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Thread: religion of hypocrisy strikes again

  1. #1
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    Bishop Indicted on Child Rape Charges

    1 hour, 18 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!


    By ADAM GORLICK, Associated Press Writer

    SPRINGFIELD, Mass. - Bishop Thomas Dupre, the former head of the Springfield Diocese, was indicted on child rape charges, accused of molesting two boys in the 1970s, the county prosecutor said Monday.


    AP Photo



    He becomes the first Roman Catholic prelate indicted in the sex abuse scandal within the American church.


    Dupre, 70, resigned Feb. 11 after nine years as head of the diocese, one day after The Republican newspaper of Springfield confronted him with allegations he abused two boys while he was a parish priest. Dupre cited health reasons for his departure. He retains the title of bishop.


    The indictment was handed up Friday by a grand jury but unsealed Monday, said Hampden County District Attorney William Bennett.


    Dupre's lawyer, Michael Jennings, did not immediately return a call for comment. Mark Dupont, a spokesman for the Diocese of Springfield, said Dupre's successor, Bishop Timothy McDonnell, would have no immediate comment.


    McDonnell took over the diocese in April with a promise to heal the wounds inflicted by the sex abuse scandal. Since McDonnell's installation, the diocese has reached a $7 million settlement with 46 people who say they were abused by priests.


    There have been at least a dozen grand jury investigations involving how bishops dealt with abuse claims, and four other U.S. bishops have resigned after being accused of sexual misconduct.


    Dupre's alleged victims, who also are suing the cleric and the diocese, have said Dupre sexually abused them for years and asked them to keep quiet about the abuse when he was made auxiliary bishop in 1990. He became bishop in 1995.


    When he announced he was bringing the case to a grand jury, Bennett initially said the statute of limitations on the alleged abuse had likely expired. But Bennett later said charges were possible because Dupre allegedly tried to conceal the abuse recently.


    After his retirement, Dupre went to St. Luke Institute, a private Catholic psychiatric hospital in Maryland where the Boston Archdiocese sent many priests for treatment after sexual abuse allegations were made against them. The institute treats priests with emotional, behavioral and psychological problems.


    Dupre's whereabouts Monday were not immediately known.


    One of the men, who immigrated to America in 1975, said the abuse began when he was 12 after his family was befriended by Dupre. The man claimed the abuse lasted until he began dating a girl in high school.


    Dupre allegedly took him on out-of-state trips and to Canada, and bought pornography with the boy in Connecticut. Dupre is then accused of starting to abuse the other boy. The second victim says he was abused until he was about 20.


    Four other U.S. bishops have resigned after being accused directly of sexual misconduct since the scandal erupted in Boston in early 2002.


    Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert Weakland asked the Vatican (news - web sites) to speed up his retirement after it was learned that the archdiocese paid a $450,000 settlement to a man who said Weakland sexually assaulted him. Bishop J. Kendrick Williams of Lexington, Ky., resigned after he was accused of abusing two minors decades ago allegations he denied. Bishop Anthony O'Connell of Palm Beach, Fla., quit after admitting he repeatedly abused a student at a Missouri seminary he led. Auxiliary Bishop James McCarthy of New York, who stepped down after admitting to affairs with women.


    Roderick MacLeish, the lawyer representing the two men who accuse Dupre, has said one of his clients met with Dupre in December, and said he never wanted sexual relations with him. MacLeish said Dupre gave an unemotional apology, and told his client he wanted to remain friends.


    The other client, who is gay, came forward with his claims after hearing Dupre speak out against the legalization of same-sex marriage.





    MacLeish did not immediately return a call seeking comment on Monday.

  2. #2
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    This is horrible, horrible stuff that this Irish-Catholic guy wishes would never, ever happen again. I wish that I knew what the causes of this behavior on such a large scale are - I find it morally reprehensible and particularly evil, coming as it did from a member of the clergy.

