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Thread: A Few Words For The Kool Aid Drinkers

  1. #1
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    Enjoy Kerry Supporters! You too Bob the Jets Fan, keep drinking the Kool Aid. This man is an out and out liar and has absolutely no character.


    THE FACTS FROM THOSE THAT SERVED WITH JOHN KERRY DURING HIS "ABBREVIATED" TOUR IN VIETNAM - JUST OVER 4 MONTHS. PASS THIS ALONG SO THAT AS MANY AMERICANS CAN BE AWARE OF THIS MAN'S CHARACTER.







    "We resent very deeply the false war crimes charges he made coming back from Vietnam in 1971 and repeated in the book "Tour of Duty." We think those cast an aspersion on all those living and dead, from our unit and other units in Vietnam. We think that he knew he was lying when he made the charges, and we think that they're insupportable. We intend to bring the truth about that to the American people.

    We believe, based on our experience with him, that he is totally unfit to be the Commander-in-Chief."

    -- John O'Neill, spokesman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

    .



    "I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust -- all absolute tenets of command. His biography, 'Tour of Duty,' by Douglas Brinkley, is replete with gross exaggerations, distortions of fact, contradictions and slanderous lies. His contempt for the military and authority is evident by even a most casual review of this biography. He arrived in-country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future. He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard for specific tactical assignments. He was a 'loose cannon.' In an abbreviated tour of four months and 12 days, and with his specious medals secure, Lt.(jg) Kerry bugged out and began his infamous betrayal of all United States forces in the Vietnam War. That included our soldiers, our marines, our sailors, our coast guardsmen, our airmen, and our POWs. His leadership within the so-called Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testimony before Congress in 1971 charging us with unspeakable atrocities remain an undocumented but nevertheless meticulous stain on the men and women who honorably stayed the course. Senator Kerry is not fit for command."

    -- Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (retired), chairman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

    .



    "During Lt.(jg) Kerry's tour, he was under my command for two or three specific operations, before his rapid exit. Trust, loyalty and judgment are the key, operative words. His turncoat performance in 1971 in his grubby shirt and his medal-tossing escapade, coupled with his slanderous lines in the recent book portraying us that served, including all POWs and MIAs, as murderous war criminals, I believe, will have a lasting effect on all military veterans and their families.

    Kerry would be described as devious, self-absorbing, manipulative, disdain for authority, disruptive, but the most common phrase that you'd hear is 'requires constant supervision.'"

    -- Captain Charles Plumly, USN (retired)

    .



    "Thirty-five years ago, many of us fell silent when we came back to the stain of sewage that Mr. Kerry had thrown on us, and all of our colleagues who served over there. I don't intend to be silent today or ever again. Our young men and women who are serving deserve no less."

    -- Andrew Horne

    .



    "In my specific, personal experience in both coastal and river patrols over a 12-month period, I never once saw or heard anything remotely resembling the atrocities described by Senator Kerry. If I had, it would have been my obligation to report them in writing to a higher authority, and I would certainly have done that. If Senator Kerry actually witnessed or participated in these atrocities or, as he described them, 'war crimes,' he was obligated to report them. That he did not until later when it suited his political purposes strikes me as opportunism of the worst kind. That he would malign my service and that of his fellow sailors with no regard for the truth makes him totally unqualified to serve as Commander-in-Chief."

    -- Jeffrey Wainscott

    .



    "I signed that letter because I, too felt a deep sense of betrayal that someone who took the same oath of loyalty as I did as an officer in the United States Navy would abandon his group here (points to group photo) to join this group here (points to VVAW protest photo), and come home and attempt to rally the American public against the effort that this group was so valiantly pursuing.

    It is a fact that in the entire Vietnam War we did not lose one major battle. We lost the war at home... and at home, John Kerry was the Field General."

    -- Robert Elder

    .



    "My daughters and my wife have read portions of the book 'Tour of Duty.' They wanted to know if I took part in the atrocities described. I do not believe the things that are described happened.

    Let me give you an example. In Brinkley's book, on pages 170 to 171, about something called the 'Bo De massacre' on November 24th of 1968... In Kerry's description of the engagement, first he claimed there were 17 servicemen that were wounded. Three of us were wounded. I was the first..."

    -- Joseph Ponder

    .



    "While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

    Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."

    -- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

    .



