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Thread: 10 Most Improved NFL Teams 2004

  1. #21
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 07:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 07:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:29 PM
    [b]

    Simply looking at the draft, we acquired arguably the best lb and cb in college, with Vilma and Strait. [/b][/quote]

    Derrick Strait a better CB than Hall and Robinson? :blink: :blink: [/b][/quote]
    Notice he said "arguably."

    And its a pretty reasonable argument. How many awards did Hall and Robinson win? Strait actually won the award for best defensive back in college football. So he probably was the best CB in college. Whether he will be better in the pros...we shall see

  2. #22
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 07:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 07:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:29 PM
    [b]

    Simply looking at the draft, we acquired arguably the best lb and cb in college, with Vilma and Strait. [/b][/quote]

    Derrick Strait a better CB than Hall and Robinson? :blink: :blink: [/b][/quote]
    I belive the fans are ready to put them in the hall of fame already....just like Pennington. They&#39;re the best ever&#33;

  3. #23
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by TheBrodyMan[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:42 PM
    [b]
    Notice he said "arguably."

    And its a pretty reasonable argument. How many awards did Hall and Robinson win? Strait actually won the award for best defensive back in college football. So he probably was the best CB in college. Whether he will be better in the pros...we shall see [/b][/quote]

    Brody- That&#39;s a very weak arguement. Player awards in college mean absolutely nothing with how a player will perform in the NFL.

    Using your arguement, then the Heisman Trophy winner should always be the number one pick? :blink:

    Hey, I personally like the Strait pick for the Jets, but Hall and Robinson were two better CB&#39;s.

  4. #24
    I agree with the first two but the rest are a toss up. The Jets should be in there though.

  5. #25
    [quote][i]Originally posted by MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:29 PM
    [b] I try to be reasonable and unbiased with this team, but let&#39;s look at our additions. Some of them are not only on-field personnel, but coaching staff/philosophy.

    McCareins>Conway
    Barton>Lewis
    Barrett>Beasley
    Moore>Szott
    Tounge>Garnes [/b][/quote]
    The keyword is "improved." Jets were really close in a lot of games last year and got better in FA/draft, coaching staff. Can&#39;t wait for the season.

    Also Add:

    Marcin>Carter
    Hendu>Cotrell
    Graber>I forget
    New improved D-Rob>rookie D-Rob
    Cowart/Vilma>Jones&#33;

  6. #26
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 07:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheBrodyMan[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:42 PM
    [b]
    Notice he said "arguably."

    And its a pretty reasonable argument. How many awards did Hall and Robinson win? Strait actually won the award for best defensive back in college football. So he probably was the best CB in college. Whether he will be better in the pros...we shall see [/b][/quote]

    Brody- That&#39;s a very weak arguement. Player awards in college mean absolutely nothing with how a player will perform in the NFL.

    Using your arguement, then the Heisman Trophy winner should always be the number one pick? :blink:

    Hey, I personally like the Strait pick for the Jets, but Hall and Robinson were two better CB&#39;s. [/b][/quote]
    Notice I never said he is going to be a great cornerback in the NFL. The point that was made was that he was the best cornerback in [i]college[/i] not the NFL. MiamiJet is making the argument that the Jets drafted the players who produced the best in college. A player can be the best player in college and be far from that in the pros, and thats the point I am making with Derrik Strait.

    And a lot of times with the Heisman trophy, the best player doesnt neccesarily get it because of a lot of reasons. I really dont think their is an argument with Strait, based on production, that he didnt deserve the award for best defensive back in college football. Again, I understand this doesnt translate into Strait being a better pro than Robinon or Hall, but looking at his college years...he is better.

  7. #27
    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 03:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheBrodyMan[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:42 PM
    [b]
    Notice he said "arguably."

    And its a pretty reasonable argument. How many awards did Hall and Robinson win? Strait actually won the award for best defensive back in college football. So he probably was the best CB in college. Whether he will be better in the pros...we shall see [/b][/quote]

    Brody- That&#39;s a very weak arguement. Player awards in college mean absolutely nothing with how a player will perform in the NFL.

