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Thread: More from our liberal friends...great patriots!

  1. #41
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 03:57 PM
    [b]
    You may think that everyone here is in support for comprehensive sex education, but that is not the case. Catholics don't believe in contraception. Bush sent one of his aides to the world summit on overpopulation, and the guy stood infront of the summit and told them that abstinence programs are the way to curb over population. Don't be so naive to think that the Republican party as a whole shares your Guilliani moderate views. The base of the Republican party is fighting for creationism, abstinence programs, etc... Wake-up. [/b][/quote]
    Section, you mischaracterize. Talking about abstinence is not bad per se. Abstinece-only is off base, IMO. But talking about the benefits abstience [i]should [/i]be part of a well-rounded sexuality course.

    Some Catholics are against birth control. Catholic teaching certainly is, but not all Catholics follow the teaching to the letter. Me, for example. 48% of Catholics voted for Kerry, etc.

  2. #42
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 11:00 AM
    [b] How dare you kill a living human being?

    Do you deny that the vast majority fo abortions are performed for birth control purposes?

    You don't care about the lives of unborn children, I do. We are not talking about a kidney here, R. Tyme. We are not saying that a woman can't choose what to do about a cancerous kidney. We are talking about a living, breathing human being. It's not a casserole that's baking in there, it is a person, and that person has rights that supercede your right to not be inconvenienced.

    Your post is indiciative of your selfish mind-set. Me, me, me, me, me, me.

    So, there is no rational defense of the pre-meditated slaughter of innocent human beings. None. I don't care of you get outraged or not. Women DO have control - they CHOOSE to engage in activity that may get them pregnant. Biology, not oppession or the government, dictates that women get pregnant. That's the way it is. Speculating about how the world would be if men got pregnant instead is pointless and unrealistic, unless you are enrolled in a creative writing class. [/b][/quote]
    A person? a human being with rights at the cell stage? when was this defined? Biology may dictate who carries a child, but you or anyone else have no right to dictate whether a woman carries or not carries out a pregnancy. And it is a very *personal* and intimate decision at that.

    When did I say abortion should be used as birth control? What I said was that I am for 100% birth control education. I’d like to see it not have to come down to an abortion decision.

    Pleez....spare me your righteousness and rhetoric. It is a woman's decision...sorry if that just bugs the hell out of some of you that you have no control over that and shouldn’t. Calling it selfish is too easy and assuming. And let’s not forget that it takes 2 to make a pregnancy, last I heard.

  3. #43
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Nov 9 2004, 06:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Nov 9 2004, 06:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Section109Row15[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 03:57 PM
    [b] [quote][b]Actualy I believe they care about innocent life. I dont think the death penalty applies to innocents. I would also guess that every poster here would be in favor of sex education to include contraception methods.

    You are the hypocrite that puts words into peoples mouths. [/b][/quote]

    The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment. The people put to death are not always guilty, they are not always fairly represented, and they are disproportionatly minorities. Add to that the fact that it costs more to put someone to death than to have them in prison for life.

    [/b][/quote]
    Abortion is cruel and unusual punishment....The babies put to death are NEVER guilty and they are NEVER fairly represented. [/b][/quote]
    Anything that hasn&#39;t been born can&#39;t be murdered.

    Now I will agree that late-term abortions are going over the edge as the fetuses are nearly completly formed. But 6-8 weeks into a pregnancy they are not mature enough to be considered a life yet.

    If you guys are so adamant about abortions why don&#39;t you protest eating eggs or caviar, you are eating an aborted fetus.

    As for partial-birth abortion, it was not used as a form of birth control, it was an emergency procedure performed to save a womens life or if the baby was essentially dead inside the womb. Get over your moral-superiority complex.

  4. #44
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    [quote][b]Some Catholics are against birth control. Catholic teaching certainly is, but not all Catholics follow the teaching to the letter. Me, for example. 48% of Catholics voted for Kerry, etc.
    [/b][/quote]

    Contrary to what you may have heard, it isn&#39;t a sin to vote for Kerry.

  5. #45
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15+Nov 9 2004, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Section109Row15 @ Nov 9 2004, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Nov 9 2004, 06:02 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Section109Row15[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 03:57 PM
    [b] [quote][b]Actualy I believe they care about innocent life. I dont think the death penalty applies to innocents. I would also guess that every poster here would be in favor of sex education to include contraception methods.

    You are the hypocrite that puts words into peoples mouths. [/b][/quote]

    The death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment. The people put to death are not always guilty, they are not always fairly represented, and they are disproportionatly minorities. Add to that the fact that it costs more to put someone to death than to have them in prison for life.

