Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33

Thread: Farenheight 911

  1. #21
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    574
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 02:37 PM
    [b] I insulted you only when you deserved it, 4th, cause you were being intentionally moroinc when you first began posting here. But, you have proven to be a serious-minded person who simply happens to be wrong about a lot of tihngs. ;) I don't casually insult people, even bman. Ask him or any others here about my demeanor. If they are honest, I think I'd come out OK. I loathe and don't tolerate stupidity and am an arrogant, know-it-all bastard, sure, but I am not one that's quick to anger.

    [/b][/quote]
    I was only kidding. And yes, I admit, I did deserve the insult. I just think that CBTNY and Hick deserve it a lot more than some of the "lib" people out here.

    I may be wrong sometimes, 5ever, but its hard work. It really is. Its hard work.

    Have a good weekend, buddy. Come back and Monday and celebrate the Jets squishing the fish.

  2. #22
    [quote][b]I can honestly say that 5ever is one of the more patient and polite conservatives on this or any board. He is usually the last person to insult anyone. [/b][/quote]

    Jets5 is, put simply, the single most fair and open minded poster on this board. While he is a Conservative. clearly, he is willing to look at and explore the other side before making his judgements. He is the single best debater I have met on this board, hands down.

    And you're ok too Chiefs :P :lol:

  3. #23
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    574
    [quote][i]Originally posted by chiefst2000[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 02:51 PM
    [b] I can honestly say that 5ever is one of the more patient and polite conservatives on this or any board. He is usually the last person to insult anyone. [/b][/quote]
    5ever is one of the more thought provoking conservatives on the board, yes. Sometimes he does resort to name calling. I was only kidding. Be calm, my friends and have a good weekend. See you Monday for more of the same.

    GO JETS!

  4. #24
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 02:55 PM
    [b] [quote][b]I can honestly say that 5ever is one of the more patient and polite conservatives on this or any board. He is usually the last person to insult anyone. [/b][/quote]

    Jets5 is, put simply, the single most fair and open minded poster on this board. While he is a Conservative. clearly, he is willing to look at and explore the other side before making his judgements. He is the single best debater I have met on this board, hands down.

    And you're ok too Chiefs :P :lol: [/b][/quote]
    :wub:

    OK enough of this love fest. Lets get back to the fighting!

  5. #25
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    This is getting a little McGreevled-out around here....

    4th - funny line about the hard work.


    fisher and chiefs - thank you.

  6. #26
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jetsfaninCO+Oct 1 2004, 03:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jetsfaninCO @ Oct 1 2004, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vinny025[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 12:43 PM
    [b] Moore is god? I dont know about that, but I will buy the movie on the 5th for sure. I am kinda neutral, but I will tell you that i&#39;m voting for Kerry. Reason being me and my wife are a military family and are very tired of being deployed for 9 months out of the year apart from each other, in some place we dont need to be where there is nothing but sand for miles............oh and some oil beneth the surface....(wink) [/b][/quote]
    Vinny, Then get out of the Military. You were not forced to join the military you signed your name without anyone making you do so. I guess you thought you were going to ride out your enlistment without anything happening and you would enjoy the good life and get out and go to college on Uncle Sam&#39;s dime. You know what, you may not see your wife for 9 months at a time, but be glad you get to see her. The sick bastards that you are fighting took 3,000 inocent lives who will never get to see their families again. Let me guess you are going to say well Saddam had nothing to do with 911. I say you keep listening to fat head Moore and pretty soon you will be taking your Military orders from France.
    Yes, I have been in the Military and served my country proud in Desert Storm and was actually deployed to the middle east for 2 years. I am currently working for the Gov&#39;t and have been to Iraq and all over the middle east more than you can imagine. [/b][/quote]
    WHOA WHOA WHOA...DO you know VINNY? He is one of the most patriotic motherfukkers you will ever meet. The guy is a gung ho soldier. He is allowed to express his opinion since HE IS THE ONE GETTING SHIPPED TO IRAQ. HE IS ON THE FRONT LINE....not you today. I applaud your service but you are not on those frontlines today AND remeber that you did not have to deal with snipers or Al Qaeda or even beheadings in the Original Gulf war.