    Using your arguement, then the Heisman Trophy winner should always be the number one pick? :blink:

    Hey, I personally like the Strait pick for the Jets, but Hall and Robinson were two better CB&#39;s. [/b][/quote]
    A weak arguement beats no arguement :)
    Strait&#39;s a football player and a playmaker. Dunta and DeAngelo are probably bigger and faster.. Strait is still "arguably" the best CB that was in the draft. Hall is still arguably the best CB in the Draft and Robinson is also arguably the best CB in the draft.

    We won&#39;t know for a few years though...

  8. #28
    [quote][i]Originally posted by suprjet[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:54 PM
    [b]
    New improved D-Rob>rookie D-Rob
    [/b][/quote]
    Ok, I&#39;ve got to ask, how in the Hell can you put a statement like that out there baised on pure conjecture? Thats like saying every rookie that had a disappointing year last year is going to be much improved this year. I can understand wishful thinking but history is not on D Robs side.

  9. #29
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by CUJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 04:04 PM
    [b]
    A weak arguement beats no arguement :)
    Strait&#39;s a football player and a playmaker. Dunta and DeAngelo are probably bigger and faster.. Strait is still "arguably" the best CB that was in the draft. Hall is still arguably the best CB in the Draft and Robinson is also arguably the best CB in the draft.
    [/b][/quote]

    Hey, I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here.

    Strait was an excellent pick (along with Vilma) by the Jets.

    You need to hope Hermy has the cajones to put him on the playing field (and not just special teams) and let him learn by his mistakes.

  10. #30
    [quote][b]Hey, I personally like the Strait pick for the Jets, but Hall and Robinson were two better CB&#39;s.[/b][/quote]

    What do you base this on?

    The fact that they were drafted higher?

    Most draft reviews had Robinson rated LOWER than Strait.

    Strait tested better in almost every other category than Robinson, except for 40 time.

    Strait is a better tackler, has better instincts, is a FAR greater leader, and shut down Roy Williams in the four games they played against each other. What did Robinson do? In big games, Strait played big.

    I can argue that Strait is just as good as Hall, not only because of the awards Strait won, or by how similar their profiles match, or even by how they fared against their compettition. We have no real idea how they&#39;ll turn out as pros. Yet. That Hall was drafted ahead of him means little.

    How high was Quentin Jammer ranked? How good is he? Charles Tillman was drafted by Chicago in the late 2nd round last year, and many thought he should have made the Pro Bowl last year. He was the best rookie corner last year, despite those that were drafted ahead of him.

    I, unlike you, PatsfanTx, can give valid reasons why Strait might be as good , if not better than Robinson and/or Hall.

    You can&#39;t.

  11. #31
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 04:16 PM
    [b]
    I, unlike you, PatsfanTx, can give valid reasons why Strait might be as good , if not better than Robinson and/or Hall.

    You can&#39;t. [/b][/quote]

    Miami, why don&#39;t you give me some lottery numbers while you are at it. ;)

    Hall and Robinson go #8 and #10.

    Strait goes at #76.

    I guess all 32 teams were wrong about Strait and you were right. :blink: :blink:

  12. #32
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 08:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 04:16 PM
    [b]
    I, unlike you, PatsfanTx, can give valid reasons why Strait might be as good , if not better than Robinson and/or Hall.

    You can&#39;t. [/b][/quote]

    Miami, why don&#39;t you give me some lottery numbers while you are at it. ;)

    Hall and Robinson go #8 and #10.

    Strait goes at #76.

    I guess all 32 teams were wrong about Strait and you were right. :blink: :blink: [/b][/quote]
    It wouldnt be the first time the majority of the NFL was wrong ;)

  13. #33
    [quote][b]Miami, why don&#39;t you give me some lottery numbers while you are at it.

    Hall and Robinson go #8 and #10.

    Strait goes at #76.

    I guess all 32 teams were wrong about Strait and you were right. [/b][/quote]

    If I had them, you&#39;d be the last one I&#39;d give them to.... :D ;)

    BTW, PatTx, wasn&#39;t the league wrong about Brady? :blink:

    Spin that one......

