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Thread: Disney doesn't want to offend Jeb

  1. #1
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    [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/national/05DISN.html?ei=5062&en=89983012bdce5ec0&ex=1084334400&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=]http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/05/national...print&position=[/url]

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    I'm actually rejoicing at Michael Moore(on) helping prove me right as to what a complete jackass he is. 'Ol Fat Bastard thought he was bigger than anyone else and figured he knew more than anyone else but is now getting his ass burnt after being warned [b]a year ago[/b] that Miramax would not distribute his film.

    Now he's got to lie as to why no one is interested in hearing what he has to say.

    Interesting Letter to the Editor today in the Slimes from one Michael Eisner:

    [b]May 10, 2004
    Disney and Michael Moore
    By MICHAEL D. EISNER



    To the Editor:

    You accuse the Walt Disney Company of cowardice and censorship because of its decision a year ago not to distribute Michael Moore's film "Fahrenheit 9/11" (editorial, May 6). In fact, the cowardly thing would have been to be intimidated into distributing the film. We did not block its distribution. There are many avenues for Mr. Moore to pursue to get his film distributed.

    Your accusations of stifling free expression are misplaced. [SIZE=3]The First Amendment does not say that The New York Times must print every article presented[/SIZE] to it or that the Walt Disney Company must distribute every movie. If a government entity had blocked Mr. Moore's film from being released, that would have violated the First Amendment, and we would have quickly signed up to join any protest.


    In the case of "Fahrenheit 9/11," we chose a path that was right for the company and its stakeholders.


    The creation of intellectual product rises and falls on similar judgments by creative people and executives across America. We would hope that The Times would recognize that the Walt Disney Company has the same right of freedom of expression that it is advocating for Mr. Moore.


    MICHAEL D. EISNER
    Chief Exec., Walt Disney Company
    Burbank, Calif., May 7, 2004


    [/b]

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    Moore [b]loves[/b] this. He WANTS this. This movie will get released and distributed, just like 'Dogma' did. Now Moore can run around saying things like, 'It's movie the powers that be don't want you to see!" "Come see the movie that no one wanted to be released! They are hiding everything, even this movie!"

    Such self-congratulatory nonsense.

    He is a demonstrable liar and polemic hack. He's Ann Coulter with a video camera. Idiots like you are making him a very rich man. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

    He's full of sh*t and anyone who takes him seriously is simply not a serious person. That's just the way 'tis. I don't take Rush or Coulter seriously. They are polemic hacks who have made millions being that way. Ditto for Moore.

    I can't wait for the liberals to wage a jihad against McDonald's after this absurd "Super Size Me" movie is released. The press is already tripping over themselves to fawn all over this guy.

    We are all children. We need people like Moore and Democrats to protect us! Self-determination be damned! I want to be coddled...hey, if ain't on my dime, why not! Let's get made at 'the rich" and the 'corporations' who provide more jobs and more tax revenue (i.e. services to the poor) than anyone else. And when a company like Wal-Mart provides products at low prices, let's demagogue them!

    The GOP and Bush piss me off to no end, they do. But, DAMN, Democrats piss me off a lot more. At least the GOP doesn't tax me more to buy votes by using rhetoric that implies that I am the reason for all of the ills in the world.

  4. #4
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    Friday, May 7th, 2004
    When You Wish Upon A Star… by Michael Moore


    Dear Friends,

    Thank you for all the incredible letters of support as my film crew and I once again slog our way through the corporate media madhouse. Does it ever end? Are we ever going to get control of our "free press" again? Can you wish upon a star?

    The Disney spin machine has been working overtime dealing with this censorship debacle of theirs. I don't think they thought they would ever be outed. After all, they know that all of us are supposed to adhere to the unwritten Hollywood Code: Never tell the public how business is done here, never let them have a peek at the man behind the curtain.

    Disney has been hoping for nearly a year that they could keep this thing quiet. As I promised on Wednesday, here are the details behind my sordid adventure with the Magic Kingdom:

    In April of 2003, I signed a deal with Miramax, a division of the Walt Disney Co., to finance and distribute my next movie, Fahrenheit 9/11. (The original financier had backed out; I will tell that story at a later date.) In my contract it is stated that Miramax will distribute my film in the U.S. through Disney's distribution arm, Buena Vista Distribution. It also gives Miramax the rights to distribute and sell the movie around the world.

    A month later, after shooting started, Michael Eisner insisted on meeting with my agent, Ari Emanuel. Eisner was furious that Miramax signed this deal with me. According to Mr. Emanuel, Eisner said he would never let my film be distributed through Disney even though Mr. Eisner had not seen any footage or even read the outline of the film. Eisner told my agent that he did not want to anger Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida. The movie, he believed, would complicate an already complicated situation with current and future Disney projects in Florida, and that many millions of dollars of tax breaks and incentives were at stake.

