Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 52

Thread: A Question on Islam

  1. #1
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,987
    Post Thanks / Like
    We have been repeatedly told by the media that Islam is a "religion of peace". We are told that the treachery, murder, and diabolical terrorist plots are all the acts of a few radicals on the fringe with warped and distorted interpretations of the Quran. We have heard political and religious leaders of every ilk condeming the use of terrorism and the murder of innocent civilians...

    So why haven't we heard an outcry from the moderates Muslims? Where is the passion? Where are the people in the streets bouncing up and down and chanting anti-terror slogans? Where is the outpouring of emotion that we see every night at 6:00 pm? Nothing. Mum. These "radicals" who proudly perform televised tortures and murders are tarnishing the world view of Islam...and nothing is said. These terrorist groups cry for jihad as clerics release fatwahs calliing for the death of all infidels...and the moderate Muslim's whose very religion is alledgedly being bastardized sit on their hands.

    Even the most red-blooded, flag-waving, Bud drinking American will recognize and acknowledge that the treatment Iraqi prisoners was wrong...and that more resembled a fraternity hazing prank than torture...meanwhile, representatives of the Islamic religion are decapitating living humans as they scream and wallow in agony...and all we hear from moderate Muslims is reports that cases of harrasment of quicky-mart clerks are up in the US.

    I'm starting to wonder how opposed the views of the Islamic radicals really are from the "moderate".

  2. #2
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,349
    Post Thanks / Like
    good post.

    these people are all the same.

    seriously

  3. #3
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,142
    Post Thanks / Like
    Think the U.S has a problem with this? France and Holland may be where future battles are located.

    You see, our friends on the left have for years and years advocated that Western Countries accept anyone and everyone who traverses a border. In places like France and Hollland, the natives of those countries are having, maybe, one child per family. Meanwhile, our "peaceful" friends from the ME are heading to these nations and pumping out 8-10 kids per.

    Perhaps they are getting ready for the takeover?

    Actually, I have no real answer to your actual question. I would suggest, however, these people aren't as "peaceful" as they claim :rolleyes:

    Was watching French news yesterday (reading subtitles) and saw the French homo's have already handed their country over to the Muslim's pretty much (catering to their every whim).

    Just thought I'd give JI posters something to think about: At somepoint, the war against Islamic terrorists may one day be waged in majority ISLAMIC Holland and France :o :huh: :blink:

  4. #4
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,349
    Post Thanks / Like
    i dont think anyone would be mad if someone just lifted France off of the face of the Earth.

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    Even arabs that are Holocaust-deniers are described as "moderates" by the western media.

    Terrorists are described as "insurgents" or "militants" or "spiritual leaders" or even, my personal favorite, "sympathizers."

    The King of Jordan is a Holocaust-denier who has spoken openly , recently and publicly about "beating the Jews into submission." And yet, he is a "moderate."

    The original Palestinian Prime Minister who succeeded Arafat earlier in 2003 wrote his THESIS on the "fact" that the Holocaust never happened. Yet, he was the "more moderate" leader. The Western medis has no problem about atrocites, unless they are committed by Christians (preferrably white and American ones) against Muslims or blacks or those with darker skin. When Mulsim arabs butcher blacks, as in the Sudan, no one says peep. When Milosevic butchers Europeans, no on says peep. When China butchers the people of Tibet, Kofi Annan stays mute. When the people of Rwanda get butchered, they stay mute. Yes, the USA does to, but the the USA doen't lecture the rest of the world about "imperialism" or "unilateralism" when the rest of ther world tries to save these helpless people...oh, right, I forgot, the rest of the world never does that. We went into Rwanda, Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, Somalia...and depening on the time or circumstance, we are decried as "imperialists" and "isolationists." In fact, a strange confluence of events occurred recently in which Annan blamed us for not intervening and bringing troops into a sovreign nation (Haiti) while they were blaming us for doing exactly the opposite (Iraq).