    Also, there were NO IRAQUIS who flew that plane into the twin towers. DO you remember that it was the SAUDIS and AL QAEDA...Not Iraqis.

    Vinny has the right to ***** about deployment..why? BECAUSE HE IS THE POOR GUY BEING SENT TO IRAQ...NOT YOU. But thank you for serving those two years in the Gulf.

    LL

    And before you say I am a Kerry supporter...no I am undecided as of now

  7. #27
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Naples FL
    Posts
    44,947
    Interesting conversations..I do agree 5ever is the fairest Political Poster
    on the Board&#33; Here&#39;s the thing with Vinny and other young GI&#39;s..JFK once
    said; Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for
    your Country..I did 4 years in the 60&#39;s..There was a Draft then but I enlisted&#33;
    Today it&#39;s a Volunteer Military&#33; Allot of people joined to see what their Country
    could do for them&#33; Anyone that is in the service and believes Michael Moore&#39;s
    BS should get out as soon as possible&#33; I can understand Vinnys problem being
    separated from his wife..But why did they both join?? I was out of the Service
    before Kerry..I saw first hand on Cavett and Senate hearings what this POS
    did while we still had troops in Battle..Not to mention meeting with the North
    Vietnamese in Paris when he was still a Naval Officer..The fact the Dem&#39;s even
    nominated this POS amazes me..I know of no one except for Kerry that has Video
    of themselves in the service..Kerry bothers Old Vets like myself and Hermanator
    more then People that weren&#39;t alive then..Just to Fair and Balanced though..Once
    you watch Fahrenheit 9-11..Also rent Farenhype 9/11 [url=http://www.minerals.net/fahrenhype-9-11.html]http://www.minerals.net/fahrenhype-9-11.html[/url]

  8. #28
    Jets Insider VIP
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    31,408
    [quote][i]Originally posted by GangGreen63[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 01:22 PM
    [b] [quote][b]chiefst2000 Posted on Oct 1 2004, 09:03 AM
    Michael Moore represents all that is wrong with the hard core left wingers in this country. Him and his ilk are the main reasons that I have shifted more toward republicans
    [/b][/quote]

    Tell me what is wrong with exposing the truth? [/b][/quote]
    Nothing&#39;s wrong with exposing the truth...of course if one believes fatasses half-cocked stories are the truth then there is something wrong with that person.

    Nevermind time-after-time documentation has been posted on this board showing how Moore-on twisted stories or outright lied to make his movie, just study a little bit about his past and tell me fatass is driven by the "truth" rather then his own agenda...

  9. #29
    Tom The Nader Fan™
    Guest
    [quote][i]Originally posted by latinlawyer[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 04:44 PM
    [b]
    Also, there were NO IRAQUIS who flew that plane into the twin towers. DO you remember that it was the SAUDIS and AL QAEDA...Not Iraqis.

    [/b][/quote]
    Atta was an Egyptian.

  10. #30
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,530
    A reminder of how Kerry takes exaclty the wrong lesson form Vietnam. Gelertner incidentally was one of the victims of Ted Kasinsky&#39;s mail bombs.

    Another Vietnam?
    From the October 11, 2004 issue: What is the "lesson of Vietnam"?
    by David Gelernter, for the Editors
    10/11/2004, Volume 010, Issue 05


    JOHN KERRY is famously hard to pin down; you can reach out to grasp his opinion only to find that it has flitted away like a bashful butterfly, or a goldfish you are trying to catch with your bare hands. But nowadays his pronouncements and campaign ads are easy to read. They suggest that Iraq is like Vietnam; that our top priority is accordingly not to win but to get out. John Kerry evidently believes, a propos Vietnam, that we should have run away sooner. Many Americans disagree. Many Americans believe that we should have stood by our friends until a free and stable South Vietnam had taken root.

