Enjoy an Ads-Free Jets Insider - Become a Jets Insider VIP!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: the upside to 4 more years

  1. #1
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][b][b]The only way to test Bush’s bold plan[/b]

    By John Kay

    Financial Times
    October 19, 2004

    If the world’s most powerful leader were chosen by its whole population rather than that of the US alone, the result would be in little doubt: there would be a new incumbent in the White House after January. But this support is probably a hindrance rather than a help to John Kerry. Let me redress the balance by explain why I may be one of the few foreigners to vote for the re-election of George W. Bush.

    American is engaged in a bold, ideologically motivated experiment, in defiance of conventional wisdom about international affairs and economic policy. If it succeeds, its architects deserve their political success and there will be important lessons for us all. If it fails, which seems to me to be far more likely, it is important that the connection between policy initiatives and their consequences should be obvious to both those who opposed this course of action and those who favored it. If there is a change of administration there will certainly be another neo-conservative experiment and the myth of democratic betrayal will fuel it.

    Socialism is no longer a serious political force because it was tried and did not work. It did not work in centrally planned countries or poor economies; nor did attenuated forms of socialism work better in western Europe. People in the states concerned had to pay a high price for this. Ideology is never defeated by political argument alone, but, in the long run results counts. So when the ship hits the rocks, those who set that course should be on the bridge to accept responsibility; and if the vessel sails triumphantly into port, the captain and his navigators should also be there to accept the plaudits of the cheering crowds.

    Mr. Bush came to office a little over a year after the bursting of the dot.com bubble and has presided over the greatest fiscal and monetary stimulus yet given to a western economy. Interest rates were cut to 1 per cent in a largely successful attempt to keep asset prices high. Tax cuts were implemented despite soaring military expenditure and rising spending in other programmes. The Reagan administration was austere in its approach to public spending, and tax cuts had previously been justified as a means of controlling the size of the government, but the agenda of the past few years has made tax reduction a goal in its own right.

    The idea that you can spend yourself rich has enduring appeal. A left wing version is maintained by Utopian socialists and Keynesian economists. A right-wing version is supported by self-help guru’s and supply-side politicians. The text of the left was been [i]The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money[/i], the text of the right [i]The Power of Positive Thinking[/i]. The mathematical tool of the left is the multiplier while the right employs the Laffer curve.

    In the left-wing account, spending by government makes taxpayers rich. In the right-wing account, spending by individuals makes individuals rich. And both theories contain a small amount of truth: demand does, to some extent, bring forth supply. Government spending gives some stimulus to industrial production; personal profligacy gives some stimulus to personal effort. The flaw in both theories is that only in exceptional circumstance is the consequent effect on output as large as the initial impact on demand.

    And so both typically end in debt and devaluation. Such expansionist efforts by the left normally come to an end quite quickly, because financial markets are never persuaded of their viability. Such policies are more rarely adopted by the right because central bankers are generally rather conventional in their beliefs and act as a restraining influence. The US Experiment is only possible because the chairman of the Federal Reserve board broadly believes in supply-side economics.

    Perhaps hope and ideology will prove victorious, in Iraq and on Wall Street. But real life and budgetary arithmetic generally win-out. If you must read a self-help manual, [i]How to Win Friends and Influence People[/i] may be a more useful title than [i]The Power of Positive Thinking[/i]. The next four years man enable us to see for sure.
    [/b][/quote]


    i agree with Kay to the extent that imagine Kerry pulls the upset off, there will still be 50% of the nation stuck in complete ignorance... and they will almost definately try to empower this set of morons again.

    Almost rather the whole thing go up in smoke, so that people really know what the deal is... but then again who's to say that another 4 years of failure will convince anyone of anything. It was this time 2 years ago we were discussing the "oh-so-scary" WMD and how it was a threat to national security...

    s--t, half this board still thinks we lost Vietnam because of Fonda and Kerry.

    reality is just not something GOP supporters take easily to.

