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  1. #1
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    Kansas Board of Education removes evolution from science curriculum
    By Jerry White


    The Kansas Board of Education voted Wednesday to delete virtually all references to evolution, natural selection and the origins of the universe from the state's science curriculum. The decision represents the most far-reaching success thus far for the Religious Right and its attempt to ban Darwinism from public school classrooms in the US.

    Under the new guidelines for K-12 students, individual science teachers will not be barred from teaching evolution, but it will no longer be included in state tests, and therefore can be dropped from the curriculum of local school boards. Presented by the state board as a victory for local school "choice," the move is expected to encourage Christian conservatives to push for a complete ban on the teaching of evolution in local school districts and to force teachers to question the validity of evolution and teach creationism.

    Kenneth Miller, a Brown University biology professor and staunch advocate of teaching evolution, told the WSWS, "I think it's a dramatic step backward for science education in Kansas. What they have done is to cut the heart out of science, which is evolution. Of course this will embolden critics of evolution and serve to legitimize them. But in another way it may be productive, and serve as a wake-up call to the science community."

  2. #2
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    Yikes!

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 05:02 PM
    [b] Yikes! [/b][/quote]
    Are you being sarcastic? Or can you atleast agree that sometimes things go too far?

    This is the sort of thing I am afraid of.

    Even some of you conservatives were saying it wouldn't be so bad if Kerry won simply because there would be some balance (and that Hillary couldn't run in 08.)

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    Those of us who believe in science and scientific principles can only hope this is a fluke event that logic and common sense will correct, and not allow to be repeated.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15+Nov 5 2004, 04:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Section109Row15 @ Nov 5 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jets5ever[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 05:02 PM
    [b] Yikes&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Are you being sarcastic? Or can you atleast agree that sometimes things go too far?

    This is the sort of thing I am afraid of.

    Even some of you conservatives were saying it wouldn&#39;t be so bad if Kerry won simply because there would be some balance (and that Hillary couldn&#39;t run in 08.) [/b][/quote]
    I think his "Yikes&#33;" was sincere. It&#39;s the best scientific "theory" we have since obviously none of us were around when it happened. It should be taught.

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    08 is new day..Hopefully we can make it there...but bush/cheney will be gone..the gop will not put fourth some hard core religo..
    we just need to last till 08 &#33;&#33;

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:14 PM
    [b] 08 is new day..Hopefully we can make it there...but bush/cheney will be gone..the gop will not put fourth some hard core religo..
    we just need to last till 08 &#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
    4 years is a long long time. You&#39;ll be old enough to drink by then.

  8. #8
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    BRAVO&#33;&#33;

    They should ban evolution from being taught in public schools ... it is a theory, not a fact

    The worst kind of junk science imaginable, and the theory itself changes every so often

    Lastly, it is the religion of the athiest ... plain and simple ... and why should their ideas {i.e. theories} be given a forum in taxpayer schools?

    Since the overwhelming majority of this nation is religious in one form or another, why should taxpayer schools be teaching atheism?

    And again, we are talking about theories here ... NOT FACTS ... this is [b]the theory of evolution[/b]

    I happen to believe we SHOULD NOT be teaching creation in public schools either ... this should be left up to the parents ... if they wanna teach their kids evolution, fine ... if they wanna teach their kids creation, that&#39;s fine too ... but it is not the job of the public taxpayer schools to be choosing sides and teaching an atheist theory disguised as fact

    So I applaud the good folks of Kansas ... BRAVO&#33;&#33;

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    we should teach them that story of christ is 2000 years old and very well could be nothing but a fairy tale&#33;

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:19 PM
    [b] we should teach them that story of christ is 2000 years old and very well could be nothing but a fairy tale&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Sure, you can try that too ... this way we can have 90 seats in the Senate and 400 seats in the House

    And a lock on the Presidancy to boot

    So you have my blessing with this plan ... GO FOR IT ;)

  11. #11
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:17 PM
    [b] BRAVO&#33;&#33;

    They should ban evolution from being taught in public schools ... it is a theory, not a fact

    The worst kind of junk science imaginable, and the theory itself changes every so often

    Lastly, it is the religious of the athiest ... plain and simple ... and why should their ideas {i.e. theories} be given a forum in taxpayer schools?