    [/b][/quote]
    Abortion is cruel and unusual punishment....The babies put to death are NEVER guilty and they are NEVER fairly represented. [/b][/quote]
    Anything that hasn&#39;t been born can&#39;t be murdered.

    Now I will agree that late-term abortions are going over the edge as the fetuses are nearly completly formed. But 6-8 weeks into a pregnancy they are not mature enough to be considered a life yet.

    If you guys are so adamant about abortions why don&#39;t you protest eating eggs or caviar, you are eating an aborted fetus.

    As for partial-birth abortion, it was not used as a form of birth control, it was an emergency procedure performed to save a womens life or if the baby was essentially dead inside the womb. Get over your moral-superiority complex. [/b][/quote]
    Like I&#39;ve previously posted...the libs will continue to delude themselves that it is not their policies which are out of touch with America but 60-million Americans which are out of touch with them....continue the death march...oh, wait; didn&#39;t you already attend one of them in D.C. earlier this year with a bunch of other hypocrites??

  6. #46
    Not all Republicans are anti-Abortion CBTNY, you are unable to discuss an issue with out tossing out some "lib" comment. It is repulsive.

    I was in the 60ish million that voted for Bush as is my lady, we are both 100% pro-choice.

    You and your cohorts do nothing but spew hate and rehtoric. I feel your unable to have a rational discussion with anyone who has a different view. You wear it as a badge of honor, when it is a badge of ignorance.

  7. #47
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by ShadeTree#55[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:25 PM
    [b] Not all Republicans are anti-Abortion CBTNY, you are unable to discuss an issue with out tossing out some "lib" comment. It is repulsive.

    I was in the 60ish million that voted for Bush as is my lady, we are both 100% pro-choice.

    You and your cohorts do nothing but spew hate and rehtoric. I feel your unable to have a rational discussion with anyone who has a different view. You wear it as a badge of honor, when it is a badge of ignorance. [/b][/quote]
    save it for the next protest internet tough guy.

    And while you&#39;re at it take your head out of your ass and read.....I&#39;ve stated in posts in this thread that I agree with abortion in cetain instances as well as the opening post when I said that one of the pictures was previously argued on this forum.

  8. #48
    There is always something to protest, right?...You jaded pseudo-hippie radical.

    Your a joke, just like your cronies at protestwarrior.

  9. #49
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by ShadeTree#55[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:30 PM
    [b] There is always something to protest, right?...You jaded pseudo-hippie radical.

    Your a joke, just like your cronies at protestwarrior. [/b][/quote]
    wow...that&#39;s real mean.

  10. #50
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme+Nov 9 2004, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (R. Tyme &#064; Nov 9 2004, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jets5ever[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 11:00 AM
    [b] How dare you kill a living human being?

    Do you deny that the vast majority fo abortions are performed for birth control purposes?

    You don&#39;t care about the lives of unborn children, I do. We are not talking about a kidney here, R. Tyme. We are not saying that a woman can&#39;t choose what to do about a cancerous kidney. We are talking about a living, breathing human being. It&#39;s not a casserole that&#39;s baking in there, it is a person, and that person has rights that supercede your right to not be inconvenienced.

    Your post is indiciative of your selfish mind-set. Me, me, me, me, me, me.

    So, there is no rational defense of the pre-meditated slaughter of innocent human beings. None. I don&#39;t care of you get outraged or not. Women DO have control - they CHOOSE to engage in activity that may get them pregnant. Biology, not oppession or the government, dictates that women get pregnant. That&#39;s the way it is. Speculating about how the world would be if men got pregnant instead is pointless and unrealistic, unless you are enrolled in a creative writing class. [/b][/quote]
    A person? a human being with rights at the cell stage? when was this defined? Biology may dictate who carries a child, but you or anyone else have no right to dictate whether a woman carries or not carries out a pregnancy. And it is a very *personal* and intimate decision at that.

    When did I say abortion should be used as birth control? What I said was that I am for 100% birth control education. I’d like to see it not have to come down to an abortion decision.

