Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Bill Cosby slams ebonics, creates a stir....

  1. #1
    Honestly, I've never given this subject (ebonics) too much thought, but believe it might be one folks would like to discuss. I just found this article facinating, considering the source--Bill Cosby. Also, when asked to back off the words, Cosby steadfastly refused to :huh:


    [quote][b]...."Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics."

    Having accused black parents of getting their economic priorities wrong, Mr Cosby - who made his name with the 1980s sitcom, The Cosby Show - went on to attack the way many black people talk.

    "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't?' 'Where you is?' And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.

    "Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads"......[/b][/quote]



    The whole article: [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/23/wcosby23.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/23/ixworld.html]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...23/ixworld.html[/url]

  2. #2
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][b]Bill Cosby, America's most successful black comedian, horrified guests at a Washington dinner held to commemorate a landmark civil rights case by lambasting the way urban blacks live and lampooning their use of ghetto language.[/b][/quote]

    The truth hurts, especially when you get away blaming others for your problems the past fifty years.

    BTW: I've always loved Cosby's work- when I was a kid we used to listen to his albums (Why is there air?, etc) and would laugh until our stomachs hurt! His video, Bill Cosby-Himself- is classic (though now a little more subdued as in portions he pokes fun at his son, who was tragically murdered years later).

  3. #3
    what Chris Rock said about "black folks" and "niggaz" is absolutely true -

    could Cos be biting his act from a Chris Rock special? ;)

    Paul Mooney (recently through Dave Chappelle) have also had similar acts.

    Chappelle as the crackhead is some of the best stuff on TV. Highly recommended...

    ---

    AS for the issue of Black folks, they should look after their own, it's not white folks place to say the truth hurts

    there's more white trash out there than any other kind and that's a fact jack

    children are not being raised adequately in many many many situations

    too bad we are spending 100s of Billions converting Iraq into democracy.

    ("bitonti throwing more money at schools wont solve anything blah blah blah")

    bulls--t money talks and the other stuff walks. We build schools in Iraq and cut after-school programs in Philly? head start? the thing where little kids get breakfasts?

    bush screwed the urban education and infrastructure in general. Things haven't gotten better for anyone but the really really rich since he's been in power.

  4. #4
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@May 23 2004, 02:44 PM
    [b] AS for the issue of Black folks, they should look after their own, it's not white folks place to say the truth hurts

    [/b][/quote]

    That is exactly what Bill Cosby was doing yet got lambasted for doing it!

  5. #5
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Naples FL
    Posts
    44,252
    Subject: I miss Bill Clinton

    A black comedian recently commented that he misses Bill Clinton.

    "Yep, that's right: I miss Bill Clinton! He's the closest thing we ever got to having a black man as President. He played the sax, he smoked weed and screwed ugly white women. Even now, look at him. His wife works, he does not and he gets a check from the government every month." :lol:

  6. #6
    [quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@May 23 2004, 06:29 PM
    [b] Subject: I miss Bill Clinton

    A black comedian recently commented that he misses Bill Clinton.

    "Yep, that's right: I miss Bill Clinton! He's the closest thing we ever got to having a black man as President. He played the sax, he smoked weed and screwed ugly white women. Even now, look at him. His wife works, he does not and he gets a check from the government every month." :lol: [/b][/quote]
    Nice Post Sav! :lol: :lol:

  7. #7
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Chicago (Via Harlem, Via Madison WI)
    Posts
    2,571
    I love to read these threads that make blanket generalizations about "Black Folks". Cosby's a musclehead for making comments such as these in a fourm where it can be misinterpretted.

    Ebonics isn't a complete substitue for speaking proper english, it's a phonetic alternative that is used as a "connective medium" by a particular group of people in this country. It should by considered as equivalent dialects to those spoken by Jamaicans (Patoi), Irish, Italians, Austrailians, etc......Or as the Lexicon used by Doctors, Stock Brokers, Garbagemen, etc.....

    It's a form of english that's inherted from generations and generations of Afro-Americans, and those that beleive that the 400 years of oppresion withstood by AA's has no impact on this, are in a word CLUELESS. [b]There's instances where "The Buck is passed", but when it comes to the historical miseducation of black folks in America, the fault should be placed squarely on the shoulder of our soceity as a whole.[/b]

    The problem in a nutshell is that a portion of my community can't serperate when to use "Proper English" and when to use "Ebonics". [b]This can be blamed on both the continual miseducation of the black community, as well as on the actions of the individuals parents and upbringing[/b]. I use ebonics just as much as any "brother" on the streetcorner. But between the hours of 9am & 7pm, I will proudly speak the form of english that is expected of a man that's in my profession. And when i'm at dinner with my girlfriends' Irish-American parents, I will speak the form of english that is expected of a man who is serious about building a future for his family......

