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Thread: HE HATE ME

  1. #21
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 4 2005, 08:40 PM
    [b] you should consider pushing the date back only cause I would expect a few of the bigger names (Mike Williams) not to work out until pro-days. [/b][/quote]
    it is true that a later start would be beneficial - as information arrives the hype machine takes over - it happens every spring

  2. #22
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    hype machine means nothing accept to those who buy into it but Mike Williams looking terrible at an individual workout, Adrian McPherson throwing lights out at the combine or Richard Jeanty turning in a monster workout at Miami's pro-day will change the face of the top 60 selections.

    BTW: those thinking of attending the draft at the Garden best hold that thought for a while.

  3. #23
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 11:59 AM
    [b] hype machine means nothing accept to those who buy into it but Mike Williams looking terrible at an individual workout, Adrian McPherson throwing lights out at the combine or Richard Jeanty turning in a monster workout at Miami's pro-day will change the face of the top 60 selections.

    BTW: those thinking of attending the draft at the Garden best hold that thought for a while. [/b][/quote]
    Interesting

    Let's assume Mike Williams, following a one year layoff from football, does look terrible at his individual workout ... any chance he could slide all the way to 26, or would that be virtually impossible even if he has a poor showing?

  4. #24
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Feb 5 2005, 12:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Feb 5 2005, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 11:59 AM
    [b] hype machine means nothing accept to those who buy into it but Mike Williams looking terrible at an individual workout, Adrian McPherson throwing lights out at the combine or Richard Jeanty turning in a monster workout at Miami&#39;s pro-day will change the face of the top 60 selections.

    BTW: those thinking of attending the draft at the Garden best hold that thought for a while. [/b][/quote]
    Interesting

    Let&#39;s assume Mike Williams, following a one year layoff from football, does look terrible at his individual workout ... any chance he could slide all the way to 26, or would that be virtually impossible even if he has a poor showing? [/b][/quote]
    26...no- 15-20? possibly...plus the background check on Williams is equally as important.

    He is working with Chip Smith in Atlanta (a well known trainer) working out and I would expect a 4.53-4.56 40 @ 225 pounds when he runs.

  5. #25
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 12:18 PM
    [b] 26...no- 15-20? possibly [/b][/quote]
    Hummm, if he slid into that area I&#39;d have to make an attempt to trade up for him if I&#39;m Bradway

    I look at the draft trade value chart and we&#39;re probably talkin about the 26th overall pick and our 3rd Rounder

    That&#39;s a deal I would have to make for Mike Williams ... or at least offer

  6. #26
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Feb 5 2005, 12:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Feb 5 2005, 12:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 12:18 PM
    [b] 26...no- 15-20? possibly [/b][/quote]
    Hummm, if he slid into that area I&#39;d have to make an attempt to trade up for him if I&#39;m Bradway

    I look at the draft trade value chart and we&#39;re probably talkin about the 26th overall pick and our 3rd Rounder

    That&#39;s a deal I would have to make for Mike Williams ... or at least offer [/b][/quote]
    Williams is the ultimate "boom or bust"player- high upside but huge dowside as well.

  7. #27
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Feb 5 2005, 12:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Feb 5 2005, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham@Feb 5 2005, 12:31 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 12:18 PM
    [b] 26...no- 15-20? possibly [/b][/quote]
    Hummm, if he slid into that area I&#39;d have to make an attempt to trade up for him if I&#39;m Bradway

    I look at the draft trade value chart and we&#39;re probably talkin about the 26th overall pick and our 3rd Rounder

    That&#39;s a deal I would have to make for Mike Williams ... or at least offer [/b][/quote]
    Williams is the ultimate "boom or bust"player- high upside but huge dowside as well. [/b][/quote]
    CB, that man was one of the most dominant college WR&#39;s I ever saw ... right there with Michael Irvin when he was at Miami {who I absolutely loved} ... and like Irvin, Williams has the size to transfer that dominance to the NFL

    JMO ... I could be wrong

  8. #28
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Feb 4 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham &#064; Feb 4 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Feb 4 2005, 07:12 PM
    [b] [quote]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham@Feb 4 2005, 05:42 PM
    [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 4 2005, 04:36 PM
    [b] I&#39;ve got to keep a little more low key plus I&#39;m crazy busy so...what&#39;s the date anyway??