    "Lt. Kerry returned home from the war to make some outrageous statements and allegations... of numerous criminal acts in violation of the law of war were cited by Kerry, disparaging those who had fought with honor in that conflict. Had war crimes been committed by US forces in Vietnam? Yes, but such acts were few and far between. Yet Lt. Kerry have numerous speeches and testimony before Congress inappropriately leading his audiences to believe that what was only an anomaly in the conduct of America's fighting men was an epidemic. Furthermore, he suggested that they were being encouraged to violated the law of war by those within the chain of command.

    Very specific orders, on file at the Vietnam archives at Texas Tech University, were issued by my father [Admiral Elmo Zumwalt] and others in his chain of command instructing subordinates to act responsibly in preserving the life and property of Vietnamese civilians."

    -- Lt. Col. James Zumwalt, USMC (retired)

    .



    "We look at Vietnam... after all these years it is still languishing in isolated poverty and helplessness and tyranny. This is John Kerry's legacy. I deeply resent John Kerry's using his Swift boat experience, and his betrayal of those who fought there as a stepping-stone to his political ambitions."

    -- Barnard Wolff

    .



    "In a whole year that I spent patrolling, I didn't see anything like a war crime, an atrocity, anything like that. Time and again I saw American fighting men put themselves in graver danger trying to avoid... collateral damage.

    When John Kerry returned to the country, he was sworn in front of Congress. And then he told my family -- my parents, my sister, my brother, my neighbors -- he told everyone I knew and everyone I'd ever know that I and my comrades had committed unspeakable atrocities."

    -- David Wallace

    .




    "I served with these guys. I went on missions with them, and these men served honorably. Up and down the chain of command there was no acquiescence to atrocities. It was not condoned, it did not happen, and it was not reported to me verbally or in writing by any of these men including Lt.(jg) Kerry.

    In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

    -- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

    .



    "During the Vietnam War I was Task Force Commander at An Thoi, and my tour of duty was 13 months, from the end of Tet to the beginning of the Vietnamization of the Navy units.

    Now when I went there right after Tet, I was restricted in my movements. I couldn't go much of anyplace because the Vietcong controlled most of the area. When I left, I could go anywhere I wanted, just about. Commerce was booming, the buses were running, trucks were going, the waterways were filled with sampans with goods going to market, but yet in Kerry's biography he says that our operations were a complete failure. He also mentions a formal conference with me, to try to get more air cover and so on. That conference never happened..."

    -- Captain Adrian Lonsdale, USCG (retired)

    .



    "I was in An Thoi from June of '68 to June of '69, covering the whole period that John Kerry was there. I operated in every river, in every canal, and every off-shore patrol area in the 4th Corps area, from Cambodia all the way around to the Bo De River. I never saw, even heard of all of these so-called atrocities and things that we were supposed to have done.

    This is not true. We're not standing for it. We want to set the record straight."

    -- William Shumadine

    .



    "In 1971, when John Kerry spoke out to America, labeling all Vietnam veterans as thugs and murderers, I was shocked and almost brought to my knees, because even though I had served at the same time and same unit, I had never witnessed or participated in any of the events that the Senator had accused us of. I strongly believe that the statements made by the Senator were not only false and inaccurate, but extremely harmful to the United States' efforts in Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Tragically, some veterans, scorned by the antiwar movement and their allies, retreated to a life of despair and suicide. Two of my crewmates were among them. For that there is no forgiveness. "

    -- Richard O'Meara

    .



    "My name is Steve Gardner. I served in 1966 and 1967 on my first tour of duty in Vietnam on Swift boats, and I did my second tour in '68 and '69, involved with John Kerry in the last 2 1/2 months of my tour. The John Kerry that I know is not the John Kerry that everybody else is portraying. I served alongside him and behind him, five feet away from him in a gun tub, and watched as he made indecisive moves with our boat, put our boats in jeopardy, put our crews in jeopardy... if a man like that can't handle that 6-man crew boat, how can you expect him to be our Commander-in-Chief?"

    -- Steven Gardner

    .



    "I served in Vietnam as a boat officer from June of 1968 to July of 1969. My service was three months in Coastal Division 13 out of Cat Lo, and nine months with Coastal Division 11 based in An Thoi. John Kerry was in An Thoi the same time I was. I'm here today to express the anger I have harbored for over 33 years, about being accused with my fellow shipmates of war atrocities.

    All I can say is when I leave here today, I'm going down to the Wall to tell my two crew members it's not true, and that they and the other 49 Swiftees who are on the Wall were then and are still now the best."

    -- Robert Brant

    .