    Point is, lingustic versatility can be advantagious to those who are canny enough to use it. Ebonics aren't the root of the problem within my community, education is. Cosbys' comparing apples to oranges, and his misguided argument leads closed-minded people in other communities to say "See, I told you so".

    What "The Cos" needs to do is put his actions where his mouth is. He can take off his "Honorary Degree" hat from Temple and Umass, and spend time talking to children about how odds could (and should) be overcome. He should be leading a drive that would bring economic development to his birthplace of "North Philadelphia" (Only Temple University does any business up there, it's a real fu*king shame). Put your money and power where your mouth is Cos.....The more linguistically challenged Keyshawn Johnson and Magic Johnson have done a lot more for their community than Cos has ever done.

    Any Questions? JK ;)

  8. #8
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Chicago (Via Harlem, Via Madison WI)
    Posts
    2,571
    And just to throw out a little known fact.....

    The rate of college grads in the inner-city are growing at a faster rate than our countrys' rate as a whole. Blacks still have a long way of to go, but the notion that all blacks' do is play sports and sell drugs is emphatically wrong. Should we blame the liberal media for this?

  9. #9
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Naples FL
    Posts
    44,252
    TB It's My understanding that Cosby has given Millions to Howard
    University and other Black Educational Programs..Am I wrong?? :blink:

  10. #10
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,530
    What Cosby says has some merit, but it crosses all racial groups. Kids of any background inured to the instant gratification of the MTV world aren't putting in the work on their education. We're on the cusp of having the first generation that is less educated than the one before it. But at the same time, as Jetmo pointed out, we produce Pat Tillmans.

    Cosby's become very bitter since his son's murder and the whole thing that happened when his out-of-wedlock daughter tried to blackmail him. All I'm saying is that any person, black or white, who goes through losing a son in the flower of life goes through hell. He's obviously filled with anger, and it's entirely understandable. May be as a result a point that should be made as a friendly lesson is made in a Angry screed.

  11. #11
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Chicago (Via Harlem, Via Madison WI)
    Posts
    2,571
    [quote][b]TB It's My understanding that Cosby has given Millions to Howard
    University and other Black Educational Programs..Am I wrong?? [/b][/quote]

    I'm sure he's given cash to Howard U.....

    But the average student that goes to Howard U, could've gone to just about any other University in the country.

    And as I mentioned before, it's more than just throwing money at something, it's about throwing his WEIGHT around. Magic Johnson gets others to invest.....Keyshawn Johnson gets others to invest....Bill Cosby's brithplace is the freaking pits....He hasn't done dick about it. But he parade's around Temple U with his honorary degree as if he's the Cornell West of the mid-atlantic. Why isn't he at William Penn or Overbrook High preaching how he fought his way out the shi*hole.

    Again.....his's rampant and incorrect "overgeneralizations" of my community helps NOBODY. If he wants to help, he should get his ass off his Bala Cywnd (sp?) couch, and throw his weight around so they can build a f*c*ing Home Depot on North Broad Street.... :lol:

  12. #12
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Chicago (Via Harlem, Via Madison WI)
    Posts
    2,571
    [quote][b]What Cosby says has some merit, but it crosses all racial groups. Kids of any background inured to the instant gratification of the MTV world aren't putting in the work on their education. We're on the cusp of having the first generation that is less educated than the one before it. But at the same time, as Jetmo pointed out, we produce Pat Tillmans.

    Cosby's become very bitter since his son's murder and the whole thing that happened when his out-of-wedlock daughter tried to blackmail him. All I'm saying is that any person, black or white, who goes through losing a son in the flower of life goes through hell. He's obviously filled with anger, and it's entirely understandable. May be as a result a point that should be made as a friendly lesson is made in a screed. [/b][/quote]

    I agree Bugg (or "I feel ya", ebonically speaking :D )

  13. #13
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@May 23 2004, 08:16 PM
    [b] If he wants to help, he should get his ass off his Bala Cywnd (sp?) couch, and throw his weight around so they can build a f*c*ing Home Depot on North Broad Street.... :lol: [/b][/quote]
    Haven't you previously stated you were no fan of Home Depot because they came into you community and a bunch of small businesses were forced to close?