    What is the "lesson of Vietnam"? It&#39;s a hard question, in a way; virtually all Americans agree that Vietnam was a tragedy and a national humiliation--and, at least during the years when William Westmoreland was in command, a badly fought war. Kerry seems to believe that these propositions lead to only one possible conclusion. By shouting "Vietnam&#33;" he thinks he can induce desperation and make Americans turn in horror to the Democrats begging for relief, begging to be pulled out of this awful quagmire. His mistake is something like Abu Musab al Zarqawi&#39;s. I don&#39;t say Kerry is like Zarqawi, of course not. But Zarqawi believes that by committing barbarities on videotape, he has made Americans tremble with fear; in fact we are trembling with rage. (And someday this mistake will be vividly brought home to him.) Kerry believes that by saying "we are facing another Vietnam," he can frighten people; and some Americans will indeed be frightened. Far more will say: If this be Vietnam, make the most of it. Let&#39;s do it right this time.

    President Bush should announce: You want to talk Vietnam? Fine, let&#39;s talk. Kerry believes that Iraq is turning into a Vietnam-like "quagmire"; the assertion is false, and it&#39;s important that voters know why it is false. But there is a more important, deeper-lying disagreement under the surface. Bush obviously stands with the large contingent of Americans who are determined that, if we ever did face another Vietnam, never again would we pull out in a headlong rush and leave our allies sinking in the mud, clutching at our helicopter skids as we fly away, with the wreck of the new and better nation we had tried to build collapsing around their heads. Never again will we treat America&#39;s trustworthiness and honor, and the hopes of our friends, and the blood-sacrifices of our soldiers, like bad debts to be written off with a shudder.

    We fought in South Vietnam to protect that country from a torrent of Communist evil threatening to roll down from the North. I suppose not many Americans remember the details. But surely a fair number do remember how Congress concluded that Vietnam was a quagmire, a mistake, the wrong war at the wrong time. Whereupon it refused to vote any more money for the war, not one more cent; whereupon we pulled out in a gathering panic, and South Vietnam fell to the invading tanks of the North. Then the picture goes blank. Totalitarian regimes don&#39;t like network cameramen advertising the little clean-up that invariably accompanies the establishment of a brand new absolute dictatorship. But many Americans surely recall that, after we ran away, something awful happened. The evil rolled down in a flood. Huge numbers put to sea in rickety rowboats. Cambodia fell to the Khmer Rouge and its bosses, a group of French-trained Communist intellectuals who created a virtually indescribable hell-on-earth. Millions died.

    The truth about Communist South Vietnam leaked out gradually. Hundreds of thousands were executed; many more were thrown into "reeducation" camps--estimates range from a few hundred thousand to over a million inmates. "What Vietnam has given us," wrote Tom Wicker of the New York Times after the Communist victory, is "a vast tide of human misery in Southeast Asia." Two sentences convey more about the regime&#39;s character than a page of statistics. In Why We Were in Vietnam, Norman Podhoretz quotes Doan Van Toai, a political prisoner jailed by the Communists after we left and they triumphed. "I was thrown into a three-foot-by-six-foot cell with my left hand chained to my right foot and my right hand chained to my left foot. My food was rice mixed with sand." There in two sentences is the reason we were right to fight and wrong to run. Americans have good cause to reject John Kerry&#39;s suggestion that, if Iraq is like Vietnam, getting out is our number one priority. If it is truly like Vietnam, all the more reason to fight relentlessly and to think of victory, only victory, until the enemy has been beaten to bits. Americans want to erase the worst national humiliation we have ever suffered, not recreate it.

