Enjoy an Ads-Free Jets Insider - Become a Jets Insider VIP!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: OT: What the hell is wrong with hockey?

  1. #1
    All League
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    Growing up my favorite sports were Football and Hockey. Being a Jets and Rangers fan I have been well versed in heart break. The rangers released me from that pain thatnks to Messier in 1994. Well I won't get into the football aspect of the equation.

    I miss watching hockey!

    I miss watching the west coast games late at night. I miss the highlights, the fights the Canadians. I am a player kind of guy, I always side with the players. s**t with out them there is no games. Why should the owners get rich on the labor of talented players. I feel this way in all sports. Of the big four sports hockey players are paid the least. I think the average salary is the lowest, I may be wrong.

    Is it greed on the part of the players or the owners?

    Espn had a great model for the direction that hockey should go.

    This has lasted long enough I think the owners and the league office are to blame and are pulling a 1900's Charlie Commisky type power play.

    I need to watch the Rangers lose during the Jets offseason. Enough is enough!

  2. #2
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4,430
    Post Thanks / Like
    The NHL has been a public relations nightmare since the lockout going into the season after the Rangers won the Cup. The league lost a lot of momentum by failing to play up the following season (94-95). That was the owners' fault.

    This situation is the fault of the players IMO. Players were stubbornly refusing to accept a salary cap, and then when all was lost, they caved.

  3. #3
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,142
    Post Thanks / Like
    Canes points are all good...

    Let me add this, as we discussed in the hockey forum: The NHL hired a commish that had never, ever had attended an NHL game and may've never been to a hockey game, at any level, prior to getting his NHL gig. My guess is Bettman has never even LIKED hockey.

    To make a long story short--He ran the NHL as if it was the NBA and he flopped--He's a joke; and he turned a great league into an unwatchable joke--over expansion; silly rule changes; dumb franchise relocation, ect.

    His thing was to always catch up with the NBA. With the NBA now almost as irrelevant as the NHL (NBA All-Star game on TNT)....He got his wish, almost :blink:

  4. #4
    All League
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Holmdel
    Posts
    2,851
    Post Thanks / Like
    NHL had the ideal situation the biggest market team in the Rangers won the Cup in 1994 to build on- the fantasy of smaller markets and down South were going to accept and embrace hockey was great mistake.
    The owners were lulled into the lure of expansion fees money without thinking and planning if these cities could actually support a team.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    461
    Post Thanks / Like
    What is wrong with Hockey? 1 Word: GREED!

  6. #6
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4,430
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by Riggins44@Feb 19 2005, 07:14 PM
    Canes points are all good...

    Let me add this, as we discussed in the hockey forum: The NHL hired a commish that had never, ever had attended an NHL game and may've never been to a hockey game, at any level, prior to getting his NHL gig. My guess is Bettman has never even LIKED hockey.

    To make a long story short--He ran the NHL as if it was the NBA and he flopped--He's a joke; and he turned a great league into an unwatchable joke--over expansion; silly rule changes; dumb franchise relocation, ect.

    His thing was to always catch up with the NBA. With the NBA now almost as irrelevant as the NHL (NBA All-Star game on TNT)....He got his wish, almost :blink:
    All good points on this thread.

    I would like to see the NHL scale back to 12-14 teams, let the quality of play increase and eff the smaller, southern markets.

  7. #7
    All League
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    Damn I didn't even realize that hockey had a thread on the site. My bad for placing it in the Footbal thread.

  8. #8
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4,430
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by Al Toon 77@Feb 19 2005, 07:57 PM
    Damn I didn't even realize that hockey had a thread on the site. My bad for placing it in the Footbal thread.
    Yeah, I got lost after this thread was moved. LOL

  9. #9
    Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Long Island & NYC
    Posts
    367
    Post Thanks / Like
    It seems to me that at least 20 owners would go to $45M to salvage a season. Unfortunately, Bettman and Daly are getting their financial advice from the Black Hawks--which is like going to Carrot Top to have atomic fission explained to you.

  10. #10
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    9,673
    Post Thanks / Like
    Cutting back teams would be good, but its just not practical. The NHL desperately needs a good TV contract and 14 teams which would probably be spread through Canada and the northeast USA will have problems for ESPN to even carry it. Hockeys problems run far deeper than this lockout and cancellation. All sports have grown in the last 20 years or so in some way. The NHL has not, but they want to create the perception they have. The ownership group wants to compare themselves to the NBA and NFL. The players want to use the NBA and MLB as a salary comparison. Except they are not much further up the sports chain than Arena Football and from a national standpoint they may be below it.

    The season drags on too long and most people still think of the NHL as the league where all of 4 teams dont make the playoffs in each conference. The game isn't easy to follow and due to the speed of the game there isn't much time for the TV guys to cover what is going on and how everything works.