  14. #34
    I think that the Seahawks made a mistake in letting Springs go. Bobby Taylor is too old but I like the Grant Wistrom move. I&#39;d put the Jets at #10.

  15. #35
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    If going from 6-10 to 12-4 is not most improved i dont know what is&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; 2004 JETS WILL BE 12-4&#33;&#33;

  16. #36
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 04:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 04:16 PM
    [b]
    I, unlike you, PatsfanTx, can give valid reasons why Strait might be as good , if not better than Robinson and/or Hall.

    You can&#39;t. [/b][/quote]

    Miami, why don&#39;t you give me some lottery numbers while you are at it. ;)

    Hall and Robinson go #8 and #10.

    Strait goes at #76.

    I guess all 32 teams were wrong about Strait and you were right. :blink: :blink: [/b][/quote]
    Tx-

    You do realize that once the draft is over, everone starts from square one.

    How many GMs were wrong about Boldin?

    While I would be extremely happy if Strait turned out to be a better player than either Hall or Robinson (especially), I would not be shocked if that turned out to be the case.

  17. #37
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by JStokes[/i]@May 4 2004, 07:46 PM
    [b]
    Tx-

    You do realize that once the draft is over, everone starts from square one.

    How many GMs were wrong about Boldin?

    While I would be extremely happy if Strait turned out to be a better player than either Hall or Robinson (especially), I would not be shocked if that turned out to be the case. [/b][/quote]

    Actually Stokes, I agree with what you are saying.

    And you are right, 31 teams missed the boat with Boldin.

    My response to Miami was that he was making claims that Strait should have been higher up on the board than Hall or Robinson based on some meaningless awards he won.

    Can he end up better than Hall and Robinson? Sure he can, but those guys went 8 and 10 for a reason.

    You won&#39;t get a final answer on this for another 3 or 4 years anyway. ;)

  18. #38
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by LockeJET+May 4 2004, 12:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (LockeJET @ May 4 2004, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--suprjet[/i]@May 4 2004, 04:41 PM
    [b] More haters . . .

    One thing I noticed is the Bucs -- they currently have 18 OL on the roster. Kenyatta Walker, Matt O&#39;Dwyer or Matt Stinchcomb would be a nice addition. [/b][/quote]
    i totally aggree...would love one of those guys... [/b][/quote]
    not Walker, gets a lot of penalties...most likely to be let go

  19. #39
    [quote][b]My response to Miami was that he was making claims that Strait should have been higher up on the board than Hall or Robinson based on some meaningless awards he won.

    Can he end up better than Hall and Robinson? Sure he can, but those guys went 8 and 10 for a reason.

    You won&#39;t get a final answer on this for another 3 or 4 years anyway. [/b][/quote]

    PatFanTx, don&#39;t put words in my mouth.

    Where did I say that Strait should have been drafted higher than Hall or Robinson, and because of his awards?

    Go back and read my posts. I dare you to find where I said so.

    What I wrote, had you been paying attention, was that we drafted two players ARGUABLY the best at their position in Vilma and Strait.

    You took my statement and ran wild with your Patriot bias.

    I can argue that Strait is as good as Hall and Robinson, without mentioning his awards. You ignored my arguments.

    Everyone else can see this but you.

    Frankly, I&#39;m glad Houston took Robinson; Bradway might have drafted him, instead of Vilma.

  20. #40
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+May 4 2004, 01:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ May 4 2004, 01:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MiamiJet[/i]@May 4 2004, 03:29 PM
    [b]

    Simply looking at the draft, we acquired arguably the best lb and cb in college, with Vilma and Strait. [/b][/quote]

    Derrick Strait a better CB than Hall and Robinson? :blink: :blink: [/b][/quote]
    Dunta Robinson is fast. That doesn&#39;t make him better than Derrick Strait. For some reason, scouts are so caught up in a tenth of a second that they get blinded by the obvious. Derrick Strait was the best cornerback in the nation last season. He was the best DEFENSIVE PLAYER in the nation last season. Dunta Robinson is REAL FAST&#33; Tell me whose better.

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