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Thread: Kerry doesn't care!

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    Kerry voted 6 times to keep parcel birth abortion LEGAL! I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed! They pull the baby parcelly out of the womb and BAM it's dead! Do you really want Kerry as your president, Bush has stopped it, now do you want Bush as your president?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Destanee[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 09:41 PM
    [b] Kerry voted 6 times to keep parcel birth abortion LEGAL! I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed! They pull the baby parcelly out of the womb and BAM it's dead! Do you really want Kerry as your president, Bush has stopped it, now do you want Bush as your president? [/b][/quote]
    First, I agree.

    Second, It's "partially."

    Don't give them any ammo.

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    With abortion, I can't see why people make it to be a black and white issue. If you make it illegal, what happens if a woman gets raped and becomes pregnant. Would you want her to be forced to have the baby when there exists the possibility that she doesnt have to? No, you don't want to take away a life, but I wouldn't want my daughter have to wake up every day to see a child she knows she had because of a violation of her rights, a baby she never should have had. It's really a case by case situation, IMHO.

    I realize its a touchy subject, but I think I'd rather SOME children not be born rather than grow up to be 1) idiots who make no contribution to society because of bad parenting and/or 2) future criminals due to genes and the environment he/she grows up in. It's probably a statement that many of you will not agree with, but IMO, a woman's body is her business, and we should keep it that way.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jetsfan80[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 10:06 PM
    [b] With abortion, I can't see why people make it to be a black and white issue. If you make it illegal, what happens if a woman gets raped and becomes pregnant. Would you want her to be forced to have the baby when there exists the possibility that she doesnt have to? No, you don't want to take away a life, but I wouldn't want my daughter have to wake up every day to see a child she knows she had because of a violation of her rights, a baby she never should have had. It's really a case by case situation, IMHO.

    I realize its a touchy subject, but I think I'd rather SOME children not be born rather than grow up to be 1) idiots who make no contribution to society because of bad parenting and/or 2) future criminals due to genes and the environment he/she grows up in. It's probably a statement that many of you will not agree with, but IMO, a woman's body is her business, and we should keep it that way. [/b][/quote]
    80, it's not like abortion is like removing a kidney or something. It's not just 'her body.'
    There is another person in this equation, boss. A living, breathing human being. The right to life that the unborn child has is greater than the right to not be inconvenienced that the mother has. Sorry, this is a no-brainer. Rape and incest cause less than one tenth of one percent of all abortions, that is a complete non-issue. Fine, you can have those. Abortion is a form of birth control. You know it, I know it...hell, moose know it. Women can give unwanted children up for adoption, we all know there are more than enough willing parents, ready to adopt. Murder is wrong. Killing babies is wrong. Abortion is AWFUL. Even pro-abortion people recognize this. They always couch their opinions in "women's rights" language, because they KNOW that the procedure of abortion is MURDER and they simply have to find a way to rationalize accepting its legality, so they can be guilt-free. It's a "woman's body" etc. Uh, no it isn't. It's not the woman's head that is crushed like a nut, it's not the woman's innards that are vaccuumed out. It's not the woman's life that is ended. Spare me this rationalization nonsense crap. It insults my intelligence. Either you think baby-killing is okay or you don't. Period. Feminism has nothing to do with it. Women DO have a choice, they CHOOSE to engage in activity that may get them pregnant. Rape and incest are red herrings. Women aren't pro-choice because they are deathly afraid of being impregnated after being raped, they are pro-choice because they want it as a form of birth control. Don't insult my intelligence or your own by hinting otherwise. They want an innocent, living, breathing human being to suffer for THEIR mistakes. The selfishness is APPALLING. Anyone who is pro-abortion is morally bankrupt. Sorry, that is just the way it is. There is no conceivable defense for beng pro-abortion. None.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Destanee[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 08:41 PM
    [b]Kerry voted 6 times to keep parcel birth abortion LEGAL! I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed! They pull the baby parcelly out of the womb and BAM it's dead! Do you really want Kerry as your president, Bush has stopped it, now do you want Bush as your president?[/b][/quote]
    This was posted by my eight year old daugter,in whom I am deeply proud. She will be in the 5th grade before her 9th birthday and she already knows the value of life better then Kerry. Oh by the way she is a bleed green Jets fan.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Destanee+Oct 30 2004, 11:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Destanee &#064; Oct 30 2004, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Destanee[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 08:41 PM
    [b]Kerry voted 6 times to keep parcel birth abortion LEGAL&#33; I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed&#33; They pull the baby parcelly out of the womb and BAM it&#39;s dead&#33; Do you really want Kerry as your president, Bush has stopped it, now do you want Bush as your president?[/b][/quote]
    This was posted by my eight year old daugter,in whom I am deeply proud. She will be in the 5th grade before her 9th birthday and she already knows the value of life better then Kerry. Oh by the way she is a bleed green Jets fan. [/b][/quote]
    whew&#33; i was getting worried for you there for a second. i guess she posted the &#39;hanio&#39; stuff too, right? ;)