    "I never saw, heard of, or participated in any Swift boat crews killing cattle, poisoning crops, or raping and killing civilians as charged by John Kerry, both in his book and in public statements. Since we both operated at the same time, in the same general area, and on the same missions under the same commanders, it is hard to believe his claims of atrocities and poor planning of Sea Lord missions.

    I signed this letter because I feel that he used Swift boat sailors to proclaim his antiwar statements after the war, and now he uses the same Swift boat sailors to support his claims of being a war hero. He cannot have it both ways, and we are here to ask for full disclosure of the proof of his claims."

    -- James Steffes

  2. #2
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    First off, I do not plan to vote for Kerry.

    I have NEVER served a DAY for my country. I may not like Kerry's policies, but I'll be damned if I knock any guy for doing something that I have not had the balls to do. There is a lot to not like about Kerry, but IMO this is not one of them. Knocking him for what he did after serving may be fair, but I won't knock a guy for serving even if he was trying to get out of there. God only knows what I would have done.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Lawyers, Guns and Money[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 10:28 AM
    [b] First off, I do not plan to vote for Kerry.

    I have NEVER served a DAY for my country. I may not like Kerry's policies, but I'll be damned if I knock any guy for doing something that I have not had the balls to do. There is a lot to not like about Kerry, but IMO this is not one of them. Knocking him for what he did after serving may be fair, but I won't knock a guy for serving even if he was trying to get out of there. God only knows what I would have done. [/b][/quote]
    LGM- I agree with just about everything you said but kerri is bringing this on himself. The more he uses his Vietnam service as a rallying cry for his candidacy the more disgruntled vets who served with him and hate his guts are going to come to the forefront.

    kerri wants it both ways- he doesn't want to politicize Vietnam yet he wants to continually talk about his service.

    Someone in an earlier thread made a great point: you didn't see Bob Dole or George H. Bush, both true war hero's, use their military service when campaigning the way you see it now.

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    LGM, okay. But you have proven why the adults need to be in charge during these uncertain times. Cowardice is not acceptable in a person that wants to be our president.

    We SHOULD DEMAND A person with EXCEPTIONAL CHARACTER and STRENGTH. Someone who is not afraid to make the tough decision or unpopular ones.

    We're talking about the President of THE United States not the jets fan club.

    As far as what you would do in that situation.. Well I think you know....

    Let the adults take care of things since you are afraid....

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 10:37 AM
    [b] LGM, okay. But you have proven why the adults need to be in charge during these uncertain times. Cowardice is not acceptable in a person that wants to be our president.

    We SHOULD DEMAND A person with EXCEPTIONAL CHARACTER and STRENGTH. Someone who is not afraid to make the tough decision or unpopular ones.

    We're talking about the President of THE United States not the jets fan club.

    As far as what you would do in that situation.. Well I think you know....

    Let the adults take care of things since you are afraid.... [/b][/quote]
    Ill make my decesion on what I believe is important. His boyhood actions while involved in a war thirty some years ago is not what I will base my decesion on. Like I said, I am not going to vote for Kerry. But, I won't bash any American for serving.

    Your implication of me being childish and cowardly are unwarrented and unfair. Im glad you know so much about me to make these implications. I am also confused as to what exactly I am afraid to take care of. As for my actions in Vietnam, i supposed you would be more impressed if I were to be an interent tough guy and make all sorts of threats as to what I would do if I were over there. Bottom line is I wasn't. I wasn't alive at the time, and it is unfair of me to day how I would likely respond.

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    What I find funny is the comparison to our CURRENT leader....

    Granted, Kerry was likely a poor soldier, who served but not overly well (or for long), and was clearly anti-war when he returned to the States.

    Bush, on the other hand, never served in active duty, and no one can show he actually served at all (since no documentation, and precious few witnesses exist to prove it), was a documented drunk and a rumoured drug user (he is known to have used Cocaine at least once) in his youth, till he convenienty found Christ before he entered politics. He was pretty much a prototypical spolied rich kid, who abused his fathers position (got him out of active duty service) and lived the life of the rich and son-of-famous.

    Sorry, but in this debate Kerry wins out. Kerry clearly was a more civic-minded person in his youth, and while you may disagree whole heartedly with his anti-war stance (the obvious reason so many vets hate him) you cannot equate his service in acation in Vietnam with Bush's binge drinking, partying and general non-service in that time period.

    And btw, if you think atrocities (including murder, torture and rape) were NOT performed by US forces in Vietnam, you clealy live with your head in the sand.

