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Thread: Cluless George: Too many American jobs?

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    [quote][b]But in a speech Thursday to the League of United Latin American Citizens annual convention in San Antonio, Bush reiterated his backing for his sweeping immigration proposals.

    "Our country must confront this basic fact: Jobs being generated in our growing economy are not being filled by American citizens, and these jobs represent an opportunity for workers who come from abroad, who want to put money on the table for their children," Bush said in remarks delivered by satellite to the group's annual convention.

    "Yet, current law says to those workers, you must live in a massive, undocumented economy," Bush said. "And so we've got people in America working hard who live in fear and who are often exploited, and this system isn't fair and it's not right." [/b][/quote]

    If you can stomach this trash, here's the full text: [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040708/ap_on_el_pr/bush_hispanics&e=1&ncid]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...panics&e=1&ncid[/url]


    *********

    It's weird, isn't Arbusto going to be the first U.S President to have seen fewer jobs created than when he first came in?

    He, obviously, doesn't "get it". He constantly tells Americans he will do anything and everything to get them jobs and improve their wages, yet he vows to import millions and millions of more workers to drive down wages :wacko:


    Prediction: He's a one and out President. His only shot to stay maybe to oust Cheney, but it may not matter. Back in January up to 15 million conservative Americans voted to renounce Bush on Mike Savage's website due to the amnesty plea....[b]The fallout was so rough on his base, that he stayed silent until yesterday. Now we know he hasn't changed and won't change :rolleyes: [/b]

    He's no different than Kerry (a liberal), except Kerry isn't a warhawking neocon...... maybe it's time to show him the door and take whatever comes?

    What a flop. He'll be right up there with Carter as a U.S disaster. Also, Carter's idiocy almost destroyed the Democrats; Bush will do the same thing to his party!


    [b]Reality check GW[/b]: [url=http://projectusa.org/Ezine/2003/03-11-19-dems-out-of-touch.html]http://projectusa.org/Ezine/2003/03-11-19-...t-of-touch.html[/url]

  2. #2
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    Riggins - please explain to me how Bush could have created more jobs, specifically and in detail.

    The issue is [i]real[/i] wages and purchasing power. You can have a higher dollar-wage if it makes you feel better, but if prces go up sharply due to increased costs of production (labor) than what's the difference?

    Bush, or any other politician, has nothing whatsoever to do with real wages or job creation/destruction.

    Yes, immiogration is appalling but you have said yourself that both parties are equally horrible on this issue. I agree, 1000000000000000000000000% and am appalled at Bush for it. However, IMO, you are simply all over the place when you try to tie every single issue under the sun back to illegal immigration. For example, free trade and globalization have little to do with it.

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    Bush is courting the Latin vote...plain and simple. He is attempting to curry their favor for battleground states like California and Florida. He knows that without them he will lose those states.

    LL

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    [quote][b]Bush is courting the Latin vote...plain and simple. He is attempting to curry their favor for battleground states like California and Florida. He knows that without them he will lose those states.
    [/b][/quote]

    I havn't seen the polls, but is there any chance in hell that California would go to Bush?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Jul 9 2004, 03:47 PM
    [b] [quote][b]Bush is courting the Latin vote...plain and simple. He is attempting to curry their favor for battleground states like California and Florida. He knows that without them he will lose those states.
    [/b][/quote]

    I havn't seen the polls, but is there any chance in hell that California would go to Bush? [/b][/quote]
    Hey they elected the Terminator...anything is possible!

    LL

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    [quote][b]please explain to me how Bush could have created more jobs, specifically and in detail.[/b][/quote]

    Well, if 30 percent of all new job created since he took office have gone "immigrants", doesn't it stand to reason that jobs would be going to Americans if our laws were enforced? Remember, Bush is basically allowing these people to break our laws and then wants to reward them with legal status :wacko:

    [quote][b]The issue is real wages and purchasing power. You can have a higher dollar-wage if it makes you feel better, but if prces go up sharply due to increased costs of production (labor) than what's the difference?[/b][/quote]

    The big lie. How much will it cost you if your neighbors illegal housekeeper making low wages has 5 kids in school and then has a tough pregnancy trying for another kid ( American born)?

    Each kid in school will cost your town's taxpayers between 8,000 and 10,000 per year.... A premature baby, could cost taxpers up to 250,000 dollars......Is cheap labor ever going to pay for that?