    BTW, it&#39;s "of whom"

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    Thank you teacher &#33;

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Destanee[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 09:41 PM
    [b] Kerry voted 6 times to keep parcel birth abortion LEGAL&#33; I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed&#33; They pull the baby parcelly out of the womb and BAM it&#39;s dead&#33; Do you really want Kerry as your president, Bush has stopped it, now do you want Bush as your president? [/b][/quote]
    First, I agree that ALL abortion (not just late term "partial birth" procedures) should be strictly limited, with some real common sense guidelines in terms of allowable timeframes for the procedure (as jets5 and I have discussed at length, the earlier the limitations, the better, within reason, and free preggy tests for all is a darn good use of public funds if it helps get rid of later-term abortions).

    Second, however, is that your argument of "I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed&#33;" is completely illegitimate. Fact is, it ISN&#39;T your child, or your business in way shape or form. The person having the abortion, as bad as it is in your and my eyes, made that choice willingly and consciously and with forethought of the implications of that choice. Your argument of "What if it was YOUR child" is nothing but worthless emotional drivel.

    The ONLY person that line of argument would be fair for is the fatherof the baby (who in MOST (but, of course, not all) cases is in agreement with the mother in the decision to have the procedure). However, we ALL know that fathers have almost no rights in America today when it comes to reproduction. Men are simply there to pay the bills regardless of what the mother decides (but that is another issue for another thread).

    Stick with unstoppable facts, like the FACT that late term partial birth abortion is equivalent to infant murder, pure and simple, and you wil win more arguments/debates than you lose. On an issue as important as this, you shouldn&#39;t give your opponent (the pro-abortion folks) ANY ammo to use against you.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Oct 30 2004, 10:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever &#064; Oct 30 2004, 10:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jetsfan80[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 10:06 PM
    [b] With abortion, I can&#39;t see why people make it to be a black and white issue. If you make it illegal, what happens if a woman gets raped and becomes pregnant. Would you want her to be forced to have the baby when there exists the possibility that she doesnt have to? No, you don&#39;t want to take away a life, but I wouldn&#39;t want my daughter have to wake up every day to see a child she knows she had because of a violation of her rights, a baby she never should have had. It&#39;s really a case by case situation, IMHO.

    I realize its a touchy subject, but I think I&#39;d rather SOME children not be born rather than grow up to be 1) idiots who make no contribution to society because of bad parenting and/or 2) future criminals due to genes and the environment he/she grows up in. It&#39;s probably a statement that many of you will not agree with, but IMO, a woman&#39;s body is her business, and we should keep it that way. [/b][/quote]
    80, it&#39;s not like abortion is like removing a kidney or something. It&#39;s not just &#39;her body.&#39;
    There is another person in this equation, boss. A living, breathing human being. The right to life that the unborn child has is greater than the right to not be inconvenienced that the mother has. Sorry, this is a no-brainer. Rape and incest cause less than one tenth of one percent of all abortions, that is a complete non-issue. Fine, you can have those. Abortion is a form of birth control. You know it, I know it...hell, moose know it. Women can give unwanted children up for adoption, we all know there are more than enough willing parents, ready to adopt. Murder is wrong. Killing babies is wrong. Abortion is AWFUL. Even pro-abortion people recognize this. They always couch their opinions in "women&#39;s rights" language, because they KNOW that the procedure of abortion is MURDER and they simply have to find a way to rationalize accepting its legality, so they can be guilt-free. It&#39;s a "woman&#39;s body" etc. Uh, no it isn&#39;t. It&#39;s not the woman&#39;s head that is crushed like a nut, it&#39;s not the woman&#39;s innards that are vaccuumed out. It&#39;s not the woman&#39;s life that is ended. Spare me this rationalization nonsense crap. It insults my intelligence. Either you think baby-killing is okay or you don&#39;t. Period. Feminism has nothing to do with it. Women DO have a choice, they CHOOSE to engage in activity that may get them pregnant. Rape and incest are red herrings. Women aren&#39;t pro-choice because they are deathly afraid of being impregnated after being raped, they are pro-choice because they want it as a form of birth control. Don&#39;t insult my intelligence or your own by hinting otherwise. They want an innocent, living, breathing human being to suffer for THEIR mistakes. The selfishness is APPALLING. Anyone who is pro-abortion is morally bankrupt. Sorry, that is just the way it is. There is no conceivable defense for beng pro-abortion. None. [/b][/quote]
    Just for debate purposes Jets5 (remember, we agree on this issue. This is more for intellectual curiosity), let me ask you a question:

