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Thread: in case anyone cares

  1. #1
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    DEATHS (NOT WOUNDED) in IRAQ since start of war:

    US Military
    772

    US miltary suicides
    31

    IRAQUI CIVILIANS
    10,914

    IRAQUI MILITARY,
    5,000


    COST IN DOLLARS
    Cost of the War in Iraq
    $113,267,233,874

  2. #2
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@May 10 2004, 03:50 PM
    [b] DEATHS (NOT WOUNDED) in IRAQ since start of war:

    IRAQUI CIVILIANS
    10,914

    IRAQUI MILITARY,
    5,000


    [/b][/quote]
    We all knew going in there would be some collateral damage. whats your point?

  3. #3
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@May 10 2004, 03:50 PM
    [b] DEATHS (NOT WOUNDED) in IRAQ since start of war:

    US Military
    772

    US miltary suicides
    31

    [/b][/quote]
    I always hate to see American Lives lost. My sympathies go out to all their families.

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    my point is what an absolute waste of life and money..all so Bush can claim to have actually done something with his presidency...and so some american companies can invest in iraqui oil...

    You think this will just go away..The pentagon plans on putting two permanent bases in Iraq..do they realize it's NOT OUr COUNTRY!

    All this will do is create more and more and more hatred towards the US...
    we had the world on our side..the world was coming together and going after qeada...
    then Bush gets ambitious..turns the world against us and invades a country that hadn't made an aggressive move in a decade!..

    MY Point is what an utter disaster these war mongers are..f**k em all I hope they all die and go to the HELL that BusH believes in..B/C they are all the same to me..The Bushes, Bin Ladens, Husseins...

    it's the poor people getting killed just so the rich people who control them can get even more power..The enemy of those US soldiers over there in iraq is NOT the 19 year old poor Iraqui kid with a gun..it's those ****ers who tell him to go and shoot those iraqui kids....

    You think any of our soldiers will come home and see some of that OIL money that Cheney will get...NO, all he'll have is the memories of utter hell..

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    We have bases all over the world, Germany, Okinowa, Cuba, Saudi Arabia... I'm not surprised by this.

  6. #6
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    that's why we are an empire

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    yeah...that just shows how we try to police the world...a world in which most don't want to be policed by us...

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    [quote][b]We all knew going in there would be some collateral damage. whats your point? [/b][/quote]

    Sorry, but 10,000+ Non-Combatant Civillian Deaths is NOT what I would call "Collateral Damage".

    Lets turn it around. Say Iraqi loyalists are able to bring a nuke into the USA and detonate it, killing 10,000+ American civillians. Would THAT also be Collateral Damage? Something we "knew" could happen (This IS War, after all) going in, so it's ok?

    And just to beat you to the point: Iraq has not be proven to have ANY connection to the 9/11 assults. So please, don't even try to go down that road. Sadam supported terrorism in general, as does China, North Korea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and about forty other nations.

    We Americans are the bravest people on Earth......because we know no nation can really attack or kill our civillians. 3K on 9/11 was horrendous and a crime and deserves vengence. But it's chump change to the number of civillians the US kills with abandon. Difference is, those dead civillians aren't red, white and blue Americans.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@May 10 2004, 05:53 PM
    [b] [quote][b]We all knew going in there would be some collateral damage. whats your point? [/b][/quote]

    Sorry, but 10,000+ Non-Combatant Civillian Deaths is NOT what I would call "Collateral Damage".

    Lets turn it around. Say Iraqi loyalists are able to bring a nuke into the USA and detonate it, killing 10,000+ American civillians. Would THAT also be Collateral Damage? Something we "knew" could happen (This IS War, after all) going in, so it's ok?

    And just to beat you to the point: Iraq has not be proven to have ANY connection to the 9/11 assults. So please, don't even try to go down that road. Sadam supported terrorism in general, as does China, North Korea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and about forty other nations.

    We Americans are the bravest people on Earth......because we know no nation can really attack or kill our civillians. 3K on 9/11 was horrendous and a crime and deserves vengence. But it's chump change to the number of civillians the US kills with abandon. Difference is, those dead civillians aren't red, white and blue Americans. [/b][/quote]
    warfish, while I agree with your sentiments, this doesn't sound like the same you who started a thread (a good topic too by the way)stating you are for the war in Iraq. just curious

  10. #10
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    [quote][b]warfish, while I agree with your sentiments, this doesn't sound like the same you who started a thread (a good topic too by the way)stating you are for the war in Iraq. just curious [/b][/quote]

    Ahhh, but it does! I AM for the war, the purpose of which was supposed to be to remove Saddam from Power, find his WMD, free the innocent civillions of Iraq and form a new, democracy based goverment.

    So far, all we have done is remove Saddam and kill ten thousand civillians. No WMD, No Free Citizenry (yet), No Democracy (yet). Not good in my book, because killing so many civillians hurts these OTHER goals we set as reasons for having the war in the first place.

    I understand civillian casualties are a part of every war. I am not stupid enough to think otherwise.

    However, while I agree that the war IS needed and appropriate (if the reasons given are the real reasons, which I have some reasonable doubts), I will NOT brush aside the deaths of 10,000 people simply because they had the poor fortune to be born in Iraq....and too weak to fight off Saddam's death squads themselves.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@May 10 2004, 07:11 PM
    [b] [quote][b]warfish, while I agree with your sentiments, this doesn't sound like the same you who started a thread (a good topic too by the way)stating you are for the war in Iraq. just curious [/b][/quote]

    Ahhh, but it does! I AM for the war, the purpose of which was supposed to be to remove Saddam from Power, find his WMD, free the innocent civillions of Iraq and form a new, democracy based goverment.