    But Michael Eisner did not call Miramax and tell them to stop my film. Not only that, for the next year, SIX MILLION dollars of DISNEY money continued to flow into the production of making my movie. Miramax assured me that there were no distribution problems with my film.

    But then, a few weeks ago when Fahrenheit 9/11 was selected to be in the Cannes Film Festival, Disney sent a low-level production executive to New York to watch the film (to this day, Michael Eisner has not seen the film). This exec was enthusiastic throughout the viewing. He laughed, he cried and at the end he thanked us. "This film is explosive," he exclaimed, and we took that as a positive sign. But “explosive” for these guys is only a good word when it comes to blowing up things in movies. OUR kind of “explosive” is what they want to run from as fast as they can.

    Miramax did their best to convince Disney to go ahead as planned with our film. Disney contractually can only stop Miramax from releasing a film if it has received an NC-17 rating (ours will be rated PG-13 or R).

    According to yesterday's New York Times, the issue of whether to release Fahrenheit 9/11 was discussed at Disney's board meeting last week. It was decided that Disney should not distribute our movie.

    Earlier this week we got the final, official call: Disney will not put out Fahrenheit 9/11. When the story broke in the New York Times, Disney, instead of telling the truth, turned into Pinocchio.

    Here are my favorite nuggets that have come out of the mouths of their spinmeisters (roughly quoted):

    "Michael Moore has known for a year that we will not distribute this movie, so this is not news." Yes, that is what I thought, too, except Disney kept sending us all that money to make the movie. Miramax said there was no problem. I got the idea that everything was fine.

    [b]"It is not in the best interests of our company to distribute a partisan political film that may offend some of our customers." Hmmm. Disney doesn't distribute work that has partisan politics? Disney distributes and syndicates the Sean Hannity radio show every day? I get to listen to Rush Limbaugh every day on Disney-owned WABC. I also seem to remember that Disney distributed a very partisan political movie during a Congressional election year, 1998—a film called The Big One… by, um… ME!

    "Fahrenheit 9/11 is not the Disney brand; we put out family oriented films." So true. That's why the #1 Disney film in theaters right now is a film called, KILL BILL, VOL. 2. This excellent Miramax film, along with other classics like Pulp Fiction, have all been distributed by Disney. That's why Miramax exists -- to provide an ALTERNATIVE to the usual Disney fare. And, unless they were NC-17, Disney has distributed them.

    "Mr. Moore is doing this as a publicity stunt." Michael Eisner reportedly said this the other day while he was at a publicity stunt cutting the ribbon for the new "Tower of Terror" ride (what a pleasant name considering what the country has gone through recently) at Disney's California Adventure Park.[/b] Let me tell you something: NO filmmaker wants to go through this kind of controversy. It does NOT sell tickets (I can cite many examples of movies who have had to change distributors at the last minute and all have failed). I made this movie so people could see it as soon as possible. This is a huge and unwanted distraction. I want people discussing the issues raised in my film, not some inside Hollywood fracas surrounding who is going to ship the prints to the theaters. Plus, I think it is fairly safe to say that Fahrenheit 9/11 has a good chance of doing just fine, considering that my last movie set a box office record and the subject matter (Bush, the War on Terror, the War in Iraq) is at the forefront of most people's minds.

    So what will happen to my movie? I still don't know. What I do know is that I will make sure all of you see it by hook or crook. We are Americans. There are a lot of screwed up things about us right now, but one thing that most of us have in common is that we don't like someone telling us we can't see something. We despise censors, and the worst censors are those who would dare to limit thoughts and ideas and silence dissent. THAT is un-American. If I have to travel across the country and show it in city parks (or, as one person offered yesterday, to show it on the side of his house for the neighborhood to see), that is what I will do.

    More to come, stay tuned.

    Yours,
    Michael Moore
    [url]www.michaelmoore.com[/url]
    [email]mmflint@aol.com[/email]

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    [quote][b]Moore loves this. He WANTS this. This movie will get released and distributed, just like 'Dogma' did. Now Moore can run around saying things like, 'It's movie the powers that be don't want you to see!" "Come see the movie that no one wanted to be released! They are hiding everything, even this movie!"
    [/b][/quote]

    Personally, I think it works both ways. Yes I think it will create more hype and yes themovie will be released one way or the other. I still think it will be released by Miramax and Disney will make more profit. But Disney can say to Jeb that they objected the whole thing and tried to fight it. Both will win out in the end. Disney saves face with the GOP and makes a larger profit.

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    Section - You proved my point...thanks.


    Honestly - do you think Michael Moore is a legitimate, informed, inteligent political commentator?

