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Thread: Could there be another Civil War?

  1. #1
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    With the deep and incredably aggressive division in todays America, between the increasingly excessive and inflexable left and right (neither of whom think they are excessive or extreme in their views at all), is it possible that the USA could eventually become enraged in another Civil War?

    I know it likely sounds stupid to many of you, but the level of hate and ill will between left and right Americans seesm to be at a high-water mark as of late. And as history shows, it only takes one act of violence to spark even the largest war.

    Is it impossible?

  2. #2
    TomShane
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    Homeboy, put down the pipe. Unless all the Dems run to some geographic parameter, and the Republicans run to another, then there will never be another Civil War.

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    I doubt if we'll ever see a Civil War based on party affiliation.

    I do know one group out West (MEChA) that has been pushing for a Civil War for decades, in order to return a number of western U.S states to rule of Mexico :rolleyes:
    Not too long ago, a MEChA member (So.Cal chapter president) told Bill O'Reilly on TV he hoped to see bloodshed on the streets of the U.S someday.....

    ....Don't laugh at this "lone physcho" as being an abberation. Some Democratic U.S Congressmen and other high ranking U.S officials are in on this scam and have made vague racist, inflamatory threats. Matter of fact, [b]Antonio Villagirosa (always runs for mayor of LA) is a VERY prominent member of Kerry's campaign team[/b] :wacko:

    Even if a Civil War never happens, this group is very, very dangerous to the security and well-being of the U.S and is getting stronger and stronger every day with our broken borders and pandering, low-life politicians who allow this lawlessness to go on unabated!


    [b]Their plan for civil war?[/b] [url=http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mecha/plan.html]http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mecha/plan.html[/url]

    [b]More on these cowards[/b]: [quote][b]From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, [b]declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny[/b].

    [url=http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html]http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html[/url][/b][/quote]


    [b]P.S: Reports have Al-Queda trying to gain alliances with groups similar to this:[/b] [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041021/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/latin_gangs_terror]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...in_gangs_terror[/url]

  4. #4
    flushingjet
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    what I think, and hope will happen, is that all the people of like mind move to the "red" states and secede. the "blue states" can tax and sue and abort themselves to death while speaking more languages than the Tower of Babel. then, we'll really have the 2 americas Edwards (My Little P(h)ony) keeps on about

  5. #5
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    I've got a cabinet full of guns. If you want a war, you come see me, you Yankee bastards!

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Oct 22 2004, 11:17 PM
    [b]
    I know it likely sounds stupid to many of you, but the level of hate and ill will between left and right Americans seesm to be at a high-water mark as of late. [/b][/quote]
    And the level of "hate" is highest in the 'rat party. As I've posted before,

    How many right-wing protestors were arrested at the 'rat convention? Zero, zip, nada!

    How many left-wing protestors were arrested at the 'pub convention? Over a 1100 just on Tuesday alone!

    How many Kerry/Edwards campaign offices have been vandalized, robbed, etc.? I haven't heard of any, but several Bush/Cheney offices have been.

  7. #7
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    There could be a civil war...but it would be red-blooded Americans against blood sucking immigrants....

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    [quote][b]A thought experiment: imagine that all across America offices of the NAACP or Planned Parenthood were attacked. Do you really think that the [i]New York Times[/i] would not feature the campaign with numerous front page articles, while the editorial page thundered against the violence? [/b][/quote]

    Yet attacks on GOP offices and conservative leaders rarely hit the front page. Why? Can anyone say, biased?

    Read the [url=http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3954]Chilling Effect[/url]

  9. #9
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Oct 23 2004, 08:31 PM
    [b] There could be a civil war...but it would be red-blooded Americans against blood sucking immigrants.... [/b][/quote]
    Hey CBNY, I got news for you: the only true red-blooded Americans are native Americans. Everyone else came on a boat. So unless you're the direct decendent of Geronimo, you have absolutely no place to talk. Most of us came from "blood-sucking" immigrants. I'd like to continue this discussion with you but I doubt you posess the intellectual ability to do so.

    BTW, since you don't want immigrants being in America, would you be willing to pick the bean fields? Somebody's gotta do it.

  10. #10
    TomShane
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Riggins44[/i]@Oct 23 2004, 12:55 AM
    [b] I doubt if we'll ever see a Civil War based on party affiliation.