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    UMM..BUsh has NO character..
    PLEASE repugs...YOu lost the COURAGE battle..Kerry serevd TWO tours....Bush was at a frat house.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 11:57 AM
    [b] Bush was at a frat house. [/b][/quote]
    While Horse Face burned down peasant's homes.....

    How honorable..... Horse Face should be brought before the Hague......

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 11:53 AM
    [b]
    Bush, on the other hand, never served in active duty, and no one can show he actually served at all (since no documentation, and precious few witnesses exist to prove it), [/b][/quote]
    This is a false statement. "Never served at all?" Are you kidding me? The controversy is over "gaps" in his record of service, not whether or not he served at all. He was a fighter pilot and flew in many training missions. There is no doubt about this fact among informed people.

    Yes, his military record is not comparable to Kerry's, that point is apt. But please don't imply that no one can prove that Bush served at all, because it's just not true.


    The annoying thing, to me, is that the same party whose supporters and members spat upon soldiers during Vietnam and who called them baby-killers and worse (while MY FATHER was still in country, facing danger, no less) grew up to be the ones who defended a draft-doger against HW Bush (a pilot who was shot down in combat) and against Bob Dole (a man who WAS injured in war to the point where he couldn't go snowboarding or play the guitar for photographers). Kerry HIMSELF stated during the 1996 campaign that Bill Clinton's record of non-service shouldn't be an issue, yet he now champions his service every time someone brings up the fact that he voted to authorize the Iraq War, yet voted against funding those soldiers who are actually fighting it. He wants to use his war experience as something which would prevent him from sending soldiers to war "needlessly" but he, in fact, did that with his vote in Iraq, if his current rhetoric is to be believed, yet he compounded this error by undermining their chances of success by voting against the $87 funding.


    Fisher - atrocities such as rape and pillaging occur in every war. The problem with Kerry's testimony before Congress is that it was clearly and blatantly political oppotunism of the worst kind, at the expense of those still in country, all for Kerry's political career. Had he actually seen everything he says he did, why didn't he name any names, since he said it went up far on the chain of command? Why stop at merely one public outcry? Why don't prove your sever allegations, since a grave problem is still going on? If he was as outraged as he pretended to be, why has he still refused to name any names or proved ANY specific detaios about the dozens of charges he has levelled? It's because he is NOT concerned about solving some problem, and only was concerned with gaining celebrity and leveraging his "credibility" as a veteran to say anything and everything without the annoying aspects of providing details or evidence of his claims. He simply said it, gained notoriety and repsect among lefties, and didn't follow through. Mission accomplished, with that mission being whatever is good for John Kerry at the time. He called my father a child-killer and a rapist while my father was still facing the hostile fire that Kerry fleed from after a few months and some bacitracin. Bacitracin!

    Ask yourself this question - for a guy who campaigns on his service record and three Purple Hearts, why has Kerry not released his medical records from that time? Why is he so secrective as to the nature and extent of his three injuries? How many days of duty did he miss for each injury?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 10:53 AM
    [b] What I find funny is the comparison to our CURRENT leader....

    Granted, Kerry was likely a poor soldier, who served but not overly well (or for long), and was clearly anti-war when he returned to the States.

    Bush, on the other hand, never served in active duty, and no one can show he actually served at all (since no documentation, and precious few witnesses exist to prove it), was a documented drunk and a rumoured drug user (he is known to have used Cocaine at least once) in his youth, till he convenienty found Christ before he entered politics. He was pretty much a prototypical spolied rich kid, who abused his fathers position (got him out of active duty service) and lived the life of the rich and son-of-famous.

    Sorry, but in this debate Kerry wins out. Kerry clearly was a more civic-minded person in his youth, and while you may disagree whole heartedly with his anti-war stance (the obvious reason so many vets hate him) you cannot equate his service in acation in Vietnam with Bush's binge drinking, partying and general non-service in that time period.

    And btw, if you think atrocities (including murder, torture and rape) were NOT performed by US forces in Vietnam, you clealy live with your head in the sand. [/b][/quote]
    Heres the issue with this. I also agree when you compare Bush's past to Kerry's past, Kerry wins out...at least his atrocities were caused while serving our country. No argument there.

    But like a lot of posters say, a presidents personal life shouldnt be the peoples business. Whether it happened today or 20 years ago, its none of our business. Not sure if I agree with this totally, but thats the way a lot of people feel about this. So essentially, none of this stuff from the 70's should be our business.