    Since the overwhelming majority of this nation is religious in one form or another, why should taxpayer schools be teaching atheism?

    And again, we are talking about theories here ... NOT FACTS ... this is [b]the theory of evolution[/b]

    I happen to believe we SHOULD NOT be teaching creation in public schools either ... this should be left up to the parents ... if they wanna teach their kids evolution, fine ... if they wanna teach their kids creation, that&#39;s fine too ... but it is not the job of the public taxpayer shcools to be choosing sides and teaching an atheist theory disguised as fact

    So I applaud the good folks of Kansas ... BRAVO&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
    The differnce is that Evolution is a "Theory" backed up by a very large amount of research, physical evidence and sound scientific work.

    Creationism is not backed by any of those things.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:22 PM
    [b] The differnce is that Evolution is a "Theory" backed up by a very large amount of research, physical evidence and sound scientific work.

    Creationism is not backed by any of those things. [/b][/quote]
    I don&#39;t give a crap what it&#39;s backed by ... it&#39;s not a proven fact ... period

    And we should not be in the business of using taxpayer schools to pawn off theories as facts

    I repeat ... I am also NOT in favor of teaching creation in taxpayer schools

    What a parent chooses to teach his child in this regard is the parents business, not yours or mine

    That is, unless you have an indisputable scientific fact you wish to teach ... but is that what we&#39;re talking about here?

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 04:17 PM
    [b] BRAVO&#33;&#33;

    They should ban evolution from being taught in public schools ... it is a theory, not a fact

    The worst kind of junk science imaginable, and the theory itself changes every so often

    Lastly, it is the religion of the athiest ... plain and simple ... and why should their ideas {i.e. theories} be given a forum in taxpayer schools?

    Since the overwhelming majority of this nation is religious in one form or another, why should taxpayer schools be teaching atheism?

    And again, we are talking about theories here ... NOT FACTS ... this is [b]the theory of evolution[/b]

    I happen to believe we SHOULD NOT be teaching creation in public schools either ... this should be left up to the parents ... if they wanna teach their kids evolution, fine ... if they wanna teach their kids creation, that&#39;s fine too ... but it is not the job of the public taxpayer schools to be choosing sides and teaching an atheist theory disguised as fact

    So I applaud the good folks of Kansas ... BRAVO&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
    oh no...
    INCOMING&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

  14. #14
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by bman[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 02:55 PM
    [b] Kansas Board of Education removes evolution from science curriculum
    By Jerry White


    The Kansas Board of Education voted Wednesday to delete virtually all references to evolution, natural selection and the origins of the universe from the state&#39;s science curriculum. The decision represents the most far-reaching success thus far for the Religious Right and its attempt to ban Darwinism from public school classrooms in the US.

    Under the new guidelines for K-12 students, individual science teachers will not be barred from teaching evolution, but it will no longer be included in state tests, and therefore can be dropped from the curriculum of local school boards. Presented by the state board as a victory for local school "choice," the move is expected to encourage Christian conservatives to push for a complete ban on the teaching of evolution in local school districts and to force teachers to question the validity of evolution and teach creationism.

    Kenneth Miller, a Brown University biology professor and staunch advocate of teaching evolution, told the WSWS, "I think it&#39;s a dramatic step backward for science education in Kansas. What they have done is to cut the heart out of science, which is evolution. Of course this will embolden critics of evolution and serve to legitimize them. But in another way it may be productive, and serve as a wake-up call to the science community." [/b][/quote]
    This is bad. Taking things too far in my opinion.

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    Yes, I was being serious. Ham, gravity is a theory too, should we stop teaching that?

    I have no problem if schools want to incorporate some sort of "intelligent design" stuff, but to simply ignore evolution is wrong, IMO. Knowledge is never the problem, and is usually part of the solution.

    Evolution is not tantamount to atheism, that is a dangerous oversimplification. The Book of Genesis is NOT the literal version of what created this earth. And even if it was, we&#39;d have no way of proving it, so it, too, is just a "theory." One of many, none more plausible than any other. Just because you or any other number of people have a deep emotional attachment to it does not give it scientific merit. Evolution is also a misleading word, since, as you point out, many deep divisions exist within this theory, especially between people like Stephen Jay Gould and Darwin himself.

