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Thread: So.....Who Won DEBATE I???

  1. #1
    I did catch chunks of it, and Bush appeared rather Angry and frustrated with Mr. Kerry. Kerry looked his normal, personality-less self, although he did come accross as more composed/less frustrated. I did think Bush's verbal "oopsie" when he meant to say Bin Laden, and said Saddam instead (he does that alot doesn't he?) may hurt him a little, at least in the short-term. But Kerry misspoke a few times too, so maybe not.

    So far, the news networks are calling it a bit of a Kerry Victory, but remember, they also said Gore won the first debate last year (until about three days after, when they started saying Bush won).

  2. #2
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    It was pretty bad. I don't think any blood was drawn.

    I think the incumbant always looks a little Angry because their record is under attack.

  3. #3
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Piper[/i]@Sep 30 2004, 10:05 PM
    [b] It was pretty bad. I don't think any blood was drawn.

    I think the incumbant always looks a little Angry because their record is under attack. [/b][/quote]
    VERY good point Piper. Bush did indeed seem much more on the defensive, and you are correct, it is his record under attack, not Kerry's. So it IS to be expected that Bush would seem more defensive/frustrated/angered.

    Watching FoxNews now, and as expected, their talking heads are (mostly) saying Bush crushed Kerry. Sometimes Partisan politics REALLY makes me laugh...one channel says Kerry crushed Bush, the next, Bush crushed Kerry.....LOL! :lol:

    It will all come down to "spin" over the next few days (and again after the rest of the debates). It always does.

  4. #4
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    Basically a draw. But that "global test" thing will haunt Kerry. We need a hall pass from France to defend ourselves as per Jean Francois. Don't understand how Kerry is allowed to pretend he doesn't have a record in the Senate-in which he's been wrong on almost every issue-support of nulcear freeze, opposing Reagan and every weapons system known to man, and so on. if this scumbag had his way, Baghdad would look like the fall of Saigon all over again.

    Incidentally, he along with 98 other Senators voted against the Kyoto/global warming treaty he tonight tried to hammer Bush for opposing. And "Treblinka Square" is in Poland, if there is one.

  5. #5
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    I thought it was a sound victory for John Kerry. Bush brought nothing to the table and kept repeating jabs at Kerry throughout the debate. Bush also stumbled a few times and looked like he truly had no clue what he was talking about. And while Kerry outlined a plan to get us out of Iraq, Bush never told us of any plan he has to change the way things are going in Iraq. This debate was on foreign policy, supposedly Dubya's forte, but you couldn't tell that tonight.

  6. #6
    TomShane
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    Knowing that these two nitwits are the only options for President is the same as knowing that we can only play the Super Bowl if it's the 49ers vs. the Dolphins. Just pathetic.

  7. #7
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    One impression I got tonight and have gotten before is basically this.

    John Kerry is trying to win the 2000 election.

    His entire stance on foreign policy is wrought with would'ves, should'ves, could'ves. I think somebody needs to tell him that if he wins the election that time won't be set back four years so that we never would've invaded Iraq yet. Live in the present, John. We're in Iraq. You can whine all you want about how we shouldn't have gone but the fact remains that we're there, and we can't just up and leave. So either offer something constructive for the present situation or just continue to stand there thumping your hand on the podium repeating ad nauseum "I have a plan on Iraq" for all I care. Other than that, despite what people make it out to be I think it was a very vanilla debate, that's caused nobody to change their minds either way. But who knows?

  8. #8
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by YorkPAJetsFan[/i]@Sep 30 2004, 11:29 PM
    [b] we can't just up and leave [/b][/quote]
    did you not watch or tune out early? he said that, specifically - 'not leave iraq, but win'.

  9. #9
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by isired+Sep 30 2004, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (isired @ Sep 30 2004, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-YorkPAJetsFan[/i]@Sep 30 2004, 11:29 PM
    [b] we can&#39;t just up and leave [/b][/quote]
    did you not watch or tune out early? he said that, specifically - &#39;not leave iraq, but win&#39;. [/b][/quote]
    Yeah, I recall that line. But it seems his blurred multi-national path to a "win" kind of brings things full circle and starts over. If you "start over" on Iraq then all that stuff he says about our guys dying in vain he&#39;ll make true.

  10. #10
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    Yikes I cant believe I&#39;m posting in the Political forum...oh well.