    Im surprised they turned down a 45 million cap because now it paints the owners in as bad a light as the players. 45 million isnt that bad and should keep the league competitive since that is probably close to the salary range most of the good clubs have now. Limiting the spending of teams like the Rangers will allow teams at 32 million to still compete without a drastic increase in payroll from their current levels. But there is alot that has to change for the NHL to actually be a viable sport.

  11. #11
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,530
    Post Thanks / Like
    Jason-

    It may not be practical. But a 24-team NHL(goodbye-Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, Carolina, Anaheim and Florida-and may be move one or 2 north) would be more competitive. And if they're still chasing the " We want to be a anational sport" BS, that ship has sailed; be happy with the rabid if limited support you have. Plus, we'd see less clutch&grab and more actual hockey(along with a few simple rule changes) as the talent pool gets strengthened.

    Bettman has spent so much time on trying to get new fans who will never buy into hockey that he forgot the fans who made this sprot great in the 1st place.

  12. #12
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    9,673
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bugg, Id agree that cutting out 6 teams would be ok. What I read above was cutting out more than half the league to 12 or 14 teams! Thats crazy. 24 teams would still get picked up by ESPN or Fox Sports. 12 would have no chance. Im not sure how they deal with contracting the teams and how the cost is absorbed. The slight value for a hockey owner is that they should still be able to make money on a franchise sale, so if the league was to say that it was time for a team to pack it up I wonder what would have to be spent to do it.

    If the NHL cut back its teams how many playoff teams would you want to see or would you rather see a shortened season or both? I think for the NHL and even for the NBA that 8 teams in each conf. is too many. The NBA has the advantage of being able to play more back to backs to shorten the playoffs though. Prior to expansion it was way too many for hockey and renders the regular season moot. 16 out of 24 teams making it would drive me crazy.

  13. #13
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,256
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by Bugg@Feb 20 2005, 09:47 AM
    Jason-

    It may not be practical. But a 24-team NHL(goodbye-Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, Carolina, Anaheim and Florida-and may be move one or 2 north) would be more competitive. And if they're still chasing the " We want to be a anational sport" BS, that ship has sailed; be happy with the rabid if limited support you have. Plus, we'd see less clutch&grab and more actual hockey(along with a few simple rule changes) as the talent pool gets strengthened.

    Bettman has spent so much time on trying to get new fans who will never buy into hockey that he forgot the fans who made this sprot great in the 1st place.
    Bettman didnt understand hockey fans when he took over this gig. He didnt understand that hockey fans are like a small cult. It has its diehard fans who watch every single game or it has those who are completely disinterested in the sport and dont watch at all. Hockey does not have a big casual/middle of the road fan base. Its not like the NFL or MLB where casual fans will watch the playoffs or super bowl. Thats why it will NEVER be able to compete with the 3 other major sports.

    Bettman didnt understand this and tried his hardest to attract attention in southern markets.

    It was a complete disaster.

  14. #14
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4,430
    Post Thanks / Like
    Okay, maybe saying 12-14 teams was too extreme. But my point is like buzz said, less teams=higher level of play. If it's 20 or 24 teams, whatever. But like the post above said, its really more of a cult fandom than a national thing.

    This latest episode in the public relations nightmare is on the owners and bettman.

    Apparently, he brought a meeting together thinking there would be agreement on a 45M cap, but then the owners balked and held at 42.5. It's a disaster for the NHL.

    March madness, anyone?

  15. #15
    All League
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    3,581
    Post Thanks / Like
    HOCKEY SUCKS!

  16. #16
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    8,682
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by JetMan55@Feb 21 2005, 01:22 PM
    HOCKEY SUCKS!
    Another brilliant post from Jetman55

  17. #17
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    2,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by The Gun Of Bavaria+Feb 21 2005, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Gun Of Bavaria @ Feb 21 2005, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JetMan55@Feb 21 2005, 01:22 PM
    HOCKEY SUCKS&#33;
    Another brilliant post from Jetman55 [/b][/quote]
    Would you expect anything less from a Mets fan ?

    Here is the problem with Hockey.

    No Gretzky
    No Lemieux.

    Betman when he took over wanted to follow the model set by David Stern. Stern of course had Bird, Magic and Jordan. Betman had Lemieux and Gretzky. Once they retired Betman had no one to fall back on. Stern is starting to feel that now without Jordan.

    Instead of putting teams in places like Tampa, Phoenix, Columbus, and Nashville why didn&#39;t he concentrate on what he had. The fact that there was no team in Minnesota for what 5 years after the North Stars left for Dallas is unbelivable. He lets Quebec move to Colorado and Winnipeg to Phoenix ?

    Why does hockey need 2 teams in Califormia ?
    Why does hockey need 2 teams in Florida ?