  2. #2
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    3,406
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mill Maurer said the other day on his show that he wants Bush to win so that for once in his life he will have to clean up his own mess.

  3. #3
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 01:08 PM
    [b] Mill Maurer said the other day on his show that he wants Bush to win so that for once in his life he will have to clean up his own mess. [/b][/quote]
    to a certain extent i agree with him... should Kerry win there's still gonna be a mess in iraq, there's still gonna be a wishy washy economy there's still gonna be incredibly HUGE deficits, plus a GOP congress to deal with...

    when the inevitable other shoe drops, it will be very easy for the GOP spin cycle to rake Kerry over the coals.

    we may as well just let George ride this ***** into the ground... maybe then people will understand... probably not though.

  4. #4
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    574
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Oct 20 2004, 01:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti &#064; Oct 20 2004, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Section109Row15[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 01:08 PM
    [b] Mill Maurer said the other day on his show that he wants Bush to win so that for once in his life he will have to clean up his own mess. [/b][/quote]
    to a certain extent i agree with him... should Kerry win there&#39;s still gonna be a mess in iraq, there&#39;s still gonna be a wishy washy economy there&#39;s still gonna be incredibly HUGE deficits, plus a GOP congress to deal with...

    when the inevitable other shoe drops, it will be very easy for the GOP spin cycle to rake Kerry over the coals.

    we may as well just let George ride this ***** into the ground... maybe then people will understand... probably not though. [/b][/quote]
    if Dubya wins we will have 4 more years of bad english and public speaking mishaps to make fun of as well...

    Anyone see The Daily Show last night...the moment of zen from Bush:

    "We will not have an all voluntary army". Place stops, dead quiet. Cue stupid smirk "Let me rephrase that".

  5. #5
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    Everyone is stupid but you three guys. We get it.

  6. #6
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    3,406
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 03:33 PM
    [b] Everyone is stupid but you three guys. We get it. [/b][/quote]
    Wow it took that long for an Ivy League graduate to finally realize that?

  7. #7
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    36,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 01:33 PM
    [b] Everyone is stupid but you three guys. We get it. [/b][/quote]
    Now now now Jets5, lets be fair here (I know you, above all others here, can be):

    IF Kerry were to win and continue the effort in Iraq (as he claims he will), and it goes bad, you know the Right will blame Kerry for the entire downfall of the U.S. in Iraq. Kerry almost has no choice that can make the Right happy: If he works to pull out, the right claims he is soft on terror. If he stays and things continue to go as poorly as now, then the Right claims Kerry&#39;s leadership caused the lost war. If Kerry wins, he has no choice but to win in Iraq at all costs, or face the huge negative spin at home over a war he didn&#39;t start and doesn&#39;t agree with (or so he says).

    Spin. It&#39;s all Spin (and both sides do it, don;t get me wrong). But other than a complete and overriding victory in Iraq, what could Kerry do to make the right happy should he win on 11/2?

  8. #8
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15+Oct 20 2004, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Section109Row15 &#064; Oct 20 2004, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jets5ever[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 03:33 PM
    [b] Everyone is stupid but you three guys. We get it. [/b][/quote]
    Wow it took that long for an Ivy League graduate to finally realize that? [/b][/quote]
    If Kerry wins, terrorists are going to kill my wife...that&#39;s a fact, jack. If Bush wins, my wife is safe, it&#39;s that simple. Cheney said so, and his daughter is gay, so you know he&#39;s a good guy. C&#39;mon, everybody knows this.

    Fisher - Iraq is Kerry&#39;s baby, he owns it. Bush has nothing whatsoever to do with our presence in Iraq...unless it turns out OK, than it&#39;s Bush&#39;s baby, you dig?

    If Bush wins, no diseases will ever be cured, the oceans will rise and start to boil because of SUVs, and France will launch a nukular missile at us because of Bush&#39;s Texas drawl. If Kerry wins, the blind will see, the lame will walk, the deaf will hear, and then two seconds later they&#39;ll all be dead from a WMD attack because Kerry is a wimpy, treasonous, appeasing, whale-hugging, botoxed weenie.

