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Thread: Hezbollah: Sponsored by Iran

  1. #1
    Tom The Nader Fan™
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    Intensified fighting between Israel, Hezbollah kills three
    Enemies trade blame in Lebanon as Israeli general warns Syria, Iran
    Associated Press

    BEIRUT, LEBANON - Israeli soldiers clashed with Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas along the border Tuesday, leaving two soldiers and one guerrilla dead and prompting an Israeli general to threaten Hezbollah and its sponsors — Syria and Iran.


    The renewed fighting, the most serious in months, followed a bombing Monday in Beirut that killed a veteran Hezbollah commander.

    Hezbollah blamed Israel for the assassination, but the Israeli army denied involvement.

    Israel and Hezbollah traded blame Tuesday over who started the fighting. Lebanon's government complained to the U.N. Security Council about the attacks, saying Israel violated Lebanese airspace, killed a Lebanese guerrilla fighter and caused material damage, a Foreign Ministry official said on condition of anonymity.

    Unlike most of the previous clashes, Tuesday's incidents were far from the disputed Chebaa Farms, where Israel and Hezbollah frequently exchange gunfire.

    The Israeli army said two soldiers died Tuesday and helicopter gunships attacked Hezbollah positions.

    Witnesses in southern Lebanon said two Israeli helicopters fired rockets at guerrillas near the border village of Aita Shaab, about nine miles southeast of coastal Tyre. Later, an Israeli helicopter targeted the same area, security officials said.

    The Lebanese security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said an Israeli tank fired on a Hezbollah position near Aita Shaab, killing one guerrilla. Hezbollah returned fire across the border. Israeli helicopter gunships later fired back, the officials said.

    A Hezbollah statement said the guerrilla was killed by an Israeli tank shell targeting a Hezbollah observation post near Aita Shaab late Tuesday morning.

    Israeli helicopters then attacked another observation post at nearby Ramia, but there were no casualties or damage, Hezbollah said.

    The militant Shiite Muslim group vowed it would "choose the time and place for a deterrent response to make the enemy understand that aggression against the security and blood of our people would be very costly."

    In Israel, Maj. Jacob Dallal of the military spokesman's office said Hezbollah fired first at an Israeli border post and Israeli military action responded to the "provocation."

    Later, Maj. Gen. Benny Gantz, the Israeli area commander, said the day was not "far away" when Israel would "act widely, severely."

    "I don't believe Hezbollah will be the only address at that time. I think this is a matter of state responsibility, and these two countries (Syria and Iran) that host and direct financing and training Hezbollah organization will end up paying its price," he said.

  2. #2
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    they are the enemy of Isreal..and yes, they are sponsored by Iran..But the US and Isreal are two different countries..and Isreal is quite capable of fighting iyt's own battels..
    we did not attack the ira when they bombed england..we do not crack down on etta for bombing spain...

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 08:45 AM
    [b] they are the enemy of Isreal..and yes, they are sponsored by Iran..But the US and Isreal are two different countries..and Isreal is quite capable of fighting iyt's own battels..
    we did not attack the ira when they bombed england..we do not crack down on etta for bombing spain... [/b][/quote]
    bman,

    Are you sure it was ETA that bombed that train in Spain?

    Also - who bombed the marine barracks in Lebanon all those years ago? I forget which terror group that was....can you enlighten me?

    Let me ask you this - did you examine every issue that you mention or have ever expressed a view on (war on terror, Israel, abortion, taxes, gay marriage, affirmative action, globalization, global warming, war on drugs, gun rights, death penalty, etc) and then realize that the Democratic Party and you were 100% consistent? Or, did you sort of always grow up around Democrats and agreed on a few things, and have now simply adopted whatever stance they have on an issue?

    I don't mean to be rude, but I've never seen you come even close to considering the possibility that the Democrats could be "wrong" on a single aspect of a single issue, and I've NEVER seen you criticize a single democrat, and have NEVER seen you agree with or even offer faint praise to any single Republican or conservative. I hate to get all preachy and Warfished-out on you (hugs 'n' kisses, Fisher ;) ) but do you really see the world in such terms? Dems = 100% infallible, GOP = 100% fallible?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Jul 27 2004, 08:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever @ Jul 27 2004, 08:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 08:45 AM
    [b] they are the enemy of Isreal..and yes, they are sponsored by Iran..But the US and Isreal are two different countries..and Isreal is quite capable of fighting iyt&#39;s own battels..
    we did not attack the ira when they bombed england..we do not crack down on etta for bombing spain... [/b][/quote]
    bman,

    Are you sure it was ETA that bombed that train in Spain?