    [quote][b]Bush, or any other politician, has nothing whatsoever to do with real wages or job creation/destruction.[/b][/quote]

    By merely enforcing the laws 80 percent of Americans want enforced (link 2 above) and cutting back these Hi-Tech visa programs, wages would go up and jobs created would go American VOTERS..........Basic supply and demand of labor.

    [quote][b]However, IMO, you are simply all over the place when you try to tie every single issue under the sun back to illegal immigration. For example, free trade and globalization have little to do with it. [/b][/quote]

    Not really. The same, exact forces that are driving this immigration mess, are driving the "globalist movement"............OK, business' need to cut cost, but don't they have to consider the social good? Wouldn't it be ideal if American biz had us all working for the wages paid in Pakistan and India?

    How about this example: T.J Maxx got a city in PA. to give them a million tax-breaks, which cost the towns taxpayers millions and millions. In return, T.J Maxx promised up to 500 warehouse jobs....Yet, after a few years, T.J Maxx was hit with charges that they bused in 500 illegals per day!!!

    Is that fair that the towns tax-payers subsidized the company new facility, then were shut out of from the jobs? Basically, they built T.J Maxx a place to conduct "illegal behavior", then paid for all the free care and programs of the illegal workers :[img]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>.......Same can be said of outsourcers that take U.S tax breaks, then send work away.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Riggins44[/i]@Jul 9 2004, 03:50 PM
    [b] [quote][b]please explain to me how Bush could have created more jobs, specifically and in detail.[/b][/quote]

    Well, if 30 percent of all new job created since he took office have gone "immigrants", doesn't it stand to reason that jobs would be going to Americans if our laws were enforced? Remember, Bush is basically allowing these people to break our laws and then wants to reward them with legal status :wacko:

    [quote][b]The issue is real wages and purchasing power. You can have a higher dollar-wage if it makes you feel better, but if prces go up sharply due to increased costs of production (labor) than what's the difference?[/b][/quote]

    The big lie. How much will it cost you if your neighbors illegal housekeeper making low wages has 5 kids in school and then has a tough pregnancy trying for another kid ( American born)?

    Each kid in school will cost your town's taxpayers between 8,000 and 10,000 per year.... A premature baby, could cost taxpers up to 250,000 dollars......Is cheap labor ever going to pay for that?

    [quote][b]Bush, or any other politician, has nothing whatsoever to do with real wages or job creation/destruction.[/b][/quote]

    By merely enforcing the laws 80 percent of Americans want enforced (link 2 above) and cutting back these Hi-Tech visa programs, wages would go up and jobs created would go American VOTERS..........Basic supply and demand of labor.

    [quote][b]However, IMO, you are simply all over the place when you try to tie every single issue under the sun back to illegal immigration. For example, free trade and globalization have little to do with it. [/b][/quote]

    Not really. The same, exact forces that are driving this immigration mess, are driving the "globalist movement"............OK, business' need to cut cost, but don't they have to consider the social good? Wouldn't it be ideal if American biz had us all working for the wages paid in Pakistan and India?

    How about this example: T.J Maxx got a city in PA. to give them a million tax-breaks, which cost the towns taxpayers millions and millions. In return, T.J Maxx promised up to 500 warehouse jobs....Yet, after a few years, T.J Maxx was hit with charges that they bused in 500 illegals per day!!!

    Is that fair that the towns tax-payers subsidized the company new facility, then were shut out of from the jobs? Basically, they built T.J Maxx a place to conduct "illegal behavior", then paid for all the free care and programs of the illegal workers :<!--emo&Angry:-->[img]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif[/img]<!--endemo-->.......Same can be said of outsourcers that take U.S tax breaks, then send work away. [/b][/quote]
    No, Riggins, it doesn't follow. If the cost of labor goes up, firms won't hire workers. If Americans were willing to work for the low wages illegals are, they'd already have jobs. They aren't, they don't. You are projecting what is partly a societal and "sense of entitlement" problem onto illegals.

    What big lie? Is it your contention that prices would not go up and real wages go down? How would wages go up without illegals, when the only reason people hire illegals in the first place is because they think wages are already too high?