  9. #9
    JetsInsider.com Legend
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    36,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Oct 20 2004, 01:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever @ Oct 20 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Section109Row15@Oct 20 2004, 01:41 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin-jets5ever[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 03:33 PM
    [b] Everyone is stupid but you three guys. We get it. [/b][/quote]
    Wow it took that long for an Ivy League graduate to finally realize that? [/b][/quote]
    If Kerry wins, terrorists are going to kill my wife...that&#39;s a fact, jack. If Bush wins, my wife is safe, it&#39;s that simple. Cheney said so, and his daughter is gay, so you know he&#39;s a good guy. C&#39;mon, everybody knows this.

    Fisher - Iraq is Kerry&#39;s baby, he owns it. Bush has nothing whatsoever to do with our presence in Iraq...unless it turns out OK, than it&#39;s Bush&#39;s baby, you dig?

    If Bush wins, no diseases will ever be cured, the oceans will rise and start to boil because of SUVs, and France will launch a nukular missile at us because of Bush&#39;s Texas drawl. If Kerry wins, the blind will see, the lame will walk, the deaf will hear, and then two seconds later they&#39;ll all be dead from a WMD attack because Kerry is a wimply, treasonous, appeasing whale-hugging weenie. [/b][/quote]
    :lol: :lol: :lol: You rock Jets5, completely and utterly&#33; :lol: :lol:

  10. #10
    TomShane
    Guest
    If Kerry wins, he should nuke Iraq and blame it on Bush. The Dems have to think big.

  11. #11
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn/Austin
    Posts
    2,712
    Post Thanks / Like
    So if Bush does get re-elected, what will you guys say if the war in Iraq is making great strides and the economy does the best it has ever done? Will any of you give Bush credit, or will you guys find other things to try to pin on Bush?

  12. #12
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    hey 5ever your exuberant sarcasm aside

    any response to the economic aspect of the article?

    you better watch out for me home boy i got a subscription to FT print &#33;&#33;&#33; :lol:

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    390
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TheBrodyMan[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:22 PM
    [b] So if Bush does get re-elected, what will you guys say if the war in Iraq is making great strides and the economy does the best it has ever done? Will any of you give Bush credit, or will you guys find other things to try to pin on Bush? [/b][/quote]
    So I guess your willing to blame Bush now since all the items you mentioned are going so badly.

  14. #14
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by TheBrodyMan[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:22 PM
    [b] So if Bush does get re-elected, what will you guys say if the war in Iraq is making great strides and the economy does the best it has ever done? Will any of you give Bush credit, or will you guys find other things to try to pin on Bush? [/b][/quote]
    it&#39;s thinking like that... the upshot to Bush taking control of the voting machines and winning on Nov 4 is that he&#39;d have to deal with all of it. instead of a deficit that would take years to crawl out of we get one that takes decades to crawl out of <_<

  15. #15
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    11,692
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:24 PM
    [b] hey 5ever your exuberant sarcasm aside

    any response to the economic aspect of the article?

    you better watch out for me home boy i got a subscription to FT print &#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: [/b][/quote]
    In all seriousness, and aside from the jabs in it, it&#39;s a pretty good article. Sensible, etc. He&#39;s exactly right about Bush&#39;s spending - it&#39;s out of control. The problem is that both parties are addicted to it, and if the GOP retains control of Congress, who knows if Kerry can fix it. His proposals have such astronomical costs that they&#39;d likely make things worse, especially if the asset valuation crunch I&#39;ve predicted comes to fruition and tax income is lowered even if rates are raised due to the sluggish growth and creeping inflation that could ensue. No matter who wins, 2005 and 2006 are going to be painful - GET OUT OF US EQUITIES&#33; If you HAVE to be in them, buy only high quality stocks. International developed small caps, emerging markets and emerging sovreign debt are ok to hide in right now, but not great and certainly not as good as they were two years ago. I honestly don&#39;t know where to hide your money...hell, timber funds are good....tips, REITs, I don&#39;t know....


