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Thread: Why Boston\NY Will Win

  1. #1
    Maxman
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    There are 8,000 threads here containing nothing more then Smack Talk. I want to know who you think will win the Series and the Reasons for it.

    I will go first. The Yankees win in 7 because of:

    1. Experience. Not only with the players on the field but the coaching staff. Torre vs Francona works in the Yankees favor.

    2. The Sox will have to beat possibly the best postseason bullpen of all time to win. Rivera and Gordon are an incredible 1 - 2 punch for the end of each game.

    3. The Yankees rotation isn't as bad as advertised. Certainly the nod for the rotations go to Boston because of their 1 - 2 punch. But considering that the Yankees got 3 solid starts in Round 1 and they have had success against Pedro, the matchups are closer then you would think. El Duque's bullpen session today is huge. If he can start Game 4 that is a very big factor in favor of the Yankees.

    4. I still insist that the Red Sox stlye of play is not conducive to winning Championships. They finally bit the bullet and sacrificed offense to improve the team D. But in all probability Millar will be at 1st (correct me if I am wrong) and the only other difference is no Nomar at SS. His bat won't be missed by the Yankee pitchers. The Yankees hit home runs, but they can play small ball with the best of them (see game 4 of ALDS). Boston doesn't like to sacrifice and give up outs. They better hit lights out with runners in scoring position if they don't want to lay down a bunt every now and then.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I agree with your points, but to play devil's advocate for a moment, the Yankees need to do the following, and they have had a difficult time doing them:

    Slow up Ortiz. The man makes a hugh living on NY pitching. Yanks need to keep his damage to a minimum, especially in clutch situations.

    Since Schilling probably goes 3 starts in the 7 games, he most likely wins 2. Yanks therefore need to beat up on Wakefield and Arroyo.

    Yankees can not count on Boston shooting themselves in the foot with shoddy defensive play, except at 1B with Millar. If Manch.... is at 1B, then Yanks gain by the Sox having a weaker bat in the lineup.

  3. #3
    Reasons why the Red Sox will win in 6:

    1. Better Pitching Rotation - Having Schilling and Pedro pitch in 4/5 games in the series can not be good for the Yankees.

    2. Defense - The Red Sox have traded for two gold glovers in Cabrera and Mientkiewicz
    who can come in the game and not kill the team by making dumb mistakes like Figgins did vs. Boston.

    3. Red Sox bullpen - While it may not be as good as the Yankee's it is still effective in closing out games, the Sox have lefties in the bullpen for certain situations and Francona isn't afraid to pull Pedro after 7.

    4. Batting - While the Yankees have the ability to hit the long ball better, the Sox are a more efficent team. The Sox will face an above average rotation and will work the pitch count to get the relievers in early.

    5. Red Sox are not afraid of the Yankee's bullpen - 2 of Rivera's blown saves this year were against Boston and Tom Gordon has been average vs. Boston despite having a 3-1 record this year.

  4. #4
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    the red sox will win


    we might as well milk this 1918 stuff for all its worth this week because it wont matter come late october (until the Sox lose to the Cardinals)

  5. #5
    Maxman
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    Originally posted by wildthing2022000@Oct 11 2004, 12:44 PM
    5. Red Sox are not afraid of the Yankee's bullpen - 2 of Rivera's blown saves this year were against Boston and Tom Gordon has been average vs. Boston despite having a 3-1 record this year.
    Boston's average vs Flash (career - current players) is .186.

  6. #6
    Maxman
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    Originally posted by wildthing2022000@Oct 11 2004, 12:44 PM
    Reasons why the Red Sox will win in 6:

    1. Better Pitching Rotation - Having Schilling and Pedro pitch in 4/5 games in the series can not be good for the Yankees.

    2. Defense - The Red Sox have traded for two gold glovers in Cabrera and Mientkiewicz
    who can come in the game and not kill the team by making dumb mistakes like Figgins did vs. Boston.

    3. Red Sox bullpen - While it may not be as good as the Yankee's it is still effective in closing out games, the Sox have lefties in the bullpen for certain situations and Francona isn't afraid to pull Pedro after 7.

    4. Batting - While the Yankees have the ability to hit the long ball better, the Sox are a more efficent team. The Sox will face an above average rotation and will work the pitch count to get the relievers in early.

    5. Red Sox are not afraid of the Yankee's bullpen - 2 of Rivera's blown saves this year were against Boston and Tom Gordon has been average vs. Boston despite having a 3-1 record this year.
    Those lefties will come in handy against Jeter, Arod and Sheff at the top of the order. Lefties are not going to be a big factor against the Yankees this year. The right arm of Schilling is another story all together.

  7. #7
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    2 things worry me:

    Terry Francona,
    Schilling's ankle.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Maxman+Oct 11 2004, 11:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maxman @ Oct 11 2004, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-wildthing2022000@Oct 11 2004, 12:44 PM
    5. Red Sox are not afraid of the Yankee&#39;s bullpen - 2 of Rivera&#39;s blown saves this year were against Boston and Tom Gordon has been average vs. Boston despite having a 3-1 record this year.
    Boston&#39;s average vs Flash (career - current players) is .186. [/b][/quote]
    Gordon is your only threat in the bullpen.