    When Muslims explode nail-laden bombs into cafes, ripping apart Israeli women and babies, the UN writes resolution after resoltuion condemning the inevitable Israeli relatiation. The UN has passed dozens of resolutions condemning Israel and NOT EVEN A SINGLE ONE condemning homicide bombings by arabs. They won't say anything whatsoever about the awful violations of the Geneva convention by AQ, most recently and gruesomely to Mr. Berg. No, they'd rather lecture us about "unilateralism" and sit back and profit from the Oil for Food scandal in which they further inpoverished the very people they tried to stop us from freeing!

    "International opinion" is often moronic and not on the level. 'Moderate' muslims may exist, but they are certainly not in positions of power in the ME.

  6. #6
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,656
    Post Thanks / Like
    Riggins, a follow up on your post:

    'Europe becomes more and more a province of Islam, a colony of Islam." So declares Oriana Fallaci in her new book, La Forza della Ragione ("The Force of Reason"). And the famed Italian journalist is right: Christianity's ancient stronghold of Europe is rapidly giving way to Islam. Two factors mainly contribute to this world-shaking development:

    Advertisement


    The hollowing out of Christianity. Europe is increasingly a post-Christian society, one with a diminishing connection to its tradition or its historic values. The number of believing, observant Christians has collapsed in the past two generations to the point that some observers call Europe the "new dark continent."

    Already, analysts estimate Britain's mosques host more worshipers each week than does the Church of England.

    An anemic birthrate. Indigenous Europeans are dying out. Sustaining a population requires each woman on average to bear 2.1 children; in the European Union, the overall rate is one-third short, at 1.5 per woman, and falling.

    One study finds that should current population trends continue and immigration cease, today's population of 375 million could decline to 275 million by 2075. To keep its working population even, the EU needs 1.6 million immigrants a year; to sustain the present workers-to-retirees ratio requires an astonishing 13.5 million immigrants annually.

    Into the void are coming Islam and Muslims. As Christianity falters, Islam is robust, assertive, and ambitious. As Europeans under-reproduce at advanced ages, Muslims do so in large numbers while young.

    Some 5% of the EU, or nearly 20 million persons, presently identify themselves as Muslims; should current trends continue that number will reach 10% by 2020. If non-Muslims flee the new Islamic order, as seems likely, the continent could be majority-Muslim within decades.

    When that happens, grand cathedrals will appear as vestiges of a prior civilization at least until a Saudi-style regime transforms them into mosques or a Taliban-like regime blows them up. The great national cultures Italian, French, English, and others will likely wither, replaced by a new transnational Muslim identity that merges North African, Turkish, subcontinental, and other elements.

    This prediction is hardly new. In 1968, British politician Enoch Powell gave his famed "rivers of blood" speech in which he warned that in allowing excessive immigration the United Kingdom was "heaping up its own funeral pyre." (Those words stalled a hitherto promising career.) In 1973, the French writer Jean Raspail published Camp of the Saints, a novel that portrays Europe falling to massive, uncontrolled immigration from the Indian subcontinent.

    The peaceable transformation of a region from one major civilization to another, now underway, has no precedent in human history, making it easy to ignore such voices.

    There is still a chance for the transformation not to play itself out, but the prospects diminish with time. Here are several possible ways it might be stopped:

    Changes in Europe that lead to a resurgence of Christian faith, an increase in childbearing, or the cultural assimilation of immigrants; such developments can theoretically occur, but what would cause them is hard to imagine.

    Muslim modernization: For reasons no one has quite figured out (education of women? abortion on demand? adults too self-absorbed to have children?), modernity leads to a drastic reduction in the birthrate. Also, were the Muslim world to modernize, the attraction of moving to Europe would diminish.

    Immigration from other sources. Latin Americans, being Christian, would more or less permit Europe to keep its historic identity. Hindus and Chinese would increase the diversity of cultures, making it less likely that Islam would dominate.

    Current trends suggest Islamization will happen, for Europeans seem to find it too strenuous to have children, stop illegal immigration, or even diversify their sources of immigrants. Instead, they prefer to settle unhappily into civilizational senility.

