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Thread: Yassir Arafat....Rot In Hell......

  1. #21
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by mrcoops[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 04:52 AM
    [b] My god, I've read some ill-informed, bile-filed nonsense on this board before, but this one takes the biscuit. Arafat a terrorist, and the Israelis are all innocent, peace loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly? What utter, utter nonsense.

    If you want to start a war against so called 'terrorist' states, then Israel would be a good place to start. Iraq was decimated on the basis that it allegedly flouted a couple of UN resolutions. Israel has been flouting dozens of UN resolutions for decades, and happily uses its (US supplied) weapons of mass destruction to murder innocent Palestinian women and children.

    Heck, if I lived in Palestine, I'd be fighting against THAT injustice too. [/b][/quote]
    You are quite simply one of the most uninformed posters I have ever seen. Arafat is a terrorist. His legacy was to train children to strap bombs to themselves. Arafat rejected peace plan after peace plan even when they gave in to all of his demands. He them proceeded to steal billions of dollars of aid money which had been intended to help his people. Before you talk out of your ass about a subject you obviously know nothing about I suggest you read Dennis Ross' book on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Get informed before you talk out of your ass.

  2. #22
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by chiefst2000[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 10:27 AM
    [b]
    You are quite simply one of the most uninformed posters I have ever seen. Arafat is a terrorist. His legacy was to train children to strap bombs to themselves. Arafat rejected peace plan after peace plan even when they gave in to all of his demands. He them proceeded to steal billions of dollars of aid money which had been intended to help his people. Before you talk out of your ass about a subject you obviously know nothing about I suggest you read Dennis Ross' book on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Get informed before you talk out of your ass. [/b][/quote]
    Which one? I'm always hungry for a good read.

  3. #23
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    Arafat did nothing but steal from and hurt his people.

  4. #24
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Enrique Pallazzo+Nov 11 2004, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Enrique Pallazzo @ Nov 11 2004, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-chiefst2000[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 10:27 AM
    [b]
    You are quite simply one of the most uninformed posters I have ever seen. Arafat is a terrorist. His legacy was to train children to strap bombs to themselves. Arafat rejected peace plan after peace plan even when they gave in to all of his demands. He them proceeded to steal billions of dollars of aid money which had been intended to help his people. Before you talk out of your ass about a subject you obviously know nothing about I suggest you read Dennis Ross&#39; book on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Get informed before you talk out of your ass. [/b][/quote]
    Which one? I&#39;m always hungry for a good read. [/b][/quote]
    The Missing Peace : The Inside Story of the Fight for Middle East Peace
    by Dennis Ross
    [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374199736/qid=1100183494/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-5778756-8355326?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]Buy it on Amazon[/url]


    Ross was the negotiator for Clinton who basically engineered the entire Oslo process. The book goes through the background of the conflict from the establishment of the state through the breakdown of the Olso accords. It is an honest and critical look at both sides of the issue.

  5. #25
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    It must be wonderful to live in a world where everything is so black and white. Where Israeli = good guy and Palestinian = bad guy.

    Did I say that Arafat was perfect? No. Did I deny that Palestinians use guerilla tactics to fight their Israeli occupiers? No.

    What I did was acknowledge that the Palestinians are in a no-win situation. They have no country of their own, and live in extreme poverty under the jackboot of occupation of their much more powerful, much better funded, and much better armed neighbour.

    They use guerilla tactics because it&#39;s the only option available to them. Am I saying it&#39;s right? No. I&#39;m not supporting the murder of anyone. But how you can call Palestinians fighting their occupiers terrorists, while supporting Israelis running over kids with tanks as legitimate military action is beyond me.

    When France was occupied during WWII, the French Resistance used guerilla tactics against their Nazi occupiers. Did that make them terrorists too? It&#39;s all a matter of semantics - the viewpoint that just because you have armed forces, tanks as missiles to kill innocent people makes you an army rather than a terrorist organization is naive in the extreme.

    Arafat made mistakes, sure. He probably should have signed the Clinton-brokered peace deal. I&#39;m sure he wasn&#39;t whiter than white. But to believe that the Palestinians are all evil and the Israeli government are a bunch of nice guys acting legally is just plain blinkered. That viewpoint is based on US support for Israel, and perpetuated through racism against the Paletinians. Just because the Israelis look more like you, and sound more like you, doesn&#39;t mean that they are perfect.

