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Thread: Wars, Natural Disasters, Decapitations, etc.

  1. #1
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    I haven't weighed-in yet on the Tsunami, but I've been thinking about it alot over the past few days

    I can't be the only one who notices this disaster is of biblical proportions?

    This natural disaster ... this massive death toll ... we're talkin biblical proportions here, folks

    This is [b]BOOK OF REVELATION[/b] type stuff ... and that sacres me cause I know to some small extent where this leads if it is indeed the fullfillment of prophecy, and I know what it means if this is indeed the beginning of the end

    [color=red]Wars and rumors of war

    The people will cry out for peace, but there is no peace

    Great and mighty natural disasters which result in staggering death tolls

    etc. etc. etc.[/color]

    Any of this sound familiar?

    These are all signs of the end times ... just the beginning stages, but signs that the end is near

    And if these are biblical signs, and I don't know that they are, it's only gonna get worse from here ... much worse ... catastrophically worse ... beyond comprehension worse ... and that's what I fear

    Something else struck me and I posted it a few months ago ... the decapitations

    We all witnessed the rash of decapitations in Iraq ... we all watched in horror ... but it goes even deeper than that

    More and more I am reading about Radical Islam in some nations persecuting Christians ... and one form of persecution is forced conversion to Islam ... they are literally kidnapping Christians and giving them the option of Conversion to Islam or decapitation ... and many are choosing conversion as to save themselves from such a horrible fate, and who can really blame them

    But then I remembered, having read Revelation many years ago, that there was one particular prophecy about the end times which struck me to the core ... when reading it I could hardly believe this could really happen ... it was something I could hardly digest cause it was so brutal ... it was this one prophecy I NEVER FORGOT ... so what was it that so caught my attention?

    [color=blue]John documented a vision he had been given of the end times ... and at one point he wrote about believers taken captive by the forces of the Anti-Christ ... and he wrote about them being decapitated for their belief in Christ ... and he wrote that they would first be given the option to denounce Christ, and that many would choose that option[/color]

    I don't know fellas, I really don't {nobody knows, and this can all be a coincidence I suppose}, but I got a BAD FEELING about this :unsure:

    Now I've seen many of these things in my lifetime, but never all at the same time and in such rapid succession ... it's like one thing after another ... wars, massive natural disasters, decapitations of believers, etc. etc. ... scary stuff, fellas

    BTW, I'll leave you with this ... here's a few charcteristics people will possess in the end times

    [color=red]2 Timothy 3:1-5

    But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of Godliness but denying its power.[/color]

  2. #2
    TomShane
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    Ham, what's going on now is nothing that hasn't happened almost perpetually throughout time, the only difference is that now, when these tragedies strike, they're broadcast on CNN twelve minutes later.

    Believe me, I'm of the general view that we're due for a little Noah-esque flood. I just paid $4.75 for a cup of coffee. However, I don't think this is going to be the time for it.

    P.S. Did you see that report of the comet that was supposed to hit the Earth in 2024? They said that now it won't, as it will shift in its trajectory. I wonder how far away from a planet a comet has to shift to not be a threat.

  3. #3
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    according to everything i've heard real christians shouldn't worry about the apocolypse - in fact they should welcome it - it would be the dawn of utopia.

  4. #4
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    TS you are absolutely right. Actually to take it one step further, despite the natural and manmade atrocities we see today, it pales in comparison to what took place centuries ago. Disease, devastation and genocide were almost the norm. Today we live longer, healthier lives. While today we have aids (which I believe we will have a cure for in my lifetime), pneumonia, smallpox, and all kinds of bronchial problems just a century ago were killers. Two of my children had pneumonia as babies. They were in and out of the hospital in days. A century ago, I probably would have lost them. My father has beaten prostate cancer, which a century ago would have killed him.
    I quote from the Beatles--its getting better all the time!!
    GJH what you mentioned in your post are terrible aberrations, not the norm.

  5. #5
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    [img]http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/patrick_procto.jpg[/img]

  6. #6
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    [quote][b]....what's going on now is nothing that hasn't happened almost perpetually throughout time, the only difference is that now, when these tragedies strike, they're broadcast on CNN twelve minutes later.
    [/b][/quote]

    Exactly. These events, while admittedly horrific in nature, are "nothing special" when it comes to the history of this planet, and the people living on it. Natural disasters such as this one happen every so often, it is simply a fact of living on a geologicly active planet. As for the horrors of the war in Iraq, they pale in comparison to the horrid attrocities practised in almost every single war that has preceeded it. A few beheadings are chump change when it comes to the slaughter man hs wreched on man throughout the ages.