    Europe has simultaneously reached unprecedented heights of prosperity and peacefulness and shown a unique inability to sustain itself (one demographer, Wolfgang Lutz, notes that "Negative momentum has not been experienced on a large scale in world history").

    Is it inevitable that the most brilliantly successful society will also be the first in danger of collapse due to a lack of cultural confidence and offspring?

    Ironically, creating a hugely desirable place to live would also seem to be a recipe for suicide. The human comedy continues.

    The writer is director of the Middle East Forum and author of Miniatures (Transaction).

  7. #7
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,184
    Post Thanks / Like
    the problem with Isalm is this...
    In christianity we have leaders (pope whatever)..I don't care for any bs religion...But we have a hierachy...

    Islam has no hierchy of authority...You have the Koran..and just like the bible you have many many interpretations of it...So you Bin Laden running around claiming authority...Then you have the madrassa (schools) in Saudi Arabia and pakistan which teach kids that any non muslim is an infidel...They even teach that any non STRICT Muslim is an infidel...Then you have moderate muslims (EVEN SADDAM))..who kept reigion outside the realm of poltics...
    The Problem is, is that ISLAM has no leaders and no set rules... !),

    Basically the qeada guys aregue against a separtion of church and state..
    basically Islam aint going anywhwre..there's a billion of them...
    it's a problem..and it's a problem that most muslims are pussies and afraid to stand up to the people who have hijacked it..

  8. #8
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    3,408
    Post Thanks / Like
    I spoke with my friend over in Oman a few weeks ago, and he said the people there are against the War, but they are horrified by the atrocoties being commited by the militants. They were most pissed off about the Jessica Lynch thing, at the time though these recents acts hadn't taken place. I'm sure they are just as mortified now.

  9. #9
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,184
    Post Thanks / Like
    why do you hate france?!
    They were one of the few countrys to stand up to Bush and not just say "OK" to a bs war..

  10. #10
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,142
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yep, France bashing may be comical to some, on the surface. However, when you really think about, the prospect of an Islamic take over (or at least strong influence) should leave American quaking in their collective boots :o

    Problems seem to be very severe in France and Holland. Like the U.S, the people don't want this kind of "anarachy" in their countires. However, like us, sleezeball politicians continue to allow this to get of hand for selfish reasons (gaining votes; cheap labor, ect.).

    Terrible prospects that are in no way a joking matter.

    As gay as France may be, it's an anchor Western Country. If Islamists take over, the world becomes much, much more dangerous.

    You see, these hateful Islamist's are using these warped notions of political correctness (espoused by Western powers) to eventually garner greater and greater influence.

    Sound familar?

  11. #11
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Westchester County, NY
    Posts
    3,477
    Post Thanks / Like
    Agree. Even locally, the so-called community Islamic leaders pretty much give the radicals a slap on the wrist while saying 'this is not the true Muslim religion' or they just look the other way, don't get involved. They are more vocal and protest when Muslims are so much as given a dirty look in the neighborhood, then they cry to the press. Or even in France when they said they would ban the head-dress in schools, the Muslim community there had a fit but I don't hear that much energy being put into condemning the so-called radical Muslims.

    They should have used better judgement, but what some U.S. soldiers did to the Iraq prisoners, was to humiliate them (deservedly so) it wasn't torture, it was retaliation and it doesn't compare to any of the monstrosities Muslims have committed all over the world.

  12. #12
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,142
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@May 12 2004, 12:10 PM
    [b] Agree. Even locally, the so-called community Islamic leaders pretty much give the radicals a slap on the wrist while saying 'this is not the true Muslim religion' or they just look the other way, don't get involved. They are more vocal and protest when Muslims are so much as given a dirty look in the neighborhood, then they cry to the press. Or even in France when they said they would ban the head-dress in schools, the Muslim community there had a fit but I don't hear that much energy being put into condemning the so-called radical Muslims.