    Read some of the comments from leaders around the world about Arafat in non-Us media outlets. The vast majority will acknowledge that he was a vital player in the peace process. Many leaders have spoken very positely about his contributions to the Palestinian people and the peace process. The only dissenting voices you will hear are from Israeli politicians and the current US administration. But I guess this is just another case of the US being always right, and the rest of the world being always wrong, huh?

    And, incidentally, those who resort to vulgar insults against those with differing points of view, only highlight their own ignorance and the weakness of their own arguments.

  6. #26
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    Mrcoops
    You should study up on a topic before blathering on about it. You should also try not to put words in peoples mouths such as "all x are evil, all y are good. No one here has said that.

    Now answer this question. Do you think the Palestinians simply want a state in the west bank and Gaza? If so then don&#39;t you find it strange that when that was offered to Arafat including a capital in Jerusalem he rejected it? Is it possible that the terrorist organizations in the territories mean what they say in their charters when they state their desire for a palestinian state from the river to the sea? What would you do if your neighbors were murdering your women and children on a daily basis? Is it wrong for the Israeli&#39;s to protect themselves from a people who have consistently rejected peace for war?

    Since you won&#39;t answer those questions I&#39;ll ask you this. If the shoe were on the other foot and the palestinians controlled the military do you think they would have followed the lead of their Arab cousins and liquidated and kicked out all of the Jews in their country. Do you think the palestinians would have broken with the tradition of their Arab cousins and actually let the Jews there live in peace?

  7. #27
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by chiefst2000[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 10:38 AM
    [b]
    Which one? I&#39;m always hungry for a good read. [/QUOTE]
    The Missing Peace : The Inside Story of the Fight for Middle East Peace
    by Dennis Ross
    [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374199736/qid=1100183494/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-5778756-8355326?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]Buy it on Amazon[/url]


    Ross was the negotiator for Clinton who basically engineered the entire Oslo process. The book goes through the background of the conflict from the establishment of the state through the breakdown of the Olso accords. It is an honest and critical look at both sides of the issue. [/b][/quote]
    I think Ross worked with Bush Sr. as well. I was just interested in which book since he&#39;s written a bunch of them. Thanks.
    I&#39;ve read a lot of Bernard Lewis&#39; books. He&#39;s Middle East historian from Princeton.

  8. #28
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    croops - good post. However, you have allowed yourself to be affected by the pro-arab propaganda that creates the impression that this conflict is solely between Israel and the Palestinians. When viewed through that prism, it is easy to see the Palestinians as a weak David versus the strong Israeli Goliath. However, that is not the case. The entire Arab world is engaged in a struggle against the very existence and yes, the very idea of Israel. Pan-arab armies invaded the young state of Israel on the very day of its creation, and have been trying to destroy it ever since. They captured the now disputed terroritories early on, which were part of the original Israel proper. They held those lands for about twenty years, during which time they attacked Israel on at least three separate occasions. So, the so-called "occupied" territories were occupied by arabs, and they STILL tried to eradicate Israel from the mapm even still. This is why Israelis do no believe them when they say they simply want their own state. Also, while Egypt and Transjordan held those lands, they butchered the Jews who lived there, and drove the other out. In fact, prior to the creation is Israel, arab countries routinely drove the jews into exile or killed them...jews who had been living in those areas for thousands of years.

    Groups like Hamas, the PLO, Hizbollah...they are all funded by many different countries, Egpyt, Syria, Iran Iraq (under Saddam), the Europea Union, among others. What is going on is a Pan-arab attempt to destroy Israel. Conventional means were tried, and they failed. An armed Israel, backed by US power, is not beatable conventionally. So, the arabs have no turned to the political arena. They are exploiting the very real plight of many palestinians in an effort to curry disfavor upon Israel. People forget that Israel is a tiny country that is surrounded on all sides by hundred of millions of determined arabs who want them dead. Their citizens are killed by terrorists, yet the UN only condemns Israel when Israel counters...which they admittedly do overzealously, at times. Jews are forbidded frmo living in most arab staes. This fact goes unmentioned in the mainstream media. Their murderous anti-semitism is almost not even discussed or judged. Palestinians are also forbidden from moving away. Think about that - if other countries truly cares about their plight, why wouldn&#39;t they let them live inside their borders?? The arab world needs the palestinians to curry favor. People have fallen for their PR game and do view the conflict as the poor, downtrodden Palestinians versus the brutal occupiers. It&#39;s bunk. I am not denying that real suffering goes on or that Israel doesn&#39;t share in some blame. But those people have all been living there and killing each other for thousands of years. You can reach back into tie and find that both groups can be considered "occupiers" or whatever. The UN has condemned Israel many times, yet NOT ONCE have they ever denounced palestinian terror attacks. That is simply not tolerable, and is likely why the UN has simply become increasing marginalized as a serious world voice.