    Also - who bombed the marine barracks in Lebanon all those years ago? I forget which terror group that was....can you enlighten me?

    Let me ask you this - did you examine every issue that you mention or have ever expressed a view on (war on terror, Israel, abortion, taxes, gay marriage, affirmative action, globalization, global warming, war on drugs, gun rights, death penalty, etc) and then realize that the Democratic Party and you were 100% consistent? Or, did you sort of always grow up around Democrats and agreed on a few things, and have now simply adopted whatever stance they have on an issue?

    I don&#39;t mean to be rude, but I&#39;ve never seen you come even close to considering the possibility that the Democrats could be "wrong" on a single aspect of a single issue, and I&#39;ve NEVER seen you criticize a single democrat, and have NEVER seen you agree with or even offer faint praise to any single Republican or conservative. I hate to get all preachy and Warfished-out on you (hugs &#39;n&#39; kisses, Fisher ;) ) but do you really see the world in such terms? Dems = 100% infallible, GOP = 100% fallible? [/b][/quote]
    Why even bother?

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    5..I&#39; don&#39;t consider myself a dem or a repub..BUT I do agree more with the dem platform than the repubs...
    but that is the problem with thgis country..How can there only be two schools of thought&#33; That&#39;s why politics suck..But I still don&#39;t know how or why we have to be so tilted towards Isreal..THAT Issue MUST be addresseds....and the &#39;anti semites&#39; crap is so rediculous just becasue someone disaggrees with out policy toward isreal..

    as clinton said last night...:you can&#39;t possibly KILL or Jail all of your enemies...".....There are a Billion muslims in the world who hate the US for many reasons..BUT OnE CLEAR reason isd our policy in the ME with regards to isreal and palestine..../

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 09:13 AM
    [b] 5..I&#39; don&#39;t consider myself a dem or a repub..BUT I do agree more with the dem platform than the repubs...
    but that is the problem with thgis country..How can there only be two schools of thought&#33; That&#39;s why politics suck..But I still don&#39;t know how or why we have to be so tilted towards Isreal..THAT Issue MUST be addresseds....and the &#39;anti semites&#39; crap is so rediculous just becasue someone disaggrees with out policy toward isreal..

    as clinton said last night...:you can&#39;t possibly KILL or Jail all of your enemies...".....There are a Billion muslims in the world who hate the US for many reasons..BUT OnE CLEAR reason isd our policy in the ME with regards to isreal and palestine..../ [/b][/quote]
    bman - name one issue in which you agree with the GOP platform and why (if you are so inclined).

    What do you think the USA and Israel could do to appease the muslims?

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    Bman you are a left wing democrat. What you considder yourself is irelevant. Your ramblings are those of a typical left wing appeaser. "The terrorists are Angry about our policys so we should change them". Typical appeasement. I have news for you. You can get as excited as you want about Clintons speech. Clinton isn&#39;t running. I like Clinton. He&#39;d be a viable option for me.

    The problem is that Kerry is running. He&#39;s an arrogant windbag with a stick up his ass. He&#39;s anti-defense and anti intelligence. He would make this country weak. Thats why all those "foreign leaders" are pulling for him. They are vying for the top superpower spot currently occupied by us. Their agenda is for a weak USA. When the USSR was around they were all real happy to be our allies but now that we vanquished that threat the Europeans are back to their old power hungry ways.


    I went off on a tangent there.

  8. #8
    Tom The Nader Fan™
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 09:13 AM
    [b] ..and the &#39;anti semites&#39; crap is so rediculous just becasue someone disaggrees with out policy toward isreal..
    [/b][/quote]
    Anti semitism was never broached in this thread. Why introduce it, now?

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    how am i an appeaser..I want to go and kill al qeada all around the world...BUt you know what..baathists in iraq have as much in common with islamic fundamentalists as you do.....thinking the iraq war was a mistake doesn&#39;t make me an appeaser....
    as i said before..there are a BILLION muslims in the world..you have to live with them..you have to repsect them...you can&#39;t allow isreal to keep taking their land and force them to live as animals...
    AT the SAME time, you cannot allow palestinians to engage in terrorism..those two policies should be the policy of the US..

  10. #10
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    How is Israel taking their land and forcing them to live as animals?