    That being said, I take particular offense to you calling Catholicism "The Religion of Hypocrisy." It would be akin to you calling the USA the "Country of Liars" because of your well-documented disagreements with the current administration. If you were consistent with your thoughts, you'd actually see why many people feel that you are anti-American. Do I feel that this priest is a complete scumbag? YES. Do I feel that child molestation is/was a problem within the Catholic Church? Despite my wishes and prayers, it is most certainly so. Do I feel that the acts of a few fallen priests sounds the death knell of my religion? While it certainly dirties our reputation, I don't think that it does.

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    The overwhelming majority of Catholics are horrified at this behavior. Probably a number so close to approaching 100% that is is pratically 100%. Yet, no comparable percentage of Muslims or followers of Islam feel such horror towards homicide bombings, beheadings, and the general mutilation of innocent "infidels" or terrorism in general. THAT is the major difference. It is not news that bad people exist and do bad things. It is also not news that members of certain groups do bad things, some of which are in direct contrast to the values ostensibly held by each member of that group. No, the way to judge the members of a goup or religion is in their REACTIONS to said nefarious deeds. And in this regard, Catholics come out smelling like roses compared to Muslims...this is virtually an inarguable point and you KNOW it, bman.

    Also, this has to do with the actions of priests, not everyday lay people. It is not the imams themselves who strap bombs to their belts and rip apart the bodies of infants with nail-laden explosives...they merely encourage such activity. Catholic priests are not telling their congregations to go out and molest members of other religions or anything...

    Humanity is flawed, otherwise, these stories are largely unrelated. Your attempt at equivocation is as transparent as it is flawed.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by edcopp[/i]@Sep 27 2004, 04:03 PM
    [b] This is horrible, horrible stuff that this Irish-Catholic guy wishes would never, ever happen again. I wish that I knew what the causes of this behavior on such a large scale are - I find it morally reprehensible and particularly evil, coming as it did from a member of the clergy.

    That being said, I take particular offense to you calling Catholicism "The Religion of Hypocrisy." It would be akin to you calling the USA the "Country of Liars" because of your well-documented disagreements with the current administration. If you were consistent with your thoughts, you'd actually see why many people feel that you are anti-American. Do I feel that this priest is a complete scumbag? YES. Do I feel that child molestation is/was a problem within the Catholic Church? Despite my wishes and prayers, it is most certainly so. Do I feel that the acts of a few fallen priests sounds the death knell of my religion? While it certainly dirties our reputation, I don't think that it does. [/b][/quote]
    I saw a show on HBO's America Undercover called Celibacy and it tried to explain why celibate priests were more likely to molest children than the general population. Here is a link to the page.

    [url=http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/celibacy/index.html]http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/celibacy/index.html[/url]

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    Bman's argument is actually a case study in liberal justification. On one hand we have the Muslims who according to an al Jazeera poll support beheadings and kidnapings by a margin 96%.

    I doubt any Catholics support child abuse (other than the small few that perpetrate those crimes). The rest find it horrifing. Yet Bman sees some similarities between the two.

    Liberals justify many of their arguments using this type of logic. For example putting underwear on prisoners heads is as bad as beheading innocent hostages.

    The liberals will sink to any low to try to prove their argument. They start with their conclusion and work backwards to find evidence.

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    Has anyone noticed that there seems to be a correlation between the gradual yet growing climate of tolerance towards homosexuality and the rapid, steady decline in the aggregate number of Catholic priests in this country? I have absolutely no hard data that proves my point, other than a judgmental analysis that these two things are related in some way. As we become more accepting of gays, we produce less priests. It's interesting, anyway, even if it is a huge [i]post hoc ergo propter hoc[/i] fallcacy that my father would kill me for applying so generally....

    Think about it - 60 years ago, what was the best thing for a gay Cathlic male to do? Become a priest, surely, was one "solution." Now, the stigma is nowhere near what it used to be.

    [b]Section[/b], not only am I likely to believe that celibate males are more likely to be abusers than non-celibates, I am also very likely to believe that there is a higher rate of homosexuality among priests than there is in the general population...especially priests over the age of about 50.