    What is your feeling regarding a women who gets herself pregnant and doesn&#39;t want the child. If abortion is illegal, in effect the women is being forced by law to go through the 9 months of pregnancy. Do you feel there are any moral drawbacks to THAT kind of foced pain and suffering for the Woman involved? Would you prosecute the women, for example, if she willingly threw herself down a stairwell in order to miscarry (or some similar action)? What would the sentance for such an act be?

    In effect, does a women who gets herself preganat have ANY rights over the fetus she carries within her? What are lines, in your mind?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish+Oct 30 2004, 10:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Warfish &#064; Oct 30 2004, 10:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Destanee[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 09:41 PM
    [b] Kerry voted 6 times to keep parcel birth abortion LEGAL&#33; I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed&#33; They pull the baby parcelly out of the womb and BAM it&#39;s dead&#33; Do you really want Kerry as your president, Bush has stopped it, now do you want Bush as your president? [/b][/quote]
    First, I agree that ALL abortion (not just late term "partial birth" procedures) should be strictly limited, with some real common sense guidelines in terms of allowable timeframes for the procedure (as jets5 and I have discussed at length, the earlier the limitations, the better, within reason, and free preggy tests for all is a darn good use of public funds if it helps get rid of later-term abortions).

    Second, however, is that your argument of "I mean imagine if that was your child getting killed&#33;" is completely illegitimate. Fact is, it ISN&#39;T your child, or your business in way shape or form. The person having the abortion, as bad as it is in your and my eyes, made that choice willingly and consciously and with forethought of the implications of that choice. Your argument of "What if it was YOUR child" is nothing but worthless emotional drivel.

    The ONLY person that line of argument would be fair for is the fatherof the baby (who in MOST (but, of course, not all) cases is in agreement with the mother in the decision to have the procedure). However, we ALL know that fathers have almost no rights in America today when it comes to reproduction. Men are simply there to pay the bills regardless of what the mother decides (but that is another issue for another thread).

    Stick with unstoppable facts, like the FACT that late term partial birth abortion is equivalent to infant murder, pure and simple, and you wil win more arguments/debates than you lose. On an issue as important as this, you shouldn&#39;t give your opponent (the pro-abortion folks) ANY ammo to use against you.[/b][/quote]
    As a living unborn person its choice has got to be more important since its life is at stake. I know my daugther was just trying to get one to understand on a personel level the horror of an abortion.

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    [quote][b]As a living unborn person its choice has got to be more important since its life is at stake. I know my daugther was just trying to get one to understand on a personel level the horror of an abortion. [/b][/quote]

    Sorry my friend, but an unborn fetus, at any stage of development, does not have the brain function to make a "Choice" as you are implying. A non-sentiant, non-self-aware, completely subsistent being&#39;s "choice" to go on living is obviously completely at the discretion of others. That is why those who DO have dominion over these lives have to choose to have our society legally control behavior in order to protect the unborn.

    As I said, your (or your daughter&#39;s) argument against Abortion holds no water when you use weak emotional ploys to make a point that don&#39;t require weak emotional ploys.

    And I&#39;m sorry, but I would also question the intellectual and moral knowledge of the "horror of abortion" ANY eight year old, even a superiorly intelligent one, could truly posess and comprehend. No slight to you or yours, but your eight year old daughters position on the issues is about as meaninful and intellectually valid as my Cats. Your position is right, but your way of putting it across does nothing but give ammunition to the other side.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever+Oct 30 2004, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jets5ever &#064; Oct 30 2004, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Jetsfan80[/i]@Oct 30 2004, 10:06 PM
    [b] With abortion, I can&#39;t see why people make it to be a black and white issue. If you make it illegal, what happens if a woman gets raped and becomes pregnant. Would you want her to be forced to have the baby when there exists the possibility that she doesnt have to? No, you don&#39;t want to take away a life, but I wouldn&#39;t want my daughter have to wake up every day to see a child she knows she had because of a violation of her rights, a baby she never should have had. It&#39;s really a case by case situation, IMHO.