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    isreal occupies palestinian land..isreal forces palestians to go through check points..Isreal is building a wall through palestinian land..cutting neighborhoods off from neighbnorhoods..forcing farmers to not be able to farm their own land...forcing children to take two hours to get to school...stopping aMBULANCES AND CHECKING THEM FOR BOMBS....there&#39;s no dignity in that kind of life...they live in a zoo...of course they will be raised to hate..

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 09:39 AM
    [b] isreal occupies palestinian land..isreal forces palestians to go through check points..Isreal is building a wall through palestinian land..cutting neighborhoods off from neighbnorhoods..forcing farmers to not be able to farm their own land...forcing children to take two hours to get to school...stopping aMBULANCES AND CHECKING THEM FOR BOMBS....there&#39;s no dignity in that kind of life...they live in a zoo...of course they will be raised to hate.. [/b][/quote]
    Those animals are blowing themselves up every day and you criticize Israel for defending itself? Do you think that if the animals weren&#39;t constantly trying to murder innocent women and children that Israel would still have to build a wall and set up check points? If it werent for the fact that Israel has consistently found Palestinian terrorist animals using abulances to transport guns and terrorists they wouldn&#39;t need to check out the ambulances. Do you understand that Barak offered Arafat 99% of his demands in 2000 including joint controll of Jerusalem and Arafats response was to initiate the intifada which continues to this day?

    If they werent murdering and blowing themselves up everyday Israel would not need to "check them for bombs". You have exactly zero knowledge on this subject yet you try to make points on it. Your a left wing talking point appeaser. You and Tereza the terrorist supporter can both "shove it" .

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 09:39 AM
    [b] isreal occupies palestinian land..isreal forces palestians to go through check points..Isreal is building a wall through palestinian land..cutting neighborhoods off from neighbnorhoods..forcing farmers to not be able to farm their own land...forcing children to take two hours to get to school...stopping aMBULANCES AND CHECKING THEM FOR BOMBS....there&#39;s no dignity in that kind of life...they live in a zoo...of course they will be raised to hate.. [/b][/quote]
    Okay.


    So, bman, did all of these check-points and "walls" and things happen before or after Palestinian homicide bombers began blowing up Israeli children? Does the fact that Palestinian homicide bombers use ambulences to transport weapons and terrorists to and from attacks have anything to do with the fact that the Israelis are stopping them and checking them? What "dignity" do the Israelis have if they have to live in fear of being blown to bits by an explosive that is laden with nails every time they eat in a cafe or ride a bus to work?

    What "Palestinian land" does Israel "occupy?" Are you referring to the West Bank and Gaza? Did you know those lands were part of the original Israeli proper, and were conquered by force by the arabs and held for over 15 years by Egypt and the Kingdon of Transjordan, during which time they slaughtered the Jews who had been living there for over 3500 years, and drove others out, and countinued to use those lands as a base from which to attack Israel? Did you know that the Arabs still launched aggressive wars against Israel while they controlled those lands? Do you appreciate the strategic importance of those lands in terms of how they facilitate aggression against Israel and leave it almost utterly exposed to attack, if not in their control? Do you understand that the only reason Israel "occupiues" those lands today is because the Arabs launched yet another war against Israel in the late 60&#39;s, only to lose contol of those strategically important areas? Now, since they realize that conventional might will fail, the muslims have turned to PR and the plight of the Palestinians to put diplomatic pressure on the Israelis, and it has largely worked, since people like you have bought it hook, line and sinker.