    The biggest difference is in human perception. Mankind likes to think itself immune form the forces of nature (untrue) and too civillized to be so barbaric to each other (also untrue).

  7. #7
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    also there is a difference of scope - the earth has a greater population than ever before...

    more people means more dead when something like this tsunami happens -

  8. #8
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    WWII in the Pacific- the Japs decipated then canabalized American POW's with regularity...the war raged on endlessly with almost no site in end for five years....disease and plague looked permanent in places like the Philipines, etc.

  9. #9
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    Yeah well maybe you guys are right ... perhaps all of these things happening simultaniously are just one big coincidence, including the beheadings ... but then again, maybe it isn&#39;t <_<

    And to answer my friend Bitonti, I don&#39;t know any believers who are rooting for the end of the world ... not in their lifetime ... cause lots of things need to happen first, and none of them are good ... in fact, they&#39;ll make recent troubles seem like the good old days

    Now I&#39;m certain some are rooting for the apocolypse, but I ain&#39;t one them ... all I&#39;m rooting for is my Jets to win a SB :D ... the apocolypse can wait till I leave this earth

  10. #10
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    The truth is, cataclysmic events have occured since the beginning of time. When you have tectonic plates pushing up against and overriding each other, earthquakes occur.

    On August 26, 1883, the island volcano of Krakatoa in Indonesia had a devastating eruption. The eruption was one of the most catastrophic natural disasters in recorded history. Ashes from the eruption were carried as far away as New York City. People 3000 miles away heard the explosion. Volcanic dust blew into the upper atmosphere affecting incoming solar radiation and the earth&#39;s weather for several years.

    Large tsunami waves more than 120 feet high, killed more than 36,000 people in the coastal towns and villages along the Sunda Strait on Java and Sumatra islands. Tsunami waves were recorded or observed throughout the Indian Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, the American West Coast, South America, and even as far away as the English Channel.

    As for the human misery, well, it has been a lot worse. During WWII, people were killed on a scale never before seen on earth... Millions of Jews, civilians, soldiers, livestock, etc.... Europe was devastated.

    If that isn&#39;t enough for human misery, go back to the middle ages or before... Beheadings with heads left on poles, Iron Maidens, The Rack, The Tower Of London, etc.... Remember Vlad The Impaler??? aka Dracula??

    Yes this is a major event on the scale of destruction and human misery but, to say these are a sign of the end times is taking it a little too far....

    Things have been much worse in the past......

  11. #11
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    I read yesterday that the planet&#39;s population doubled between 1960 and 2000 pushing more people to live and farm areas that were previously unoccupied because of infertile land or bad location (hillsides and such).

    This is just the normal cycle of things. Here is a good read for you Ham:

    [quote][b]People may question their faith because of the random death and destruction caused by the tsunami, writes Kenneth Nguyen.

    There are doubtless thousands of stories arising out of Sunday&#39;s tsunami that are just like Satya Kumari&#39;s. A building worker living on the outskirts of India&#39;s former French enclave of Pondicherry, Kumari saw walls of water sweep his town, leaving behind a trail of wet corpses. That and grief, inconsolable grief.

    "Death came from the sea," he told reporters. "The waves just kept chasing us. It swept away all our huts. What did we do to deserve this?"

    It is a pertinent and challenging question for all those who believe in an interventionist higher being, an omnipotent God. What did the many thousands of victims throughout Asia and Africa do to deserve their fate? And what sort of God would sanction such apparently meaningless devastation?

    After all, scientists who leave God out of the equation have a simple explanation for the tsunami. A completely random tectonic fissure in the seabed created jet-speed ripples that ultimately unleashed their energy upon various shores.

    Advertisement
    AdvertisementFor those who believe in an interventionist God, however, there is little choice other than to come to that difficult-to-face conclusion: responsibility for the tsunami must be sheeted home to God.

    The Book of Job, for example, states: "God sends earthquakes and shakes the ground; he rocks the pillars that support the earth." Similarly, Psalms 104:32 states: "He looks at the earth, and it trembles; he touches the mountains, and they pour out smoke." From such Biblical material there is one inference. The destruction, the misery, the shrieks of pain: these occurred as part of His design.

    Indeed, on one interpretation of the Bible, the implications of the tsunami run even deeper: the victims were not simply chosen by God so they could be delivered to (a potentially heavenly) fate. They might have been chosen because an interventionist God actually regarded the Hindus of India and the Muslims of Indonesia and the Buddhists of Thailand as deserving of earthly suffering.