    I realize its a touchy subject, but I think I&#39;d rather SOME children not be born rather than grow up to be 1) idiots who make no contribution to society because of bad parenting and/or 2) future criminals due to genes and the environment he/she grows up in. It&#39;s probably a statement that many of you will not agree with, but IMO, a woman&#39;s body is her business, and we should keep it that way. [/b][/quote]
    80, it&#39;s not like abortion is like removing a kidney or something. It&#39;s not just &#39;her body.&#39;
    There is another person in this equation, boss. A living, breathing human being. The right to life that the unborn child has is greater than the right to not be inconvenienced that the mother has. Sorry, this is a no-brainer. Rape and incest cause less than one tenth of one percent of all abortions, that is a complete non-issue. Fine, you can have those. Abortion is a form of birth control. You know it, I know it...hell, moose know it. Women can give unwanted children up for adoption, we all know there are more than enough willing parents, ready to adopt. Murder is wrong. Killing babies is wrong. Abortion is AWFUL. Even pro-abortion people recognize this. They always couch their opinions in "women&#39;s rights" language, because they KNOW that the procedure of abortion is MURDER and they simply have to find a way to rationalize accepting its legality, so they can be guilt-free. It&#39;s a "woman&#39;s body" etc. Uh, no it isn&#39;t. It&#39;s not the woman&#39;s head that is crushed like a nut, it&#39;s not the woman&#39;s innards that are vaccuumed out. It&#39;s not the woman&#39;s life that is ended. Spare me this rationalization nonsense crap. It insults my intelligence. Either you think baby-killing is okay or you don&#39;t. Period. Feminism has nothing to do with it. Women DO have a choice, they CHOOSE to engage in activity that may get them pregnant. Rape and incest are red herrings. Women aren&#39;t pro-choice because they are deathly afraid of being impregnated after being raped, they are pro-choice because they want it as a form of birth control. Don&#39;t insult my intelligence or your own by hinting otherwise. They want an innocent, living, breathing human being to suffer for THEIR mistakes. The selfishness is APPALLING. Anyone who is pro-abortion is morally bankrupt. Sorry, that is just the way it is. There is no conceivable defense for beng pro-abortion. None.[/b][/quote]
    Great post totally agree&#33;

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    Fisher, why couldn&#39;t any woman give up an unwanted child for adoption? In your example, I would argue that the right of the unborn child to live supercedes the woman&#39;s right to not be inconvienenced. I mean that, truly. The woman in your example has CHOSEN to engage in activity that may get her pregnant. Nobody has forced her to do that. Her "pain and suffering" are nothing compared to the murder of a living human being. Your flip comments about a fetus at any stage of development are wayt off base, IMO. Please, please, please read up on fetal development during the various stages of pregnancy. Unborn children have complex brain activity, developed central nervous systems, beating hearts, respiratory systems, all six senses, and they excrete. They are no less helpless than a two week old baby. Children who are born are completely dependent on others for survival. Leave a born child alone and see how long it lasts alive. The only difference bewteen the two cases is the physical space in the universe that each child occupies. If a child occupies the right space (i.e., outside of a womb) apparently everyone is appalled at the notion of choosing to kill it. But if it occupies the wrong space (i.e. a womb) well, then, their right to life becomes subject to the whims of the woman in whose womb they reside, which is nonsense. A person&#39;s right to live supercedes a woman&#39;s right to not be annoyed. Abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with a "woman&#39;s body" as if a kidney is being removed. It has everything to do with the child&#39;s body. That is the issue.

    The only exceptions are obviously when the health of the mother is at stake. A woman should have some recourse if her heath is at risk by any pregnancy. Otherwise, it is murder...especially if it takes place after 8 weeks or so, IMO. The woman in your example should be tried for at LEAST aggravted assault, and likely manslaughter. No matter how unfair you think the government is being to a woman, or how much anyone tries to spin it as the government "forcing women" to do something, the horror of the government allowing the premeditated, cruel and painful butchering of innocent, defenseless human beings is infinitely worse. Sorry, there really is nothing to discuss. I appreciate that you are essentially pro-life here and I respect that you think about issues. But little case studies and devil&#39;s advocate examples bore me. Either someone approves of baby-killing or they don&#39;t. It&#39;s one of those issues that really is that simple.