  9. #9
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    SJ - I agree with you in regard to Francona. He appears to be one heck of a nice guy - (ala, Pete Caroll??) - but sometimes I wonder if the Sox win DESPITE of him.

    Lets see - this year he has kept Pedro in too long, and has pulled Arroyo too early. Here&#39;s hoping he will be just right the next TWO series....

  10. #10
    Sox.

    Better lineup
    Better Pitching
    Mariano&#39;s tragic event.

  11. #11
    Maxman
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    Originally posted by wildthing2022000+Oct 11 2004, 01:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wildthing2022000 @ Oct 11 2004, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    Originally posted by Maxman@Oct 11 2004, 11:59 AM
    <!--QuoteBegin-wildthing2022000
    @Oct 11 2004, 12:44 PM
    5. Red Sox are not afraid of the Yankee&#39;s bullpen - 2 of Rivera&#39;s blown saves this year were against Boston and Tom Gordon has been average vs. Boston despite having a 3-1 record this year.

    Boston&#39;s average vs Flash (career - current players) is .186.
    Gordon is your only threat in the bullpen. [/b][/quote]
    Mariano Rivera.

  12. #12
    Finally a thread that is just about the games themselves&#33;&#33;&#33;

    i am a huge sox fan (i live 2 miles from the park), but i think the darkhouse may be lieber here, he has come out of nowhere, and he might get the win over pedro in game 2

    i dont feel confident with arroyo in game 4 because the angels were just flailing away at everything he threw....he is like jeckyl and hyde

    but back to lieber, how is he percieved by the yank fans??? any confidence in the guy???

    THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN SAYING RANDOM SH*T LIKE "YOU SUCK" etc etc

  13. #13
    As a Baseball fan, I think the Sox are better equipped to win it this year...

    1) Schilling is Huge...

    2) Ortiz is a Yankee Killer

    3) Yanks pitching rotation is sub par. Brown, when healthy, is unstoppable, but Mussina has been back and forth, Vazquez has been wishy washy, Lieber has been good of late. Schilling has been great, Pedro has been good, Bronson Arroyo has been doing great and Wakefield...well, that knuckler is a ***** of a pitch.

    Sox in 5.

    LL

  14. #14
    Maxman
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    Originally posted by nomarypedro@Oct 11 2004, 04:24 PM
    Finally a thread that is just about the games themselves&#33;&#33;&#33;

    i am a huge sox fan (i live 2 miles from the park), but i think the darkhouse may be lieber here, he has come out of nowhere, and he might get the win over pedro in game 2

    i dont feel confident with arroyo in game 4 because the angels were just flailing away at everything he threw....he is like jeckyl and hyde

    but back to lieber, how is he percieved by the yank fans??? any confidence in the guy???

    THIS IS MUCH BETTER THAN SAYING RANDOM SH*T LIKE "YOU SUCK" etc etc
    Nomar...Boston sucks. Only kidding.

    The thing with Leiber is he has been real good at Yankee Stadium. That is why he is getting the nod in Game 2 at home. He gives up a lot of hits but doesn&#39;t walk anyone. He basically keeps the Yankees in every game he pitches.

    In a perfect world he would be the Yankees 4th starter (or at least in years past he would have been). The health of Brown and El Duque made that impossible.

    In short...Yankee fans feel good about him but know that he has limitations. The biggest question mark is that he has only pitched in one postseason game (last week). So he isn&#39;t battle tested.

    On a sidenote...Torre was interviewed on the FAN a few hours ago. Lofton is playing game one as the DH. Rivera should be available for Game 1 but they don&#39;t know what time he is going to arrive.

    And the biggest one of all from a Yankee perspective...El Duque&#39;s bullpen session went real well today. They haven&#39;t announced anything today but it sounds like he is the man for Game 4. This is real big for the Yankees.

  15. #15
    Maxman
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    Originally posted by latinlawyer@Oct 11 2004, 04:50 PM
    As a Baseball fan, I think the Sox are better equipped to win it this year...

    1) Schilling is Huge...

    2) Ortiz is a Yankee Killer

    3) Yanks pitching rotation is sub par. Brown, when healthy, is unstoppable, but Mussina has been back and forth, Vazquez has been wishy washy, Lieber has been good of late. Schilling has been great, Pedro has been good, Bronson Arroyo has been doing great and Wakefield...well, that knuckler is a ***** of a pitch.

    Sox in 5.

    LL
    LL...you may be right. But a few thoughts.

    Schilling&#39;s ankle? Is it a factor. They say he will be fine with pain killers but it is worth mentioning. Regardless he is an ace in every sense of the word.

    Ortiz has a .290 average against the Yankees and a HR every 26 at bats. The avg is better but the hr&#092;ab worse then his career #s. He hit .069 vs Moose and he is 1 for 6 against Heredia...not much of a sample there but I assume that is why Felix is on the team. He does kill Mariano though...5 for 10.