    I do know one group out West (MEChA) that has been pushing for a Civil War for decades, in order to return a number of western U.S states to rule of Mexico :rolleyes:
    Not too long ago, a MEChA member (So.Cal chapter president) told Bill O'Reilly on TV he hoped to see bloodshed on the streets of the U.S someday.....

    ....Don't laugh at this "lone physcho" as being an abberation. Some Democratic U.S Congressmen and other high ranking U.S officials are in on this scam and have made vague racist, inflamatory threats. Matter of fact, [b]Antonio Villagirosa (always runs for mayor of LA) is a VERY prominent member of Kerry's campaign team[/b] :wacko:

    Even if a Civil War never happens, this group is very, very dangerous to the security and well-being of the U.S and is getting stronger and stronger every day with our broken borders and pandering, low-life politicians who allow this lawlessness to go on unabated!


    [b]Their plan for civil war?[/b] [url=http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mecha/plan.html]http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mecha/plan.html[/url]

    [b]More on these cowards[/b]: [quote][b]From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, [b]declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny[/b].

    [url=http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html]http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html[/url][/b][/quote]


    [b]P.S: Reports have Al-Queda trying to gain alliances with groups similar to this:[/b] [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041021/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/latin_gangs_terror]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...in_gangs_terror[/url] [/b][/quote]
    Rigs, there will never be a Chicano uprising on any scale. Mexicans have lousy credit and wouldn't be able to finance the war. You want America back? Get American Express, vatos! :lol:

  11. #11
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    Who would design the informs?

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    [quote][b]Most of us came from "blood-sucking" immigrants. I'd like to continue this discussion with you but I doubt you posess the intellectual ability to do so.[/b][/quote]

    The U.S may be a "nation of immigrants", but we are also a nation of laws, not a cheap labor flop-house for sleazy employers to bludgeon the American people with a flood of exploitable labor to hold prices down.

    The fat-ass landscapper in my town that employs 25 to 30 illegals is getting cheap labor, but the rest of us are stuck with the ernomous bill to finance his criminal activity (per the 1986 IR Act he's a criminal).....There must be at least 250,000 illegals in the Tri-State area working as [b]landscapper's or private house maids alone[/b]......Please, please, please tell me how our economy would crumble if some fool didn't get his lawn trimmed every week on time or some stupid, non working young woman had to clean her own clothes?

    Bang, there is no answer!

    However, those illegals not only rarely pay taxes, but they almost always require millions and millions of dollars of public subsidy--free education; housing (Sec.8--yes they can qualify); free health-care and free child birth for every kid......list goes on and on.

    When a sleazoid carpenter I know of took an illegal off a curb and placed him on a roof to get badly injured a few days after he was hired, us tax-payers (not the creep that violated federal law) were stuck with the bill and it was VERY HEAVY (more than illegal would make in 20 years working)! ....This doesn't even mention the American's this lawbreaking American fired to hire these illegals....One day these American carpenters were making $ 25 per hr. doing very dangerous work (which generations of unions fought and sacrificed like bastards to get); next day the illegals were working for $10 and not paying a penny of taxes!!!!!

    Please, the U.S is a soverign nation and has laws! How many Jews were Holocuast victims after the U.S decided they needed to shut down the border in 1925? It was tragic, but the U.S has the right to decide it's laws and it did happen......

    If you think this nonsense is so cool, why don't you take a look at the historic budget deficits and run away crime in California?....All the a-holes wanted cheap labor in the 1970's and 1980's...now they are paying a steep price. California budget deficit is greater than all the 49 other states COMBINED and even the ultra- liberal LA Times says illegal alien care and effects account for over 60% of the historic deficit!


    [quote][b]BTW, since you don't want immigrants being in America, would you be willing to pick the bean fields? Somebody's gotta do it. [/b][/quote]

    It's comical that you mention this. Just very, very laughable. While the Mets were playing Cleveland this summer, I flipped to RNN (cable news in NYC) for a few moments during a rain delay....Low and behold, [b]did I really see U.S Congressman Major Owens claim OVER 50% of black men in NYC were UNEMPLOYED[/b] :unsure: .....By the way, Owens is black and he named ILLEGAL ALIENS as the main culprit for the working downfall of black men in his NYC district.