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    regardless of the movie marketing tactics...
    his movie claims certain FACTS:
    The Bush family does have business dealings with the BIn Laden family and does billions in businuess with saudi elite who have ties to terrorism...
    So whether you like moore or not is not the point!

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@May 10 2004, 03:02 PM
    [b] regardless of the movie marketing tactics...
    his movie claims certain FACTS:
    The Bush family does have business dealings with the BIn Laden family and does billions in businuess with saudi elite who have ties to terrorism...
    So whether you like moore or not is not the point! [/b][/quote]
    Of course they are all facts, dispassionately divulged with ample context, support, perspective, alacrity, due diligence, cross-examination, rebuttals, etc.

    He has no agenda whatsoever and none of his movies ever has. He's the real deal. He shows both sides of the story all the time and completely backs up everything he says. People have TRIED to rebut even one thing that's ever been in any of his movies and have so far had no success.

    He's so balanced that I actually didn't know if he was a conservative, moderate or liberal after seeing BFC or reading Stpid White Men. Honestly.

    I still don't even know...is he a Republican or Democrat?

    You can basically determine how intelligent someone is by simply asking them whether or not they respect Michael Moore. If they do, they are fools. If not, there is a chance that they may some day escape stupidity, and if they say, "Michael Moore...c'mon man, give me some firggin credit!" then they are possibly worthy of conversation about something other than MTV, XBOX cheat codes or Matrix movies.

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    [quote][b]Section - You proved my point...thanks.


    Honestly - do you think Michael Moore is a legitimate, informed, inteligent political commentator?
    [/b][/quote]

    He uses sensationalism a lot, but his points are valid. If you havn't seen his TV show the Awful Truth, I suggest going to the video store and renting it. It was on Bravo in 1999 and 2000. A lot of the issues he raised back then have come to fruition.

    He had a skit where he was trying to donate TVs to the Taliban saying it was morally wrong to live without TV. Although the skit was comedical it gave a look into the frightening situation in Afghanistan at the time. Another skit he transformed a gas station into "Iraqi Oil" where he charged a much lower price per gallon, the catch was customers had to donate food to Iraq. The line was around the corner and no one had a problem knowing they were buying Iraqi oil. Another skit was where he set up a MASH tent outside a hospital where they wanted to implement a "work for care" program. People could recieve medical care if they worked off their bill at the hospital. Another skit had a race of Gulf War Syndrone participants.

    All I'm saying is give it a try, you can disagree with the message, but they are hysterical. His methods may not be scientific and mythodical, but a lot of people respond better to comedy vs some crusty old farts yelling at each other.

  10. #10
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    im not a big fan of his either, but alot of the s**t he does is funny and it brings things to light that wouldn't normally be...

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    I just love how Disney tries to make themselves out to be this innocent, family based corportation when they really aren't. They give these false images to the public and its really sad.

    A good documentary about them is called "Mickey Mouse Monopoly," if you get a chance check it out.

    There is also an interesting article written by I believe Janet Wasco called "Understanding the Disney Universe."

    All these things really change your view on Disney if they were positive

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    and guess what they still swindle millions a day out of stupid people...

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    Nobody in Hollywood wanted to distribute "The Passion". So Gibson was forced to sell it himself. He probably wasn't overjoyed that he had to go that route rather than using the usual ready-made channels.

    In the end, he made a killing. And Hollywood is probably more mad about that than any religious issues.

    Eisner may not be a nice man. But in this instance, his first priority is to his stockholders. And given the bruising fight he is going through against Disney relatives for control of the company, fighting for Michael Moore's latest dreck was a fight that would've wasted time and capital.

    Moore is using this whole thing to promote his awful movie. As Eisner rightly points out, Disney isn't government; it's a corporation which made a decision that not getting in business with Moore was their best course of action.

    Moore is free to get someone else to distribute his film, or to do so himself. Hey, ask the New York Times Company to distribute this junk if it's such an important film. Stamping you feet that a major corporation doesn't want to do business with you because you piss off a good chunk of movie and theme park fans is utterly pointless. Disney's stockholders shouldn't be forced to watch their stock value decline and corporate assets be devalued so a jackass can insult politicians.

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    i believe he can do it if they want...and if he wants to stomp his feet he can go ahead and do so...he may get his way and he may not...buyt who really cares? if you don't like him or his movies don't watch them...

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    And on this, if I send a movie to Disney and they dont want to produce it, would it matter if I complained? Or all the million of screewriters who send stuff to Disney and get shut down, do they have a right to ***** all the time?

    I understand the circumstances are a bit different than that, but the point is Disney doesnt have to make any movie they choose not to. It is just like them rejecting a crappy movie because it would tarnish their image, they are doing essentially the same thing here.