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    Jets5ever, if you put it in those terms, then yes, I am for killing babies. If my mother truly wanted to abort me from the start, then I would rather be dead right now then live with a mother who didn&#39;t want me to start with. And don&#39;t tell me adoption is some wonderful alternative. I&#39;d prefer to have a loving relationship with my OWN mother, thanks.

    And anyways, I am not saying abortion is all right IN ALL CASES. I&#39;m saying that you simply cannot declare it ILLEGAL, because there are plenty of situations where that baby should not be born.

    And besides, what&#39;s more cruel; bringing a person into the world to live a ****ty life, or save him/her from it? I&#39;ll take the latter.

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    I thought the question here was partial birth abortion?

    Bottom Line: There was a bill to ban this homicidial maniac procedure {with a life of the mother exception} ... Bush supported it and Kerry voted against it ... end of story

    Oh yeah, and anyone who supports this procedure is indeed a homicidial maniac

    I see not a dimes worth of difference between a serial killer and one who would vote to maintain partial birth abortion ... only difference is the serial killer does his own killing, while the person who supports partial birth abortion gives the serial killers {i.e. anyone who would actually perform this procedure on a fully formed baby} a license to slaughter children who can absolutely {WHITHOUT QUESTION&#33;&#33;} live outside the womb

    And don&#39;t give me this BS about a health of the mother exception ... that is a total red herring cause "HEALTH" can mean anything {including mental health or a friggin head cold} ... the only possible exception can be LIFE OF THE MOTHER ... as in, she will SURELY DIE without the procedure ... anything else is complete and utter infantacide ... no different than Nazi scum tossing children in ovens

    That procedure is the height of barbarism ... it makes those who support this procedure the modern day King Herod&#39;s ... the man who gave the decree to put all the infants in Isreal to the sword

    Herod DID NOT put one infant to the sword himself ... his own hand never touched a blade ... but he was indeed the homicidal maniac who made it happen, and I have no doubt there was a special place reserved for this man IN HELL when he left this world

    [img]http://www.fumento.com/img4/abortion.jpg[/img]

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Oct 31 2004, 08:37 AM
    [b] Fisher, why couldn&#39;t any woman give up an unwanted child for adoption? In your example, I would argue that the right of the unborn child to live supercedes the woman&#39;s right to not be inconvienenced. I mean that, truly. The woman in your example has CHOSEN to engage in activity that may get her pregnant. Nobody has forced her to do that. Her "pain and suffering" are nothing compared to the murder of a living human being. Your flip comments about a fetus at any stage of development are wayt off base, IMO. Please, please, please read up on fetal development during the various stages of pregnancy. Unborn children have complex brain activity, developed central nervous systems, beating hearts, respiratory systems, all six senses, and they excrete. They are no less helpless than a two week old baby. Children who are born are completely dependent on others for survival. Leave a born child alone and see how long it lasts alive. The only difference bewteen the two cases is the physical space in the universe that each child occupies. If a child occupies the right space (i.e., outside of a womb) apparently everyone is appalled at the notion of choosing to kill it. But if it occupies the wrong space (i.e. a womb) well, then, their right to life becomes subject to the whims of the woman in whose womb they reside, which is nonsense. A person&#39;s right to live supercedes a woman&#39;s right to not be annoyed. Abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with a "woman&#39;s body" as if a kidney is being removed. It has everything to do with the child&#39;s body. That is the issue.

    The only exceptions are obviously when the health of the mother is at stake. A woman should have some recourse if her heath is at risk by any pregnancy. Otherwise, it is murder...especially if it takes place after 8 weeks or so, IMO. The woman in your example should be tried for at LEAST aggravted assault, and likely manslaughter. No matter how unfair you think the government is being to a woman, or how much anyone tries to spin it as the government "forcing women" to do something, the horror of the government allowing the premeditated, cruel and painful butchering of innocent, defenseless human beings is infinitely worse. Sorry, there really is nothing to discuss. I appreciate that you are essentially pro-life here and I respect that you think about issues. But little case studies and devil&#39;s advocate examples bore me. Either someone approves of baby-killing or they don&#39;t. It&#39;s one of those issues that really is that simple. [/b][/quote]
    Well Jets5, that sure was a longwinded mouthful, wasn&#39;t it eh? I&#39;m sorry "Devil&#39;s Advocate" arguments "bore you", but without them you can never truly understand an issue. If you want to choose to be closeminded, that is your right, but I will continue to look at both sides of EVERY issue before I create my opinion (which in this case [u]almost completely mirrors your own[/u], as I said above).