    You can rightly claim that anti-semitism is thrown around unfairly, and yes, Israel does go overboard in its defenses, IMO. But anti-semitism is a a legitimate, and huge aspect of why their is strife in the ME and terrorism against the West. Muslims hate and want to kill all jews, or, if they don&#39;t, they have no problem being represented by factions of muslims who hate and want to kill all jews. This is pretty much acknowledged and accepted, and every time someone talks about "understanding" or "dialogue" or a "peace process" no one EVER mentions the obvious fact that until Muslims stop trying to kill Jews, things aren&#39;t going to change. The Jews were butchered and exiled from almost all areas of the ME, and TO THIS VERY DAY are not allowed to live in the majority of muslim arab countries. This is just something that non one ever mentions or talks about or even faults muslim arabs for. They are violently racist towards Jews. Jews are not that way towards msulim arabs, hell, a million muslim arabs live in Israel. The Jews do not go around bombing muslim buildings in tons of different countries, or talk about wiping all of the muslims off of the face of the earth. They respond to terrorist attacks aggressively, sometimes too aggressively and without much care for collateral damage. Only 50 years ago, the Europeans tried to wipe out the jewish race, and the Muslims slaughtered them and drove them out of places they had been living for thousands of years. Even to this very day, the same Europeans who cooked them in ovens fund the groups that are bombing Israeli children, and coddle the dictators of unfriendly muslim arab nations, while denouncing the jews for defending themselves too aggressively at times, knowing full-well that arabs won&#39;t allow jews to live in their countries and if they did, the jews would be severely mistreated. Kofi Annan condems every jewish reprisal and the security barrier (or fence or wall or whatever) yet has never [i]once[/i] denounced Palestinian terrorism or the rhetoric of "moderate" muslims who speak of &#39;final victories&#39; or &#39;driving the jewish dogs to the sea.&#39; Whem Mamoud Abbas was briefly named as Arafat&#39;s "successor" he was hailed as a "moderate" world-wide, and even by our media. This is a man who wrote a thesis paper on holocaust denial and the Great Myth of the holocaust. France, meanwhile, has a population that is about 10% muslim, and is growing rapidly to which point it will be almost 25% in the next ten years or so (depending on whose estimate you believe). Do you think that fact, and the fact that their muslims are not assimilating one bit (notice the ban on head scarves, etc), has anything to do with the French position vis a vi Israel and Iraq, etc? (In addition to profiteering from the Oil for Food scandal, curbing American geopolitical machinations, etc).

    Just some things to think about, bman. It&#39;s a horner&#39;s nest, to be sure. But it is not even close to being as one-sided asyou present it to be....

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Jul 27 2004, 10:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever @ Jul 27 2004, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bman[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 09:39 AM
    [b] isreal occupies palestinian land..isreal forces palestians to go through check points..Isreal is building a wall through palestinian land..cutting neighborhoods off from neighbnorhoods..forcing farmers to not be able to farm their own land...forcing children to take two hours to get to school...stopping aMBULANCES AND CHECKING THEM FOR BOMBS....there&#39;s no dignity in that kind of life...they live in a zoo...of course they will be raised to hate.. [/b][/quote]
    Okay.


    So, bman, did all of these check-points and "walls" and things happen before or after Palestinian homicide bombers began blowing up Israeli children? Does the fact that Palestinian homicide bombers use ambulences to transport weapons and terrorists to and from attacks have anything to do with the fact that the Israelis are stopping them and checking them? What "dignity" do the Israelis have if they have to live in fear of being blown to bits by an explosive that is laden with nails every time they eat in a cafe or ride a bus to work?

    What "Palestinian land" does Israel "occupy?" Are you referring to the West Bank and Gaza? Did you know those lands were part of the original Israeli proper, and were conquered by force by the arabs and held for over 15 years by Egypt and the Kingdon of Transjordan, during which time they slaughtered the Jews who had been living there for over 3500 years, and drove others out, and countinued to use those lands as a base from which to attack Israel? Did you know that the Arabs still launched aggressive wars against Israel while they controlled those lands? Do you appreciate the strategic importance of those lands in terms of how they facilitate aggression against Israel and leave it almost utterly exposed to attack, if not in their control? Do you understand that the only reason Israel "occupiues" those lands today is because the Arabs launched yet another war against Israel in the late 60&#39;s, only to lose contol of those strategically important areas? Now, since they realize that conventional might will fail, the muslims have turned to PR and the plight of the Palestinians to put diplomatic pressure on the Israelis, and it has largely worked, since people like you have bought it hook, line and sinker.