    Galileo was imprisoned for teaching that the earth revolved around the sun. It was a theory of his at the time. He was called an atheist, and people thought that those teachings were dangerous. But knowledge is not dangerous. Knowledge is not the problem. It is what we DO with that knowledge that carries risk. Religion teaches people to deal well with knowledge, or, it [i]should.[/i] We all know how to kill a person. That is not why murders occur. Rather, they occur because of the flaws in the moral fiber of particular people. The way to stop murder is not to stop teaching biology, it is to teach people the value of human life, which is what religion recognizes. Religion CAN be a large force for positive things in this world, but they are WAY OFF here, IMO....

    Science is not a monolith, there are disagreements and changes and fluidity as the depth and breadth of our knowledge base expands and evolves. Simply stopping the clock at any given point during this process and discarding everything that is just a "theory" at that point is madness. Madness. Surely you see that&#33;

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Enrique Pallazzo[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:31 PM
    [b] oh no...
    INCOMING&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
    :D

    I don&#39;t care if there&#39;s incoming ... I love having the balls to fight for what&#39;s right, even if it isn&#39;t fashionable

    Too many people nowdays take their marching orders from the intelligencia ... GOD forbid they should challenge these folks and be preceived as stupid ... but as for me, I take my marching orders from no man

  17. #17
    TomShane
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    Ham, if that&#39;s the case then they can stop teaching physics, most of History, English lit study (all based on theory), Language study, basically everything is based on one theory or another.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:33 PM
    [b] Yes, I was being serious. Ham, gravity is a theory too, should we stop teaching that?

    I have no problem if schools want to incorporate some sort of "intelligent design" stuff, but to simply ignore evolution is wrong, IMO. Knowledge is never the problem, and is usually part of the solution.

    Evolution is not tantamount to atheism, that is a dangerous oversimplification. The Book of Genesis is NOT the literal version of what created this earth. And even if it was, we&#39;d have no way of proving it, so it, too, is just a "theory." One of many, none more plausible than any other. Just because you or any other number of people have a deep emotional attachment to it does not give it scientific merit. [/b][/quote]
    What do you have a reading comprehension problem today?

    How many times must I say that I also DO NOT favor using taxpayer schools to teach creation either?

    Taxpayer schools should NOT be in the business of teaching either of the two

    If I happen to be an atheist, you have no right to teach my children creation

    And conversely, if I happen to subscribe to Genisis {i.e. creation}, you have no right to tell my children I&#39;m a liar or even wrong ... especially when you have no definitive proof to back it up

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:34 PM
    [b] Ham, if that&#39;s the case then they can stop teaching physics, most of History, English lit study (all based on theory), Language study, basically everything is based on one theory or another. [/b][/quote]
    TS, huge difference ... when you teach evolution you are delving into the area of religion ... you are telling millions of children that their religious doctrine is wrong ... and if you are gonna take that position, you better have definitive proof

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 5 2004, 03:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 5 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 5 2004, 03:22 PM
    [b] The differnce is that Evolution is a "Theory" backed up by a very large amount of research, physical evidence and sound scientific work.

    Creationism is not backed by any of those things. [/b][/quote]
    I don&#39;t give a crap what it&#39;s backed by ... it&#39;s not a proven fact ... period

    And we should not be in the business of using taxpayer schools to pawn off theories as facts

    I repeat ... I am also NOT in favor of teaching creation in taxpayer schools

    What a parent chooses to teach his child in this regard is the parents business, not yours or mine

    That is, unless you have an indisputable scientific fact you wish to teach ... but is that what we&#39;re talking about here? [/b][/quote]
    If you remove everything that is not solid "proven" fact, a large portion of the Sciences (as well as un-provable disciplines, such as Psychology, Philosophy, much of History (especially Ancient history)) and a cadre of other topics would also thus have to be removed from public education. Astronomy, as a Science, would have to be scrapped almost completely, as 99% of it is theory.

    In effect, you appear (via this line of argument) to be against the Public School system as a whole. In THAT line of argument, I would agree. ALL education should be private. Those who wish to learn "creationism" can go to their schools, and those who wish to persue science can go to their own schools too. Plus we lose the vile teachers union, and the whole "religion in school" issue.

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