    Pleez....spare me your righteousness and rhetoric. It is a woman&#39;s decision...sorry if that just bugs the hell out of some of you that you have no control over that and shouldn’t. Calling it selfish is too easy and assuming. And let’s not forget that it takes 2 to make a pregnancy, last I heard. [/b][/quote]
    Look, you have no problem mudering a living, breathing human being. You can dress it up as an empowerment issue all you want, I don&#39;t care and it has no bearing on what you actually support. You know and I know that it isn&#39;t merely a group of cells that is being extracted. Abortions stop [i]beating hearts[/i]. You know that. Everyone knows that. Abortions are very painful for the unborn child. You know this as well. You know there is a difference between a 12-week old fetus and a "group of cells", and an 18-week old fetus, etc. You can talk about intimacy, or personal choices all you want. That is all window-dressing, meant to distract people from the only pertinent issue, which is that innocent, defenseless and living human beings are being killed because of the whims of women.

    Abortion is murder. That is simply not debatable, especially not among educated people with even a superficial exposure to basic biology. You either support that murder or you don&#39;t. Abortion is awful, period. It&#39;s pretty basic stuff.

  11. #51
    What about the morning after pill? Is that murder?

  12. #52
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    No, it&#39;s not.

    My objections are not religious at all. To be frank, I don&#39;t really even believe in God, per se. And I am unsure as to when "life" begins, and don&#39;t have any special allegience to conception as being the beginning of actual life. However, I feel that a beating heart is clear and undebatable proof that life exists, which is why I object to abortions after week 6 or so.

    I&#39;ve said it a million times - I&#39;d even pay higher taxes to fund a program which provided women with free pregnancy tests and free abortions, provided that they get the abortion done early on in the pregnancy. Any woman could get a preggo test every month, if they wanted, or more frequently than that, even. If they want an abortion, it&#39;s free, but they have to do it prior to week 8 (being flexible, even tthough personally I object to doing it that late) or something. This way, no 14-, 16-, 20- or 24-week (or older) unborn children are butchered, and women don&#39;t have to whine about losing "choice" and no one can claim that poor women are "excluded" from this program or being deined "choice." This wouldn&#39;t be my ideal, but it&#39;d be a compromise and a rational one, IMO. Anything would be better than what we have now, IMO....

  13. #53
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:42 PM
    [b] Look, you have no problem mudering a living, breathing human being. You can dress it up as an empowerment issue all you want, I don&#39;t care and it has no bearing on what you actually support. You know and I know that it isn&#39;t merely a group of cells that is being extracted. Abortions stop [i]beating hearts[/i]. You know that. Everyone knows that. Abortions are very painful for the unborn child. You know this as well. You know there is a difference between a 12-week old fetus and a "group of cells", and an 18-week old fetus, etc. You can talk about intimacy, or personal choices all you want. That is all window-dressing, meant to distract people from the only pertinent issue, which is that innocent, defenseless and living human beings are being killed because of the whims of women.

    Abortion is murder. That is simply not debatable, especially not among educated people with even a superficial exposure to basic biology. You either support that murder or you don&#39;t. Abortion is awful, period. It&#39;s pretty basic stuff. [/b][/quote]
    Not only do you want to dictate what decision I should make regarding pregnancy, now you want to tell me what I know. Are you suggesting that I am uneducated? You are a real tool. I support woman and their ability to make their own decisions in such a personal matter. You approach the topic the way you want and I&#39;ll approach it from my perspective-- my female perspective which you don&#39;t have. You so flippantly talk of "inconvenience" and woman "whims" in your rhetoric --that says a lot about your opinion of women. A pregnancy affects everything-- a mental state, an emotional state, the physical, economic, moral, commitment....everything, it hits all targets at the same time. That&#39;s a heavy load. Sorry if as a man, you cannot appreciate the complexity of it nor will you ever experience it... because of biology.

  14. #54
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 05:15 PM
    [b] No, it&#39;s not.

    My objections are not religious at all. To be frank, I don&#39;t really even believe in God, per se. And I am unsure as to when "life" begins, and don&#39;t have any special allegience to conception as being the beginning of actual life. However, I feel that a beating heart is clear and undebatable proof that life exists, which is why I object to abortions after week 6 or so.

    I&#39;ve said it a million times - I&#39;d even pay higher taxes to fund a program which provided women with free pregnancy tests and free abortions, provided that they get the abortion done early on in the pregnancy. Any woman could get a preggo test every month, if they wanted, or more frequently than that, even. If they want an abortion, it&#39;s free, but they have to do it prior to week 8 (being flexible, even tthough personally I object to doing it that late) or something. This way, no 14-, 16-, 20- or 24-week (or older) unborn children are butchered, and women don&#39;t have to whine about losing "choice" and no one can claim that poor women are "excluded" from this program or being deined "choice." This wouldn&#39;t be my ideal, but it&#39;d be a compromise and a rational one, IMO. Anything would be better than what we have now, IMO.... [/b][/quote]
    I cannot believe this.