    Need a mailing address GH so PM me with it. [/b][/quote]
    CB, not sure about the date yet ... we&#39;re sort of leaning towards waiting till after the combines

    What&#39;s the date of the combines?

    We&#39;ll probably start the following week, so we have a full week to digest that info

    And if anyone opts out I&#39;ll PM you immediately to give you all the details ... you are the first alternate [/b][/quote]
    Combine is 2/23-3/1 [/b][/quote]
    Thanks CB ... March 1 is a tuesday so I&#39;m thinking we&#39;ll kickoff on monday March 7

    Again, you are the first alternate ... I only wish you would have seen the damn thread in advance :( [/b][/quote]
    the competition Irvin faced on a daily (Blades, etc) and gameday (Deon Sanders) basis was better year-after-year. Irvin was a much better pute WO.

    When you are 235-pounds playing against 180-pound DB&#39;s it is not very tough to be dominant. Williams is good but I think a tad overrated. I also think he will ultimately grow into a TE as it is very tough for a 21 year old kid who is natural large to keep weight/size off as opposed to the opposite.

    Keyshawn was what, 219-217 when the Jets took him? Parcells came in a told him to get below 210 or he&#39;d make him a TE.

    It will be very tough to match-up in man-to-man against Williams at the next level but he could have problems against a zone system.

  9. #29
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 01:08 PM
    [b] the competition Irvin faced on a daily (Blades, etc) and gameday (Deon Sanders) basis was better year-after-year. Irvin was a much better pute WO.

    When you are 235-pounds playing against 180-pound DB&#39;s it is not very tough to be dominant. Williams is good but I think a tad overrated. I also think he will ultimately grow into a TE as it is very tough for a 21 year old kid who is natural large to keep weight/size off as opposed to the opposite.

    Keyshawn was what, 219-217 when the Jets took him? Parcells came in a told him to get below 210 or he&#39;d make him a TE.

    It will be very tough to match-up in man-to-man against Williams at the next level but he could have problems against a zone system. [/b][/quote]
    Here&#39;s how I&#39;ll measure Mike Williams

    He has to be a dominant player in the NFL or he&#39;s not the type of player I thought he would be

    Barring injury, he has to have Michael Irvin&#39;s career ... has to be that type of force ... if he turns out to be Keyshawn Johnson, in my mind his career will have been a disappointment

    And in the event he is moved to TE, he has to be Shannon Sharpe ... has to be that type of force ... or again, in my mind his career will have been a disappointment

    I&#39;m not even saying he has to be Randy Moss or Kellen Winslow Sr ... but he has to be Michael Irvin or Shannon Sharpe ... anything less is not good enough

    Cause if I traded up for this player {and I would}, it would be based on the assumption that he is going to be a dominant player

    That&#39;s honestly how I feel ... GOOD is not GOOD ENOUGH ... IMO Mike Williams is a disappointment if he&#39;s not a dominant player

  10. #30
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Feb 5 2005, 01:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Feb 5 2005, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 01:08 PM
    [b] the competition Irvin faced on a daily (Blades, etc) and gameday (Deon Sanders) basis was better year-after-year. Irvin was a much better pute WO.

    When you are 235-pounds playing against 180-pound DB&#39;s it is not very tough to be dominant. Williams is good but I think a tad overrated. I also think he will ultimately grow into a TE as it is very tough for a 21 year old kid who is natural large to keep weight/size off as opposed to the opposite.

    Keyshawn was what, 219-217 when the Jets took him? Parcells came in a told him to get below 210 or he&#39;d make him a TE.