    And by the way, I wasn&#39;t being flip Mr. Arrogant. I take this issue deadly serious, which is why I will make every effort to understand the entire issue, not just oine side. I am getting a wee bit tired of your superiorism when it comes to my questions and positions these days. You are a damn good debater and a VERY intelligent posters, but your snide little superiorism when it comes to me is wearing thin my friend. As you so often criticise me, YOUR opinion is not the word of God either, so stop posting like you think it is.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Oct 31 2004, 12:55 PM
    [b]
    Well Jets5, that sure was a longwinded mouthful, wasn&#39;t it eh? I&#39;m sorry "Devil&#39;s Advocate" arguments "bore you", but without them you can never truly understand an issue. If you want to choose to be closeminded, that is your right, but I will continue to look at both sides of EVERY issue before I create my opinion (which in this case [u]almost completely mirrors your own[/u], as I said above).

    And by the way, I wasn&#39;t being flip Mr. Arrogant. I take this issue deadly serious, which is why I will make every effort to understand the entire issue, not just oine side. I am getting a wee bit tired of your superiorism when it comes to my questions and positions these days. You are a damn good debater and a VERY intelligent posters, but your snide little superiorism when it comes to me is wearing thin my friend. As you so often criticise me, YOUR opinion is not the word of God either, so stop posting like you think it is. [/b][/quote]
    I apologize if I come off that way, but to me, this subject is quite simple. I should have re-read your post, since you did preface it as being only for "debate purposes." I get very, very, very, very passionate when discussing this subject, so I am sorry about my tone. But I am not "close-minded." Having a strong opinion is not tantamount to being close-minded, especially if it is an informed opinion. This is a basic thing to me. I understand that you are a thinker and that you are open-minded, and I respect it and consider myself to be the same way. However, some issues are so basic that all of that goes out of the window, and this is one of them. Murder, rape, child abuse, abortion...are some examples. I don&#39;t need to talk to a rapist or hear stories about women who "asked for it" to "understand both sides" of the rape issue prior to making up my mind about it. Ditto for abortion. Harsh? Sure. But it&#39;s my opinion and I can back it up.

    Sorry for the tone. You&#39;re right, it was smug and arrogant of me.

  18. #18
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    [quote][b]And don&#39;t give me this BS about a health of the mother exception ... that is a total red herring cause "HEALTH" can mean anything {including mental health or a friggin head cold} ... the only possible exception can be LIFE OF THE MOTHER ... as in, she will SURELY DIE without the procedure ... anything else is complete and utter infantacide ... no different than Nazi scum tossing children in ovens
    [/b][/quote]

    That is the problem. Kerry didn&#39;t vote for the bill because there was no exception clause if the mother was in grave danger of dying without the procedure.

    Partial birth abortions were performed so rarely, they were not performed as regular abortions, they were performed when a womens life was at risk, or if the baby was essentially dead and wouldn&#39;t make it to term. You conservatives go on and on about the procedure itself.

    Abortions would happen even with the strictest laws you could think of. The difference being a sanitary medical office or in a backalley with a coat hangar.

    Ironically, conservatives with strong religious beliefs bring on more abortions because of the social stigma they attach to women who become pregnant out of wedlock or with god forbid a colored person etc...

  19. #19
    Jets Insider VIP
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    One problem I always had with abortion was the Women I was around
    in the Topless Biz treated abortion like a trip to the Dentist..I knew some
    girls of 23 that had more than 5 abortions..I know the Dems champion
    abortion but then protest the state ending the life of a heinous Murderer.. <_<
    If your for killing innocent Babies why can&#39;t you agree to kill Guilty
    Murderer&#39;s??? :rolleyes:

  20. #20
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    Jets5, no apology is EVER need from you my friend when it comes to our debates here. See your PM. :D

    Savage, you are 100% right, I saw it all the time in High School (scary a thought as that is). That action is treated by same no differently than buying a pack a gum. THAT is a terrifying thought.

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