    I think you guys make too much over a couple phrases like "global test" or a misspeak like Saddam instead of Osama. Thats for the campaign workers to blow up into something. What people want to see in the debates is the candidates mannerisms, their background, their knowledge, their ability to think on the run, to defend their ideas and attack the others.

    I must say I felt tonight gave me a reason to vote for John Kerry rather than ABB (anybody but Bush). I was pleased with his performance tonight.

  11. #11
    Im voting for Bush but tonight he stumbled on questions he should have known the answers to. If i heard the words " diversion" or "wrong war,wrong time,wrong place" again out of his mouth i was gonna puke,at one point i wasn&#39;t even sure he knew he was at a debate :blink: i have had times where i couln&#39;t remember what the F*CK i was talking about but only after a HUGE BONG session&#33;

    John Kerry lobbed up easy quotes that Bush should have smashed out of the park,instead he fumbled every time he had a chance,got sidetracked and then never made his point.

    John Kerry has been coached well,the key word is coached.

  12. #12
    Bush looked like garbage but Kerry really needed to hit a homerun and he didn&#39;t.

    John Kerry actually said "we can&#39;t leave a failed Iraq."

    What the F does that mean? If it&#39;s a failure you LEAVE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

    Kerry STILL flip-flops.

    This is like two weeks ago when Kerry suddenly became anti-war and the Democrats responded positively. Thing is it only lasted two days.

    Enjoy the ether, Dems. A few days from now you&#39;re back to square one.


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  13. #13
    Regardless of the "insights" losers like [color=pink][b]Christina Mattews[/b][/color] (Wiffleball host on MSNBC) want to jam down the public&#39;s throats regarding tonight&#39;s debate, here&#39;s the real deal:

    Tonight, we saw a matching pair of corporate stoodges toe the "corporate line" of the current 1 party system by basically discussing nothing.....Just some polite Iraq bickering, as if they were a pair of hapless chickens pecking at each other in jest.

    When Nader and Buchanan were forcibly held out of the 2000 debates by armed guards (Perot was excluded in 1996), Al Snore and Jorge Arbusto were able to go through an entire debate without mentioning the word "corporation" once. That&#39;s not once, as in zero&#33;

    Can you say these clowns have been bought?

    I didn&#39;t catch the entire debate, but the only non Iraq stuff I caught these 2 lemmings talking about was their daughters.

    Let me guess, the term "corporate welfare" or word "corporation" didn&#39;t come up at all tonight--ala 2000 :rolleyes:

  14. #14
    As a Nader voter I don&#39;t have a big stake in this debate but judging from what the network pundits are saying I get the impression that no one was giving Kerry any kind of a chance in tonights debate in the first place. They just never publicly said it. He did better than they thought he was going to do but that doesn&#39;t say much.

    That&#39;s why I don&#39;t see how Kerry managed to help himself at all in the long run - the election is still over a month away&#33;

    Kerry still can&#39;t separate himself from his past voting record and public statements. Just yesterday on Good Morning America Kerry took a 3 dimensional position on Iraq.

    Bush didn&#39;t have to win - all he had to do is prevent Kerry from wining and from what I say Kerry didn&#39;t win. Kerry has a pulse but he didn&#39;t win&#33;


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  15. #15
    I don&#39;t bother to watch the debates cause I already know the candidates positions

    The debates are for two reasons .....

    1. For those who haven&#39;t already taken the time to learn about the candidates positions

    2. For those who view a presidential campaign as a form of entertainment, or prefer style over substance {i.e. who looks the best, sweats the least, is the most articulate, or any number of shallow reasons to select a president}

    Thankfully I fall into neither category, so I take a pass on the debates

    It&#39;s a DOG & PONY SHOW for which I have no interest

  16. #16
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    [quote][b]Im voting for Bush but tonight he stumbled on questions he should have known the answers to. If i heard the words " diversion" or "wrong war,wrong time,wrong place" again out of his mouth i was gonna puke,at one point i wasn&#39;t even sure he knew he was at a debate i have had times where i couln&#39;t remember what the F*CK i was talking about but only after a HUGE BONG session&#33;

    John Kerry lobbed up easy quotes that Bush should have smashed out of the park,instead he fumbled every time he had a chance,got sidetracked and then never made his point.