    So far, all we have done is remove Saddam and kill ten thousand civillians. No WMD, No Free Citizenry (yet), No Democracy (yet). Not good in my book, because killing so many civillians hurts these OTHER goals we set as reasons for having the war in the first place.

    I understand civillian casualties are a part of every war. I am not stupid enough to think otherwise.

    However, while I agree that the war IS needed and appropriate (if the reasons given are the real reasons, which I have some reasonable doubts), I will NOT brush aside the deaths of 10,000 people simply because they had the poor fortune to be born in Iraq....and too weak to fight off Saddam's death squads themselves. [/b][/quote]
    So you expected all that within a year? :lol:

    Nothing like being realistic.

  12. #12
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    anyone who thinks democracy is going to stay there is just ****ing stupid...

  13. #13
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    Is it unrealistic to think the Greatest Millitary Force in the history of the world could handle the job of invading and controling a millitarily weak country as big as the state of Texas, with a civilian population at least 75% in favor of our liberation of them?

    Fact is, our leadership (boith sides) has been, and continues to be, half-assing it in Iraq. We have the power to do what needs to be done, but we lack the political will to wield such power. And therefore, more Iraqi civilians die, more Americans die as time goes by, and our goals moive fartehr and fartehr from reality.

    Done correctly, with massive on-ground troop force and less reliance of "kil ya (and eveyone near you) from 500 miles away" weapons, the goals stated could have been close to finished today.

    Yes, more American troops would have died using such tactics, and that would suck (alot). But if our motives are as golden as our leaders claim (Liberation, finding WMD's to protect USA, Establishing Democracy) then the cost would have been worth it.

    Massive force allows you to capture and kill all those who resist, before they have a chance to regroup, or hide, or capture a whole damn city.

    The second mistake is using combat soldiers as policemen. The US, if it want's to continue as "World Cop", needs to have a Force capable of handing security/police duties in conquered/liberated nation-states. The US millitary, for all is massive power, is simply not trained or suited for fighting against an uncivil populace, guerilla attacks or keeping the peace. A seperate branch of the Millitary would need to be specifically vreated and trained to handle such duties.

    I have issues with the USA as "Moral Compass and World Cop", but if we ARE going to do it (as we have now for over 50 years), then we damn sure better do it right.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@May 10 2004, 07:24 PM
    [b] Is it unrealistic to think the Greatest Millitary Force in the history of the world could handle the job of invading and controling a millitarily weak country as big as the state of Texas, with a civilian population at least 75% in favor of our liberation of them?

    Fact is, our leadership (boith sides) has been, and continues to be, half-assing it in Iraq. We have the power to do what needs to be done, but we lack the political will to wield such power. And therefore, more Iraqi civilians die, more Americans die as time goes by, and our goals moive fartehr and fartehr from reality.

    Done correctly, with massive on-ground troop force and less reliance of "kil ya (and eveyone near you) from 500 miles away" weapons, the goals stated could have been close to finished today.

    Yes, more American troops would have died using such tactics, and that would suck (alot). But if our motives are as golden as our leaders claim (Liberation, finding WMD's to protect USA, Establishing Democracy) then the cost would have been worth it.

    Massive force allows you to capture and kill all those who resist, before they have a chance to regroup, or hide, or capture a whole damn city.

    The second mistake is using combat soldiers as policemen. The US, if it want's to continue as "World Cop", needs to have a Force capable of handing security/police duties in conquered/liberated nation-states. The US millitary, for all is massive power, is simply not trained or suited for fighting against an uncivil populace, guerilla attacks or keeping the peace. A seperate branch of the Millitary would need to be specifically vreated and trained to handle such duties.

    I have issues with the USA as "Moral Compass and World Cop", but if we ARE going to do it (as we have now for over 50 years), then we damn sure better do it right. [/b][/quote]
    For you to think there would be a thriving democracy in Iraq within a year is just absurd and I'll leave it at that.

  15. #15
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    Of course it's absured pope! It goes against your beliefs! How could it NOT be absured, right?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@May 10 2004, 10:17 PM
    [b] Of course it's absured pope! It goes against your beliefs! How could it NOT be absured, right? [/b][/quote]
    How long did it take Japan?

    How long did it take Germany?

    :lol: History will prove you're delirious but don't let logic get in the way of your moderate eeeerrrr I mean liberal agenda.

  17. #17
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    there WILL NEVER BE A DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ...THE US DOES NOT INTEND TO ALLOW A DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ...There will be a puppet us gov't...
    what is a democracy? A democracy is an ELECTED gov't...
    60% of Iraquis are shiites!
    do you know what kind of gov't shiites want!
    It aint the kind we want them to have!

    THE US ADMINISTRATION IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!!And a lot of you suckers bought it!

    "to the iraui people, your day of liberation is near!"


    That's what George Bush said right before we bombed bagdad!

    DO NOT BELIEVE THE LIES...IF ALL IRAQUI PEOPLE COULD VOTE..SADR WOULD WIN A MAJORITY...BUSH DIDN"T EVEN DO THAT!

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