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Thread: Kerry Carved Out Tax Loophole for Heinz Foods

  1. #1
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    Tax legislation proposed in the Senate by Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry last year was designed to crackdown on companies doing business overseas - but the proposal had one giant loophole: an exemption for the H.J. Heinz Foods Co., the source of his wife's vast fortune.

    The stunning Kerry-Heinz conflict of interest came to light on Wednesday in a report by Donald Luskin, chief investment officer of Trend Macrolytics LLC, published in National Review Online.

    "Already Kerry's economic proposals seem tuned to serve his wife's economic interests," Luskin contended. "His proposal last March to end tax breaks for U.S. corporations that do business overseas was designed with a loophole that would let the H. J. Heinz Company the centerpiece of Mrs. Kerry's family fortune keep its overseas tax breaks, and get a lower domestic tax rate at the same time."

    Luskin cited Kerry's Heinz Foods tax loophole as just one example of why it was absolutely imperative that his wife unseal her tax returns before the election.

    So far the prospective first lady has agreed to make just two pages of her tax forms public - and then not until October. Meanwhile, there are indications that she may have significantly understated her income.

    Limited tax information released by Mrs. Kerry in March put her annual 2003 income at $5 million. While the Heinz Kerrys refuse to reveal the full extent of their wealth, the Los Angeles Times valued her net worth last month at between $900 million and $3.2 billion.

    Even if Heinz kerry picked extremely conservative investments, Luskin said her reported income was suspiciously low.

    "Let's put this in terms that people of less extreme wealth can relate to," he wrote. "If you had $100,000 invested last year and your investment income was only $500 -- the same percentage as Mrs. Kerry's income -- then something would be very much out of whack."

    Luskin said that Heinz Kerry's financial figures, such as they're known to date, suggest that she is either "the world's worst investor" or "Mrs. Kerry may be the world's greatest cheat."

    "We can't know exactly what is out of whack with Mrs. Kerry's income, if anything, because . . . [her] separate [tax] returns have never been made part of the public record," Luskin said.

  2. #2
    Yup he's the man of the little people :rolleyes:

  3. #3
    oh gee i guess i have to vote for Bush now

    you guys don't get it

    no one actually likes Kerry

    everyone hates Bush

    i'd vote for a masterbatory zoo monkey before i'd vote for George Bush and god forbid that uber-scumbag Dick Cheney

  4. #4
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 08:41 AM
    [b] i'd vote for a masterbatory zoo monkey before i'd vote for George Bush and god forbid that uber-scumbag Dick Cheney [/b][/quote]
    You are. You're voting for Mr. $1000 haircut. The guy who travels 24/7 with an assistant solely to make him pb&j sandwiches.

    No scumbag, just a man of the little people.

  5. #5
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 08:41 AM
    [b] oh gee i guess i have to vote for Bush now

    you guys don't get it

    no one actually likes Kerry

    everyone hates Bush

    i'd vote for a masterbatory zoo monkey before i'd vote for George Bush and god forbid that uber-scumbag Dick Cheney [/b][/quote]
    Yes but would you vote for Kerry?

  6. #6
    Bush is just as much of a wealthy man as Kerry. Both have fortunes, and economic success, well beyond the scope of scope of 97% of Americans.

    In addition, every politician has issues of "Conflict of Interest" in the line of their public work. For example, the War in Iraq will increase Mr. Bush (and many of his staff's) personal wealth through their considerable holdings in oil companies. The fact is, MR. kerry is running for office, not Ms. Heinz. Her records are none of the American peoples business unless you can prove illegal activity. The same goes for Ms. Bush....if she had a job.

    Another issue, the argument that Bush is somehow a "Man of the People" when compared to Kerry is rediculous and irrelevant to the real reasons we should be voting this year. Both spend money in relation to their economic status, which is to be expected. Why should a man who has such money not enjoy it?? Certainly Bush enjoyed owning the Texas Rangers didn't he?

    Even more insane is the implication behind this kind of thread, the implication that some poor schlub would make a better leader than someone who has succeeded in our capitalist economy. That line of thinking is foolish at best, and dangerous at worst.

    Look, I am all for explaining why Bush would be a better choice than Kerry come election day (because he is, on 90% of the issues), but threads like this, that degenerate into senseless Kerry bashing over his haircut (how irrelevant can it get) are pointless drivel and a waste of bandwidth.

    Debate the issues, not crap like this.