    But Iraq is not like Vietnam. We control most of the country. A strong and able Iraqi government fights alongside us. The enemy has no phony romantic aura bearing it up, wafting it along; Jane Fonda has failed to materialize in Falluja. (At least, as this magazine goes to press.) But there is something to the Vietnam analogy. Thanks to Vietnam we now understand how a credulous press corps can turn a massive enemy defeat into a first-class victory. At the end of January 1968, the North Vietnamese and the (indigenous-to-the-South) Vietcong launched attacks throughout the South, known as the Tet offensive. They failed disastrously. The attackers suffered more than 40,000 casualties; the Vietcong were virtually wiped out. "Intended to destroy South Vietnamese officialdom and spark a popular uprising," writes Derek Leebaert, "Tet ironically had more of an effect in turning South Vietnam&#39;s people against the North." But the press reported Tet as a smashing Communist victory.

    The Tet offensive could happen all over again in Iraq any day now. Merely defeating the enemy won&#39;t be enough. A widespread attack might be thrown back, might fail to provoke the Sunni or Shiite uprising it was supposed to--and might nonetheless be reported (just by accident, you understand) as a devastating American defeat. It&#39;s not enough for America to win battles; the world must know that we have won. This time we will be on our guard--I hope. It is reassuring to reflect that, since Vietnam, the mainstream, prestige press has gradually managed to destroy its believability inch by inch. A spectacular reversal of fortunes: Nowadays when the press fires belligerent, obnoxious questions at dignified military spokesmen, people root for the military spokesmen&#33; The credit for this transformation must be shared equally between the military and the reporters.

    Obviously no one wants a quagmire. No one wants to sacrifice American lives to prove a point. Our duty in Iraq is to win fast, make sure the country is safe, and get out. We have a huge preponderance of power, and therefore we win by fighting; the enemy wins by waiting. We need to engage the enemy and win.

    Every combat death we sustain is a tragedy. All Americans mourn every one. Nonetheless: A long fight wins a different sort of victory than a short fight, a victory that costs more and is ultimately worth more. "What you have achieved," Wittgenstein wrote, "cannot mean more to others than it does to you. Whatever it has cost you, that&#39;s what they will pay." Iraq has cost us plenty, but the payment hasn&#39;t been made in vain. We have already gone far towards silencing the post-Vietnam slander that says America is physically tough but mentally and spiritually weak. We have gone far towards recouping a certain kind of credibility we lost in Vietnam--and American credibility is a precious substance; it can save lives by the million. If we had the credibility (or magic power) to tell the regime of North Korea, Iran, or the Sudan: Clean up your act or be crushed by American power, get to it, hop&#33;--millions would rejoice. And Americans know it.

    And so if Kerry should succeed in convincing this nation that Iraq today resembles Vietnam circa 1968, he will discover that America today bears scant resemblance to itself circa 1968. Kerry may have learned nothing from Vietnam, but America has learned plenty.

    --David Gelernter, for the Editors




    © Copyright 2004, News Corporation, Weekly Standard, All Rights Reserved.

  11. #31
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    3,739
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Bugg[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 09:33 PM
    [b]

    But Iraq is not like Vietnam. We control most of the country. A strong and able Iraqi government fights alongside us. The enemy has no phony romantic aura bearing it up, wafting it along; Jane Fonda has failed to materialize in Falluja. (At least, as this magazine goes to press.) But there is something to the Vietnam analogy. Thanks to Vietnam we now understand how a credulous press corps can turn a massive enemy defeat into a first-class victory. At the end of January 1968, the North Vietnamese and the (indigenous-to-the-South) Vietcong launched attacks throughout the South, known as the Tet offensive. They failed disastrously. The attackers suffered more than 40,000 casualties; the Vietcong were virtually wiped out. "Intended to destroy South Vietnamese officialdom and spark a popular uprising," writes Derek Leebaert, "Tet ironically had more of an effect in turning South Vietnam&#39;s people against the North." But the press reported Tet as a smashing Communist victory. [/b][/quote]
    Still peddling that snake oil huh Bugg.

    The selective amnesia practiced by the right makes this story entirely believable.