    They should have used better judgement, but what some U.S. soldiers did to the Iraq prisoners, was to humiliate them (deservedly so) it wasn't torture, it was retaliation and it doesn't compare to any of the monstrosities Muslims have committed all over the world. [/b][/quote]
    R.T, once again, I need not write anymore, because you put it so well!

    You are 100 percent correct. While breifly watching the French news, I was thinking, perhaps, we'd see Muslim/ Islamic leaders heavily denounce the sensless slaughter of a human being in the name revenge or Islam.

    Instead, they were complaining about the need for more Islamic prayers in the French schools and pansy French were going out of their way to pacify these clowns :o

    The U.S, France and all the industrialized nations need to stop making excuses, in the name of political correctness, for those with nafarious purposes.

  13. #13
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,656
    Post Thanks / Like
    The muslims are currently engaged in a multipronged attack to Islamicise the world. It is allready happening to a large extent in europe.

  14. #14
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn/Austin
    Posts
    2,712
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@May 12 2004, 11:04 AM
    [b] why do you hate france?!
    They were one of the few countrys to stand up to Bush and not just say "OK" to a bs war.. [/b][/quote]
    The reason France is pissed at Bush is because he broke up their little relationship with Saddam. You want to talk about the US fighting for oil, how about France, along with other countries, paying Saddam under the table for premiums on oil.

    France is not against the war for moral reasons, but because Bush caught their hand in the cookie jar.

  15. #15
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn/Austin
    Posts
    2,712
    Post Thanks / Like
    Also guys, try not to tie all Muslims with the violent ones. There are a lot of very peaceful Muslims who keep getting tied together with the ones who killed Berg and such.

    There a good amount of evil Muslims over in the ME, but there are also a lot of very peaceful Muslims who understand their faith and knows it doesnt include violence.

    And for the first time bmann, you make a good point about the leader. They dont have the hierarchial figure like most religions have, so it is difficult for them to truly understand the context of their faith.

  16. #16
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenwich Village, NY
    Posts
    2,241
    Post Thanks / Like
    Buff,

    I would recommend reading The Crisis of Islam by Bernard Lewis. I learned a lot about Islam reading it.

    [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679642811/qid=1084387000/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-9519738-0806522]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/067...9519738-0806522[/url]

  17. #17
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,987
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TheBrodyMan[/i]@May 12 2004, 01:42 PM
    [b]

    And for the first time bmann, you make a good point about the leader. They dont have the hierarchial figure like most religions have, so it is difficult for them to truly understand the context of their faith. [/b][/quote]
    Which is a potently dangerous combination when there is such intimate tangling of religion and politics.

  18. #18
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,112
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TheBrodyMan[/i]@May 12 2004, 01:42 PM
    [b] Also guys, try not to tie all Muslims with the violent ones. There are a lot of very peaceful Muslims who keep getting tied together with the ones who killed Berg and such.

    There a good amount of evil Muslims over in the ME, but there are also a lot of very peaceful Muslims who understand their faith and knows it doesnt include violence.

    And for the first time bmann, you make a good point about the leader. They dont have the hierarchial figure like most religions have, so it is difficult for them to truly understand the context of their faith. [/b][/quote]
    I don't think this thread is tying in the moderate muslims with the radicals, but is wondering why there is no voice whatsoever from the moderates denouncing the radical atrocities

  19. #19
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,184
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just a little history about Saddam and oil...
    YES FRance was going to score big from Saddam oil contracts..So was Russia..SO BIg that people like cheney wanted saddam ousted years agao...
    But Cheney was also making millions off of ILLEGAL dealings with Saddam during the 90's!


    Cheney (just like saddam advocates war for oil..)

    The raeson there was an 8 year war with iran/iraq is b/c saddam attacked a border town of Iran where a HUGE oil field was housed..He also attacked Kuwait for oil!

    it's unbelievable what that black blood will make people do!

  20. #20
    Hall Of Fame
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    10,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    If the war were for oil, then why do the gas prices keep rising??

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us