  7. #7
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    I agree that the devolving and personal nature of the debates gets childish. However, some of your points are flawed, IMO. The "if Mrs. Bush had a job" is misleading, since Teresa Heinz is not working 9 to 5 every day for the Heinz company. She married Senator Heinz, he died, and she got a ton of money. Her fortune is tied to the company, and since Kerry married her, so is his, or, at least, his standard of living. These people haven't been "successful" in the private sector, since they did nothing whatsoever to create the wealth they both currently enjoy the fruits of, no more than Dubya created the wealth that he was born into. Both men (and their wives) are simply quite fortunate to have had wealthy family members.....

    Additionally, it is very germane to the evaluation of Kerry as a candidate if he goes around calling companies "Benedict Arnold's" and turns around and does not hold the Heinz company, of which he has a considerable interest, to the same regard.

    I agree that her private tax returns are not "any of our business" and she shouldn't be required to make them public. However, the loopholes that Luskin mentions could be an indication of the type of hypocrisy Kerry engages in, and, given that suspicion, coupled with his wife's reluctance to make public what both Cheney and Bush and their wives have already done, is definitely something that could raise legitimate concerns. The "household" tax returns for both guys have been released, Bush and Cheney simply file jointly, not separately, like Kerry and Heinz. So, of the four people (Laura and George Bush, Kerry and Heinz) the only one we don't know about is Heinz, and it is her income and her company to which Kerry has a substantial financial interest, thus, loopholes and rants about tax cheats are very relevant.

    Quite simply, it's no good to run around campaigning against tax cheats if you are one or are married to and actively protecting one that pays for everything in your life. Is it a huge deal? Not really. Do ALL politicians talk out of both sides of their mouths? Yes. Do Kerry's haircuts or lavish spending habits have anything to do with this? No.

    For people like Bitonti, who would rather have anyone but Buhs, this is a non-story. To someone who hates Kerry, this is a non-story. To someone who is still evaluating the character of both candidates, this is a story. You can be "fair" all you want, but think about what guys like Bitonti would say if Bush was married to Teresa Heinz and this story was written. They'd be all over it. The word "Halliburton" is all anyone needs utter to believe any number of awful things about Cheney or ....

  8. #8
    very good post 5ever. As per usual your diagnosis of the situation seems very accurate.

  9. #9
    so with kerry you get some heinz loopholes..Stop the presses!

    you cons are so blind to the truth!
    With Bush/Cheney you get billion dollar uncontested oil contracts to all their Houston based friends!...

  10. #10
    Very good post Jets5, as always.

    The "if she had a job" comment was not meant as a slam at all, although I can see where it could look like one. I was just making the point that Ms. Heinz is very financially active whereas Ms. Bush is completely non-financial.

    While I agree that Politicians giving themselves loopholes sucks, it is a VERY common practice, from both sides. The battle against the so-called "Death-Tax" would be a good example. Getting rid of this tax, something Bush was deeply in support of, is a godsend to folks in his tax bracket, while doing nothing for the Average American. My point was not that Kerry's loopholes are ok, but that BOTH candidates (hell, EVERY candidate) does this sort of thing.

    and regarding her returns, well, the disclosure laws are what they are. Since Kerry files seperately from his wife, there is no reason why she needs to disclose them. She is within the rules and should not have to go further. Again, a comparison could be made with Bush's millitary records, were they still available (last report I heard they were lost).

    Still, a very good post Jets5, good points.

  11. #11
    Wasn't Tereza Heinz a big supporter of the group that was financing the wives of homicide bombers?. I'm pretty sure I remember someone posting an article about that. I'm also sure I havent heard a statement from her on the subject. The FBI should be probing her books for supporting terrorism.

  12. #12
    so?
    The supposed allies of the US..and best friends of President Bush, The Sauds, Held a NATIOnal telethon to raise money for the families of Suicide bombers..
    ...

  13. #13
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 10:57 AM
    [b] Very good post Jets5, as always.

    The "if she had a job" comment was not meant as a slam at all, although I can see where it could look like one. I was just making the point that Ms. Heinz is very financially active whereas Ms. Bush is completely non-financial.

    While I agree that Politicians giving themselves loopholes sucks, it is a VERY common practice, from both sides. The battle against the so-called "Death-Tax" would be a good example. Getting rid of this tax, something Bush was deeply in support of, is a godsend to folks in his tax bracket, while doing nothing for the Average American. My point was not that Kerry's loopholes are ok, but that BOTH candidates (hell, EVERY candidate) does this sort of thing.

    and regarding her returns, well, the disclosure laws are what they are. Since Kerry files seperately from his wife, there is no reason why she needs to disclose them. She is within the rules and should not have to go further. Again, a comparison could be made with Bush's millitary records, were they still available (last report I heard they were lost).

    Still, a very good post Jets5, good points. [/b][/quote]
    Good post, agreed.