    Notably, Romans 8:28 posits that "God works for good with those who love him". (The truth of Romans 8:28 is said to be reflected in Acts 16:11-40, where God uses an earthquake to release Paul and Silas from jail in Philippi.) The flipside to this statement is, of course, that God has the power to punish those who do not love the Lord.

    The Romans-derived view that earthquakes are an earthly expression of divine displeasure has a long history. For example, in the aftermath of the 1755 Lisbon earthquakes, which killed an estimated 100,000 people, Catholic priests roamed the city, blaming heresy suspects for the disaster and hanging them on sight.

    Thankfully, the religious establishment, in its reaction to the Asian tsunami, has so far shown no similar signs of blaming the victim.

    In a statement to faithful gathered in St Peter&#39;s Square, Pope John Paul called for prayers for the victims of this immense tragedy and expressed solidarity with all those who are suffering. But the Pope&#39;s statement did not tackle the tricky question of God&#39;s role in the tsunami, nor did it address why the victims might have been chosen by God.

    Similarly, on this page yesterday, Tim Costello noted that he had "(no) easy way of dealing with the question of what is termed an &#39;act of God&#39; ".

    We should not necessarily expect all other Judeo-Christian leaders and commentators to be so reticent or tactful. In the aftermath to last year&#39;s Bam earthquakes, which killed more than 20,000 (mostly Muslim) Iranians, conservative American rabbi Daniel Lapin argued in the Chicago Jewish News that God dispatches natural disasters to punish those who have not embraced Judeo-Christian traditions. Noting that the US had been relatively untouched by natural disasters, Lapin wrote: "We ought to acknowledge that each day, every American derives enormous benefit from the faith of our founders and of their heirs." So goes the pungent logic of one who believes in an interventionist God.

    For agnostics, including me, the tsunami has highlighted just how unpalatable the idea of an interventionist God ultimately is. Of the thousands killed in the disaster, probably about one-third were children, too young to have a fully considered view on the existence of God. Did they deserve to die? And what of the many Christians and Jews, including charity workers, still missing? Do they, and their family members, deserve their suffering?

    The truth is, the random destruction wreaked upon our earth by one tectonic shift fits uneasily with prevailing visions of an all-powerful, philosophically benevolent God. Sunday&#39;s tsunami broke countless lives, hearts, communities. It would be little wonder if it ended up breaking many people&#39;s faith too.

    Kenneth Nguyen is a staff writer.
    [email]knguyen@theage.com.au[/email][/b][/quote]

    Source: [url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/Opinion/Is-God-to-blame-for-this/2004/12/29/1103996609356.html]Is God to blame for this?[/url]

  12. #12
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    Hick&#39;s right-there was a monsoon in the 1970s in bangladesh in which the death toll was comparable, if not worse. George Harrison organizaed a huge concert to help pay for the relief effort. Difference is that today it&#39;s broadcast into your living room 10 minutes after it happens. And no one had cameras or camcorders back then, and now there everywhere, even in the 3rd world.


    The Islamo-facist stuff is scary though. It&#39;s on point with a lot of the New Testament&#39;s warnings. But I don&#39;t know what God&#39;s plan is, and to pretend we have an idea is folly. When Nostradamus picks the 5th race at Aqueduct, I&#39;ll be impressed. Otherwise, who really knows.

  13. #13
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    going back further there is an article in this month&#39;s national geographic about an asteroid hit 3.5 billion years ago - it killed EVERYTHING that wasn&#39;t under the ground - created two tsunamis that went in opposite directions from impact and then met up on the other side of the world - and came back again

    all that water moving around was part of the transformation from a pangea (single giant land mass) to the continents we know today -

    ---

    GJ&H what about "the rapture" where true believers (and the saved dead) are snapped up from the Earth by God just prior to the end days?

    many many many Christians (especially american born-again christians) subscribe to this belief.

    [img]http://www.nccg.org/nccm/rapture.jpg[/img]

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    One can look at it as biblical prophecies, or you can look at it as just a part of life, I mean bad things are going to happen in life right?

    And as far as man made disasters whether it is wars or decapitations, that is just a result of disillusioned religious freaks whether it is Osama Bin Laden and company or George W Bush and company, and subconsiously, they have there religious scriptures in mind, which basically ask for these things, so maybed Bush and Bin Laden or just acting out on there religious scriptures with out even realizing it, it is a very scary world we live in, life will be better once religion is abolished from our planet, the sad thing is I have a feeling religious freaks will kill most of us when all is said and done....