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    here's my problem - we have no idea who is in the country, how they got here and what their plans are...

    borders wide-freakin-open for any two bit terrorist to waltz in...

    but we spend all our money fighting to establish a democracy in Iraq?

    we are putting the cart before the horse. If our house was in order maybe (maybe) it would make sense to fight abroad - however with this nation, it's intel in shambles, the border a joke, we are not paying attention to the right areas when it comes to REALLY improving national security.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 9 2004, 04:05 PM
    [b] here's my problem - we have no idea who is in the country, how they got here and what their plans are...

    borders wide-freakin-open for any two bit terrorist to waltz in...

    but we spend all our money fighting to establish a democracy in Iraq?

    we are putting the cart before the horse. If our house was in order maybe (maybe) it would make sense to fight abroad - however with this nation, it's intel in shambles, the border a joke, we are not paying attention to the right areas when it comes to REALLY improving national security. [/b][/quote]
    Fair points, all. And NONE of the dumb-ass politicians seem like they want to do a thing about it!

  10. #10
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    duplicate

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    [quote][b] (Section109Row15 @ Jul 9 2004, 03:47 PM)

    Bush is courting the Latin vote...plain and simple. He is attempting to curry their favor for battleground states like California and Florida. He knows that without them he will lose those states.



    I havn't seen the polls, but is there any chance in hell that California would go to Bush?

    Hey they elected the Terminator...anything is possible![/b][/quote]

    **Arnold and Tom McClintock finished 1st and 2nd in the recall election. Both are Republicans and both came out VERY STRONG against drivers ID&#39;s for illegals........[b]Any Republican willing to handle this problem straight on, has shown they can win in California[/b].......Go the way of the recent Republicans in Cali trying to pander to illegals, you lose like a stupid fool: Dem&#39;s won&#39;t vote for them; Conservative&#39;s stay away from the voting booth. Bush will find this out again <_<

    **People make it seem like this is a huge issue to ALL hispanics. A significant number of legal hispanics are affected by this and are against this (some polls say up to forty percent in Texas)......Heck, any Hispanic in this nation LEGALLY doesn&#39;t need amnesty and can legally bring family here.......What this is, is a battle to gain favor from radical lefty groups that want to gain power through demographic shifts---Henry Cisneros, Bill Richardson crowd .......[b]for the Dem&#39;s it&#39;s great; for the Republicans it&#39;s a public suicide pact [/b] :rolleyes:

    Bitonti, the border is a joke...We have no border.

    5E, your great man, but I can&#39;t go any further than this. I&#39;ve got friends in construction that tell me illegals destroy their wages and jobs due to their huge presence........If you can&#39;t understand how illegals subvert jobs and wages, then I can&#39;t say any more. Really can&#39;t.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Jul 9 2004, 05:47 PM
    [b] [quote][b]Bush is courting the Latin vote...plain and simple. He is attempting to curry their favor for battleground states like California and Florida. He knows that without them he will lose those states.
    [/b][/quote]

    I havn&#39;t seen the polls, but is there any chance in hell that California would go to Bush? [/b][/quote]
    No way&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol:

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Riggins44[/i]@Jul 9 2004, 04:18 PM
    [b] [quote][b] (Section109Row15 @ Jul 9 2004, 03:47 PM)

    Bush is courting the Latin vote...plain and simple. He is attempting to curry their favor for battleground states like California and Florida. He knows that without them he will lose those states.



    I havn&#39;t seen the polls, but is there any chance in hell that California would go to Bush?

    Hey they elected the Terminator...anything is possible&#33;[/b][/quote]

    **Arnold and Tom McClintock finished 1st and 2nd in the recall election. Both are Republicans and both came out VERY STRONG against drivers ID&#39;s for illegals........[b]Any Republican willing to handle this problem straight on, has shown they can win in California[/b].......Go the way of the recent Republicans in Cali trying to pander to illegals, you lose like a stupid fool: Dem&#39;s won&#39;t vote for them; Conservative&#39;s stay away from the poll. Bush will this out again <_<

    **People make it seem like this is a huge issue to ALL hispanics. A significant number of legal hispanics are affected by this and are against this (some polls say up to forty percent in Texas)......Heck, any Hispanic in this nation LEGALLY doesn&#39;t need amnesty and can legally bring family here.......What this is, is a battle to gain favor from radical lefty groups that want to gain power through demographic shifts---Henry Cisneros, Bill Richardson crowd .......[b]for the Dem&#39;s it&#39;s great; for the Republicans it&#39;s a public suicide pact [/b] :rolleyes:

    Bitonti, the border is a joke...We have no border.