    Based on your own opinion, you don&#39;t feel the morning after pill is "murder"? how so that&#39;s different based on your own opinions you stated here?

    And *you* are unsure when life begins, yet you throw out a word like uneducated in another post. You referred to embryos as living human beings and persons with rights...now they&#39;re just a heartbeat? Life, a heartbeat or persons within a uterus with rights? which is it?

  15. #55
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    R.Tyme, you consistently miss my point. When did I say "just a heartbeat?" When do YOU think life begins? I didn&#39;t call you uneducated.

    You&#39;re a woman - I get it. You&#39;ve really driven that point home. What bearing that has on the ending of a life I don&#39;t know, but you&#39;ve made your gender abundently clear.

    I make a distinction beteen the murder of a 12- or 18-week old, living, breathing human fetus - which has a beating heart, a central nervous system and can feel pain, etc - with the morning-after pill. I am sorry that this makes my position less vulberable to your sexist attitudes or makes it far more difficult to put me in a box, but I am getting tired of your "you don&#39;t know how [i]hard it is[/i]" routine. You&#39;re a woman - good for you. Maybe you should think about how being pregnant "affects" things before you engage in activity that is likely to result in a pregnancy. Adoption is an option. Birth controll pills are options. Don&#39;t lecture me about control issues, or about how I want to "dictate" things to you. I am merely stating a biological fact that abortions stop beating hearts and are painful for the aborted fetuses and are a procedure that ends a human life. If you could get over your self-righteous female emoting, you&#39;d realize that the lack of a beating heart is why I don&#39;t think the MAP is murder.

  16. #56
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 05:40 PM
    [b] R.Tyme, you consistently miss my point. When did I say "just a heartbeat?" When do YOU think life begins? I didn&#39;t call you uneducated.

    You&#39;re a woman - I get it. You&#39;ve really driven that point home. What bearing that has on the ending of a life I don&#39;t know, but you&#39;ve made your gender abundently clear.

    I make a distinction beteen the murder of a 12- or 18-week old, living, breathing human fetus - which has a beating heart, a central nervous system and can feel pain, etc - with the morning-after pill. I am sorry that this makes my position less vulberable to your sexist attitudes or makes it far more difficult to put me in a box, but I am getting tired of your "you don&#39;t know how [i]hard it is[/i]" routine. You&#39;re a woman - good for you. Maybe you should think about how being pregnant "affects" things before you engage in activity that is likely to result in a pregnancy. Adoption is an option. Birth controll pills are options. Don&#39;t lecture me about control issues, or about how I want to "dictate" things to you. I am merely stating a biological fact that abortions stop beating hearts and are painful for the aborted fetuses and are a procedure that ends a human life. If you could get over your self-righteous female emoting, you&#39;d realize that the lack of a beating heart is why I don&#39;t think the MAP is murder. [/b][/quote]
    Then we&#39;re in agreement. I am tired of you also. Glad my gender is clear to you, that&#39;s all you got out of it? <roll eyes> Why would I expect any different from someone who throws out words like "inconvience" "whims" and now "whine" about losing choice.

    You make these extreme statements about abortion-- it&#39;s horrible, it&#39;s murder etc. then you compromise. First it&#39;s murder of a person with rights above a woman&#39;s right then you&#39;re talking about abortion is okay as long as it&#39;s in the early weeks. I never said I was for late term abortions either.

    I think we should quit now, I see we&#39;re both getting pissed off personally at each other and that&#39;s not good. You&#39;ve every right to respond to this and keep talking if you want. I&#39;m pretty much done.

  17. #57
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme+Nov 9 2004, 07:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (R. Tyme &#064; Nov 9 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jets5ever[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 05:40 PM
    [b] R.Tyme, you consistently miss my point. When did I say "just a heartbeat?" When do YOU think life begins? I didn&#39;t call you uneducated.

    You&#39;re a woman - I get it. You&#39;ve really driven that point home. What bearing that has on the ending of a life I don&#39;t know, but you&#39;ve made your gender abundently clear.

