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Thread: NFL History tells the story

  1. #1
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    I did some research that may enlighten some of our less informed GMs. GJ&H was spouting off at the mouth that he could name all kinds of players taken where Gallery was that went bust. While many QBs, RBs, and other skill players have failed, Tony Mandarich is THE ONLY offensive tackle taken in the first two picks in the ENTIRE HISTORY of the NFL OR AFL that was a bust.

    I would challenge him to name just one besides Mandarich but there aren't any. Here is the proof.

    In the history of the NFL (and AFL) drafts (including supplemental picks too), only two offensive tackles were ever selected with the first overall pick in the draft.

    1. 1968 - Ron Yary played 15 years, went to 7 pro bowls and is in the NFL Hall of Fame. Not a bad pick at all.
    2. 1997 - Orlando Pace has been named to every pro bowl after his first two years, is the highest paid tackle in the NFL, and is on his way to the Hall of Fame

    There were six offensive tackles selected in round two

    1. 1966 - Tom Mack played 13 years went to 11 pro bowls and is in the HOF
    2. (Undrafted so far) The next tackle selected in round two is a glaring HOF ommission with several pro bowls
    3. 1989 - Tony Mandarich is the only exception to the rule. He is the only offensive tackle taken in the first two rounds of the draft ever that doesn't belong in this all time mock draft. While he was never great he did play seven years and started 63 of the 86 games he played in.
    4. 1995 - Tony Boselli played 7 years and went to five pro bowls before injuries cut his career short.
    5. (Undrafted so far) Another great player but if you don't know who I ain't telling.
    6. Robert Gallery - Maybe the best of the lot. Only time will tell.

  2. #2
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    Well then you should have drafted #5.

  3. #3
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    Originally posted by The Troll@Jun 21 2004, 09:33 PM
    Well then you should have drafted #5.
    I'll take my chances with Gallery. # 5 wouldn't be a bad pick for someone that needs a lineman though.

  4. #4
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    Nice try

    OT Dean Steinkuhler was taken 2nd Overall in 1984 ... I don't see the HOF breaking down his door

    OT Jerry Sisemore was taken 3rd Overall in 1973 ... I don't see any GM's rushing to draft him here

    OT Lionel Antoine was taken 3rd Overall in 1972 ... never heard from again

    OT George Kunz was taken 2nd Overall in 1969 ... prior to this moment I never even knew he existed

    OT Scott Appleton went 4th Overall in 1964 ... never heard from again

    OT Jim Dunaway was taken 3rd Overall in 1963 ... must have been a better actor than Faye Dunaway to be drafted so high

    OT Joe Rutgens was taken 3rd Overall in 1961 ... was promptly exposed, then founded Rutgens University for Busts

    OT Art Hunter was taken 3rd Overall in 1954 ... well, you get the idea ... there are more, but why beat a dead horse

    Maybe some of these guys became sevicable players ... MAYBE ... but not one of them ever became a Great Player ... which you sort of infer is a mortal lock for Robert Gallery simply cause he was a dominant college OT

    From their draft position, is it safe to assume ALL OF THESE MEN were dominant college OT's and much was expected from them ... much more than they ever delivered?

    JH, I love Robert Gallery as a prospect ... Sean Taylor too ... but an ALL-TIME NFL DRAFT is not the place to be picking them

  5. #5
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    I don't think anyone doubts the fact that it would appear Taylor and Gallery will turn out to be pretty good players, I think they were probably the best players in the draft. But in an All-Time Draft the only way to judge players is by what they have done in the NFL, your two rookies have done absolutely NOTHING. At least when you pick a player that's only been in a couple years you can go by how dominating he's been so far, but with rookies you can't even do that. JMHO.