    Our government hasn&#39;t helped things, both parties, but Americans in general are to blame for the mess we&#39;re in. Too much debt, not enough savings, not enough real wage growth.....there&#39;s no magic formula or quick fix here....business cycles are cold *****es....

  16. #16
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    On some beach... somewhere...
    Posts
    3,735
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Oct 20 2004, 02:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Oct 20 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheBrodyMan[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:22 PM
    [b] So if Bush does get re-elected, what will you guys say if the war in Iraq is making great strides and the economy does the best it has ever done? Will any of you give Bush credit, or will you guys find other things to try to pin on Bush? [/b][/quote]
    it&#39;s thinking like that... the upshot to Bush taking control of the voting machines and winning on Nov 4 is that he&#39;d have to deal with all of it. instead of a deficit that would take years to crawl out of we get one that takes decades to crawl out of <_< [/b][/quote]
    All you libs just be sure that you show up at them there polling places on Nov 4th now ya&#39;hear. I think Bitonti ought to have a pre party, load up a bus and head on down to your spot and pull that lever. Yep, do it all together, that&#39;s what I&#39;m a gonna do.

  17. #17
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:45 PM
    [b] I honestly don&#39;t know where to hide your money...hell, timber funds are good....tips, REITs, I don&#39;t know....


    Our government hasn&#39;t helped things, both parties, but Americans in general are to blame for the mess we&#39;re in.

    Too much debt, not enough savings, not enough real wage growth.....there&#39;s no magic formula or quick fix here....business cycles are cold *****es.... [/b][/quote]
    i agree 100% - by the way according to yesterday&#39;s FT the hot places to hide money are real estate and gold. what does that tell ya? <_<

    im learning&#33; :D

  18. #18
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,171
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][b]Jets5 said, [b]In all seriousness, and aside from the jabs in it, it&#39;s a pretty good article. Sensible, etc. He&#39;s exactly right about Bush&#39;s spending - it&#39;s out of control. The problem is that both parties are addicted to it, [/b][/b][/quote]

    Both parties are addicted to it because that&#39;s what most Americans want. What&#39;s the chance of someone getting elected if he/she doesn&#39;t promise to get all he/she can from the government?

    BTW, how much of our national debt belongs to &#39;rat controled congresses? When the &#39;rats whine about balancing the budget, I just laugh. The first balanced budget in years was when Newt and co. came on board. Sure this deficit is a record, but if I buy the house I&#39;m thinking about, I&#39;ll have a record deficit but in compared to my income, it&#39;ll be easier to handle than when I bought a house in 1980 at 13 1/4% interest, thanks to the peanut farmer.

    Anyone care to guess how much our national debt would be and how high our taxes would be if the &#39;rats had controled both congress and the White House for the last 30 years?

  19. #19
    Board Moderator
    Jets Insider VIP
    Charter JI Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    11,481
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:11 PM
    [b] we may as well just let George ride this ***** into the ground... maybe then people will understand... probably not though. [/b][/quote]
    i&#39;m afraid "the ground" is riddled with the pockmarks of suicide bombers in our pizza places.

  20. #20
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    38,782
    Post Thanks / Like
    [quote][i]Originally posted by isired+Oct 21 2004, 02:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (isired &#064; Oct 21 2004, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bitonti[/i]@Oct 20 2004, 02:11 PM
    [b] we may as well just let George ride this ***** into the ground... maybe then people will understand... probably not though. [/b][/quote]
    i&#39;m afraid "the ground" is riddled with the pockmarks of suicide bombers in our pizza places. [/b][/quote]
    and that&#39;s why you are a bush supporter

    cause you are AFRAID

    Bush has the fear vote on lockdown - that&#39;s his best friend - the fear of the American public.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us