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Thread: Ratner is a Joke!!

  1. #1
    I don't want to hear how dealing KMART for 3 1st rounders is a sound business move

    These 3 picks cannot even be lottery picks because they are protected until 2007.

    I am a full fledged Nets fan, have been, and will continue to be. I go to about 5 games a year. However, this schmuck will not see a dime of mine as long as he owns this team.

    J-Kidd will now demand a trade because what does he care if the Nets have a lot of picks in 2007.

    As soon as I was able to get excited about this team for a few years, they begin dismantling it.

  2. #2
    TomShane
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    I am not ready to flip out about Ratner being cheap, yet. KMart is not, and never will be, a "max" player. To panic and give him a max deal would cripple the Nets for years to come. If you give KMart the max, then you cannot piss and moan when Richard Jefferson, who has a higher ceiling than KMart, walks next year.

    I say you dump KMart and get the best deal possible, taking back no salaries that are insane. Let KMart see what life is like without JKidd feeding him the rock every time down. KMart has been exposed badly when Kidd wasn't on the floor as a player whose offense is just downright pitiful, whose defense is tight, and whose rebounding is just OK. Does that sound like a max player to you?

    Ask yourself this- who would you rather have on YOUR team, Ben Wallace or KMart? Is Wallace a max player?

    And as far as Kidd is concerned, if he really wants out of NJ, then you have to let him go. If teams are getting Tracy McGrady for Steve Freaking Francis and Shaq-Fu for Lamar Odom, then it might very well be worth finding out what Kidd can get you back. Hell, Steve Nash is getting 10 million per from the Suns fer Christ's sake.

    Kidd is the same guy, btw, that forced the Nets to waste a ton of dough on Rodney Rogers, made them throw a TON of guaranteed money at Alonzo Mourning, and almost pushed them into signing Antonio McDyess. I'd call Philly and see if they want JKidd for Iverson. If you can field a team with Krstic, Nene, Jefferson, DeJuan Wagner, and Iverson with Plananic, Eddie Gill and whoever comes with Wagner in the Kerry Kittles dump, then you have a decent squad that you can actually pay for down the road.

  3. #3
    Originally posted by TomShane@Jul 15 2004, 12:39 PM
    I am not ready to flip out about Ratner being cheap, yet. KMart is not, and never will be, a "max" player. To panic and give him a max deal would cripple the Nets for years to come. If you give KMart the max, then you cannot piss and moan when Richard Jefferson, who has a higher ceiling than KMart, walks next year.

    I say you dump KMart and get the best deal possible, taking back no salaries that are insane. Let KMart see what life is like without JKidd feeding him the rock every time down. KMart has been exposed badly when Kidd wasn't on the floor as a player whose offense is just downright pitiful, whose defense is tight, and whose rebounding is just OK. Does that sound like a max player to you?

    Ask yourself this- who would you rather have on YOUR team, Ben Wallace or KMart? Is Wallace a max player?

    And as far as Kidd is concerned, if he really wants out of NJ, then you have to let him go. If teams are getting Tracy McGrady for Steve Freaking Francis and Shaq-Fu for Lamar Odom, then it might very well be worth finding out what Kidd can get you back. Hell, Steve Nash is getting 10 million per from the Suns fer Christ's sake.

    Kidd is the same guy, btw, that forced the Nets to waste a ton of dough on Rodney Rogers, made them throw a TON of guaranteed money at Alonzo Mourning, and almost pushed them into signing Antonio McDyess. I'd call Philly and see if they want JKidd for Iverson. If you can field a team with Krstic, Nene, Jefferson, DeJuan Wagner, and Iverson with Plananic, Eddie Gill and whoever comes with Wagner in the Kerry Kittles dump, then you have a decent squad that you can actually pay for down the road.
    I don't think Martin is a max player, but I don't think that matters. With the NBA, seeing as though most teams are over the cap, losing a major piece of your team for nothing is unacceptable. These picks will not be used until 2007 and by then, the Clippers and Wizards may be playoff teams, who knows.

    I think you drastically underestimate Martin's offense. Is he a big time scorer? No. But Players who average 17 points a game simply do not have pitiful offensive games.

    Next season, Mourning and Mutombo come off the books and you would have had plenty left to sign Jefferson too.

    And just because Kidd was advocating deals that did not work out does not mean I'd want to trade the guy. He has been the major reason for their turnaround and the last thing I'd want is to trade him for Iverson. If you want to kill Jefferson's growth in one feld swoop, trade for Iverson.

    The Nets front line now as Shaq enters the conference is the weakest in basketball with no PF and Collins up front.

    As a fan, which Ratner clearly is not, I look at this as their one chance to make a run considering how awful the last 20 years were and they're dismantling it way way too soon.

