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Thread: 53

  1. #1
    Let me start off by saying I don't blame Ron Gardenhire ... I would have done the same thing

    When you have a chance to take a 2-0 lead in a 5 Game Series ... GOING HOME FOR 2 ... you have to go for the kill

    So IMO Gardenhire did the 100% correct thing by leaving Nathan in that game in the 12th and going for the kill

    But that may have been an ALL OR NOTHING proposition <_<

    That was like tossing all of your chips {save for a precious few} in the middle of the table while holding a straight flush

    Regardless of what happened tonite, when the Twins middle relief faired well, except for Joe Nathan the Twins bullpen is the soft underbelly of that team ... and now Joe Nathan figures to be cooked

    53 PITCHES

    Your All-Star Closer Just tossed 53 Pitches in a losing effort ... GOING ALL OUT ON EVERY PITCH

    53 Pitches is the equivalent of a four or five inning start for most starting pitchers

    Even off that kinda start teams will rarely bring a starter back without his full assortment of rest

    NOT THAT YOU CAN&#39;T ... I&#39;m certain the Twins will go back to Nathan again and again ... but 53 Pitches for a relief pitcher is an overwhelming amount of pitches and it&#39;s highly unlikely {or close to impossible} that Joe Nathan can now be expected to bring his GRADE A STUFF to the mound for the remainder of this series ... certainly not if he&#39;s asked to pitch again on friday

    Now this gaurantees nothing, but there is no doubt this puts the Yankees smack dab in the catbird seat

    Make no mistake about it, this was a HUGE GAMBLE Gardenhire made tonite ... ONE THAT HE HAD TO MAKE ... but the Yankees pulled a ROYAL FLUSH to trump his STRAIGHT FLUSH and now they are holding most of the chips

  2. #2
    Hammer, I like following baseball&#39;s prospects as much, or more, than following the NFL draft.

    Outside of the injured Joe Maurer, do the Twins have a better prospect than young OF Jason Kubel? He&#39;s easily one of the top 3 OF prospects in the game. He makes contact, walks, hit for average, ect....He&#39;s 22 and a George Brett clone in the making.

    Tonight, however, Mariano blew him away on 3 straight pitches (2 were way too high) and made him look silly with runners on 2nd and 3rd (1 out) and the game tied 5-5.

    All Kubel, who was 0-6 tonight, had to do was make contact, and Nathan could&#39;ve come in with the lead earlier. After Kubel raised the white surrender flag to Rivera, Christian Guzman did what he does best--failed in a clutch spot......He grounded out weakly, then stumbled on face going to first.

    I don&#39;t mean to divert your point one bit, which is a salient one, but the Twins blew it right then and there. You could see it in Gardenhire&#39;s face, when Kubel went down swing with ease.....(Would&#39;ve been a good spot for a veteran pinch hitter).

    If the Twins get the lead there, Nathan comes in the 8th inning and there are likely no extra innings.....

    But you are correct, 53 pitches is waaay too many pitches for a closer. Can&#39;t blame Gardenhire for doing it. But once he did it, he had to win the game and he didn&#39;t.

  3. #3
    I have to disagree with you GJ

    After 40+ pitches just about any JAG, or even the bottom of the bullpen was better than Nathan.

    That&#39;s the great fallacy.

    Curt Schilling is a GREAT pitcher--- but if it&#39;s the 8th inning and Schill has thrown 104 pitches, a fresh Curtis Leskanic is BETTER.

    Nathan is great, but after 40 pitches, a fresh Romero or Crain is better.

  4. #4
    Maxman
    Guest
    I think the Yankees would have won either way. Honestly that is what I felt. With the big 2 out of the way in the pen, the Yankees were looking good.

    But Nathan was obviously done the inning before. He shouldn&#39;t have stretched him like that.

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
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    4,530
    And a JUGS machine is still better than Felix Heredia. WHY IS THIS MAN ON THE ROSTER WHEN HE CAN&#39;T THROW A STRIKE?Felix you have a 7 RUN LEAD-THROW A GADDAMN STRIKE&#33;
    I know-he&#39;s their only lefty reliever. But this isn&#39;t a 2nd guess-Steve Karsay should have gotten that spot. Hopefully, this gets rectified shortly.

  6. #6
    Maxman
    Guest
    Originally posted by Bugg@Oct 9 2004, 06:56 AM
    And a JUGS machine is still better than Felix Heredia. WHY IS THIS MAN ON THE ROSTER WHEN HE CAN&#39;T THROW A STRIKE?Felix you have a 7 RUN LEAD-THROW A GADDAMN STRIKE&#33;
    I know-he&#39;s their only lefty reliever. But this isn&#39;t a 2nd guess-Steve Karsay should have gotten that spot. Hopefully, this gets rectified shortly.
    Bugg...I don&#39;t think Felix will make the cut for the next round. Give the spot to Halsey. At least he will get beat the old fashioned way.

    I am assuming that Karsay&#39;s arm strength isn&#39;t ready. Joe rarely used him down the stretch. I am glad Qunatrill got in the game. They are going to need him before this is all said and done. If he gets back on track, they have a shot to have a really good postseason pen.

  7. #7
    GJH -

    Speaking from a Red Sox fan perspective, you can not blame Gardenhire for staying with him because he is your pitcher, but when things started going bad you have to pull the hook.

    He is a closer and his arm is not trained to go that long.

    However, he learned the hard way much like Grady last year (and to a lesser extent Francona last month) to err is human to leave him out there that long is f&#39;ing stupid.

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