    Thoughts?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Sep 27 2004, 04:17 PM
    [b] Has anyone noticed that there seems to be a correlation between the gradual yet growing climate of tolerance towards homosexuality and the rapid, steady decline in the aggregate number of Catholic priests in this country? I have absolutely no hard data that proves my point, other than a judgmental analysis that these two things are related in some way. As we become more accepting of gays, we produce less priests. It's interesting, anyway, even if it is a huge [i]post hoc ergo propter hoc[/i] fallcacy that my father would kill me for applying so generally....

    Think about it - 60 years ago, what was the best thing for a gay Cathlic male to do? Become a priest, surely, was one "solution." Now, the stigma is nowhere near what it used to be.

    [b]Section[/b], not only am I likely to believe that celibate males are more likely to be abusers than non-celibates, I am also very likely to believe that there is a higher rate of homosexuality among priests than there is in the general population...especially priests over the age of about 50.

    Thoughts? [/b][/quote]
    That was all discussed in the documentary. I don't remember all the specifics, and HBO doesn't list it as comming on again. But yes I agree with your analysis.

    I also think that living in the type of environment priests live in is also a factor. Think of it like a prison population, people can become homosexual simply because there are no females. Also add on the taboo factor. Humans love testing the limits. Subconsciously these priest may feel the urge to act out because they know they are not supposed to. In an effort to supress their hormones they may shy away from women, but inadvertantly steer their desire towards men or boys. Some people get turned on when they think they are being "naughty."

    Sexual perversions are rampant and always have been. They just aren't talked about enough and a lot of people get confused.

    I think the problem was worse in a more repressed society. Hopefully, things will improve over time. One thing the Catholic Church could do is to remove the celibacy requirement.

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    It appears some peoples feathers got ruffled by the documentary.

    [url=http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=%5CCulture%5Carchive%5C200407%5CCUL20040701a.html]http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Pag...L20040701a.html[/url]

    [i]Donahue compares Thomas to filmmaker and liberal activist Michael Moore, who makes politically charged films that distort the truth.

    Donohue said Celibacy is an affront to truth-telling about the Catholic Church in the same way that Moore's Fahrenheit 911 is an affront to truth-telling about the war in Iraq.

    "Both are masterpieces of deception and propaganda," Donohue said in a press release.[/i]

  9. #9
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    I found a good forum here discussing the documentary if anyone is interested.

    [url=http://hbostandard.forums.liveworld.com/thread.jspa?threadID=300000261&tstart=0&start=-1]http://hbostandard.forums.liveworld.com/th...tart=0&start=-1[/url]

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Sep 27 2004, 02:55 PM
    [b] I found a good forum here discussing the documentary if anyone is interested.

    [url=http://hbostandard.forums.liveworld.com/thread.jspa?threadID=300000261&tstart=0&start=-1]http://hbostandard.forums.liveworld.com/th...tart=0&start=-1[/url] [/b][/quote]
    Thanks Section....

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    As a Catholic, if the charges are true, string him up. As Christ said, better to put a big rock around your neck and go swimming than mess with children.

    Celibacy was only instituted in the Middle Ages to keep priests' families from taking possession of church property as their own. It's more than outlived it's usefulness, as has the ban on female priests. While many priests are true to their oath, there were too many effeminate men who went in with the idea that this was a comfortable life for a closeted gay man. And for any person to decide at 18 or 20 that they can renounce sex for life would seem to be grounds to question their sanity rather than a selling point. In the New York Archdiocese, they caught a monsignor fooling around with a lady, and sent him packing the next day. But when they catch these perverts, they suddenly send them off to a far away diocese for "counseling". No one can explain that-if you actually go with a woman, you're done; if you take up with a man, get counseling.

    If they allowed mature men and women, established in the community and parish to act as priests we'd be in much better shape. In Africa and Latin America, that's already what's done, as is the case with Chaldean and Maronite Catholics faithful to the Pope. And Anglican and Episcopal priests who convert and are married are allowed to stay married. You can get procedures and safeguards in place to prevent people from expropriating property. but these bishops have fed so long at the trough they can't concieve that this SOP is going the way of the dinosaur. And the Church will change, but for the better.

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