    We've got a labor shortage in the U.S???? :D :lol: ....Please, ask my friend Bitonti about how the unemployment numbers are tabulated and how bogus they are. The unemployment rate in the U.S is [b]at least 2 times[/b] as high as the sluts on CNBC report.....Bank on that, because the U.S doesn't count "discouraged workers" or take into account whether these folks work full time or not....Don't get me started on the wage losses American's face due to illegal criminals[b]**[/b], but CNN (a very liberal outlet) recently reported Havard studies and it's flat out staggering.



    [b]Want to debunk more lefty or greedy right-wing trash? Top 10 bull$hit excuses for anarchy and lawlessness!![/b] [url=http://www.projectusa.org/immigration_arguments.html]http://www.projectusa.org/immigration_arguments.html[/url]


    Oh, by the way, if we didn&#39;t allow this anaracy and lawlessness to go on unabated, [b]9-11 would&#39;ve never happened[/b] (19 illegal aliens caused 9-11) and we&#39;d have no war on terror because of that day <_<


    *******

    [quote][b]Rigs, there will never be a Chicano uprising on any scale. Mexicans have lousy credit and wouldn&#39;t be able to finance the war. You want America back? Get American Express, vatos&#33;[/b][/quote]

    Thanks TS and a great point. Thing is, I&#39;m spent defending CBNY, who used to be very liberal on this issue...... B)



    [b]**[/b] [url=http://americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html]http://americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html[/url]

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    [quote][b]Riggins said, "Low and behold, did I really see U.S Congressman Major Owens claim OVER 50% black men in NYC were UNEMPLOYED unsure.gif .....By the way, Owens is black and he named ILLEGAL ALIENS as the main culprit for the working downfall of black men in his NYC district."[/b][/quote]

    But NY doesn&#39;t have any bean fields to pick do they? Sorry, had to stick that one in, but where I lived used to be a big peach growing area and Mexicans came to pick the peaches (probably many illegal). Our county also is usually in the top 10% of unemployment (most are blacks). One year b/c of some immigration deal, the Mexicans weren&#39;t allowed to come pick peaches. So here&#39;s a chance for these unemployed to work, right? Well, yes it was, except that most of them refuse to work and most of the peach crop was lost. Growers gave away peaches to anyone who came to pick them. Now, most of the peach growers have quit.

    BTW, that&#39;s why we can&#39;t get any new industry to come here, very few people are willing to do an honest days work, so those who are industrious and want to get ahead move to the NW part of the state which is booming economically.

    I understand your frustration, but we probably don&#39;t agree on the cause or the solution.

    My first question is: Why are wages so high? They&#39;re high b/c unions have forced them higher, which in turn makes our products more expensive which makes oursourcing profitable b/c the consummer wants lower priced goods.

    You can&#39;t have high wages and low-cost goods and services. That&#39;s why Kerry&#39;s desire to raise the minimum wage is stupid. That just creates a trickle up effect on all wages, making for higher costing products. Then if you add liability costs to protect from frivolous lawsuits you have what caused our flu vaccine problem this year. No American company is willing to produce it.

    People who think voting for one candidate or another is going to solve economic problems just don&#39;t understand basic economics. The law of supply and demand will create the best economy overall, but there will always be some one getting hurt or making a killing at any given time.

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    Look, poll after poll shows 80% of American&#39;s (both Democrat and Republican) want this mess controlled. [url=http://www.projectusa.org/ezine/2003/03-11-19-dems-out-of-touch.html]http://www.projectusa.org/ezine/2003/03-11...t-of-touch.html[/url]

    The lunatic fringe that likes this LAWLESSNESS is comprised of 2 groups:

    1) Frothing at the mouth liberals, who want to see Kerry and the Democrats stay in power for a long time--90% of illegals turn democrat when they are legalized...90%&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;...fact&#33;.

    2) The most boisterous are the Republican slave-master types--I.E Bush, The CATO Inst and the W. Street Journal freaks....These people don&#39;t see the U.S as a nation, but a one big labor market for business.

    While the business owner may enjoy cheap labor, I, and 80% of Americans, don&#39;t enjoy paying much higher taxes to support these criminals (illegals and their employers).