    It will be very tough to match-up in man-to-man against Williams at the next level but he could have problems against a zone system. [/b][/quote]
    Here&#39;s how I&#39;ll measure Mike Williams

    He has to be a dominant player in the NFL or he&#39;s not the type of player I thought he would be

    Barring injury, he has to have Michael Irvin&#39;s career ... has to be that type of force ... if he turns out to be Keyshawn Johnson, in my mind his career will have been a disappointment

    And in the event he is moved to TE, he has to be Shannon Sharpe ... has to be that type of force ... or again, in my mind his career will have been a disappointment

    I&#39;m not even saying he has to be Randy Moss or Kellen Winslow Sr ... but he has to be Michael Irvin or Shannon Sharpe ... anything less is not good enough

    Cause if I traded up for this player {and I would}, it would be based on the assumption that he is going to be a dominant player

    That&#39;s honestly how I feel ... GOOD is not GOOD ENOUGH ... IMO Mike Williams is a disappointment if he&#39;s not a dominant player [/b][/quote]
    Tough measuring stick for a guy who played two years of college ball then sat on the sidelines for one season.

  11. #31
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 5 2005, 01:50 PM
    [b] Tough measuring stick for a guy who played two years of college ball then sat on the sidelines for one season. [/b][/quote]
    I&#39;m tough to please B)

    But seriously, when Irvin came out I had a friend who was a diehard Cowboys fan who rarely watched college football

    When the Cowboys tabbed him in the 1st RD my friend called to ask my opinion cause he knew I watched alot of college football, and in those days the Canes were my favorite college team {and they were always on tv} ... so I told him that even with the 11th overall pick Irvin was a heist, that he should have been long gone

    My feeling at the time was that Irvin would be a dominant player in the NFL

    As I said earlier, he was one of the most dominant college WR&#39;s I had ever seen and with his size I saw no reason why he shouldn&#39;t transfer that dominance to the next level

    I understand your point about competition, but USC is not exactly William & Mary so I sort of feel the same way about MW ... he&#39;s one of the most dominant college WR&#39;s I have seen since Michael Irvin, and with his size I see no reason why he shouldn&#39;t transfer that dominance to the next level

    Again, I could be wrong ... I&#39;m not privy to all of the data ... mostly I go by what I see

    PS. Dumb@&#036;&#036; Jets took Dave Cadigan with the 8th overall pick that year :(

  12. #32
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    he&#39;s not ever going to be as dominant as Irvin b/c MW lacks that extra gear -

    that being said i would take MW over Braylon Edwards because he&#39;s got better hands and he&#39;s going to be better over the middle and in traffic. Edwards is a better pure WR prospect but Williams is more likely fill the role of a #1 WR who catches balls in traffic and fade routes. This role of tall sure handed over-the-middle guy has been filled by TE throughout the years as well - Williams is a bit of a tweener in that sense but his skillset is unique... he is not that risky a pick - he might not live up to his draft status but he won&#39;t bust... at the very least he will be a reliable mid range receiver that probably won&#39;t break the big deep play - but still very useful.

    one thing i want to say - Keyshawn at #1 was overkill but the man caught every junk ball Vinny threw for his rookie contract, then he moved on to get his ring... not exactly shabby results - honestly on that team he filled a role they could not have lived without - the guy who will go over the middle, take a shot but hang on to move the chains... Key had several grabs like that during the Bucs playoff run and he won a ring - so he&#39;s not really a true bust IMO.

    also alot depends upon the fit between player and program - a guy like Edwards would be a smarter pick for a dome team then a guy like Williams - MW would fit in perfectly with the JETS - he would fill a role more like Keyshawn... or Shockey, Heap, Gonzolez - then a role like Randy Moss or Rodney Harrison

  13. #33
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    LMAO at how this thread went from Howard Dean hating Rs to whether MW would be a dominant receiver in the NFL and a good fit for the NYJ.

    :lol:

  14. #34
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    [quote][i]Originally posted by Jets&Canes[/i]@Feb 6 2005, 11:23 AM
    [b] LMAO at how this thread went from Howard Dean hating Rs to whether MW would be a dominant receiver in the NFL and a good fit for the NYJ.

    :lol: [/b][/quote]
    we wage partisan warfare over here but the truth of the matter is I would take Bush as President for life if it meant the JETS won a single damn super bowl. Honestly Billy Graham could be declared theocratic king of America tomorrow and somehow if the JETS were guarunteed to win the super bowl before I died - i would be the Hap-hap-happiest damn theocratic citizen in the Bible States of America&#33;&#33; make no mistake where the priorities are B)

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