    John Kerry has been coached well,the key word is coached. [/b][/quote]



    I agree with you. There were so many things Bush could have come back with in his rebuttal, but didn&#39;t. I think Kerry was saying something about the respect he has always had for U.S. troops and what not, and I was begging Bush to come back with "we&#39;ll you didn&#39;t seem to respect them when you were calling them baby-killers and murderers in Vietnam.


    For some reason Bush just looked exhausted, and like he was getting frustrated and trying to defend himself. Even though Kerry was talking loads of BS, to the average voter who has no idea of his record, he sounded like somebody who knew what he was talking about. I&#39;ll give Kerry a slight edge on this one but this doesn&#39;t change the fact that I&#39;m going to vote for Bush. I already know their platforms so I don&#39;t need a image contest to tell me otherwise, which is basically what the debate has become. Both sides complaining about what camera angle they want, and how the lighting is, or whatever will make them look good.



    Kerry said a lot of things that were either factual wrong or misleading. For instance, made reference to the fact that the NYC subways were closed during the RNC, when in fact they were open the whole time. Or as MSNBC pointed out, he exaggerated #&#39;s when he said 200 billion has already been spent on Iraq when its been more in the figure of 120 billion.



    Bush needs to be a little more composed for the next debate

  17. #17
    The network talking heads last night were giving Kerry the victory. However, they gave him the victory for style. They said that Bush had the upper hand on the subtance. Still, they gave the W to Kerry.

    This morning they seem to backing away a little from the W they gave to Kerry.


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  18. #18
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    No offense to undecided voters, but anyone who votes solely based on a viewing of debates is likely driving a car for which they drastically overpaid.

  19. #19
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Mavrik[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 07:44 AM
    [b] [quote][b]Im voting for Bush but tonight he stumbled on questions he should have known the answers to. If i heard the words " diversion" or "wrong war,wrong time,wrong place" again out of his mouth i was gonna puke,at one point i wasn&#39;t even sure he knew he was at a debate i have had times where i couln&#39;t remember what the F*CK i was talking about but only after a HUGE BONG session&#33;

    John Kerry lobbed up easy quotes that Bush should have smashed out of the park,instead he fumbled every time he had a chance,got sidetracked and then never made his point.

    John Kerry has been coached well,the key word is coached. [/b][/quote]



    I agree with you. There were so many things Bush could have come back with in his rebuttal, but didn&#39;t. I think Kerry was saying something about the respect he has always had for U.S. troops and what not, and I was begging Bush to come back with "we&#39;ll you didn&#39;t seem to respect them when you were calling them baby-killers and murderers in Vietnam.


    [/b][/quote]
    You are both right on with this point...as far back as 2000 there were several opportunities for GWB to slam Gore in those debates and he didn&#39;t. He does not like to hit under the belt and there were several opportunities last night to make kerri look foolish that went unchecked.

    As Warfish stated, in 2000 the morning after everyone initially said Gore won the first debate a week late GWB was "declared" the winner; the same will happen here.

    One-by-one people will realize things kerri is saying are false, MSNBC went through a bunch last night (accusing the administration of spending &#036;200 billion on Iraq when the cost is a little more than half that figure; kerri took the liberty of adding &#036;75 billion more, most of which was a congress approved emergency fund for Afgahnistan/Iraq in which a dime has not been spent).

    kerri is a major concern to my mind...I get the idea from last night the guy thinks once OBL is caught the war on terror is over. Incinuating that attacking Iraq was not a good idea cause it would inflame OBL will come around to haunt him as well.

  20. #20
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    What I think was one of the most important things that took place last night was that Kerry was lobbed softballs by the "impartial" moderator. To the contrary one of the toughest questions thrown at President Bush was as to the character of Kerry. I think the President handled that attempt to make him look mean and spiteful quite deftly, he complimented Kerry&#39;s service, and most of his family :lol: .

    Kerry&#39;s obvious lack of respect towards the President was embarrassing, refering to him as "he" in a distainful tone on at least one occassion.

    Kerry being allowed to wander all over the map, and avoid specifics probably led to the expression on Bush&#39;s face, I have the same expression when I listen to John Kerry.

    Kerry did better then I thought he would, to the casual observer, but if you really listen to what he says, he says nothing. He has a plan...we will have new allies if he is President...nukes in Russia will be gone in 4 years...give me a break.

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