Cotrell!! Here's a interesting thing as much as I love Coach
Henderson..Herm was hiring Guys on the defense before Hendu
was hired..Unless of course Herm asked Henderson before he
hired them.. But show me where it's said other than YJF's mind
where Terry/Woody picked Herms staff!!And if you can..I won't do another
BBQ joke ever!! ;)
[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+May 2 2004, 08:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ May 2 2004, 08:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--YoungJetsFan[/i]@May 2 2004, 04:39 PM
[b]
Terry Bradway was hired to be in charge of the entire operation.
Most rookie head coaches don't get to pick their entire staff.
Herm wasn't hired as The GM. Bradway was.
They retained a couple of guys from Groh's staff and they hired some new coordinators. I was upset when Henning wasn't brought back. Henning was a bad head coach but he's a terrific OC.
Anyway, Bradway made the hires but not without Edwards approval. I'll give you that but the coaches brought in, were not his choices and he did not have the power to veto anything. Now he does.
The owner loved Teddy and wanted him on the staff.
Let's see how Donnie Henderson and company do.[/b][/quote]
Show me where TB/Woody hired Herms staff not Herm!! If I have to
I'll go back and get the Articles where Herm hired both Hackett
and Cotrell!! Here's a interesting thing as much as I love Coach
Henderson..Herm was hiring Guys on the defense before Hendu
was hired..Unless of course Herm asked Henderson before he
hired them.. But show me where it's said other than YJF's mind
where Terry/Woody picked Herms staff!!And if you can..I won't do another
BBQ joke ever!! ;) [/b][/quote]
You can go back and find articles.
Herm did not hire Hackett and Cottrell. That's a fact. I know alot of people on here have short memories, and can't think as far back as 2001. Everyone around here is very forgetful.
Funny, I was just reading where Chuck Noll and his "quality control assistant" struggled with calling time-outs and time management. They actually made little cheat-sheets that they taped to the lids of their hats that they could refer to during the game. Great coaches, you know, need help.
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