    You can rightly claim that anti-semitism is thrown around unfairly, and yes, Israel does go overboard in its defenses, IMO. But anti-semitism is a a legitimate, and huge aspect of why their is strife in the ME and terrorism against the West. Muslims hate and want to kill all jews, or, if they don&#39;t, they have no problem being represented by factions of muslims who hate and want to kill all jews. This is pretty much acknowledged and accepted, and every time someone talks about "understanding" or "dialogue" or a "peace process" no one EVER mentions the obvious fact that until Muslims stop trying to kill Jews, things aren&#39;t going to change. The Jews were butchered and exiled from almost all areas of the ME, and TO THIS VERY DAY are not allowed to live in the majority of muslim arab countries. This is just something that non one ever mentions or talks about or even faults muslim arabs for. They are violently racist towards Jews. Jews are not that way towards msulim arabs, hell, a million muslim arabs live in Israel. The Jews do not go around bombing muslim buildings in tons of different countries, or talk about wiping all of the muslims off of the face of the earth. They respond to terrorist attacks aggressively, sometimes too aggressively and without much care for collateral damage. Only 50 years ago, the Europeans tried to wipe out the jewish race, and the Muslims slaughtered them and drove them out of places they had been living for thousands of years. Even to this very day, the same Europeans who cooked them in ovens fund the groups that are bombing Israeli children, and coddle the dictators of unfriendly muslim arab nations, while denouncing the jews for defending themselves too aggressively at times, knowing full-well that arabs won&#39;t allow jews to live in their countries and if they did, the jews would be severely mistreated. Kofi Annan condems every jewish reprisal and the security barrier (or fence or wall or whatever) yet has never [i]once[/i] denounced Palestinian terrorism or the rhetoric of "moderate" muslims who speak of &#39;final victories&#39; or &#39;driving the jewish dogs to the sea.&#39; Whem Mamoud Abbas was briefly named as Arafat&#39;s "successor" he was hailed as a "moderate" world-wide, and even by our media. This is a man who wrote a thesis paper on holocaust denial and the Great Myth of the holocaust. France, meanwhile, has a population that is about 10% muslim, and is growing rapidly to which point it will be almost 25% in the next ten years or so (depending on whose estimate you believe). Do you think that fact, and the fact that their muslims are not assimilating one bit (notice the ban on head scarves, etc), has anything to do with the French position vis a vi Israel and Iraq, etc? (In addition to profiteering from the Oil for Food scandal, curbing American geopolitical machinations, etc).

    Just some things to think about, bman. It&#39;s a horner&#39;s nest, to be sure. But it is not even close to being as one-sided asyou present it to be.... [/b][/quote]
    As allways a well thought out and clear post. Kudos.

  15. #15
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    What happens in Israel should not be the concern of the United States

    this war is in some ways another example of the Israeli foreign policy goals merging with the American foreign policy goals - yeah it&#39;s great for Israel that Iraq is gone and Iran is next - but as far as actual terrorism that affects America the difference of a world without Saddam or Iran is negligable - the real enemies are in Saudi Arabia but no one seems to care as they support our economy with their oil.

    as for Hezbollah if we want to talk about what they did 30 years ago to the US why don&#39;t we talk about Israel&#39;s cowardly attack of the USS Liberty also around 30 years ago?


    the bottom line is Hamas, Hezbollah, whatever, they are not our problem. They are Israel&#39;s problem and last i checked Israel is not a state in the United States.

  16. #16
    Tom The Nader Fan™
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 11:44 AM
    [b] What happens in Israel should not be the concern of the United States

    this war is in some ways another example of the Israeli foreign policy goals merging with the American foreign policy goals - yeah it&#39;s great for Israel that Iraq is gone and Iran is next - but as far as actual terrorism that affects America the difference of a world without Saddam or Iran is negligable - the real enemies are in Saudi Arabia but no one seems to care as they support our economy with their oil.

    as for Hezbollah if we want to talk about what they did 30 years ago to the US why don&#39;t we talk about Israel&#39;s cowardly attack of the USS Liberty also around 30 years ago?


    the bottom line is Hamas, Hezbollah, whatever, they are not our problem. They are Israel&#39;s problem and last i checked Israel is not a state in the United States. [/b][/quote]

    If Israel wanted to sink the USS LIberty because according to you, they had to destroy evidence that they accumalate about a mass execution of Egyptian prisoners :lol: why didn&#39;t they?

    If it was so imperative to sink that ship, why&#39;d they stop bombing it after 15 minutes?

    Duh, I went to Bedoin college and I was a substitute teacher in Philadelphia. Duh.

  17. #17
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Tom The Nader Fan™[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 06:40 PM
    [b]
    Duh, I went to Bedoin college and I was a substitute teacher in Philadelphia. Duh. [/b][/quote]
    dude you don&#39;t agree with me that&#39;s cool but personal attacks aren&#39;t cool <_<

  18. #18
    Tom The Nader Fan™
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jul 27 2004, 07:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jul 27 2004, 07:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tom The Nader Fan™[/i]@Jul 27 2004, 06:40 PM
    [b]
    Duh, I went to Bedoin college and I was a substitute teacher in Philadelphia. Duh. [/b][/quote]
    dude you don&#39;t agree with me that&#39;s cool but personal attacks aren&#39;t cool <_< [/b][/quote]
    What&#39;s John Kerry&#39;s stand on Saudi Arabia? Same as Cynthia McKinney?

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