    I&#39;m all for the rich and, unlike Kerry, I don&#39;t believe they should be continually taxed. However, Mr.X hires someone and sends him on 50 feet roof to expliot his poverty, then Mr.X can pay the f*cking &#036;100,000 medicals bill and not dump it off on the tax-payers if the illegal falls. You want decent workers and insure them, pay the wages to get decent workers...Like we did here on the east coast back in 1997 or 1999, before this garbage took hold&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

    Tell you what, we should get the 20% Americans, like yourself, who feel our borders should be obiliterated for economic or social reasons and put them all in one state. There are 6 billion people on this planet with a lower standard of living than your average Mexican illegal....In this new state, folks that want cheap labor would be happy as pigs in slop :lol: :D

    ...Thing is, don&#39;t complain about taxes, urban sprawl, soaring crime, dangerous pollution and a break down of culture :o :rolleyes:


    [b]The U.S already takes in more legal immigrants than the entire world COMBINED&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;[/b]....Now we need 3 million new illegals each year???? :ph34r:

    With no disrespect intended, you can&#39;t be serious? Can you?


    They weren&#39;t need before; they are needed in THESE HUGE NUMBERS now... [url=http://www.projectusa.org/arguments/jobs_Americans_wont_do.html]http://www.projectusa.org/arguments/jobs_A...ns_wont_do.html[/url]



    [b]P.S[/b], there may be 2 million illegals in the U.S mowing lawns and raking leaves.....[b]Please, please, please, please[/b] would some sage person tell me how the U.S economy would turn into a disater without them mowing lawns on time? Stop talking about then picking beans, because those comprise a very small percentage of US jobs and we already have a [b]LEGAL guest worker programs[/b] for Mexicans to do so and have had it for a long, long time&#33;&#33;&#33;

    This is all about greed, plain and simple. But as more cities and states go broke from these criminal free-loaders, the problem will either go away (deportation of federal criminals and arresting those that hire them) or the USA will become a 3rd world, bankrupt nation---a preview can be found in Los Angeles :unsure:


    Here&#39;s someone who admited to employing illegals on CNN....hE SHOULD BE BOOKED AND ARRESTED NOW&#33;&#33; [url=http://dillardhouse.com/]http://dillardhouse.com/[/url]

  15. #15
    TomShane
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    Rigs, I used to work non-union construction for two years, so I saw a TON of illegals on many work sites over the years, and you&#39;re absolutely right. They are expendable, cheap labor. When one of them gets hurt? Big deal&#33; Get another one in the parking lot of the local bodega. Want to be disgusted? Drive up to Brewster, NY, drive down the Main strip at 8 A.M. and you&#39;ll see well over 100 illegals standing around waiting to be picked up and prostituted by scumbag contractors.

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    TS, glad you checked in. I worked various construction jobs during high school and at times after (weekends, ect.), to help friends and because I like the workout. The only people that complain about carpenters and others making too much, are sissy pencil pushers that are too cowardly to do these jobs....If they ever worked on a 100ft high roof, they&#39;d comprehend how harmful these illegal criminals are to our society.

    I don&#39;t think people understand the enormity of problem. First, the American loses his job and, in a lot instances, is forced into poverty or taking a job at lesser wages. Then you have indigent illegals that are disposable and work for almost nothing. They are very poor, so, all of sudden, towns are dealing with illegals that need major welfare help, while seeing their traditional tax-base diminish as more Americans lose their jobs or wages plummet.

    In places like California, this is catastrophic and everyone knows it. A major, modern day Ponzi-scheme&#33;

    TS, the sleazeball contracter I saw in 1999 lives on the Connecticut side of the Brewster border. In one instance, he employed an illegal that was using his own legs to hold shingles while sawing....He not only cut his shingle, but cut right through his leg (remember, this person was carpenter for just a few weeks, no training).

    I asked the sleazeball what he did to help and he told me that he just left the illegal in front of the local emergency room and then just left, while he had major surgery. When I asked if he&#39;d re-hire the illegal, he told be he didn&#39;t care because he could just go to the same sidewalk and hire "1000 more like him"....A few months before, by the way, this man had an all-american crew (of all races).

    I think he eventually lost his liscence, because his workers were terrible. He would charge up to &#036;150,000 for additions, but all his workers had less than a few months experience as Carpenters.... :ph34r:

  17. #17
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Riggins44[/i]@Oct 24 2004, 05:33 PM
    [b]
    [b]The U.S already takes in more legal immigrants than the entire world COMBINED&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;[/b]....Now we need 3 million new illegals each year???? :ph34r:

    With no disrespect intended, you can&#39;t be serious? Can you?