    I make a distinction beteen the murder of a 12- or 18-week old, living, breathing human fetus - which has a beating heart, a central nervous system and can feel pain, etc - with the morning-after pill. I am sorry that this makes my position less vulberable to your sexist attitudes or makes it far more difficult to put me in a box, but I am getting tired of your "you don&#39;t know how [i]hard it is[/i]" routine. You&#39;re a woman - good for you. Maybe you should think about how being pregnant "affects" things before you engage in activity that is likely to result in a pregnancy. Adoption is an option. Birth controll pills are options. Don&#39;t lecture me about control issues, or about how I want to "dictate" things to you. I am merely stating a biological fact that abortions stop beating hearts and are painful for the aborted fetuses and are a procedure that ends a human life. If you could get over your self-righteous female emoting, you&#39;d realize that the lack of a beating heart is why I don&#39;t think the MAP is murder. [/b][/quote]
    Then we&#39;re in agreement. I am tired of you also. Glad my gender is clear to you, that&#39;s all you got out of it? <roll eyes> Why would I expect any different from someone who throws out words like "inconvience" "whims" and now "whine" about losing choice.

    You make these extreme statements about abortion-- it&#39;s horrible, it&#39;s murder etc. then you compromise. First it&#39;s murder of a person with rights above a woman&#39;s right then you&#39;re talking about abortion is okay as long as it&#39;s in the early weeks. I never said I was for late term abortions either.

    I think we should quit now, I see we&#39;re both getting pissed off personally at each other and that&#39;s not good. You&#39;ve every right to respond to this and keep talking if you want. I&#39;m pretty much done. [/b][/quote]
    Half of the country is anti-abortion. It&#39;s hardly an extreme view.

    I mentioned that I was willing to negotiate a realistic compromise regarding existing laws, even though personally, I feel that abortions as early as 5 or 6 weeks are awful. The morning-after pill is different than aborting a 17-week old fetus. You know this. I am not religious, and do not believe that we can prove that life 100% beginds at conception.

    [b]Abortion:[/b] the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, [b]resulting in[/b], or closely followed by [b]the death [/b]of the embryo or fetus:

    Abortion is murder, by definition. It ends life. This is not a debatable point, it is a fact. Abortions kill unborn children that would have otherwise lived. The children are living before the abortion, and die as a result of it. Everyone knows this. Often, these deaths are extremely painful for the unborn children. You either care more about some vague notion of "choice" than you do about murder, or you don&#39;t. The overwhelming majority of abortions are done for bitrth control, for women who knowingly consented to engaging in activity that got them pregnant. Women do have choices - they can choose to practice safe sex, give up a child for adoption, etc. All you talk about in your defense of the murder of living children is how difficult it is to be a woman. Boo-freaking-hoo. It&#39;s a lot harder to have your cranium crushed, your brains sucked out and your body torn apart, I&#39;d imagine....

  18. #58
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    [quote][b]It&#39;s a lot harder to have your cranium crushed, your brains sucked out and your body torn apart, I&#39;d imagine....
    [/b][/quote]

    Give it a rest already. I respect your views on abortion, but stop trying to be a sensationalist. What you describe is a partial-birth abortion which you know the facts on, it is not the method used for normal abortions. I know you know the facts of partial-birth abortion so stop trying to use it as shock value, equating the practice with standard abortions.

  19. #59
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Nov 10 2004, 10:59 AM
    [b] [quote][b]It&#39;s a lot harder to have your cranium crushed, your brains sucked out and your body torn apart, I&#39;d imagine....
    [/b][/quote]

    Give it a rest already. I respect your views on abortion, but stop trying to be a sensationalist. What you describe is a partial-birth abortion which you know the facts on, it is not the method used for normal abortions. I know you know the facts of partial-birth abortion so stop trying to use it as shock value, equating the practice with standard abortions. [/b][/quote]
    Section, D&E&#39;s are done even at 12 weeks, vaccuum aspiration is done prior to 12 weeks. It is not a gentle procedure for the "tissue." I am not being a sensationalist. It is a horrible procedure. You support abortion, why do details about the procedure bother you? You support late-term abortion as well.

    Abortions are great - we should have them live on prime-time TV. Everyone can "Ooh" and "Aah" whenever a piece of tissue is extracted, or the fetus is &#39;reduced.&#39; Perhaps we&#39;d all cry tears of joy at how empowering it is for women&#33;

  20. #60
    They are all just a bunch of tree hugging cowards....

    A funny story. My friends and I were walking downtown one day, when we noticed a anti-war protest getting over. There were a few hippies walking our way with peace signs on and stupid anti bush signs. My friend went up to one that was wearing a "peace is the only way shirt" and pushed him down, the hippie got up and took a swing at him ( like a girl I might add ), my friend just pushed him down again and asked " I thought peace is the only way, why did you just try and hit me" The hippie replied you hit me first and then my friend just laughed and said. "see I made my point ". My other friend had to explain it was the same thing we the US did after we were attacked by the coward muslim scum....

    Then we went to a pub and had a few and laughed all day about it...

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