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Thread: A Question on Islam

  1. #41
    [quote][b]Islam is a "religion of peace". [/b][/quote]

    There is no such thing as a "Religion of Peace". ALL of the three main organized religions have very bloody pasts, full of murder, rape, torture, corruption and outright evil.

    Islam is simply todays evil organized religions. Christianity has a great history of persecution and murder, Judasim is not without it's own bloody past as well.

    The "Holy" texts of the three religions (Old Testament Bible, Old/New testament Bible andthe Koran) all have sections and teaching your average modern man would find appalling. Like stoning your children to death if they disobay you (bible), or stoning your wife to death of she cheats on you (also the bible). And of course, killing or converting those who belive in another God.

    The problem, as I see it, with organized religion is MAN. Man is inherantly corrupt. Man simply cannot handle power or wealth without letting it take him and change him, almost always for the worse. And religious power, like wealth or political power, gives you sway over so many of your fellow man. People who will follow you and your word blindly, because you are a "Priest", a "Walthy Man of Influence" or a "Leader".....

    And of course, Man hates it when other Men disagree with him. Hence, we get religious intolerance, and outright religious genocide, throughout history. The peaceful aspects of ALL religions becomes negotiable in the face of challenge, in the face of the "threat" of another religion.

    Someone in another thread attacked Islam because the majority of millitary actions on Earth today involve Muslim peoples. Well, look back to your own religious past, and you will find times where every war on Earth involves Christianity, or Judasim, or other, more minor faiths.

    For all the good done by the good men and women in the Organized Religions over time, as many evil and horrible deeds have also been done.

    This is not a defence of Isalm. It is an indictment of Man, and the so-called peaceful "Gods" of hate, intolenence, jealousy, powerlust and corruption he chooses to worship.

  2. #42
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    The Rollers rule!

    [img]http://www.musicposters.bz/item_img/B/2/B-24409.jpg[/img]

  3. #43
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jet Moses[/i]@May 14 2004, 10:19 PM
    [b] The Rollers rule!

    [img]http://www.musicposters.bz/item_img/B/2/B-24409.jpg[/img] [/b][/quote]
    Jet Moses.....you crack me up dude!

    S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y.....Night!

  4. #44
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Boozer76[/i]@May 14 2004, 01:15 PM
    [b] But in this case I worry. In my lifetime I have never seen any religious faction commit such violent atrocities while praising their god. Every suicide bomber is screaming Allahu Akbar prior to murdering dozens of people. All of the 9-11 terrorists were screaming the same as they murdered thousands. As Nick Berg's head was being sliced off, you heard chants over and over, Allahu Akbar. These people commit these atrocities in the name of their god, and generally we see fellow mulim citizens cheering on the streets when they do this. So it makes us wonder, do Muslims really denounce these acts? Or is it the just a minority of Muslims who denounce it.

    You have to understand outsider, we see what is going on and we form our judgements on it. When we see a group of Arabs on TV cheering when a violent act is commited vs the US, we assume it is the general concensus of the public there. People like you come in and say "No, that is a video of a very small group, it does not represent the mindset of the whole". Then when thousands of Americans die as a result of a terrorist act, we see video of entire Arab major citis celebrating exhuberantly. Again, some like yourself say that is discretionary video tping, that it really wasn't the whole population. Naturally we are very skeptical.

    There is no explanation being given to us about the Muslim religion or the Quran. IF a Catholic ran around killing muslims in the name of Christ, the Christian public would denounce it. If the Muslims demanded an explanation of the intentions of Catholocism, you would here us proclaim that Jesus teaches us to love our neighbors. He teaches us to even love those who commit harm on us. He teaches us to help sinners to not sin and help them in their quest to find god. And if they choose not to find god, we are taught to pray for the sinner and love him anyway.

    Muslims have said nothing more than "Islam does not condone violence". Well that's great, but right now I see alot of horrible acts being commited in the name of Allah, but even worse is I see alot of support for it. So please, try if you can to eplain the Quran in layman's terms and what it asks of Muslims to do in leading their lives. How does it say to treat non-believers. How does it say to treat sinners? I ask this seriously and with no malicious intent. I just am curious to hear it. [/b][/quote]
    Excellent post Boozer76.

    I'd like to hear a good response from any Muslim on that also-- and not excuses or long diatribes or rhetoric, or pointing the finger at anyone else, etc. In what way is Islam good? what does it teach about how to treat your neighbor? How have Muslims contributed to helping those less fortunate? We all know how Christianity has excelled in those areas.

    You can blame the press or media all you want, but the media did not come up with referring to jihads as holy wars instead of inner struggles... nor did they 'make up' stories that Muslims blow themselves up so they can have how-many-virgins? in the afterlife (this is the great "attainment", the great "enlightenment"?)....this all came from Muslims not the boogie-man west world.