    Its not like nobody will buy Moore's movie and Disney was the only outlet for it...it will be picked up, and we will all be able to see it...if we want to.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@May 10 2004, 02:56 PM
    [b] Moore [b]loves[/b] this. He WANTS this. This movie will get released and distributed, just like 'Dogma' did. Now Moore can run around saying things like, 'It's movie the powers that be don't want you to see!" "Come see the movie that no one wanted to be released! They are hiding everything, even this movie!"

    Such self-congratulatory nonsense.

    He is a demonstrable liar and polemic hack. He's Ann Coulter with a video camera. Idiots like you are making him a very rich man. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

    He's full of sh*t and anyone who takes him seriously is simply not a serious person. That's just the way 'tis. I don't take Rush or Coulter seriously. They are polemic hacks who have made millions being that way. Ditto for Moore.

    I can't wait for the liberals to wage a jihad against McDonald's after this absurd "Super Size Me" movie is released. The press is already tripping over themselves to fawn all over this guy.

    We are all children. We need people like Moore and Democrats to protect us! Self-determination be damned! I want to be coddled...hey, if ain't on my dime, why not! Let's get made at 'the rich" and the 'corporations' who provide more jobs and more tax revenue (i.e. services to the poor) than anyone else. And when a company like Wal-Mart provides products at low prices, let's demagogue them!

    The GOP and Bush piss me off to no end, they do. But, DAMN, Democrats piss me off a lot more. At least the GOP doesn't tax me more to buy votes by using rhetoric that implies that I am the reason for all of the ills in the world. [/b][/quote]
    5ever....I think you are soo right on the money man. In a way I feel he was hoping for this all along as it gave him another opportunity to bash the Bush family (who he seems to have a thing for).

    Why else would Fat Bastard pursue what was known to be a dead end for almost a year?....unless of course he thinks he is the end all and people will capitulate to him.

    Oh...of course the increased exposure his film will get won't hurt either which just proves what a larger fraud he is as were there any merits to the piece of garbage he produced it would stand on its' own without the need for added hype.

  17. #17
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    well...without any hype no one would know about the film...so no...you are wrong about that...some of the best movies every made have gone under the radar because of no hype...

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@May 10 2004, 03:07 PM
    [b] You can basically determine how intelligent someone is by simply asking them whether or not they respect Michael Moore. [/b][/quote]
    The same rule applies to Rush Limbaugh.

    You, 5ever, pass that test. A couple of the participants in this forum don't come close.

    For the record, I think Moore is hilarious, and I get a kick out of the trouble he stirs up. He's hardly a news source, however.

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    [quote][b]Eisner may not be a nice man. But in this instance, his first priority is to his stockholders. And given the bruising fight he is going through against Disney relatives for control of the company, fighting for Michael Moore's latest dreck was a fight that would've wasted time and capital.

    Moore is using this whole thing to promote his awful movie. As Eisner rightly points out, Disney isn't government; it's a corporation which made a decision that not getting in business with Moore was their best course of action.

    Moore is free to get someone else to distribute his film, or to do so himself. Hey, ask the New York Times Company to distribute this junk if it's such an important film. Stamping you feet that a major corporation doesn't want to do business with you because you piss off a good chunk of movie and theme park fans is utterly pointless. Disney's stockholders shouldn't be forced to watch their stock value decline and corporate assets be devalued so a jackass can insult politicians.
    [/b][/quote]

    That is all true, but Miramax did sign onto the movie and they have already shelled out 6 Million for the production costs. Disney should have told Miramax they were going to exercise their moral superiority before they even signed on. Under the contract they are not allowed to back out except in a few circumstances such as the film gets an NC-17 rating. Their argument is that Disney doesn't support non-family entertainment and shys away from political material, yet there current #1 grossing movie is Kill Bill Volume2 and WABC produces Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh's radio shows.

  20. #20
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@May 11 2004, 12:41 PM
    [b]
    That is all true, but Miramax did sign onto the movie and they have already shelled out 6 Million for the production costs. Disney should have told Miramax they were going to exercise their moral superiority before they even signed on. Under the contract they are not allowed to back out except in a few circumstances such as the film gets an NC-17 rating. Their argument is that Disney doesn't support non-family entertainment and shys away from political material, yet there current #1 grossing movie is Kill Bill Volume2 and WABC produces Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh's radio shows. [/b][/quote]
    Even though Disney makes it a secret to the majority of the public, if you do research you know that Disney is the furthest thing from wholesome, family entertainment. Although it is extremely hypocritical for them not to take on Moore but to produce Kill Bill and such, it is still their choice.

    I think the bigger issue is that they claim they are this family corporation...when in fact they are not.

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