    Another question, why the hell did we sell our 1st rounder if we weren't going to retain Kenyon?

  4. #4
    CDFLIP78;

    You do make some compelling arguments there.

  5. #5
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    This was the only team to take the Pistons to 7 games in the playoffs. They're not far off. Too bad Ratner has moving as a priority over winning. I can see dealing KMart because of the price, but get me something in return that we can use now. Hopefully something will happen in the FA market.

  6. #6
    The picks are not lottery protected. They are the picks from the Clippers, Sixers and Washington Wizards. They are protected somewhat, but it is not that bad.

    Clippers pick is protected top 14 for 2005
    unprotected 2006

    Philadelphia pick is protected top 8 for 2005
    top 5 in 2006
    unprotected in 2007

    Washington pick is protected top 13 for 2005
    top 3 in 2006
    unprotected in 2007

  7. #7
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    It's too bad what happened for Nets fans. Kenyon may not be a max player, but in today's NBA he is...(In the way that big men get overpaid big time)

    Going to definetly miss him next season, and by the time the Nets retool it might be to late with JKidd's best years behind him.

    Guess nobody wanted Kerry Kittles after all

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Icer@Jul 15 2004, 02:41 PM
    It's too bad what happened for Nets fans. Kenyon may not be a max player, but in today's NBA he is...(In the way that big men get overpaid big time)

    Going to definetly miss him next season, and by the time the Nets retool it might be to late with JKidd's best years behind him.

    Guess nobody wanted Kerry Kittles after all
    If it takes the Nets 2 seasons to re-tool, Kidd may be worn out by then, with all the minutes he's already logged on those knees, and at the speed he plays the game

  9. #9
    TomShane, Andre Miller is no JKidd, but he's also no slouch of a passer himself.

    I cant believe Vanderweigh got KMart without giving up Nene. He should win Exec of the year for that one.

    As for the Nets, I dont know why they didnt get a decent player in return. Maybe they want the cap room to pursue somebody else? Or are they saving money for RJ next season?

    The Nuggets have assembled themselves one heck of a team.

  10. #10
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    K Mart is a good, NOT GREAT, player. A max player gets them past the Pistons, which he didn't do. The Nets don't figure to be competitive for the East title this year with the Pistons and the Heat getting Shaq. So it makes no sense to over pay Martin, unless you want someone with his history of back problems to befoul your cap when it's already a mess carrying Mutumbo and Mouring, who will come off next summer.Can you say ALLAN HOUSTON? I have no idea who will be a free agent next year, but the Nets will have cash aplenty and Kidd and Jefferson as selling points. Martin'll help Carmelo get the Nuggets in the playoffs, but they aren't doing much more than that. As long as Rod Thorn is running the show, him getting 3 more 1st round picks makes it a good deal.

    But if Ratner sends either Thorn or Kidd packing or doesn't go for a big free agent next summer with all that cap room, all bets are off.

  11. #11
    TomShane
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    1) Nenad Krstic is no joke. Look him up.

    2) Kenyon is over-rated and an injury risk. His contract will hamstring the Nug-holes for eternity, and that team won't even be top-5 out West. F Kenyon Martin.

    3) The Nets will now use that money to be in the bidding for a SG that can actually get his own shot. Don't think that the Nets are going to just sit tight. How about Jason Richardson? How about Shawn Marion?

  12. #12
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    There's a difference between giving an almost 30 year old SG a huge contract, and a player not yet in his prime a huge contract.
    Dont hate Kenyon, not his fault Ratner didnt want to pony up the cash and pay luxury tax.

  13. #13
    TomShane
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    Paying Kenyon the max is the same as paying Allan Houston the max. You're basically tying up the franchise in a player that does one thing. Allan shoots, KMart D's it up. Let's see how great he is when he's arm wrestling with Webber and Duncan to rebound Carmelo's misses next year, then we'll see how "worth it" he is.

  14. #14
    Originally posted by TomShane@Jul 15 2004, 09:08 PM
    Paying Kenyon the max is the same as paying Allan Houston the max. You're basically tying up the franchise in a player that does one thing. Allan shoots, KMart D's it up. Let's see how great he is when he's arm wrestling with Webber and Duncan to rebound Carmelo's misses next year, then we'll see how "worth it" he is.
    So why did you give 6 years to an "over-30 " Jason Kidd? All your arguments against Martin could also be made against Kidd, who is starting to break down, and will hamstring the Nets for 5 more years. Same as with Houston and the Knicks.

    At least Martin is only 26, so a 7 year deal leaves him at 33 when all is said and done.

    Too late now anyway. The real proble here is not getting back either Nene or even Camby. The best bet is to go after Rahim, if he is available. But he's not the perfect fit for a Jason Kidd led team. as fast break offense is not his game.