  5. #45
    5ever, Arab/ Muslim leadership or lack there of is the responsibility for the state of most Arab nations in the ME. However, the ones that are thriving are Turkey and The Arab Emirates. Coincidentally, Turkey and the Arab Emirates have had their sovereignty and done it their way without outside interference. They don't screw around with terrorists and make examples of them immediately. They have built economies and industries successfully because they have adopted many of the free trade and free speech idealogies of the west. 5ever, the end result is no fascism as those countries have been allowed to accept responsibility for their own well being and have thrived!

    Some of the other countries such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have been ruled by fat ass royal families. Coincedentally the leaders of those countries have had the support of our armed forces and CIA as ordered by Washington to keep them in power. Plenty of fascism there and little or no western idealogies! Coincidentally, the 9-11 terrorists came from Saudi and Kuwait. They did what they thought they needed to do. WE All KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AND IT WAS WRONG.

    5ever, now I have a couple of questions for you.

    Who bears the ultimate responsibility for the for the failure to apprehend the ring leader and his fellow hijackers prior to 9-11?

    I say the morons in Washington! If these guys were just plain Arabs/Muslims then it truly would have been a sneak attack. However, the CIA and FBI knew Atta and many of his cohorts were on international terror watchlists. Yet they let them into the country and fail to apprehend them.

    Whose policies have fueled and encouraged radical Islamic terror for the past 60 years?

    I say the morons in Washington! There are no terrorists in Turkey and the United Arab Emirates. Yet the 9-11 terrorists all hailed from Kuwit and Saudi Arabia.

    I appreciate that you accept the imperfections in this country as I do. You are absolutely correct in your statement that " America wouldn't even exist in its present form if enough people who hated the structure of their society didn't do something about it." You are right "The Pilgrims didn't start bombing British cafes because of oppression. They said, "later for this popsicle stand" and took the tough, painful, and long-term steps required to create a better society."

    However, our soldiers kicked the Brits asses because we engaged in what was then considered unconventional methods of combat. The British even remarked that we were cowards because we would not fight them face to face. Warfare is warfare and people do what they think they have to do to get theirs. Especially in war!! This is not a justification of what terrorists do. They have chosen their method of combat. Whether it is for Allah or for their own freedom is another thing. The problem for all of us is that we don't know who those guys are and when they are going to carry out an attack. You don't hear suicide bombers complaining that their lives suck and asking for pity. If you do then you probably have regular conversations with Elvis or your smoking some mad weed.

    5ever I appreciate your comment about what I have gone through and what I continue to go through. I guess the good thing about it is that the s**t that I have put up with has only made me a tougher SOB mentally and physically. I think Bugg made the comment that we don't want to assimilate with the rest of the population. I guess he lives in fantasy land. I do every day. However, I know which circles I am not welcome in and I know how to handle it. I did not know how to handle the discrimination when I was a NASDAQ Market Maker. In hindsight, I know what I accomplished when given the chance for a short while. I can honestly say not bad for Goy!

    5ever, tell your dad to say hi to all of the nice inbred menches on the Citigroup trading desks for me!

    Anyway 5ever thanks for the invitation for a brew. I live in South Florida if in town let me know.

  6. #46
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@May 14 2004, 01:29 PM
    [b]
    There is no such thing as a "Religion of Peace". ALL of the three main organized religions have very bloody pasts, full of murder, rape, torture, corruption and outright evil.

    Islam is simply todays evil organized religions. Christianity has a great history of persecution and murder, Judasim is not without it's own bloody past as well.

    The "Holy" texts of the three religions (Old Testament Bible, Old/New testament Bible andthe Koran) all have sections and teaching your average modern man would find appalling. Like stoning your children to death if they disobay you (bible), or stoning your wife to death of she cheats on you (also the bible). And of course, killing or converting those who belive in another God.

    The problem, as I see it, with organized religion is MAN. Man is inherantly corrupt. Man simply cannot handle power or wealth without letting it take him and change him, almost always for the worse. And religious power, like wealth or political power, gives you sway over so many of your fellow man. People who will follow you and your word blindly, because you are a "Priest", a "Walthy Man of Influence" or a "Leader".....

    And of course, Man hates it when other Men disagree with him. Hence, we get religious intolerance, and outright religious genocide, throughout history. The peaceful aspects of ALL religions becomes negotiable in the face of challenge, in the face of the "threat" of another religion.

    Someone in another thread attacked Islam because the majority of millitary actions on Earth today involve Muslim peoples. Well, look back to your own religious past, and you will find times where every war on Earth involves Christianity, or Judasim, or other, more minor faiths.

    For all the good done by the good men and women in the Organized Religions over time, as many evil and horrible deeds have also been done.

    This is not a defence of Isalm. It is an indictment of Man, and the so-called peaceful "Gods" of hate, intolenence, jealousy, powerlust and corruption he chooses to worship. [/b][/quote]
    Well Said Warfish

  7. #47
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@May 14 2004, 01:29 PM
    [b] There is no such thing as a "Religion of Peace". ALL of the three main organized religions have very bloody pasts, full of murder, rape, torture, corruption and outright evil.