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 30 2004, 11:52 AM
    [b] One can look at it as biblical prophecies, or you can look at it as just a part of life, I mean bad things are going to happen in life right?

    And as far as man made disasters whether it is wars or decapitations, that is just a result of disillusioned religious freaks whether it is Osama Bin Laden and company or George W Bush and company, and subconsiously, they have there religious scriptures in mind, which basically ask for these things, so maybed Bush and Bin Laden or just acting out on there religious scriptures with out even realizing it, it is a very scary world we live in, life will be better once religion is abolished from our planet, the sad thing is I have a feeling religious freaks will kill most of when all is said and done.... [/b][/quote]
    and then you have liberal scum like kerri, kennedy, clinton who talk loud and say nothing.

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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Dec 30 2004, 11:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Dec 30 2004, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 30 2004, 11:52 AM
    [b] One can look at it as biblical prophecies, or you can look at it as just a part of life, I mean bad things are going to happen in life right?

    And as far as man made disasters whether it is wars or decapitations, that is just a result of disillusioned religious freaks whether it is Osama Bin Laden and company or George W Bush and company, and subconsiously, they have there religious scriptures in mind, which basically ask for these things, so maybed Bush and Bin Laden or just acting out on there religious scriptures with out even realizing it, it is a very scary world we live in, life will be better once religion is abolished from our planet, the sad thing is I have a feeling religious freaks will kill most of when all is said and done.... [/b][/quote]
    and then you have liberal scum like kerri, kennedy, clinton who talk loud and say nothing. [/b][/quote]
    ?? What are you trying to say?

  17. #17
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    One question for Ham.....

    Why? Why would God either cause, or allow, this horrid event to happen?

    No sarcasm intended (seriously). I am looking for the opinion of a truly devoted man of faith, which I know you to be.

    I&#39;m looking to understand your perspective (beyond the "End Times" idea).

  18. #18
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles+Dec 30 2004, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (JetsMetsIsles &#064; Dec 30 2004, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Dec 30 2004, 11:55 AM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin-JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 30 2004, 11:52 AM
    [b] One can look at it as biblical prophecies, or you can look at it as just a part of life, I mean bad things are going to happen in life right?

    And as far as man made disasters whether it is wars or decapitations, that is just a result of disillusioned religious freaks whether it is Osama Bin Laden and company or George W Bush and company, and subconsiously, they have there religious scriptures in mind, which basically ask for these things, so maybed Bush and Bin Laden or just acting out on there religious scriptures with out even realizing it, it is a very scary world we live in, life will be better once religion is abolished from our planet, the sad thing is I have a feeling religious freaks will kill most of when all is said and done.... [/b][/quote]
    and then you have liberal scum like kerri, kennedy, clinton who talk loud and say nothing. [/b][/quote]
    ?? What are you trying to say? [/b][/quote]
    You refer to President Bush as a "disillusioned religious freak" yet all you see during election campaigns are libs/rats in churches for no other reason then to BS people into giving them their votes......the real dissillusioned freaks are liberals and the fools who believe that form of government and/or way of life has any viability today, people like kerri/kennedy/clinton and their followers- those with no backbone or conviction.

  19. #19
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Dec 30 2004, 12:13 PM
    [b] One question for Ham.....

    Why? Why would God either cause, or allow, this horrid event to happen? [/b][/quote]
    It isnt god, it is Satan, Or the Christians think god is doing this because those people dont accept Christ....

  20. #20
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    If you believe in salvation and heaven, the "bad things happening to good people" issue is solved, since "this" isn&#39;t all there is. If you do no believe in salvation, heaven or the afterlife, this issue is largely an insurmountable obstacle regarding faith in a loving God...or, at least, it is for me.


    Perhaps the finality of death, or the unexplainable suffering of people is so difficult to process or understand, that we (humans) invented the notion of salvation, heaven or the afterlife as merey an elaborate form of denial or from the need to simply create "understanding" where there is none since we cannot accept the fact that Nature is a cold and indifferent *****. Praying to God or thinking about heaven likely allows many, many believers to live their short lives in relative happiness, despite all of the suffering they see or experience - regardless of whether or not heaven exists. Perhaps such a quality fo life would be impossible to acheive without the influence of religion or if humans knew for certain that there is no afterlife or God or heaven waiting for them. Perhaps not. Who knows? The belief in heaven or a merciful God does actually help millions of people on a daily basis. Even if it is untrue, it has value in that sense.

    Live a life you love, use a God you trust and don&#39;t take it all too seriously....

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