    The rotation may not be as far off as you think. El Duque looks like he is going to get the nod in Game 4. Which means the Sox really need to get out of the gate fast (games 1 and 2).

    If the Sox win, I would be shocked if it was in 5.

  16. #16
    They key to the series.

    For the Red Sox:

    1. Curt Schilling. He is the straw that stirs the Boston drink. Sorry Reggie. The Sox need at least 7 innings every game from him and to win his starts. The good news for the Sox is he had a lower ERA on the road (3.00 vs 3.45) then Fenway. The bad news he was 12-1 at home. At most one start at home.

    2. Johnny Damon. Captain Caveman needs to have a great series. Todd Walker and Trot Nixon were huge last year while Damon was not. Walker is gone and Trot has been injured most of the year. Damon needs to rebound from his .200 series last year and be a catalyst from the top of the order.

    3. Defense. As always seems to be the case, the Sox can not afford to give the Yanks&#39; lineup extra outs. Defense needs to be solid from start to finish.

    4. Francona. He can have no brain farts like Grady last year or him last month. The Yanks do not beat themselves. The Sox must earn every inning of every game.

    5. Hitting with runners in scoring position. The Sox cannot strand the amount of runners on base as they did against Anaheim the other day. The Sox only got outhit in one game last year during the ALCS. I cannot find their BA with RISP, but I doubt it was as good as the Yanks.

    For the Yanks:

    1. Starting pitching. The starters need to get the ball to the bullpen with the game still winnable. The Yanks set the record for come from behind victories. If the Yanks&#39; starters can keep it close, the Yanks will win a game or two they have no right to win.

    2. Play from ahead. This is not concrete, but the main reason I think the Yanks do not win the title. As I said above, they set the record for come from victories. You do not fall behind because you play good al lthe time. Eventually, that is going to bite them in the ass.

    My prediction. As you can see above, I think the Sox need more things to go right. With that said, I do not think #2 bites the Yanks in the ass until the WS. I think the Yanks go into games 1 and 2 with the sole purpose of outlasting the Schilling and Pedro. I think they take the discplined approach at the plate they used to have back in the 90s and drive the pitch counts up to get to the Sox bullpen.

    Yanks in 5 or 6.

  17. #17
    yeah i gotta go with the yanks here....i&#39;m thinkin of throwin down 2 bills on the yanks so i can win either way...i&#39;ll gladly eat 200 bucks if it means the sox win

    christ i would eat a lot more money than that

    ...and oh yeah i forgot KEITH FOULKE SCARES THE F*CK OUTTA ME

  18. #18
    Why the Yankees will win in 7 games.

    1) Relentless Yankees bats: What is 60-70 games where they have come from behind this year. Big advantage Yankees if they get to the Sox pen.

    2) Mariano, Gordon: Game over when those two are in.

    3) Francona: Bascially an extended mouthpiece of the Sox FO. Francona will have brain fart long before Torre does and in a series like this (As Grady Little will tell you) that can be fatal

    4) Sox are already nervous: For as little as the Sox have accomplished they sure do talk alot of trash. Sounds to me like alot of false bravado

    5) Demon&#39;s of past Sox failures. IF this gets to a seventh game (and why shouldn&#39;t it) last year&#39;s failure will without a doubt be in the back of the Sox minds. The Sox can talk all they want how they are not afraid and how they will bringing "Hell with them" but if they get into that situation again with going aginst these bats there is no doubt that last year, and past years failures will once again rear their heads as the ghosts "Of Yankees pasts" Start making yet another appearance

  19. #19
    Maxman
    Guest
    Originally posted by shawn306@Oct 11 2004, 05:21 PM
    Why the Yankees will win in 7 games.

    1) Relentless Yankees bats: What is 60-70 games where they have come from behind this year. Big advantage Yankees if they get to the Sox pen.

    2) Mariano, Gordon: Game over when those two are in.

    3) Francona: Bascially an extended mouthpiece of the Sox FO. Francona will have brain fart long before Torre does and in a series like this (As Grady Little will tell you) that can be fatal

    4) Sox are already nervous: For as little as the Sox have accomplished they sure do talk alot of trash. Sounds to me like alot of false bravado

    5) Demon&#39;s of past Sox failures. IF this gets to a seventh game (and why shouldn&#39;t it) last year&#39;s failure will without a doubt be in the back of the Sox minds. The Sox can talk all they want how they are not afraid and how they will bringing "Hell with them" but if they get into that situation again with going aginst these bats there is no doubt that last year, and past years failures will once again rear their heads as the ghosts "Of Yankees pasts" Start making yet another appearance
    Shawn...I don&#39;t think this Sox team will be afraid. I really don&#39;t. I agree they talk way to much. But the streak is 85 years or so. That really doesn&#39;t mean much to a lot of these guys in this age of free agency. Pedro probably has the most to lose. For Schilling it would just be icing on the cake&#33;

  20. #20
    you cannot include a "curse" in any reasonable analysis about anything....

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