  6. #6
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    I'll also add that Taylor is not going to hurt you team that much, he's is just your reserve safety anyway, if I was a judge though Gallery would hurt your oline grade.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by nyjet80@Jun 21 2004, 09:44 PM
    I don't think anyone doubts the fact that it would appear Taylor and Gallery will turn out to be pretty good players, I think they were probably the best players in the draft. But in an All-Time Draft the only way to judge players is by what they have done in the NFL, your two rookies have done absolutely NOTHING. At least when you pick a player that's only been in a couple years you can go by how dominating he's been so far, but with rookies you can't even do that. JMHO.
    Totally Agree

    You cannot take a player in an ALL-TIME NFL DRAFT who has no NFL track-record whatsoever ... none ... zero ... zilch ... natta

    Hey, in that case I can draft some kid in H.S. who is breaking every H.S. record in the books ... then say he's a mortal lock to become a GREAT NFL Player

    How would anyone know if there is not even a sintilla of evidence at the NFL level?

    Hey, cause I say so

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by nyjet80@Jun 21 2004, 09:44 PM
    But in an All-Time Draft the only way to judge players is by what they have done in the NFL
    No one said that upfront. It may be the opinion of several GMS but that does not make it so. The strength, speed, and ability of the players is undisputed. Their college experience has deomnstrated their instincs an their technique.

    Why settle for a guy that almost made the hall of fame when you could have a young stud player raring to make a name for himself in the league? While they bear some risk who is to say that a sophomore slump or an injury bug won't bring some of the other current players crashing down to Earth?

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Jun 21 2004, 09:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Green Jets & Ham @ Jun 21 2004, 09:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--nyjet80@Jun 21 2004, 09:44 PM
    I don&#39;t think anyone doubts the fact that it would appear Taylor and Gallery will turn out to be pretty good players, I think they were probably the best players in the draft. But in an All-Time Draft the only way to judge players is by what they have done in the NFL, your two rookies have done absolutely NOTHING. At least when you pick a player that&#39;s only been in a couple years you can go by how dominating he&#39;s been so far, but with rookies you can&#39;t even do that. JMHO.
    Totally Agree

    You cannot take a player in an ALL-TIME NFL DRAFT who has no NFL track-record whatsoever ... none ... zero ... zilch ... natta

    Hey, in that case I can draft some kid in H.S. who is breaking every H.S. record in the books ... then say he&#39;s a mortal lock to become a GREAT NFL Player

    How would anyone know if there is not even a sintilla of evidence at the NFL level?

    Hey, cause I say so [/b][/quote]
    You are only saying that because I beat you to the punch. You of all people would be spinnig things much differently if it was you that had taken Gallery.

    In the last draft you had Raiola and Crockett in the hall of fame you spoke so highly of them. You are also trying to pass Namath and Fouts off as though they were in the same class as Graham, Unitas, and Montana.

    The rules restrict the draft to NFL players. Like it or not, that includes the rookies.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by James Hasty@Jun 21 2004, 09:51 PM
    Why settle for a guy that almost made the hall of fame when you could have a young stud player raring to make a name for himself in the league?
    Or another way of putting it .....

    Why take a player who almost made the HOF when you can select a player who has never played a down of football in the NFL and proclaim him a HOF lock?

    JH, there is no shame in ALMOST MAKING THE HOF ... You had to be some kinda football player to even garner serious consideration

    And if you were a HOF finalist, that means you had enough support on the committe to make the final round {i.e. recieved a number of votes for entrance, but fell short}

    BTW, there are numerous players {in fact, the majority} who ALMOST MADE THE HOF before they actually MADE THE HOF

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by James Hasty@Jun 21 2004, 09:55 PM
    You are only saying that because I beat you to the punch. You of all people would be spinnig things much differently if it was you that had taken Gallery.

    ROTFL&#33;&#33; :lol:

    That&#39;s it man ... you tell&#39;em, JH ... tell&#39;em all

    I&#39;m sorry, JH ... seriously ... you&#39;re doing a good job, muh-man ... doesn&#39;t matter what anyone else thinks ... if you&#39;re happy with the players you draft, that is the bottom line

    No kidding ... I feel bad cause I feel like we&#39;re all piling on one man ... its not right ... I apologize, my friend ... not another peep from me on Gallery and Taylor

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Jun 21 2004, 09:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Green Jets & Ham @ Jun 21 2004, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--James Hasty@Jun 21 2004, 09:51 PM
    Why settle for a guy that almost made the hall of fame when you could have a young stud player raring to make a name for himself in the league?
    Or another way of putting it .....