    Bush's "lost" military records are definitely suspicious. They're all finks. (sigh)

  14. #14
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 11:08 AM
    [b] so?
    The supposed allies of the US..and best friends of President Bush, The Sauds, Held a NATIOnal telethon to raise money for the families of Suicide bombers..
    ... [/b][/quote]
    Your response is "so"? Your comparing allegations of a potential first lady's ties to terrorism to the Saudi Family's ties to terrorism. Then justifying it by saying that Bush is "best friends" with the Sauds? Is that really your argument? A clear headed person would have responded that maybe Teresa didn't know where her money was going. You, in your response acknowledge that she knowingly supported terrorists and justify it by saying that Bush's so called friends support terror too so its ok. Thats the argument of a simple minded person.

    Heres my advice: go look in the mirror. Ask yourself if this is what you've really become. Maybe everything you've thought up to this point has been wrong. Maybe its time to reconsidder. Maybe you logic thus far in life has been flawed. Maybe the young and naieve should spend more time listening and less time squawking.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 10:57 AM
    [b] Again, a comparison could be made with Bush's millitary records, were they still available (last report I heard they were lost).
    [/b][/quote]
    I thought you wanted to stick to the issues.

    What does the past military service of any president of the US have to do with any current relevant issues?

    Has every past president that has sent troops into harms way, been shot at in combat himself?

    If you are going to chastise us all for our behavior, then why don't you set an example?

  16. #16
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb+Jul 15 2004, 11:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Spirit of Weeb @ Jul 15 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 10:57 AM
    [b] Again, a comparison could be made with Bush&#39;s millitary records, were they still available (last report I heard they were lost).
    [/b][/quote]
    I thought you wanted to stick to the issues.

    What does the past military service of any president of the US have to do with any current relevant issues?

    Has every past president that has sent troops into harms way, been shot at in combat himself?

    If you are going to chastise us all for our behavior, then why don&#39;t you set an example? [/b][/quote]
    Weeb, please try to THINK, or at least READ, before you try to slam next time.....

    Nowhere in my post did I say that Mr. Bush SHOULD or HAD TO find and/or turn over his Millitary records. The comparison I made is this: Requesting Ms. Heinz&#39;s Fiscal data is, IMO, as irrelevant to the issue of who to vote in, as Mr. Bush&#39;s millitary records. It was comparison only, with no requestes or demands for either person being compared.

    But sadly your blind & obviously ignorant dislike of me wins out again. Congrats, you just slammed a guy who supports Bush over Kerry and feels Bush&#39;s Millitary Service records are mostly irrelevant. Nice Job.

  17. #17
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    I don&#39;t buy any of that crap about the Bush military records now convieniently beign destroyed...the fact is his military record was an issue for his opponents in the Texas governor race, the 2000 Presidential race and last winter yet they&#39;ve never been able to prove any wrongdoing.

    They are beating a dead horse and just looking for another angle.

  18. #18
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 12:00 PM
    [b] But sadly your blind & obviously ignorant dislike of me wins out again. Congrats, you just slammed a guy who supports Bush over Kerry and feels Bush&#39;s Millitary Service records are mostly irrelevant. Nice Job. [/b][/quote]
    Challenging your posts and disliking you are two different things.

  19. #19
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Spirit of Weeb+Jul 15 2004, 01:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Spirit of Weeb @ Jul 15 2004, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 12:00 PM
    [b] But sadly your blind & obviously ignorant dislike of me wins out again. Congrats, you just slammed a guy who supports Bush over Kerry and feels Bush&#39;s Millitary Service records are mostly irrelevant. Nice Job. [/b][/quote]
    Challenging your posts and disliking you are two different things. [/b][/quote]
    Your right, they are Weeb. In this case you challenged someone you don&#39;t like without thinking WHAT you were challenging.

  20. #20
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish+Jul 15 2004, 01:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Warfish @ Jul 15 2004, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -Spirit of Weeb@Jul 15 2004, 01:44 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 15 2004, 12:00 PM
    [b] But sadly your blind & obviously ignorant dislike of me wins out again. Congrats, you just slammed a guy who supports Bush over Kerry and feels Bush&#39;s Millitary Service records are mostly irrelevant. Nice Job. [/b][/quote]
    Challenging your posts and disliking you are two different things. [/b][/quote]
    Your right, they are Weeb. In this case you challenged someone you don&#39;t like without thinking WHAT you were challenging. [/b][/quote]
    Oh stop it you big Lug&#33;&#33; I think alot of what you post is just
    to provoke the Board..But I&#39;d have some Beers with ya and go
    Fishing anytime&#33;&#33; ;)

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