    5E, your great man, but I can&#39;t go any further than this. I&#39;ve got friends in construction that tell me illegals destroy their wages and jobs due to their huge presence........If you can&#39;t understand how illegals subvert jobs and wages, then I can&#39;t say any more. Really can&#39;t. [/b][/quote]
    Riggo - I understand completely, but you are looking only at one side. Do your friends in construction realize that their desired wages are likely above market value, then? I have no doubt they are upset and they have every reason to be. However, if they want higher wages and no illegal immigrant presence, then they&#39;d likely be *****ing to you about how they cannot find jobs once unemployment rises because firms have determined that labor costs are too high, and they begin to replace labor with captial, hire less workers, or simply go out of business. Do you have any friends who [i]own[/i] construction companies and ***** about how unions drive up wages and almost force them out of business or force them to hire less workers or lay off other workers, or go outside the unions?

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    The loser in the end, will be the people of Califonia. They&#39;re the ones that will have to pay all the taxes to "build a new school every day for the next 20 years" due to this......

    When there middle-class is whittled away, they have to deal the crime--which the CBC reported is "fallujah like" in LA with all the gangs.

    They are stuck with smog and stiffling gas taxes...... Enourmous property rates just to live in a half way decent area.

    They are stuck with no NFL, because there&#39;s no money to build a sidewalk, let alone a stadium.....


    They can run from LA and hide in"Orange County", but people I know say places like Anahiem are almost as dangerous as LA and getting worse every day.

    In the end, the joke will be on them <_<

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    [quote][b]I understand completely, but you are looking only at one side. Do your friends in construction realize that their desired wages are likely above market value, then? I have no doubt they are upset and they have every reason to be. However, if they want higher wages and no illegal immigrant presence, then they&#39;d likely be *****ing to you about how they cannot find jobs once unemployment rises because firms have determined that labor costs are too high, and they begin to replace labor with captial, hire less workers, or simply go out of business. Do you have any friends who own construction companies and ***** about how unions drive up wages and almost force them out of business or force them to hire less workers or lay off other workers, or go outside the unions?[/b][/quote]

    5E, here is the deal: These are not rich people or bad people, like the creeps at the CATO Institute or CNBC may want you to believe.

    They are regular people hoping to pay rent, send kids to college, buy a car that runs and live in decent areas.

    5 years ago, if a roof needed repair, who did it? Did the house simply leak?

    No they paid the wage to locals. Nothing obscene, maybe 18 dollars per hr....Thanks to illegals, the rate is now about 8 dollars an hr. and both the illegal and the American that lost his work are sent into poverty--which you pay for in taxes.

    By the way, I worked on plenty of roofs during high school and college. The clowns at CNBC should try it for a day, before they blast an American wanting a "livable wage"........It can get real hot up there (over 100 degrees every day) and if you fall, you&#39;ll be lucky if your only paralyzed. Meanwhile, those a-holes ***** about only making 200K per year reading off a teleprompter <_<

    By the way, visit Anahiem or Santa Ana, California some day. You&#39;ll find in the early 1980&#39;s Santa Ana was as safe as a place as you could find in the U.S (Brady Bunch like)......Today, the few yuppies left, live behind steel bars and fear crime all the time.

    Want to import poverty to lower wages, regardless of race, you pay the social costs&#33;

    Also, congressman Major Owens of NY was yelling about illegal immigration and wages in his region: He blasted it&#39;s effects for 10 minutes on RNC a few weeks back, claiming black males in NYC had 50 percent unemloyment rates.....Then the next day, Mr. Owens voted with open-borders crowd to allow this criminality to continue :rolleyes:

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Riggins44[/i]@Jul 9 2004, 02:32 PM
    [b] He&#39;s no different than Kerry (a liberal), except Kerry isn&#39;t a warhawking neocon...... [b]maybe it&#39;s time to show him the door and take whatever comes[/b]?

    What a flop. He&#39;ll be right up there with Carter as a U.S disaster. Also, Carter&#39;s idiocy almost destroyed the Democrats; Bush will do the same thing to his party&#33;
    [/b][/quote]
    I just hope you&#39;re not a doctor in real life. Your solution to saving a sick person would be to kill them, I guess.

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