    Why take a player who almost made the HOF when you can select a player who has never played a down of football in the NFL and proclaim him a HOF lock?

    JH, there is no shame in ALMOST MAKING THE HOF ... You had to be some kinda football player to even garner serious consideration

    And if you were a HOF finalist, that means you had enough support on the committe to make the final round {i.e. recieved a number of votes for entrance, but fell short}

    BTW, there are numerous players {in fact, the majority} who ALMOST MADE THE HOF before they actually MADE THE HOF [/b][/quote]
    The great ones didn&#39;t need two tries though. Do you think guys like Joe Greene, Bob Lilly, or Johnny Unitas needed two tries?

    Every team in this mock is better than any team that ever set foot on a football field. With some execptions (Bob "the Bullet" Hayes for one) the guys that were passed over for the hall of fame aren&#39;t going to be the leaders in this league.

    There are only three players in the entire draft that I would consider worthy of consideration in this draft. As good as these players are I would have considered any of them to be a reach in the first half of the draft. At this late point in the draft Gallery and Taylor are very competative with the likes of Joe Jacoby, Lou Creekmuir, Jim Tyrer, Johhny Robinson, or Darren Woodson.

    If I took Derrick Straight and claimed that he was the greatest CB of all time you would have every right to tear me a new one. Instead I took two players who many credible sources regard as the best players in the draft and players who can compete against top competition in the NFL from day one.

  13. #13
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    I see what you&#39;re saying, JH ... tried to snag a few HOF sleepers?

    That&#39;s kewl ... wouldn&#39;t have done it myself, but if you feel this strongly about the players I give you credit for having the kajones to pull the trigger

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham@Jun 21 2004, 10:20 PM
    I see what you&#39;re saying, JH ... tried to snag a few HOF sleepers?

    That&#39;s kewl ... wouldn&#39;t have done it myself, but if you feel this strongly about the players I give you credit for having the kajones to pull the trigger
    Thanks Ham.

    I think Sean Taylor was a good pick mostly becasue the DB crop was thinning out a bit. Gallery is the pick I really feel strongly about.

    The article I quoted when I made the pick states that Gallery scored slightly higher than Boselli at the combine. The other linemen I was looking at (Creekmoor and one that isn&#39;t drafted yet) just didn&#39;t have the mean streak I was looking for.

    If no one steals them I have a ouple other surprises waiting for you guys. It should be interesting to see how everyone goes about filling their remaining holes.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by James Hasty@Jun 21 2004, 09:31 PM
    If no one steals them I have a ouple other surprises waiting for you guys. It should be interesting to see how everyone goes about filling their remaining holes.
    Don&#39;t worry... :lol:

  16. #16
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    Are we allowed to draft underclassmen who we believe will one day make great NFL players? :lol:

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by The Gun Of Bavaria@Jun 22 2004, 12:42 AM
    Are we allowed to draft underclassmen who we believe will one day make great NFL players? :lol:
    I took two players that are currently IN THE NFL. If you don&#39;t like it go scratch.

  18. #18
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    Poor Otto Graham is going to get killed by severe blunt trauma to the head if he wears his leather helmet...

  19. #19
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    Here&#39;s the bottom line JH.

    Noone is questioning the talent of Gallery and Taylor. They may turn out to be the all time greats at their positions but it&#39;s going to take 3 to 5 years to find that out.

    Even if they make the pro bowl and ALL-NFL teams as rookies. That doesn&#39;t mean that they are all time greats.

    The is an All-Time Great NFL Players draft. Taylor and Gallery have done nothing at this point.

    There have been players taken in this draft that have only 2 or 3 great seasons under their belt and even they are borderline "NFL ALL TIME GREATS". But atleast they have done something and you can project them, Taylor and Gallery have done nothing.

    Your two picks were bad. 3 to 5 years from now, in a 2007 NFL All Time Greats draft, They might be good picks, maybe........................ Not in 2004.

  20. #20
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    By that logic Younggerbilfan, Ray Lewis, Champ Bailey, and Jerome Brown were serious reaches as well.

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