    The key difference is that, IMO, all Israel wants is to be left alone. They let arabs live freely in their country, and are democratic. The arab countries forbid Jews and palestinians from living in there, brutally oppress women and religious minorities, and engage in terrorist activity. Israel is surrounded. Is is not just the palestinians who fight them. Nothing will change until the Palestinians learn to speak for themselves, acknowledge that Israel si going anywhere, repudiate terror, and learn to live with a two-state solution. Hama and others have long said they they care little about peace treaties, they will not stop until Israel is destroyed. That is a non-starter. Israel made many, many concessions which Arafat rejected. Sharon will likely not make as many, especially on the "right of return" but still, if the palestinian moderates can stamp out terrorism, a two-state solution is feasible.

  9. #29
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by mrcoops[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 11:08 AM
    [b] It must be wonderful to live in a world where everything is so black and white. Where Israeli = good guy and Palestinian = bad guy.

    Did I say that Arafat was perfect? No. Did I deny that Palestinians use guerilla tactics to fight their Israeli occupiers? No.

    What I did was acknowledge that the Palestinians are in a no-win situation. They have no country of their own, and live in extreme poverty under the jackboot of occupation of their much more powerful, much better funded, and much better armed neighbour.

    They use guerilla tactics because it&#39;s the only option available to them. Am I saying it&#39;s right? No. I&#39;m not supporting the murder of anyone. But how you can call Palestinians fighting their occupiers terrorists, while supporting Israelis running over kids with tanks as legitimate military action is beyond me.

    When France was occupied during WWII, the French Resistance used guerilla tactics against their Nazi occupiers. Did that make them terrorists too? It&#39;s all a matter of semantics - the viewpoint that just because you have armed forces, tanks as missiles to kill innocent people makes you an army rather than a terrorist organization is naive in the extreme.

    Arafat made mistakes, sure. He probably should have signed the Clinton-brokered peace deal. I&#39;m sure he wasn&#39;t whiter than white. But to believe that the Palestinians are all evil and the Israeli government are a bunch of nice guys acting legally is just plain blinkered. That viewpoint is based on US support for Israel, and perpetuated through racism against the Paletinians. Just because the Israelis look more like you, and sound more like you, doesn&#39;t mean that they are perfect.

    Read some of the comments from leaders around the world about Arafat in non-Us media outlets. The vast majority will acknowledge that he was a vital player in the peace process. Many leaders have spoken very positely about his contributions to the Palestinian people and the peace process. The only dissenting voices you will hear are from Israeli politicians and the current US administration. But I guess this is just another case of the US being always right, and the rest of the world being always wrong, huh?

    And, incidentally, those who resort to vulgar insults against those with differing points of view, only highlight their own ignorance and the weakness of their own arguments. [/b][/quote]
    NOTHING is black and white&#33; No one suggested that.
    I&#39;m still confused that Egypt and Palestine got together and attacked the little country of Israel and lost BIG. The Palestinians decide to run into the neighboring countries of their Islamic "brethren" and were refused. Now they have nowhere to go and are saying, "Yeah. Hi. Sorry we tried to eliminate you from the face of the earth, but... um... can we please have all our land back?" Of course this is an oversimplification, but seriously... it&#39;s on the money.

  10. #30
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    Clinton offered this AIDS-infected(radical weight loss, liver breaking down, low immune function, bouts of dementia, sarcomas all over his face-gee, what ever could that be?) loser the chance to lead his people and have a real country. He instead wanted to a. steal money and b. kill Jews.

    Have a great time in Hell.

  11. #31
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    May he Rot in hell for eternity

  12. #32
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    AMEN

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