    I responded to that rubbish a few weeks ago. For those that missed it:

    [quote][b][b]P.S. Regarding another little gem of miseducation you proffered about 6 months ago Bugg. This involves the matter of the Tet Offensive in 1968. You emphasized the tired old bromide about the US not losing control of a single city in South Vietnam. This is quiet correct on its face but totally belies the reality of the situation. From the time Johnson rammed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution through congress the Johnson Administration began a big sales campaign to the American People that US Forces can win the "War of Attrition" against the VC and North Vietnam. As the war dragged on the pitch of the message got louder and louder. We can win the "WAR of Attrition". By late 1966 as the number of troops escalated higher and higher and the body count rose higher and higher the US Public sensed it was being lied to. Yet Johnson kept pounding away at that message saying we had the VC beat. Then Tet exploded, it was an attack unprecedented in its size and scope. When it was all over the US Ambassador to South Vietnam, Elsworth Bunker, standing on top of dead VC combatants, proclaimed all was secure. At that moment the American People realized they had been lied to. Johnson knew his goose was cooked and 2 months later he went on national television to tell the public he would not run for a second term. That&#39;s why Tet was such a turning point. The rubbish about not losing a single city was first started by George Will in the early 80s and echoed by conservatives over the years. Again, more conditoning that totally misses the point and distorts history.[/b][/b][/quote]

    The media reported Tet as a victory because the American People were sold on the idea That the VC were worn down and incapable of mounting an attack a a rural village much less a sizable city. What ended the war was the revelation to the American People that they were lied to by the government.

  12. #32
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,530
    WCM-

    What happened when Nixon unleasehed Linebacker II in December 1972? The Viet Cong realized that if America decided to bomb them back to the stone age they would all be dead. Which is what we should be doing in Najaf and Fallujah. The Viet Cong couldn&#39;t sue for peace fast enough. In fact, they signed off on a treaty within 1 month&#33;And then Congress, fresh off Watergate, disgracefully cut the South down by cutting off funding after the peace treaty. Al Qeada knows our history better than you do. If we cut and run(as in Vietnam and Somalia) our word is worthless. And Al Qeada doesn&#39;t figure to sit around a peace table to clink champagne glasses any time soon.

  13. #33
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jetsfaninCO+Oct 1 2004, 12:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jetsfaninCO &#064; Oct 1 2004, 12:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vinny025[/i]@Oct 1 2004, 12:43 PM
    [b] Moore is god? I dont know about that, but I will buy the movie on the 5th for sure. I am kinda neutral, but I will tell you that i&#39;m voting for Kerry. Reason being me and my wife are a military family and are very tired of being deployed for 9 months out of the year apart from each other, in some place we dont need to be where there is nothing but sand for miles............oh and some oil beneth the surface....(wink) [/b][/quote]
    Vinny, Then get out of the Military. You were not forced to join the military you signed your name without anyone making you do so. I guess you thought you were going to ride out your enlistment without anything happening and you would enjoy the good life and get out and go to college on Uncle Sam&#39;s dime. You know what, you may not see your wife for 9 months at a time, but be glad you get to see her. The sick bastards that you are fighting took 3,000 inocent lives who will never get to see their families again. Let me guess you are going to say well Saddam had nothing to do with 911. I say you keep listening to fat head Moore and pretty soon you will be taking your Military orders from France.
    Yes, I have been in the Military and served my country proud in Desert Storm and was actually deployed to the middle east for 2 years. I am currently working for the Gov&#39;t and have been to Iraq and all over the middle east more than you can imagine. [/b][/quote]
    So because I&#39;m in the military, I cant have an opinion? Are you F&#39;ing kidding me with this crap? This is why I never come to this forum, cause of people like you. I dont just talk about it, I live it. Me, my wife, and our soon to be first son. You cant question my patriotism, I sacrificed my life for the military.

    What I do have a problem with is fighting an unjust war. This crap was unwarrented, and you and I both know it. Bush is a war monger, and a greedy sob. Most of the people in the military that I talk to also agree with me, you would be alarmed at the numbers. You DO NOT put soldiers and their families in harms way, unless all other mean have failed. Bush hardly exercised all means.

    LL, thanks for the co-sign. I couldnt defend myself, my comp was fried.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us