    [/b][/quote]
    Hey, riggins, I&#39;m with you on the illegal immigration thing, my post was directed to your comment about all the unemployed folks in NYC b/c of illegal immigration. Why are most unemployed that way? B/c like so many of them in my town, they don&#39;t want to work. Sure, they can&#39;t get a decent job b/c many don&#39;t have a HS diploma, but they had the opportunity to get one if they wanted it bad enough.

    Well, I&#39;m sorry, but after traveling to a couple of third-world countries, I&#39;m convinced that we have very few poor people. Oh, I know my neighbor is poor enough to get govt. assistence for his rent and food stamps, but he can afford a satellite dish, a cell phone, a car, and a color TV. But he&#39;s poor. Sorry, if you have food and a roof over your head you&#39;re better off than millions of people in the world.

    I&#39;m more than willing to help those who can&#39;t work, but I hate my hard-earned money going to lazy bums who won&#39;t work.

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    asuusa, suppose we allowed every one who wants to work in the U.S legal entry?

    O.K, there are 5 billion (or more) people in the world that live in 3rd world conditions. Suppose 2 billion want to come here to work very, very hard in the U.S for &#036;25 per day (or less), yet we "only" allow 1 billion to come in to work :unsure:

    [b]Now, what do you say to the 1 billion people that couldn&#39;t come?[/b] Afterall, they want a better a life. Do we owe them that outright, because we have roofs and food?

    Think about it, our legal population is 250,000,000 people. So adding a billion fine, nice, polite, eager working 3rd world immigrants would quadruple the U.S&#39;s population overnight.......Think that would workout swell? Would there be jobs at reasonable wages for the billion newcomers?

    A couple more random points


    **Countries like Mexico are a lot richer than we think. Corruption, mainly among the white, elite minority in that nation (about 10% of the pop) is stifling the average Mexican. Then they try sending their problems here. :blink:


    **While Arizonan&#39;s that want stop illegal aliens from voting illegaly in the upcoming elections (prop.200) are deemed as bad people or [b]"racist"[/b], the nation of Mexico (dubbing us racist) shoots folks from Ecaudor, Guatamala and other places at their own MILITARIZED SOUTHERN BORDER. [b]They also, by law, state people need to show up to 10 FORMS of ID to vote in some Mexican elections[/b] :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol: :D


    **Welfare bums and lazy people might suck. But are people that lust cheap labor servants to clean their houses or mow their own lawns any better?....You still haven&#39;t answered my question that I posed twice, however: How do the millions and millions of illegals that mow lawns or clean private houses really sustain our economy?

    That seems like a luxary to me. I don&#39;t know, I once knew a 88 year old that mowed his own lawn....Why can&#39;t others?.....Want someone else to mow your lawn that&#39;s fine, but pay an American a decent wage to do it, or do it yourself. Don&#39;t exploit the poverty of illegals, then let other taxpayers pay their enourmous social welfare bills.


    Read this article if you really believe illegal immigration is a [b]"victimless crime"[/b], Or if you believe there is an endless amount of jobs in the U.S [url=http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/jobs.htm]http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/jobs.htm[/url]


    P.S: Nice debating with you asu....It&#39;s been a while for me on this topic at JI. Heck, not even the JI [b]"liberals"[/b] like Section109, Bitonti, Tailgators, WCM or Jetset Junta think illegal immigration is defensible in these large numbers.....The most compassion on this board for illegals, always comes from GOP fans fond of cheap labor.

  19. #19
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    We&#39;ve all seen the polls. We know an overwhelming majority of Americans want tougher action on illegal immigration, for a variety of reasons...national security, unemployment, etc. My question is - if a poll was taken of legal immigrants, what would their attitudes towards illegal immigration be? Similar to the general population? More sympathetic?

  20. #20
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Oct 22 2004, 11:17 PM
    [b] With the deep and incredably aggressive division in todays America, between the increasingly excessive and inflexable left and right (neither of whom think they are excessive or extreme in their views at all), is it possible that the USA could eventually become enraged in another Civil War?

    I know it likely sounds stupid to many of you, but the level of hate and ill will between left and right Americans seesm to be at a high-water mark as of late. And as history shows, it only takes one act of violence to spark even the largest war.

    Is it impossible? [/b][/quote]
    I can&#39;t imagine the limp wristed lefties starting a fight much less a war. You can&#39;t win a war by whining and crying.

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