  14. #14
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Chicago (Via Harlem, Via Madison WI)
    Posts
    2,571
    [quote][b]Haven't you previously stated you were no fan of Home Depot because they came into you community and a bunch of small businesses were forced to close?[/b][/quote]

    You have a good, but not great memory CBNY my brother....

    I actually said that I wasn't a fan of Walmart (But there were other factors beyond the small business destruction that factored into my opinion).....

    When it comes to North Philly you can replace the name Home Depot, however, with just about any other Retailer/Banker/Manufacturer. North Philadelphia lacks any sort of economic development outside of Temple University. There isn't a person in this country who could do more to improve this situation than Bill Cosby (That includes Mayor Street..Aka The Joke)...

    Cosbys' comments does nobody any good.....

  15. #15
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@May 23 2004, 09:17 PM
    [b] [quote][b]Haven't you previously stated you were no fan of Home Depot because they came into you community and a bunch of small businesses were forced to close?[/b][/quote]

    You have a good, but not great memory CBNY my brother....

    I actually said that I wasn't a fan of Walmart (But there were other factors beyond the small business destruction that factored into my opinion).....

    When it comes to North Philly you can replace the name Home Depot, however, with just about any other Retailer/Banker/Manufacturer. North Philadelphia lacks any sort of economic development outside of Temple University. There isn't a person in this country who could do more to improve this situation than Bill Cosby (That includes Mayor Street..Aka The Joke)...

    Cosbys' comments does nobody any good..... [/b][/quote]
    Out of curiosity, why do you have the username "TerryBradway"?

  16. #16
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Naples FL
    Posts
    44,252
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@May 23 2004, 09:34 PM
    [b] Out of curiosity, why do you have the username "TerryBradway"? [/b][/quote]
    He Doesn't..It's Bad Way... ;)

  17. #17
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Chicago (Via Harlem, Via Madison WI)
    Posts
    2,571
    [quote][b]Out of curiosity, why do you have the username "TerryBradway"? [/b][/quote]

    Like Savage said, it's Bad_Way

    My real name is Terry Thomas, I thought TerryBadway had a "good" ring, and gives a connection to the Jets.

    My handle is by no means a shot at our esteemed GM Terry Bradway....

  18. #18
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    "I see" says the blind-man........

  19. #19
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TerryBadway[/i]@May 23 2004, 07:57 PM
    [b] I love to read these threads that make blanket generalizations about "Black Folks". Cosby's a musclehead for making comments such as these in a fourm where it can be misinterpretted.

    Ebonics isn't a complete substitue for speaking proper english, it's a phonetic alternative that is used as a "connective medium" by a particular group of people in this country. It should by considered as equivalent dialects to those spoken by Jamaicans (Patoi), Irish, Italians, Austrailians, etc......Or as the Lexicon used by Doctors, Stock Brokers, Garbagemen, etc.....

    It's a form of english that's inherted from generations and generations of Afro-Americans, and those that beleive that the 400 years of oppresion withstood by AA's has no impact on this, are in a word CLUELESS. [b]There's instances where "The Buck is passed", but when it comes to the historical miseducation of black folks in America, the fault should be placed squarely on the shoulder of our soceity as a whole.[/b]

    The problem in a nutshell is that a portion of my community can't serperate when to use "Proper English" and when to use "Ebonics". [b]This can be blamed on both the continual miseducation of the black community, as well as on the actions of the individuals parents and upbringing[/b]. I use ebonics just as much as any "brother" on the streetcorner. But between the hours of 9am & 7pm, I will proudly speak the form of english that is expected of a man that's in my profession. And when i'm at dinner with my girlfriends' Irish-American parents, I will speak the form of english that is expected of a man who is serious about building a future for his family......

    Point is, lingustic versatility can be advantagious to those who are canny enough to use it. Ebonics aren't the root of the problem within my community, education is. Cosbys' comparing apples to oranges, and his misguided argument leads closed-minded people in other communities to say "See, I told you so".

    What "The Cos" needs to do is put his actions where his mouth is. He can take off his "Honorary Degree" hat from Temple and Umass, and spend time talking to children about how odds could (and should) be overcome. He should be leading a drive that would bring economic development to his birthplace of "North Philadelphia" (Only Temple University does any business up there, it's a real fu*king shame). Put your money and power where your mouth is Cos.....The more linguistically challenged Keyshawn Johnson and Magic Johnson have done a lot more for their community than Cos has ever done.