    The problem comes in when Kerry brings up the war. Bush never brings up he was in a frat and stuff (which would be rpetty dumb if he did), so to bring up that info would just be a straight attack on Bush, for he didnt bring out some falsity that he was an angel in college. Kerry, on the other hand, continually discusses how he was a war hero and has two Purple Hearts. So if he did anything wrong in the War, hes opened himself up to criticism.

    If he wouldve said he served and didnt flaunt it, then there is no need to expose. But this guy is trying to send people a false message that he was a war hero, etc...its only fair that he is exposed for being a fraud.

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    You misunderstand me I think Jets5. I do not, nor will I ever, debate the fact that Kerry is an ABYSMAL choice for President of the USA. My issue is those claiming Bush is such a moral standout while Kerry is evil. Simply put, Bush was a drunk and a lout until, as I said, he conveniently found God before starting his political career.

    I do not debate most of your post at all. What I debate is the claims of moral superiorism that abounds on this forum from the Bush fans. Bush abused the system of the time to get out of serving (as Clinton did as well). When he wasn't doing that, he was a drunk and a Cocaine user (which is fine, if he didn't become so two-faced and hypocritial in his current drug policies).

    Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who's FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush's less-than-noble service of that time.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 12:21 PM
    [b]

    Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who's FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush's less-than-noble service of that time. [/b][/quote]
    Bush flew an F-102 fighter.....

    You might want to get your facts straight before you post Warfish.....

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by New England Hick+Jul 19 2004, 12:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (New England Hick @ Jul 19 2004, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 12:21 PM
    [b]

    Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who&#39;s FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush&#39;s less-than-noble service of that time. [/b][/quote]
    Bush flew an F-102 fighter.....

    You might want to get your facts straight before you post Warfish..... [/b][/quote]
    And where, exactly, did he fly that F-102?? Oh, right, NOT in Vietnam. My point was WHERE he flew and WHY, not WHAT he flew.

    What, you thought I was going to spend three hours researching the online world to find out specifically which weaponless trainer Bush flew?? I don&#39;t think so, the joke is WHERE, not WHAT. (

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 12:21 PM
    [b] Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who&#39;s FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush&#39;s less-than-noble service of that time. [/b][/quote]
    IMO, coming home from combat, bad mouthing your government and stabbing your fellow servicemen in the back is "less than noble".

    Glad to see your still debating the issues.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish+Jul 19 2004, 12:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Warfish @ Jul 19 2004, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -New England Hick@Jul 19 2004, 12:48 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 12:21 PM
    [b]

    Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who&#39;s FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush&#39;s less-than-noble service of that time. [/b][/quote]
    Bush flew an F-102 fighter.....

    You might want to get your facts straight before you post Warfish..... [/b][/quote]
    And where, exactly, did he fly that F-102?? Oh, right, NOT in Vietnam. My point was WHERE he flew and WHY, not WHAT he flew.

    What, you thought I was going to spend three hours researching the online world to find out specifically which weaponless trainer Bush flew?? I don&#39;t think so, the joke is WHERE, not WHAT. ( [/b][/quote]
    Bush went through six weeks of basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Tex...... Then he underwent 53 weeks of flight training full time at Moody Air Force Base in Valdosta, Ga..... Then he underwent 21 weeks of fighter interceptor training at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston......

    Bush then began a period of frequent, usually weekly flying.... The missions Bush flew were training flights..... mostly over the Gulf of Mexico and often at night, in which pilots took turns being the predator and the prey....

    Maybe you call that flying a cessna two seater around Texas....

    I don&#39;t....

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 11:57 AM
    [b] UMM..BUsh has NO character..
    PLEASE repugs...YOu lost the COURAGE battle..Kerry serevd TWO tours....Bush was at a frat house. [/b][/quote]
    2 Tours?? A Tour in Nam was a Year..Even Kerry said he was in
    Nam for 4 months..I think Kerry could use you on his Staff&#33;&#33; :lol:

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish+Jul 19 2004, 12:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Warfish @ Jul 19 2004, 12:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -New England Hick@Jul 19 2004, 12:48 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 12:21 PM
    [b]

    Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who&#39;s FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush&#39;s less-than-noble service of that time. [/b][/quote]
    Bush flew an F-102 fighter.....

    You might want to get your facts straight before you post Warfish..... [/b][/quote]
    And where, exactly, did he fly that F-102?? Oh, right, NOT in Vietnam. My point was WHERE he flew and WHY, not WHAT he flew.