    Islam is simply todays evil organized religions. Christianity has a great history of persecution and murder, Judasim is not without it's own bloody past as well.

    Someone in another thread attacked Islam because the majority of millitary actions on Earth today involve Muslim peoples. Well, look back to your own religious past, and you will find times where every war on Earth involves Christianity, or Judasim, or other, more minor faiths.

    [/b][/quote]
    The key word in these paragraphs? PAST

    This is the 21st century. Thoughts, intelligence, practices and tolerance have evolved in major organized religions as Judaism and Catholicism as opposed to a religion that is not only determined to turn its back on modernity (the great west world) but to condemn it as evil thus justifying the murdering of infidels in the name of god.

  8. #48
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    I don't live in Fantasyland. I live in Brooklyn.And I can drive in 20 minutes to 2 enclaves-around Atlantic Ave., where Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman "instructed" the 1993 WTC bombers. OR Coney Island Avenue, where some of the 9/11 hijackers briefly lived. And in both of those places, few of the Arabs have made any attempt to fit in. His mosques are still open in both places, spreading hate of America.

    I can respect that many Arabs work their butts off in difficult jobs-gas stations, newsstands, conveneince storer-that require a lot of hard work. Maybe Outsider is an exception, or 2nd generation people may be more inclined to assimilate. I'd admit what I see is antectodal, not a scientific survey. But I don't see Arabs assimilating into American life, but setting up their own very seperate communities. You might say all immigrant groups do this to some degree. But that doesn't appear to be the case with Arabs. European immigrants of all groups have become more mainstream with each generation. And many of the insitutions they dealt with in America-churches, schools, government-were similar to the structures they left. Almost all of the social and government American insitutions are alien to anything in a Muslim country.

  9. #49
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    Yes...the religion of peace...tries to justify everything.

    Just read and watch (if you can) right here: [url=http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm]http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm[/url]

  10. #50
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@May 15 2004, 10:28 AM
    [b] Bugg, Have you gone to that Mosque? I know I would want to see for myself if I had heard that some idiot was instructing people to kill my neighbors or spreading hate in my community. I don't know if what you say is true about that Mosque and the teachings of its Imam. Is that fact as you have witnessed it first hand or is it another rumor that was spread after 9-11?

    Yes my Dad is an Engineer and my Mom was a nurse. They worked their tail off to provide for my brother and me. Their efforts alowed us to move out to Long Island and to provide me with an Ivy League level education. I worked my ass off in the classroom and at my sports. I took that same work ethic with me into the professional world. We are in no way slouches and yes we do work our asses off.

    Yet, we still receive our fair share of discrimination. Most of us work through it quietly. I on the other hand learned from my Dad not to take s**t from anyone when I was a little kid and to this day I don't take s**t from anybody.

    Finally, you bring up an interesting point about assimilation. The difference between Arab/ Muslim Americans is that our population is very small in comparison with the Europeans that had immigrated. Yeah, first generations do tend to stick together to build a base just like most of the previous groups that immigrated to America. I represent the 2nd generation in my family. Most of us 2nd generation Muslim/Arab Americans go to college and enter the professional world. We do assimilate under your radar because we are too few to really compare with other immigrant groups. However, assimilating would be easier if we were not prejudged as freaks, terrorists or towel heads etc.


    [/b][/quote]
    Bugg, Have you gone to that Mosque? I know I would want to see for myself if I had heard that some idiot was instructing people to kill my neighbors or spreading hate in my community. I don't know if what you say is true about that Mosque and the teachings of its Imam. Is that fact as you have witnessed it first hand or is it another rumor that was spread after 9-11?

    Yes my Dad is an Engineer and my Mom was a nurse. They worked their tail off to provide for me and my brother. To move out to the burbs in LI and to provide me with an Ivy League level education. I worked my ass off in the class room and at my sports. I took that same work ethic with me into the professional world. We are in no way slouches and we work our asses off. We still recieve our fair share of discrimination but we work through it. Most of us are quiet. I on the other hand learned from my Dad not to take s**t from anyone when I was a little kid and to this day I don't take s**t from anybody.

    Finally, you bring up an interesting point about assimilation. The difference between Arab/ Muslim Americans is that our population is very small in comparison with the Europeans that had immigrated. Yeah, first generations do tend to stick together to build a base just like most of the previous groups that immigrated to America. I represent the 2nd generation in my family. Most of us 2nd generationers go to college and enter the professional world. However, we are too few in comparison to other groups in this country for you or anyone else to assume that we don't want to assimilate. Perhaps, assimilating would be easier if we were not prejudged as freaks, terrorists or towel heads etc.

  11. #51
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    This is an excellent article that basically explains that the crux of the problem is Saudi/Wahhabi dominance among the US Muslim population:

    [url=http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13415]http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=13415[/url]

  12. #52
    Moses, you conveniently found an article written by a Jew.

    Wahhabi/Wahhabiism is a word made up by racist morons like the idiot who wrote that article. Since he can use the word Wahabi then I guess I can call him a filthy KIKE.

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