    I see some issues ahead for the Nets. I think they have slipped from the top 3 in the East to a Playoff scrambler, fighting to get in the post-season. Martin was a major part of their defense over the years. See A. Walker and J. O'Neal in 2003 playoffs.

  15. #15
    I totally agree MBN.... whether you feel he was "worth it" or not, is not really an issue to me. He was "worth it" to the Nets, maybe not other teams. However, he was their emotional lightning rod, a great defender, was great on the break, and had a decent offensive game. I refuse to say he was one-dimensional when he has a career scoring average of 15 pts/game. I prayed Kidd would resign last summer and now I feel bad for the SOB (not financially of course). He would have been much better off in San Antonio.

  16. #16
    This marks the end of the Nets run of respectability. This trade signals the window just closed for the Nets. Combined with other moves this off-season and shows just how far (and fast) the team will fall. If the organization had a plan for the off-season that did not include Martin, why trade the 1st round pick for cash? Wasn't there anyone there that could upgrade a position that is now held by Aaron Williams and Brian Scalabrine? Other points for letting him walk:

    1) Nenad Krstic is no joke. Look him up.

    I agree, but this year was an opportunity to add him to a roster of 3 All-stars and make a run for it all.* The Nets were the only team to take the Pistons to 7 this year, and went to the finals the two years before that...they weren't far away.

    2) Kenyon is over-rated and an injury risk.
    Sadly, you could say the same about Kidd. Point is, Martin was a winner that motivated his team who also *gasp* wanted to be a Net. Can you name any other all-stars over the past 30 years that said that while other teams were throwing money at them? He was even classy after signing with Denver, complimenting the organization.

    Bottom line is the Nets were built the last couple of years to take a shot at winning it all, even taking calculated, albeit, large risks on big men that unfortunately did not work out. The new owner seems more interested in real estate development than winning an NBA championship and, unfortunately, the Nets are caught in the middle as a bargaining chip.

  17. #17
    1. Ratner is a scumbag

    2. Any Nets fan who puts a dime in Ratner's pocket is a complete jackass

    3. Now Rod Thorn should turn around and trade J-Kidd & Kittles for draft picks as well ... this team has officially gone from legit contender to rebuilding mode ... the worst thing you can do now is get caught in the middle, trying to rebuild and win at the same time ... DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY ... decide what you are and BE IT ... either you are making a run at the title or you are rebuilding ... accept what you are and BE IT ... right now the Nets are officially a REBUILDING TEAM ... the worst possible scenario is trying to thread water and be a 6-7-8 seed ... F THAT!! ... If you are not a contender for the ring {and this team no-longer is}, then get about the business of rebuilding towards that goal

    J-Kidd is 31 ... by the time this team reaps any reward from those draft picks for K-Mart {IF THEY REAP ANY REWARD!!}, J-Kidd will have long since seen his better days

    It no-longer makes an ounce of sense to hang on to J-Kidd ... certainly from his perspective {I'm sure he want to be on the next plane out of N.J.}, and with this dumb@$$ Martin deal holding on to J-Kidd makes even less sense for the Nets {from a winning perspective, though I'm sure Ratner the scumbag would like to keep Kidd for business reasons, to act as a drawing card}

    Ditto Kittles ... ship him out for a draft pick as well

    Gentleman, the Nets run is officially over ... thanks to Ratner the scumbag ... so we might as well proceed accordingly

    The worst thing you can do in sports, from the F.O., is to start half-steppin!!

    KNOW WHAT YOU ARE AND BE IT!!

  18. #18
    PS. Maybe the Nets can make a run in 2008 ... but this run is OVER

    Oh yeah, and 2008 is only possible if Ratner sells the team ... so long as this scumbag owns the team, this ship be sinkin

  19. #19
    Well said Green.... it's unfortunate because this was not an old team that needed to be broken down. They had a solid 3-4 year window to make a run beyond this past season and the Rat has screwed the fans. How could the NBA even approve of him taking over if he was going to dump players like this?? I spent a fair amount each year on this team and that will not happen again as long as he's the owner.

  20. #20
    Originally posted by cdflip78@Jul 16 2004, 09:19 AM
    Well said Green.... it's unfortunate because this was not an old team that needed to be broken down. They had a solid 3-4 year window to make a run beyond this past season and the Rat has screwed the fans. How could the NBA even approve of him taking over if he was going to dump players like this?? I spent a fair amount each year on this team and that will not happen again as long as he's the owner.
    iagree.

    Kidd/Martin/Jefferson was a solid foundation for the next 2, and possibly 3 years. Add in pieces like a Kittles, a banger in the 5 slot, some scoring off the bench, and you're a serious contender in the East. Shaq or not!

    Now, like GJ&H said, see 'ya in 2008....................maybe. :unsure:

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