    What, you thought I was going to spend three hours researching the online world to find out specifically which weaponless trainer Bush flew?? I don&#39;t think so, the joke is WHERE, not WHAT. ( [/b][/quote]
    Who gives a s**t where he flew the jet. The point is to compare his service to Clinton&#39;s draft dodging is insulting. The man served his country. Service in the national guard is honorable. Flying a fighter jet is dangerous on its own. Flying one in Vietnam wasn&#39;y particularly more dangerous than flying one in texas. They didn&#39;t exactly have Vietnamese Jets to dogfight with. Just because Moore and friends try to portray GW as a draft dodging bufoon doesn&#39;t mean you should buy into the story. It doesn&#39;t even mean that theres any truth at all to it.

  18. #18
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by New England Hick+Jul 19 2004, 01:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (New England Hick @ Jul 19 2004, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -Warfish@Jul 19 2004, 12:51 PM
    [b] [quote]Originally posted by -New England Hick@Jul 19 2004, 12:48 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin--Warfish[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 12:21 PM
    [b]

    Flying a Cesna 2-seat trainer around Texas is NOT serving Jets5. As someone who&#39;s FATHER put his life on the line when he was in-country, I would think you would agree with that, and be equally outraged at Bush&#39;s less-than-noble service of that time. [/b][/quote]
    Bush flew an F-102 fighter.....

    You might want to get your facts straight before you post Warfish..... [/b][/quote]
    And where, exactly, did he fly that F-102?? Oh, right, NOT in Vietnam. My point was WHERE he flew and WHY, not WHAT he flew.

    What, you thought I was going to spend three hours researching the online world to find out specifically which weaponless trainer Bush flew?? I don&#39;t think so, the joke is WHERE, not WHAT. ( [/b][/quote]
    Bush went through six weeks of basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Tex...... Then he underwent 53 weeks of flight training full time at Moody Air Force Base in Valdosta, Ga..... Then he underwent 21 weeks of fighter interceptor training at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston......

    Bush then began a period of frequent, usually weekly flying.... The missions Bush flew were training flights..... mostly over the Gulf of Mexico and often at night, in which pilots took turns being the predator and the prey....

    Maybe you call that flying a cessna two seater around Texas....

    I don&#39;t.... [/b][/quote]
    First, thank you for showing how FAR Bush was from the war, even though he clearly was qualified to fly combat mission, based on your info.

    Second, where did you get your info? A source would be nice, so I can have an idea of it&#39;s credabillity.

    Your right, if he did what you claim, I DON&#39;T call if flying a Cesna........I call it flying a Jet over Texas as a way of doing whatever it takes to keep his drunk arse away from the War.

  19. #19
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    Warfish,

    The truth is that Bush Got His Wings during late 1971. The troops began coming home in large numbers at that time. My father was in the engineering battalion that was the first to come home in 1972. So the possibility of Bush serving as a combat pilot was severely diminished.

    BTW, all politicians are sc_ _ bags and these two were overprivileged spoiled rich boys. The difference ? Kerry is a practicing LIAR who has been tripped up tim and time again. Now he plays politics with the very survival of our great country by denying &#036;87 billion to support our brave folks in IRAQ that are killing these TERRORISTS everyday. AND THEY ARE TERRORISTS that want to kill you, me and everyone they can in this country.

  20. #20
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST[/i]@Jul 19 2004, 01:26 PM
    [b] Warfish,

    The truth is that Bush Got His Wings during late 1971. The troops began coming home in large numbers at that time. My father was in the engineering battalion that was the first to come home in 1972. So the possibility of Bush serving as a combat pilot was severely diminished.

    BTW, all politicians are sc_ _ bags and these two were overprivileged spoiled rich boys. The difference ? Kerry is a practicing LIAR who has been tripped up tim and time again. Now he plays politics with the very survival of our great country by denying &#036;87 billion to support our brave folks in IRAQ that are killing these TERRORISTS everyday. AND THEY ARE TERRORISTS that want to kill you, me and everyone they can in this country. [/b][/quote]
    The truth is that GW Bush turned 18 on July 6th, 1964.....

    The truth is that US Forces Starting Building-up in 1961 (mostly advisors)

    The turth is that US Ground Forces started showing up in 1965

    The truth is that the Draft was Started in 1969

    The truth is the War eneded (US Forces All Out) in 1973.

    So, between 1965 (Bush age 19) and 1973 (Bush age 27) GW Bush never flew a single combat mission. He never fired a shot in anger, and what he DID do is still very much up for debate. Since his records are either missing or released by his own office (and why would they lie, right?), his "service" is very much in question during this time period.

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