    Bettman has done a horrific job with hockey.

  18. #18
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    8,587
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by shawn306+Feb 22 2005, 03:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shawn306 @ Feb 22 2005, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    Originally posted by The Gun Of Bavaria@Feb 21 2005, 10:42 PM
    <!--QuoteBegin-JetMan55
    @Feb 21 2005, 01:22 PM
    HOCKEY SUCKS&#33;

    Another brilliant post from Jetman55
    Would you expect anything less from a Mets fan ?

    Here is the problem with Hockey.

    No Gretzky
    No Lemieux.

    Betman when he took over wanted to follow the model set by David Stern. Stern of course had Bird, Magic and Jordan. Betman had Lemieux and Gretzky. Once they retired Betman had no one to fall back on. Stern is starting to feel that now without Jordan.

    Instead of putting teams in places like Tampa, Phoenix, Columbus, and Nashville why didn&#39;t he concentrate on what he had. The fact that there was no team in Minnesota for what 5 years after the North Stars left for Dallas is unbelivable. He lets Quebec move to Colorado and Winnipeg to Phoenix ?

    Why does hockey need 2 teams in Califormia ?
    Why does hockey need 2 teams in Florida ?

    Bettman has done a horrific job with hockey. [/b][/quote]
    Shawn;

    You hit the problem squarly on the head. Over-expansion, and a failure to build up more stars in the game. The NBA, Bettman&#39;s former league, is trying to build up Lebron, and before that it was Kobe, etc. The NBA always tries to have several stars out there in the public eye. What does the NHL do? They keep on expanding.

    Does not work. I would love a cutback to 20-24 teams. No more. It would allow more real hockey players to be around, without the fringe guys who are either fighters, or barely qualified. Example. Matthew Barnaby. Decent chap, but not a great or even a very good player. He scores a few, but is rwally an agitator on the ice. Less guys like him, and more skill players, with less teams, make the NHL watchable again.

    It&#39;s a tough chore. I&#39;m not confident Bettman is the guy to lead the NHL down this path, one they must travel in order to succeed.

  19. #19
    All League
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Holmdel
    Posts
    2,851
    Post Thanks / Like
    Originally posted by mbn007+Mar 1 2005, 07:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mbn007 @ Mar 1 2005, 07:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    Originally posted by shawn306@Feb 22 2005, 03:57 PM
    Originally posted by The Gun Of Bavaria@Feb 21 2005, 10:42 PM
    <!--QuoteBegin-JetMan55
    @Feb 21 2005, 01:22 PM
    HOCKEY SUCKS&#33;

    Another brilliant post from Jetman55

    Would you expect anything less from a Mets fan ?

    Here is the problem with Hockey.

    No Gretzky
    No Lemieux.

    Betman when he took over wanted to follow the model set by David Stern. Stern of course had Bird, Magic and Jordan. Betman had Lemieux and Gretzky. Once they retired Betman had no one to fall back on. Stern is starting to feel that now without Jordan.

    Instead of putting teams in places like Tampa, Phoenix, Columbus, and Nashville why didn&#39;t he concentrate on what he had. The fact that there was no team in Minnesota for what 5 years after the North Stars left for Dallas is unbelivable. He lets Quebec move to Colorado and Winnipeg to Phoenix ?

    Why does hockey need 2 teams in Califormia ?
    Why does hockey need 2 teams in Florida ?

    Bettman has done a horrific job with hockey.
    Shawn;

    You hit the problem squarly on the head. Over-expansion, and a failure to build up more stars in the game. The NBA, Bettman&#39;s former league, is trying to build up Lebron, and before that it was Kobe, etc. The NBA always tries to have several stars out there in the public eye. What does the NHL do? They keep on expanding.

    Does not work. I would love a cutback to 20-24 teams. No more. It would allow more real hockey players to be around, without the fringe guys who are either fighters, or barely qualified. Example. Matthew Barnaby. Decent chap, but not a great or even a very good player. He scores a few, but is rwally an agitator on the ice. Less guys like him, and more skill players, with less teams, make the NHL watchable again.

    It&#39;s a tough chore. I&#39;m not confident Bettman is the guy to lead the NHL down this path, one they must travel in order to succeed. [/b][/quote]
    A kid that if there is ever going to be a draft Crosby is supposed to be like the next great player to come out in NHL- they need to jump on him to build up and restore some of the image and respect they have lost.
    Much as I think NHL needs to contract -that is really going to be a hard sell for the players to accept beside all the other differences with the owners.

  20. #20
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    8,587
    Post Thanks / Like
    Faba;

    In other words, there could be the owner&#39;s trying scabs.

    Or there could be the players formiing their own leagues.

    Neither solution will work, and will only destroy the game in the long term.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us