    Any Questions? JK ;) [/b][/quote]
    Good read TB. I think Mr Cosby was addressing an issue that transcends all races in America, but put it in the context of how the problem relates within his own race. The truth is, most everybody talks differently at home than they do at work regardless of race, nd in the company of friends, we all have our own 'ebonics'.

    The percieved problem is that kids seem to talk in a very illiterate way. But really, is it a problem that is any worse than it ever was? We all talked 'slang' most likely when we were kids, and we all most likely grew out of it when we hit the adult world. Like TB said, urban kids are beginning to attend colleges at a much higher rate than the nationwide average, and this is a VERY good thing. While I don't think it is good to just say "all is well" and ignore percieved problems, sometimes we should look at them in their true context and wonder if we all had alot of maturing to do as kids, both verbally and otherwise.

  20. #20
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    "I be bi-lingual!" ;) :lol:

    Education in general is failing and no amount of money alone will fix it. Our teachers are simply not as good as they used to be and teacher's unions hurt children and schools. Schools and teachers are simply not held accountable for failure and are thus not incented to perform at an acceptable level. It's basic stuff. Rather than fundamentally change our system, they whine and whine about[i] funding[/i] whenever their students fail. So, we throw more and more money at them and have been doing so for decades with counter productive results. Test scores haven't improved, we've simply lowered standards. When kids fail, they are taught to blame this or that - ANYTHING but themselves. We live in a world that has objective standards of achievement. Your rent is $X, your salary is $Y. Kids need to be taught basic skills and not coddled to feel that their ignorance or failure is the result of some oppressive bogey-man, rater than their own laziness or misdirection. "Shut up, quit whining and do your homework!" If your kid's school sucks, do something about it besides whine! Move! Get a second job and pay for private school! Stop wasting income on lesiure itmes for yourself like a Cadillac Escalade, or $200 sneaker and a zillion XBobx games! Get active in the PTA! Run for a position on the schoolboard!

    Education spending is up 65% under Bush - look it up. Money is not and never has been the answer by itself. Yet, people whine about Iraq or some such nonsense when failing schools come up in conversation, as if our education system was perfect in 2000 prior to Bush and now sucks directly because of him and simply state that if the $X that is presently being wasted on program Y were thrown at schools we'd would solve everything - that is intellectually lazy and superficial. It goes beyond political affiliations. We've been throwing money at students for years. The Iraq War, George Bush, Bill Cosby, ebonics and "400 years of oppression" have little to do with our present state of education and white kids use ebonics a ton these days - they simply learn it from MTV, etc. Kids of ALL races don't even know how to string together sentences, find the Pacific Ocean on a map, dissect a frog, change a tire, prove that every tirangle has exactly 180 degrees or divide 467 by 789 without a calculator. The problem is that our teachers are not qualified, unions prop up sub-par teachers, and parents are too selfish or lazy to care or to be vigilent about their kids' educations. Teach your kid at home in addition to school if the school is terrible and you already have two jobs and can barely make ends meet. Most people would rather pump their kid full of Ritalin and blame George Bush or John Kerry for THEIR failings.

    Asian-Americans are the only racial group that consistently promotes the value of high academic achievement. Even in bad schools they achieve. Why? Are they smarter than the rest of us? No, their parents and families are simply vigilent when it comes to their children's schooling. They have come over here and done well for themselves and it is because most of them come from stable families and are up their kids a$$ses about school. Everyone can sit around and theorize about WHY certain ethnic groups CANNOT do what the Asian-Americans are and continue to do, and any individual family or parent or child may have perfectly reasonable explanations as to why things are exceptionally difficult for them. But all of that doesn't matter. It doens't. Regardless of how difficult it is, the ends results are what matter. Guess what, life is hard! You work 70+ hours a week and don't have any money? Tough - spend time with your kid helping with homework anyway. Discipline him when he gets bad grades and stay with it. Don't listen to his whiny excuses about the teacher being tough. Don't blame or threaten to sue a school if your kid fails. Your kids HAVE to learn basic skills, regardless of how difficult YOUR upbringing was or your life continues to be. Suck it up!

    We are all to blame and no magical "program" is going to come swooping down from heaven to save us or our children or schools. It is up to the[b] individual family[/b].

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us